Post: #1

I'm not asking this for the sake of my own insecurity....

But over the years I've stayed with friends of mine various times, sometimes shortly and sometimes even for a period of time or repeatedly. I saw some guy's wife's pic just now on Facebook, and it made me recall all the thoughts I had about nailing her when I stayed with them...

It's a natural enough desire, I guess, but I must admit I had to fight the urge in the back of my mind to satisfy that craving. This was a man opening his home and everything he owned to me - treating me like a part of the family. I doubt many would consider me an immoral person, and there are few things I wouldn't do for that guy, but the desire was still there.

Thinking back, I can remember many other times I had these thoughts. Some of these guys were extremely good friends of mine, and there's no way I would have sacrificed their trust in my right state of mind; however, I guess if you gave me enough alcohol, who knows what could happen.

And like I'm sure many of you players have experienced, there were definitely those scenarios where I could tell part of her (or even all of her, with the worst ones) was itching for it to underneath the civilized facade. Of course that makes the temptation even worse.

I could even break out a story or two where the line was at least slightly crossed, by either her or me or both, in a drunken daze that I still regret. Not with people I was staying with but still. Alcohol's a helluva drug; we all have our mistakes.

Here's a worst case scenario. Back home, two of the most stone cold natural players I knew from where I'm from decided to become roommates. One started letting his chick hang around or moved her in or something, and then one day he comes home to find the other banging his old lady on the couch. Turned out they'd been at it for a while. He moved out in a fury, the friendship was ruined, and the buddy has been wifed up with his chick ever since. How the hell he'll ever forget how he swooped her, I couldn't say.

I guess you could say he did his old roommate a favor by taking that sloot off his hands haha

Now, of course, you don't want to be with a woman who you can't trust - if you can't control your girl at least this much, you definitely should not be living with or marrying her. But if our society were more what you guys here might call truly "red pill," married women (or unmarried, for that matter) wouldn't be left alone with other men for long periods of time to begin with, would they?

So, at the risk of becoming too jealous and controlling, should keeping your woman in check include not creating unnecessary temptations by allowing another man to stay under your roof? You could say just not when you aren't present, but what are you going to do, ask him to bail every time you step out the door? No man should be too insecure or jealous, but where do you draw the line of giving nature too much room to run its course?

I'm not wifing up anytime soon. This is just an exercise in thought here - seriously curious about what you guys think.

I am also the guy who opens my door wide to both strangers and friends, letting them come make themselves at home in my place and have my girl cooking for us all, etc - if a buddy in a bad spot needed a place to crash for a month or two while he got on his feet, I'd be the first to offer it, and I'd hate to ever throw that piece of myself out completely.

So I guess it's one of those things were certain rules about what is appropriate or inappropriate have to be established.

I mean, if you have any control over the situation at all and your old lady has a level head, she herself would remove herself from the situation if it started getting "wierd." So perhaps it's about accepting the attraction may occurr but gaming her enough to keep her in check. And of course choosing friends wisely as well (though as the alcohol example suggest, that's not foolproof either).

But on the other hand, why allow temptation room to breath to begin with? It seems strict to overcontrol, but a realistic man has to take reality on reality's terms too, and on a certain level, would you not be doing everyone a favor by not compromising their integrity with the threat of natural human urges? Game is powerful stuff, but so are hormones.

Discuss.

Post: #2

I'd think it's kind of like having a teenage daughter.

Her boyfriend might come over for dinner, but it's probably a good idea for him to get a good sense that you're not the kind of father who'd put up with any funny business.

Post: #3

^ Good point.

I come from the sticks and I've seen old timer married redneck men and biker types pull off that vibe quite well in their homes without bringing themselves down or making it awkward.

And to add to that, I guess on a certain level, long-term male respect includes a healthy fear of each other as well.

