Post: #1

I'm going to try and keep this as short as possible, but there's a lot to dump here. I'm a veteran, though I wouldn't claim that I am god tier. I'll just say I have a proficient level of mastery in woman management.

Been in a 10+ year relationship, married with 2 kids. Relationship has been strained at times, but I'm starting to wake up to the fact that she wasn't a poor choice, but wasn't the right one. I have the liberty to leave with or without the kids. If I leave with shared custody, she'd be paying me child support. Not sure if that makes me Chad, if it does, I don't feel like it. I just feel like a guy that doesn't take shit and is a tactical master who has also had some success and status in life.

I have about 6 months to a year worth of work to do to bring our "marriage" (for all intents and purposes we are married) to it's highest point. We're running well as a family, and she's making good strides being broken in. She's been a tough one since she has a doctorate degree. She has been headstrong but I've managed. In retrospect it was a lot of wasted energy that should have been spent unicorn hunting. I've got her pinned down now where she understands how its got to be in the house and things are actually the best they've been, despite the rigors of two kids and all that. She spent an extra $150K on our house to make sure I could run my business on the side from the house while I go for my masters and eventually my doctorate.

But I guess I don't really think you can truly understand what to look for, at a real level, until you've been deep deep into the beast, ya feel me? It's entirely possible I can finally win this battle, and she can surrender totally and completely, but I want to start hedging.

I love having a tight knit family, but I have grave concerns. I never understood how challenging stability is in a family compared to an LTR. Being DINKs was fucking CAKE. Jesus, how easy can your life be. Now don't get me wrong, being DINKs is stable but you're going to lose to someone who gives up DNA. That's just the reality of a woman going through their own personal crisis that "it's time." So when that time came, I decided I didn't want to lose her to someone else or play with fire, I committed. I changed myself to be a family man, no regrets there. Satisfying on a very very deep level.

What I never realized in all this is the absolutely fickle nature of a family. With a relationship, women are just disposable if you're doing it right. But with a family, you really need a foundation made of titanium. And we've got some cracks, no doubt. I know how to cement this and set us up to get us to at least getting the kids out of the house. So another 20+ years. She has 20 years to convince me not to leave her for someone younger, that's the way I look at it. But there is still a non-trivial possibility of this all going down in flames.

I've been pretty clear with her in the last couple months that I expect there to be some dramatic changes in our house. She has made great strides, and it's not just in an obedience or compliance type of way, it's helping our relationship. I now see where every relationship should be, I think I have an understanding in totality of what this place is. It's a place I think most modern relationships never make it to.

Simply put it is a man fulfilling masculine duties, making no apologies for their character and a woman submitting willfully and proudly. I have always been unapologetically masculine, but not always a leader in the way that I should have been. I'm not concerned with my ultimate status, because I've already put it all on the table. Basically if you won't submit, I'm not man enough. I offered my neck, she didn't even get the knife out. So I'm good there. But there has been struggle and at times my control was covert, not overt.

Really what I feel like I'm confronting at a thesis level is whether or not a westernized woman is capable of raising a family. She's very low in regards to what I'd say is "westernized" but AWALT. Long story short, she's not a unicorn. And I've finally I think made peace with myself of what that really means. What it means to me, is that a unicorn has a natural desire to please her man. And I think that is extremely rare.

You can make a woman submit, you can train her. We all know this. It doesn't matter how smart she is, she needs a man. But the question I'm really confronting is this.

Can you train your wife to be a unicorn, or must she be born with the horn?

I'll tell you one thing, I'm going to find out the answer to that question in the next year. I'm fairly confident, with enough effort and honesty with yourself, that you can create a unicorn IF your MAIN issue between one in nature and her is simply her natural desire to please. Society has deemed this to be one of its evil's, and we all know that women who publically admit to being first mate always stir the conversation. We've all had to defend our masculine status to the feminine men in relationships with women wearing the pants. We all know what it's like that their women respect us more than them, and we know it.

So here's the thing.