Of course, as civilized men we can go a lot further to control our most carnal urges, as I do even when no fear is there. But boundaries are most certainly easier to remember if you know a guy could possibly kick your ass or try, or is willing to pick up a bat or a gun to send a message as needed.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #4

^^Wouldn't this approach still coming across as insecure or jealous, given that this guest would be a grown man? Keeping the other person at a certain 'arms length' would be an alternative, but would be difficult to keep up in the long run, don't you reckon?

Edit: BB answered the question

Post: #5

(12-23-2015 04:49 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I mean, if you have any control over the situation at all and your old lady has a level head, she herself would remove herself from the situation if it started getting "wierd." So perhaps it's about accepting the attraction may occurr but gaming her enough to keep her in check. And of course choosing friends wisely as well (though as the alcohol example suggest, that's not foolproof either).

I think you pretty much nailed it right there. In a way you don't want to be too controlling and jealous like you already said. Besides that I think there's too many variables to actually be in control of when a situation like that occurs.

Sometimes we just need some trust and faith (good) friends/girlfriend etc. will not just fuck us over.

Post: #6

^ Yes, that's true.

You can't ever control everything - sometimes shit just happens, and that's one major reason why having the resilience to make the right decision once you do know and cut your ties is one of the most powerful characteristics a man can possess.

Fortunately, I do believe most people try to do the appropriate thing most of the time.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #7

I remember BB King, the blues player, had a song where he said, "I don't want another man hanging around my house when I'm not at home."

I agree. If a man is married, I think it's a mistake to invite another adult male to move in for a long period of time. Short visits are OK, of course.

Likewise, no married woman would want another attractive women moving in as a maid or servant.

Even if there is no overt sexuality floating around, there will always be some air of sexual tension.

Post: #8

^ That makes me think of something.

I've talked with a lot of bachelors who, like me, have spent some years traveling around visiting friends or ended up in a bad situation where he needed a place to crash and had a buddy say the old lady wasn't having it. "Sorry, bro, but out you go."

I wonder how often the real story in these scenarios is the guy doesn't want another swinging dick in his home and sees blaming it on the old lady as the easiest, least demeaning out?

I mean, when it comes down to it a grown man should be able to afford his own place or get a hotel. That hasn't always been the case for me, but it's the truth regardless.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #9

(12-23-2015 04:49 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I could even break out a story or two where the line was at least slightly crossed, by either her or me or both, in a drunken daze that I still regret. Not with people I was staying with but still. Alcohol's a helluva drug; we all have our mistakes.

Could you break out those stories please?

Post: #10

^ haha In a lot of ways I'm an open book more than most guys, but there are a few stories I'd rather keep to myself...and/or forget.

Maybe a thread for that sort of blunder/regret would be appropriate though. I'm sure I'm not the only one with those types of experiences...

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #11

Stating the obvious, the concern of inviting not only men, but men who are consummate players into the immediate area of a woman (your woman) who's nature as we all know is fickle in the best of them touches on both the civilized respect between these men and the more primal necessity of defending what's yours (BB may need to proofread that run on).

This question is really out of my depth so I'm just positing here but I'd bet the older and more BB King-like a guy gets, the more cautious he'd be, having learned a lot of things the hard way.

I spent an hour or so pointing out the potential negatives to a friend who's trying to fuck a co-worker. He's not a dumbass exactly, but he's thinking with his dick.

Similarly, I would probably let my buddies spend the night...and maybe have a memory to sing the blues to later on.

Post: #12

Modern day Feminism has thrust the words "controlling" and "jealous" onto men. When a woman accuses a man of being jealous what she's really saying is, "I want to be free to do my own thing without being called on it."

Trust is another concept introduced by feminism in the terms of a relationship. Controlling, Jealous, Trust....all used by feminism to promote the agenda they should be free to do their own thing.

Real trust is built over time and it's a slow process. That aside, human beings are prone to giving in to temptation, whether alcohol is involved or not. The only way to ensure your girlfriend/wife doesn't cheat is to remove the opportunities, because she's only human. That's how you control it. Not through game, or banging her really good. Even the best of men in those areas get cheated on if they give their woman enough rope.