I'm fairly certain I've found a unicorn, and I want to start planting seeds. She knows that this woman is a serious threat, but she doesn't have much say in the matter. And frankly I have no interest in cheating on her with this woman, because if she'd cheat, she's not a unicorn. If she even so much as suggested cheating, I'd have a crisis the likes of which I doubt I could handle. I've never been more certain of a unicorn out in the wild. I have never seen this woman do a single thing that wasn't in the interest of a man. Men have written lore of women like this. If she was to prove to me that she was as capable of infidelity as every other woman, I swear to you guys I'll be writing a suicide note on here. This woman represents hope god damnit.

The story with this girl is that her husband has been dropping the ball for a really long time (2-3 years) and she's barely got her head above water carrying him. She's about to hit the wall, and he's the only guy she's ever slept with. This girl lived for him for over a decade, but he hasn't grown. He hasn't made the leap from young adult to man.

I think it's a good testament to the fact that no woman is the dream woman who will stay with you forever, no matter the trial or tribulation. But she's given all she can give, and all she's asked for are children.

I've been using her as the gold standard in our household. It's been controversial, but I'm standing on stone. I've put my foot down that I do want our family to last the years, and I've told her how insanely difficult this is going to be. I thought I did a good job preparing us for children, I had no idea I had only really cleaned the garage in the scheme of things.

The relationship needs to be completely devoid of insecurity or female resistance. I consider sitcom families to be a way of calming the notion that most families will fail as the women in the relationship overpower the men. This symbolic representation of "normality" is really just the crisis of an unnatural system (monogamy) which is under intense pressure from modern dating paradigms. I look at the way that relationships used to work (TradCon) and they make a lot more sense, they are a practical solution to a flawed idea. Modern dating is an idea, presented as a solution to this problem. It says that respect and "love" are the cornerstones of your relationship, that partner counts don't matter, etc etc. It's just institutionalizing, condoning and normalizing failure.

I don't care to know, or even theorize why things are this way. What I can say is that I feel a terror deep inside me to the actual challenge of keeping a family together and understanding it at a much deeper level once I've gotten to this point.

I think you spend an entire relationship training a woman and things get better, then they get strained, they get better, and you just keep working inch by inch. Years fly by when you move in, buy a house, have kids etc.

Then holy shit, we have to keep these things alive. We didn't even have to apply to get these things, this is madness! And you realize that "relationship" you had before kids was a joke. Family is on entirely different level. People kill themselves and each other for a god damn good reason over this stuff. People don't kill their friend at work for getting a promotion you thought you'd get.

This is a lot of braindump for these questions. For those that have enough experience to offer their thesis.

1 ) Do you think a woman can be turned into a unicorn? Or do you think the natural desire to please must be innate?

2) What stages do families go through, in the way that relationships go from hookup, STR, LTR, Marriage, Children?

3) How would you work the unicorn deal long term? Would you be workout buddies with her? What if her husband and your wife were scared of you two together? Would that turn you into an emotional tamp on?

Wish me luck gentleman, I'm about 70% on my alchemy theory here. That a woman can be ultimately tamed. But 30% of me tells me that it must be innate, and anecdotally these women comprise only 2-5% of the population.

Post: #2

I don't hear guys with foreign wives dumping this often.

It sounds like you are proud to be some mental chess master with a Western woman like it is some sort of thing you could get a medal for.

Good luck! I don't have any answers.

Post: #3

(12-16-2015 05:05 PM)Travesty Wrote:  I don't hear guys with foreign wives dumping this often.

It sounds like you are proud to be some mental chess master with a Western woman like it is some sort of thing you could get a medal for.

Good luck! I don't have any answers.

Huh? She's not foreign. My talk about "westernization" was really a way to say she has a low degree of hypergamous traits.

She's a cornfed college educated doctorate degree holding white girl.

If anything I've found indian women to be worse, since they are actually bitter about their situation. Have had to black knight a couple.

Post: #4

Post: #5

I wish your story and questions were in clearer language, not because I'm an idiot, but because it's hard to follow with the theory aspects mixed in the same sentence with the facts of what's happening.

You found another woman, she's your ideal, and you're (literally or figuratively? Not clear) showing her to your wife as an example of what you want her to be? Is that correct? My first thought is, that's an odd scenario.

"How do I deal with the unicorn"?
-Well do you want to fuck her? Use her to train your wife? Be friends? You don't say what you want, what the options are, in order for us to steer you in the best direction.