As far as welcoming another man into your home for a long period of time, it's probably not a good idea. In the past, I've had roomates girlfriends come on to me several times. I once let my best friend stay with my girlfriend and I but after a week she told me to send him packing because she was feeling uncomfortable. Hmmm..

For a short period of time like a few days and especially if you are going to be around and can control the environment then it's probably ok.

Post: #13

(12-23-2015 05:49 AM)Onto Wrote:  Modern day Feminism has thrust the words "controlling" and "jealous" onto men.

You're right and I thought someone might bring this up.

On the other hand, we've all witnessed how effective being too possessive of your woman can be - in many cases it has the opposite effect and repulses her, causing you to lose your grip on the situation. This needy type of control and jealousy is the type of I was referring to in the post. You can sometimes give away your power by trying to eradicate every risk.

That being said, yes, there is definitely room for establishing control in your home and relationship that just comes down to not standing for any bullshit. I think it largely depends on the emotional source of your antics and in what manner you lay down the law.

(12-23-2015 05:49 AM)Onto Wrote:  I once let my best friend stay with my girlfriend and I but after a week she told me to send him packing because she was feeling uncomfortable. Hmmm..

It's easy to pass women off as nags when they do this shit, but on the other hand, they are more social creatures. I've always been the guy to say a man is weak to bend to his woman like this, but thinking about more in-depth, maybe they have a better innate understanding of this dynamic than most men do and that's one of the reasons they start raising objections early on.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #14

^Fair enough.

Me and my ex used to live in the central part of a city . So we always had guests over if somebody wanted to crash after a drunken night out or something. I would regularly let my guy friends stay and she had no problems with that. She also routinely invited over her female friends who had boyfriends. But when it came to her single female friends she always came up with some bullshit excuse on why they could not stay. After a while i called her out on it. She tells me "single girls love guys who're in relationships".

I think as men we tend to give too much value to concepts like honor, trust , virtue, bro-code etc ... instead of being cold pragmatists like women. Humans are just slightly civilized animals and women seem to have a better grasp of that reality than we do.

Post: #15

(12-23-2015 05:54 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 05:49 AM)Onto Wrote:  Modern day Feminism has thrust the words "controlling" and "jealous" onto men.

You're right and I thought someone might bring this up.

On the other hand, we've all witnessed how effective being too possessive of your woman can be - in many cases it has the opposite effect and repulses her, causing you to lose your grip on the situation. This needy type of control and jealousy is the type of I was referring to in the post. You can sometimes give away your power by trying to eradicate every risk.

That being said, yes, there is definitely room for establishing control in your home and relationship that just comes down to not standing for any bullshit. I think it largely depends on the emotional source of your antics and in what manner you lay down the law.

Yes, this is exactly it.

You can just bring the subject out into the open. Explaining it's not about fear or insecurity. It's about reality and the nature of human beings. If you're good at explaining things using reason then it won't come off as needy and weak. Men who call their women out and can back it up with logic do not come off as weak...far from it.

It depends on the woman too. Trying to reign in a western, career-orientated woman is going to be much more difficult then those of other cultures where it's expected and understood.

Post: #16

(12-23-2015 06:07 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  After a while i called her out on it. She tells me "single girls love guys who're relationships".

Truer words have never been spoken; I like her already.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #17

One of my best friends and his GF recently bought a house and had a child together, so they're insanely busy. If I can help, I do, so I'll come down for a long weekend to give an extra hand with home improvements, or running errands. He's been a loyal friend, and we've gotten each other out of tight jams before (and into, but that's another story). He trusts me enough to be around his family for days on end, but even still it works out that I'm almost never alone with his GF.

I have zero temptation to flirt with his girl, no matter how drunk I am. Once I've written off a chick, my desire is off like a light switch. That might not be true for other guys, and if I were a host I wouldn't take the chance. More importantly, a man should be more worried about his girl, no matter how loyal she's been.