"She's about to hit the wall"
-Not my kind of unicorn then

It's a whole lot of words for a simple thing- you found a woman that interests you, and the choice is leaving your wife or not. Some near-wall "unicorn" shouldn't be the deciding factor whether you stay in your marriage or not. It sounds like you're bored. You need to decide if this boredom is worth leaving her or not. Only you can answer that

Post: #6

(12-16-2015 05:11 PM)whatsayitboys Wrote:  She's a cornfed college educated doctorate degree holding white girl.

Yes, this is why there are no real answers for you.

You put yourself underwater.

Post: #7

(12-16-2015 05:41 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  I wish your story and questions were in clearer language, not because I'm an idiot, but because it's hard to follow with the theory aspects mixed in the same sentence with the facts of what's happening.

You found another woman, she's your ideal, and you're (literally or figuratively? Not clear) showing her to your wife as an example of what you want her to be? Is that correct? My first thought is, that's an odd scenario.

"How do I deal with the unicorn"?
Well do you want to fuck her? Use her to train your wife? Be friends? You don't say what you want, what the options are, in order for us to steer you in the best direction.

I'm training my wife with her, but also want to actually start planting seeds. Dread level 100. She's in crazy workout mode because she's on the outs, and I'm looking for a workout partner. Her husband is mate guarding her from me and my wife is trying to do the same.

I believe she's the purest form of unicorn I've seen in the wild. If this girl is a secret ho, fidelity is not just unrealistic, it is false.

She's going to divorce her husband in the next 6 months to a year. She's already working out on an outrageous pace. Has had a couple conversations with close friends that she wants to get divorced.

We get along great, I'm using it all to my advantage. She's the lever I'm using to break the last bit of hardness out of my wife and also someone I'd leave her for if she doesn't start hitting the ground with her knees harder.

If there's something I've grown to have absolute disdain for, it's the effort involved in this. I've "gotten old" and I've just decided I'm totally unwilling to tolerate even minor transgressions from women. Basically you're either first mate, enjoyable crew or out to the fuckin' sea with you.

I would not leave my wife for this women unless I was confident that you can't perform alchemy. I'm pretty sure it's possible, but I'm still looking for input on the debate between natural submissives and training.

I'm 6 months to a year away from having my wife trained to absolute completion. But now that I'm almost there, I'm having concerns whether such a thing is actually possible. I'm literally confronting the degree of willingness a person will shed their ego, will reject societal norms and its narrative. She's said before she feels as though I'm breaking her very being.

I'm close to getting her to let go, but my ultimate concern is whether this effort is futile.

Post: #8

(12-16-2015 05:55 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

(12-16-2015 05:11 PM)whatsayitboys Wrote:  She's a cornfed college educated doctorate degree holding white girl.

Yes, this is why there are no real answers for you.

You put yourself underwater.

You're going to have to be more clear here. Not sure if you're just rejecting western women, or educated women or what.

Women with graduate degrees are much less hypergamous in my experience. They spend their CC years studying.

Post: #9

The title threw me off, but I stopped reading once I heard you have kids.

I don't believe in Unicorns.

Post: #10

You spent an hour writing this and it doesn't even make any sense. You're just rambling on about unicorns and shit.

I think what you're saying is that you're married to a wife with a PhD, who brings in the money, added 150k to your house, wants to support you furthering your education, who hasn't cheated on you, and you want to divorce her, leave your family, make her pay you alimony, and settle down with a woman who has a husband that's childish because you find her more feminine?

Is that correct?

Post: #11

The story is a little confusing... but if I understand it correctly, this dread game you're running might be over the top and could backfire. It sounds like it's not so discreet, but rather throwing it in your wife's face.

That aside, a happy ending to this story doesn't sound too promising. Like Travesty, I have no answers.

May I ask how old you are and what country do you live in? The USA, I presume?

Post: #12

What linux said.

(12-16-2015 06:04 PM)whatsayitboys Wrote:  She's going to divorce her husband in the next 6 months to a year. She's already working out on an outrageous pace. Has had a couple conversations with close friends that she wants to get divorced.

You'd be falling right into her trap, she knows she'll be single and will hit the wall and is trying to cash in just in time. Don't do it

Post: #13

(12-16-2015 07:36 PM)LINUX Wrote:  You spent an hour writing this and it doesn't even make any sense. You're just rambling on about unicorns and shit.

I think what you're saying is that you're married to a wife with a PhD, who brings in the money, added 150k to your house, wants to support you furthering your education, who hasn't cheated on you, and you want to divorce her, leave your family, make her pay you alimony, and settle down with a woman who has a husband that's childish because you find her more feminine?

Is that correct?

Well a bit of an oversimplification. Basically at a theoretical level, I'm having trouble digesting that a woman can ultimately be tamed sufficiently to raise a family unless she has an innate desire to please men. Not just you. That (a woman who is trying to please you, because dread etc), is really dictated by pure attraction, which is impossible to maintain at that ultra high level you get in the honeymoon phase without a massive smv disparity. I basically "get it" why people that have otherwise solid relationships end up failing even if they have kids and their shit in order.

So I'm really trying to open a debate with some old guards that have jumped into the belly of the beast and have some opinions on this orientation, namely innate vs trained.

That at a theoretical level is whether or not you believe in unicorns I guess. I don't believe the bluepill idea of a woman that never leaves exists, period. But I think that orientation is ultimately what separates relationships that endear. I think this was a more common trait with our parents that is all but extinct.

Saying this other woman is just "more feminine" isn't really accurate, and also painting my wife as a perfect being is not either. AWALT basically. She has displayed hypergamous traits at times, and that's when I basically started to put things under the microscope more. When you're looking 20 years out, I think you get a lot more sensitive to these things.

This is my wall. If I don't think things are solid enough, I'll start another family.

(12-16-2015 07:37 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  The story is a little confusing... but if I understand it correctly, this dread game you're running might be over the top and could backfire. It sounds like it's not so discreet, but rather throwing it in your wife's face.

That aside, a happy ending to this story doesn't sound too promising. Like Travesty, I have no answers.

May I ask how old you are and what country do you live in? The USA, I presume?

Early 30s, USA.

(12-16-2015 08:45 PM)getdownonit Wrote:  What linux said.

(12-16-2015 06:04 PM)whatsayitboys Wrote:  She's going to divorce her husband in the next 6 months to a year. She's already working out on an outrageous pace. Has had a couple conversations with close friends that she wants to get divorced.

You'd be falling right into her trap, she knows she'll be single and will hit the wall and is trying to cash in just in time. Don't do it

It's not really a trap, she hasn't communicated overt or covert interest, just really strong IOIs. Basically you just know with some girls. This is one of those cases. It's not really a thing I'm pursuing. The thread was supposed to be about debating the merits of a pleasing orientation on whether or not a woman can actually be trained.

I will likely reformat this into two threads. You guys are right, this thread is SHITE.

Post: #14

Ok you're pretty young. I was thinking you were in your 40s or 50s.

So... I'm still lost. What has your wife done wrong, exactly?

Or are you just getting an itch for different pussy because some cute feminine younger girl has been looking your way?

Post: #15

(12-16-2015 09:51 PM)whatsayitboys Wrote:  I will likely reformat this into two threads.

Please don't.

These are your first posts. YOU may know what you mean when you write in this rambling, incoherent style, but there's an elegance of simplicity that seems to elude you.

Incorporate some Hemingway into your Faulkner. State your situation perspicaciously.

Am I right here, guys? The OP is being pretty vague. What's the over under on him being a troll? Are you too good to read the newbie guide?

A little humility does well here. None of us are above the newbie forum at times.

Right now you've got a tale told by an idiot, signifying nothing.

Post: #16

(12-16-2015 10:03 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  Ok you're pretty young. I was thinking you were in your 40s or 50s.

So... I'm still lost. What has your wife done wrong, exactly?

Or are you just getting an itch for different pussy because some cute feminine younger girl has been looking your way?

Basically nothing, just that I accidentally I think proved to myself that if a woman doesn't have a natural inclination to please and submit that she's incapable of a long term family.

I feel like an oncologist diagnosing myself as terminal. If a woman can't ultimately be trained into total submission and have her orientation be to please, then unicorns are the only family worthy women.

I'm not itching to get out, I want our family to survive for the next 20 years. But I'm skeptical given the fickle nature and high stakes. I've put everyone I know and have ever met as a couple under the microscope.

I think I found a unicorn in the wild, and I'm poking at it to see if its real.

From here there's 3 possible outcomes.

* The "unicorn" is AWALT (she makes overt or covert interest or admits to having cheated). I've proven to myself red pill women are really a myth. Family life is then a farce.
* A woman can not be tamed unless her desire to submit is innate. I've proven to myself the nuclear family is unlikely to be stable enough. If unicorns exist, start over. If not, eject and plate.
* A woman can be tamed and change her natural inclination. My family can survive for 20+ years if I hold my end of the bargain.

(12-16-2015 10:03 PM)h3ltrsk3ltr Wrote:  

(12-16-2015 09:51 PM)whatsayitboys Wrote:  I will likely reformat this into two threads.

Please don't.

These are your first posts. YOU may know what you mean when you write in this rambling, incoherent style, but there's an elegance of simplicity that seems to elude you.

Incorporate some Hemingway into your Faulkner. State your situation perspicaciously.

Am I right here, guys? The OP is being pretty vague. What's the over under on him being a troll? Are you too good to read the newbie guide?

A little humility does well here. None of us are above the newbie forum at times.

I think you'll find my new post concise.

Post: #17

(12-16-2015 10:26 PM)whatsayitboys Wrote:  I think you'll find my new post concise.

I did not.

Read all of our advice and try again in this thread. Stop inflicting your poor writing on us in multiple threads.

Possibly lay off the coke. The sound and fury might subside.

And why in the living fuck do you use the rainbow icon in your posts. That concept alone makes me think you're a troll.

Post: #18

(12-16-2015 06:04 PM)whatsayitboys Wrote:  I'm 6 months to a year away from having my wife trained to absolute completion.

This is just silly, and why I'm now getting on the troll wagon. How on Earth would you have any idea of the timeline needed? And the whole notion of trained to 'absolute completion', it's too ridiculous.

Post: #19

I'll humor the OP.

What's a unicorn to you? My checklist is kilometric, but I'll just list a few traits.

My ideal wife would be 8+, enjoy cooking, works-to-live a decent 9-5, doesn't believe men and women who are attracted to each other can be friends, doesn't AHO, thinks feminists are all ugly cunts, and has a notch count of 1 = me. On top of that, she should have the body type where she retains a slim waist up until her 60s and only gains weight in her ass and thighs as she gets older.





See that overweight b to the right? I would bang the fuck out of her. 50 year olds with a body type like that exist. They are rare.

I'll focus on prioritizing my list in order of importance. From there I have a little fun assigning each of my serious relationships a score from 1-100. That's as far as I'll go mentally masturbating about unicorns, because they don't exist... 100% is simply not possible.

Post: #20

(12-16-2015 11:52 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(12-16-2015 06:04 PM)whatsayitboys Wrote:  I'm 6 months to a year away from having my wife trained to absolute completion.

This is just silly, and why I'm now getting on the troll wagon. How on Earth would you have any idea of the timeline needed? And the whole notion of trained to 'absolute completion', it's too ridiculous.

You're reading too hard into this stuff trying to make this conform to the idea I'm a troll. When you've been training a woman for a while you know your timeline, it's not that outrageous.

Could you have an estimate for how long it's going to take to win favor of your boss at work on getting you onto a huge project as a promotion? It's like that.

Post: #21

(12-16-2015 06:06 PM)whatsayitboys Wrote:  

(12-16-2015 05:55 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

(12-16-2015 05:11 PM)whatsayitboys Wrote:  She's a cornfed college educated doctorate degree holding white girl.

Yes, this is why there are no real answers for you.

You put yourself underwater.

You're going to have to be more clear here. Not sure if you're just rejecting western women, or educated women or what.

Women with graduate degrees are much less hypergamous in my experience. They spend their CC years studying.

Post: #22

I feel like I am just reading word vomit that is all jumbled with the illusion of discussing something important.

Difficult to follow.

Post: #23

I read the whole thing...



Had no idea what it was about until GlobalMan clarified.

Post: #24

A new type of troll - the male attention-whore?

Post: #25

For some reason this post reminds me a lot of American Beauty. The in couple gossip. The cornfed wife. The American picket fence scenario…

…To me it's a horror movie. IMO if I ever found myself in such an environment I would be questioning what I did wrong.