It's in a woman's nature to get bored with her man once the honeymoon period is over. The phrase "What have you done for me lately" was tailor made to a woman's attitude. Even if you've put a half million dollar roof over her head and given her a good life, eventually she'll come to accept it as normal, and get bored of it. Fear of losing what she has is often the only thing holding it together and keeping her honest, but if you dangle new toys in front of her, eventually she'll bite. I think that's why women more often than men identify with cats. Cats will whine for something, and once you give it to them they quickly get bored and whine for something else.

If you have a friend who wouldn't cheat, there's still the possibility of your girl tempting them. What happens if she tries to get him to slip up, and he doesn't go for it? She'll worry that he'll tell her man, and beat him to the punch. She might accuse him of trying it on her instead of the other way around. Now he's stuck between who to believe. Either way, not a good situation to create.

Post: #18

(12-23-2015 09:25 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  If you have a friend who wouldn't cheat, there's still the possibility of your girl tempting them. What happens if she tries to get him to slip up, and he doesn't go for it? She'll worry that he'll tell her man, and beat him to the punch. She might accuse him of trying it on her instead of the other way around. Now he's stuck between who to believe. Either way, not a good situation to create.

This is exactly what happened to me one time in college, except I was that "other" guy who got accused of trying something with the girl. This gave me the first taste of the red pill, which I'm ashamed to say I ignored.

We were all at a party where I got drunk, and I had the sense to tell my friend that it wasn't safe for me to drive. He said I could crash at his place down the street, like I had done so many times before. His girlfriend had been flirting with me when my friend wasn't looking, and it made me feel uncomfortable. My friend was also drunk and passed out on his bed. After he passed out, his girlfriend tried to slip in with me on the couch.

I pushed her away, standing up, and was saying "no no, I can't do this, it's not right, he's my friend." My memory is a bit foggy but I know for 100% sure that nothing whatsoever had happened. The next morning we were all hungover, but everything was cool.

Two days later, my friend comes up to me on campus, red faced, and clocks me right in the face. I stumble backward and I was too shocked to say "what the hell is your problem?" Before I could say anything, he goes "that's what you get for boinking my girlfriend, the shit friend you are!"

My brain couldn't quite register what he was saying. Instead I duck while he attempts another roundhouse, and we wrestle to the ground, getting a couple of mutual blows on each other until several guys come over and break us up. When we all calm down, I finally understand what's going on and explain to him that nothing happened and I did not try anything with this girl. I admitted that she did come on to me, but I blocked her advances.

The look on his face was one of bewilderment, anguish, and the frozen deer-in-headlights hesitancy of not knowing who to believe.

While we made up a few weeks later and everything was cool, he stayed with his girl and our friendship was never the same. We were still "friends", but I never stayed at his place for one night again. Even when the girl is the guilty party, this kind of thing can be very damaging to a friendship between two guys.

Women are both delightful and dangerous.

Post: #19

I live with one of my best buddies (we have a huge place so space isn't an issue, just kind of a comradery thing). He works a full time job (9-5) and I am self employed and can work from home on most days. His GF (who is now a good friend of mine) is a student; therefore home at our house a lot.

I'd say that she spends more time with me on a weekly basis than she does with him. She'll cook lunch, we'll go shopping, talk about travel, I'll help her with her finance homework, etc. -- we've become great friends (and I'm not one to make a habit of befriending females).

What I'm trying to say is this:

The answer to OP's question is not so much a black/white answer, but more a case-by-case basis-- depending on the type of guy and the type of girl left alone.

Theoretically, would you rather have your buddy stay over who is a hardcore womanizer-- or a buddy sleep over who is a sex starved beta.

I have a fair share of good-looking girls on speed dial, and if they were to go away, they would be replaced. Even though my buddy's GF is good-looking, I simply don't have the thirst. I could get stone cold drunk/high and still not think about it; knowing that good friends are a rare commodity and that other girls are a text/phone call away. My buddy knows this and I think he's more comfortable because of it.

Now, on the other hand-- we had what you'd call a "beta" male friend stay for a weekend with us. I don't think this guy could slip and fall into a pussy, although he's managed to pull some lord of the rings extra lookin things in the past.

Anyways, we got a solid buzz on one day (day drinking at the pool with my buddy's gf) and he wouldn't stop talking about how bad he wanted to nail her. Keep in mind, this guy was better friends with my buddy at the time than I was...

It all boils down to thirst and depravity-- when you can't get anything else, you'll stoop to low levels.

Post: #20

Women get bored/curious and they cheat. It happens a lot. A dude's dick has some serious power over his actions. It gets him into a lot of trouble that we can surely all attest to. OP poses a difficult scenario to navigate for sure. This also reminds me of a great porn clip with Nicole Aniston where she sneaks downstairs while her husband is still asleep and fucks his best friend who has been sleeping on there couch for a little while.

I'm a firm believer in that you can never 100% trust anyone except yourself, this goes for family and best friends alike. I'm sure many of us, myself included, have war stories of being burned by people you thought you could rely on. The romantic in us wants to believe in the positive virtues of man, but the realist in us knows everyone is naive, selfish, and wholly ignorant.

The best answer may be to live life how you want to live it and be prepared for the consequences. If you want to be a generous man, then be prepared to get nothing in return and often times be taken complete advantage of. If you want to be selfish then be prepared to be held in contempt by others. There is not "right" way to live.

I've had a girl I was seeing for years cheat on me with a close friend of mine. It happened behind my back for a couple months before I found out. I am no longer friends with that dude and have no spoken to him since that day. I've also had taken women come on to me (I shot them down). Never fully trust anyone.

Can't honestly say how I would handle this hypothetical personally, though. I suppose it would depend on the friend and the situation. I've been burned by "best friends" being around my girl alone in the past so my instinct is to say pass, but I don't like to be a baggage toting fuck who wants to let one bad experience soil my morals.

Post: #21

My dad used to tell me "A stiff pecker has no conscience."

I think I was 8 when he imparted this tidbit of wisdom upon me. Probably why I'm so messed up now

Post: #22

Yes.

It is hard to keep a snake in a cage.

Post: #23

This is why I don't mind inviting couples over to couch surf.

Post: #24

Yes; especially if it's his best friend, even more so if it's his own brother.

From: http://marriedmansexlife.com/2011/10/the...or-guests/

Quote:The reason this happens is because before the third wheel moves in with the couple, both the third wheel and the opposite sex spouse decide whether or not they want to have sex with the other. This can happen consciously or unconsciously. Neither one of them will approve the move unless they have a positive sexual interest in the other. Then once the third wheel moves in, the sexual intentions are already essentially stated and then they just play out as expected. Two opposite sex adults sexually interested in each other, left alone in a house, with an alibi that explains why they are there together. It would be bizarre if they didn’t start fucking each other.

Quote:The key tip off to all of this is the woman’s Isolation Anxiety. A woman will have a serious concern about ever being truly isolated with a man she does not have sexual attraction to.

Quote:For the men in these situations, they are simply wired to take advantage of opportunistic sex when it’s presented to them on a platter. Isolation with a woman attracted to them just gets their dopamine output shooting through the roof to try and get to have sex. They might not even have a major interest in her when she moves in, but within three days they will be getting physically primed to pounce at a moments notice.

Post: #25

(12-23-2015 11:21 AM)Cruisen_Chubby Wrote:  .
Theoretically, would you rather have your buddy stay over who is a hardcore womanizer-- or a buddy sleep over who is a sex starved beta.

I've also had the types of relationships with a friend's chick that you're talking about, and I actually am a person who befriends women often (without ulterior motives). I've also had those experiences you're talking about where some desperate tool makes it clear he would sell his right nut to get at an off limits women because he has no other options.

And "theoretically" what you're saying makes sense. It sounds solid on paper.

However...in real life it's a lot trickier.

I'm not a sex starved beta. Neither was the guy in the worst case scenario who was mounting his roommate's women when he was out working. Neither were guys in countless other stories you hear about.

So, logic is nice and all, and we all love a good intention...but at the end of the day, it's not the sex starved beta's pecker that finds itself inside your ole lady.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling