Post: #1276

(12-14-2015 06:44 PM)1026 Wrote:  @ Fury

Whereabouts in S.A?

Guys you have to come through to my country.
South Africa has the hottest black women on the continent.
(possibly the world, but I haven't traveled & I'm being a patriotic chode)

All colours, yellow bones through to dark brown chocolate.

& we specialize in ass, big boots brah!
Since yoga pants (leggings as their known locally) dropped.
Things ain't ever been the same.
When a universally thick female body is in it, you'll understand.

I'm done ranting. But really come through.
That's why I learnt game, these girls are too maine.

You in Joburg or Cape Town?

Moma and I might have to come down there and do a show on location. lol

If we have a local in the trenches, it makes it more appealing.

Post: #1277

(12-15-2015 01:43 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  ^^ With all due respect, I have found many mixed race kids hold onto the identity of the white culture. Yes, if you have a child with a black woman then they might "accept" the Jamaican culture but I would strongly be surprised if a mixed kid did.
I have met dozens of mixed race people in the UK, who considered themselves British and only British. They probably couldn't even point out Jamaica on a map. Again this is due to the black parent not teaching them about their Caribbean culture. You could also take out England and put in Canada, USA etc. Again I blame the parent, who most times is trying to escape being black themselves.

As for the fat white gals in both pics, no black man should reduce himself to being with them. I have met so many decent looking gals overseas that would kill to be with a decent black man, I don't see the need of even discussing fat white gals. As you rightly said, it is a stereotype we need to abolish. Maybe I am lucky or fortunate, I don't see many black guys dating girls like the one in the second pic.

Right on time, the latest article from Citizen Renegade.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/

Wow. I read that article. My goodness. How racist and horrible. The comments are even worse. American author on an American site I'm guessing ? I just don't understand the hate. How can you hate a whole group of people based on something neither you or those you hate had any control over? Shit like that article puts me off (1) the manosphere and (2) viewing white women than anything other than banging material.

Is twenty-four too young to give up on humanity?

Post: #1278

Don't ever give up DK, you got a good head on your shoulders and a bright future ahead of you.

I say just know there are people that think like that, not all of course.

Not all black folk are wonderful either, as you get older you will feel the need to narrow down your circles of friends.

Post: #1279

Yeah Roissy is an American and is very popular on this site.

Post: #1280

Rudebwoy Wrote:Right on time, the latest article from Citizen Renegade.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/

thedarkknight Wrote:Wow. I read that article. My goodness. How racist and horrible. The comments are even worse. American author on an American site I'm guessing ? I just don't understand the hate. How can you hate a whole group of people based on something neither you or those you hate had any control over? Shit like that article puts me off (1) the manosphere and (2) viewing white women than anything other than banging material.

Is twenty-four too young to give up on humanity?

My basic rule is, I don't get my game information from white nationalist sites or race trolls in general. These are the same people who'll say you can never get [insert race] girl unless she's ugly or deranged...until you do of course. Then they twist and writhe.

If confronted, they respond with "hey we're on the same team, we're all men fighting against feminism and a broken system"

I say "No we're fucking not, we're not on the same team at all, we're not even playing the same sport. I'm in the game to make money, get laid, and have fun and grow as a man throughout the journey. You're in it for the race trolling, good luck on your journey bud, but leave me out of it"

I wouldn't even dignify this bullshit with clicks (I didn't actually even click on the link, but I guarantee it's hardcore race trolling, the male version of hamsterising).

Post: #1281

I been saying that their mindset bleeds into the game advice. Cats do not see it.

WIA

Post: #1282

(12-15-2015 03:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I been saying that their mindset bleeds into the game advice. Cats do not see it.

WIA

Inner game fundamentals aren't built on tearing other people down. The sooner folks realize that, the better their game will develop. Otherwise they'll be stuck in the purgatory of their own minds, seething with rage at the sight of a success that isn't theirs.

Post: #1283

Some possibly rhetorical questions:

Why are they always fixated on non-white (usually black) guys and white girls?

Why don't they really care about white guys and non-white girls?

Post: #1284

I think this was already discussed here, wasn't it?

Just ignore their racist shit. Take some of the game advice (with a pinch of salt) and throw the rest out.

This is what I started doing on the forum : pretty much sticking to the (very good) game advice here and leaving out the things that bother me.

Post: #1285

(12-15-2015 01:23 PM)Excelsior Wrote:  The best answer is to leave.

The USA will never allow you to be more than its limited racial lenses perceive you to be. As has been documented extensively in this thread, black men have been able to go to other parts of the world and leverage their non-stereotypical qualities while still attracting a larger number of quality women. This will not happen in the USA because this society and the people in it (black, white, or otherwise) has already decided what you are and what you need to be (or what they need you to be), and there is nothing you can do to change their minds. If you want to increase your odds of being judged for who you are and not what you are and you want to be desired for traits you have that are outside the realm of those stereotypically attached to black people here, you need to leave the USA behind. There simply isn't a lot of room in this country for the non-stereotypical black male.

If you insist on staying here and fighting the good fight, there are some decent suggestions here regarding a form of "contrast game". The most effective strategic application of this is to put a lot of energy into playing up your non-stereotypical status indicators (could be the job, the style, education, etc) and presenting yourself accordingly. You'll then rely to some extent on the contrast between the person you've presented to her and the person she typically expects to meet when someone of your background is in the picture to generate some interest and get her thinking beyond the limited concept of you she probably had initially. This, in turn, may force her to start thinking more about who you are and less about what you are, opening the door for your non-stereotypical traits to have some more intrigue and worth.

Its a ton of work for a relatively limited and very uncertain return (many of the girls you meet will be too close-minded to process your non-stereotypical self and might dismiss it outright no matter what; others will see it but decline it because of social pressure; others will see the contrast and decide they'd rather not spend energy/time processing it when they can go to what they know), but it can yield some success if applied consistently along with some social circle game.

Honestly, though, you're probably better off just leaving whenever you can and getting into an environment where your non-stereotypical traits count for more in and of themselves.

I'd say there's opportunity both inside the US and outside...
it's just that inside you better be prepared to stack the deck
and be very influential if you want top tier women to flock to you.

Contrast game can be stunningly effective...however you also need
a serious competitive advantage. A solid social network that weaves
across many different circles, activities and interests. Women have
to come to you either socially or professionally(and then socially:-)

In America, you have to play Monopoly to win. Outside the US, you just
have to show up and be a cool brother.

Post: #1286

Lol @262

Naw B, we're fixated and focused on building ourselves up and avoiding pitfalls and distractions. Figuring out their issues is a waste of time, imo.

So along those lines,

For the brougham starting out, where does common advice fail?

When I started out, night life was considerably more popular. I'm getting the sense that meeting strangers happens more through online game?

That means a major change in how to start...or "nah"?

WIA

Post: #1287

^^

Agree. It's just a distraction. Better things to do and see - leave them treading water.

And WIA is right, that attitude is spilling over in game.

Post: #1288

(12-15-2015 01:43 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  ^^ With all due respect, I have found many mixed race kids hold onto the identity of the white culture. Yes, if you have a child with a black woman then they might "accept" the Jamaican culture but I would strongly be surprised if a mixed kid did.
I have met dozens of mixed race people in the UK, who considered themselves British and only British. They probably couldn't even point out Jamaica on a map. Again this is due to the black parent not teaching them about their Caribbean culture. You could also take out England and put in Canada, USA etc. Again I blame the parent, who most times is trying to escape being black themselves.

You're right, but I'm also well aware of this reality. Remember, I'm a) also English (plenty of extended family still there, many mixed; I know the situation over there a bit) and I have b) spent a lot of time researching the Jamaican diaspora in the UK, largely for football purposes. We've talked about this from a football perspective quite a bit when it comes to Jamaican descendants in England possibly representing Jamaica (but usually being rather indifferent/hostile to the idea). Many (perhaps close to half) of these potential recruits (ex: Scott Sinclair, Ravel Morisson, Troy Deeney, etc) are mixed, and reticence with regard to Jamaica is common among them.

Why? It is just as you said: they're disconnected. They aren't raised in a way that keeps them in touch with their Jamaican roots (often due to a lack of paternal influence, since their fathers are usually the source of the Jamaican blood and Jamaican men are known for going ghost on a woman after breeding her) and they've very often never even been to Jamaica. Combine that with England's better race relations relative to the USA (I find that the black English are far better integrated into mainstream white-dominated English society than black Americans are with white America), and it isn't too hard to see why so many of these youths feel no conection to the island.

That being said, I've accounted for this:

(12-15-2015 01:22 PM)Excelsior Wrote:  I decided a long time ago that I will want to encourage any woman I'm with to allow us to have our children in Jamaica and potentially raise them there for some period of time (or at least visit very frequently and have the children spend multiple summers on the island).

Jamaica will be on their birth certificate. They will be in Jamaica every chance I get to send them there, be it for summers, christmas and other holidays, or random visits. I may even arrange to have them schooled there for a time during their early life the way that I was. I will ensure that a large portion of the inheritance I intend to build for them will be there in the form of land or other assets. The Jamaican flag will be in their face from the day they leave the womb, on every little item of clothing they wear and on the paraphanelia (blankets, bibs, toys, etc) they use. They will learn the national anthem. They will watch Jamaican TV via internet streaming. Their first exposure to sports will come in the form of Jamaican football.

This is going to be a conscious effort. I am not going to allow them to lose their connection to the island and forget its importance so as to just drift into oblivion in the diaspora while blending into the western masses. I will forge strong links for them, and they will be better for it. Unlike African-Americans (of all shades and mixtures generally) and most mixed youths around the world, they will always know they have a home where a) they can truly lay an ancestral claim (roots run deep, nobody can claim that they have had no stake in the nation's history and "don't belong" for that reason), and b) where their appearance and/or ancestry closes no doors to them at the higher levels of society (nobody can claim that because they look a certain way, certain influential doors should either be closed to them or made harder to open). These are the things that breed confidence and security in people, and blacks in the USA and elsewhere (again, mixed or otherwise) have always lacked them. That leads to trouble.

With the connection I've given them and a resulting firm understanding of where their roots really are and what they really are, they'll be better prepared to handle any of the complex, frustrating, and omniscient racial BS they may face in a place like the USA. Unlike many of the black children (mixed or not, dark skinned or light) who reside in the USA and end up having existential crises as a result of uncertain identity and suffer greatly for it (I know, I went through it), they will have no problem finding a clear answer to the question of their true identity. That is the key to security and confidence.

Quote:As for the fat white gals in both pics, no black man should reduce himself to being with them. I have met so many decent looking gals overseas that would kill to be with a decent black man, I don't see the need of even discussing fat white gals. As you rightly said, it is a stereotype we need to abolish. Maybe I am lucky or fortunate, I don't see many black guys dating girls like the one in the second pic.

You must be lucky not to see that often.

The girl in the first pic is too big for me, but I could see why she might appeal to many. She's not a sloppy blob, and her thickness is perfectly placed (for now - a baby or a few months of bad dieting will probably ruin that). I wouldn't be embarrassed to be seen with her. The second woman is another story.

Quote:Right on time, the latest article from Citizen Renegade.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/

Of course...
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/12/...mudsharks/

Quote:Mudsharks. Coal burners. Smoke jumpers. Daughters of Single Moms. Perhaps you know them as open-minded progressives. Normal people who don’t get a thrill up their legs signaling their antiracism righteousness know them as trash with daddy issues and destroyers of thousands of years of genetic legacy that produced the pinnacle in human aesthetics.

Smoke jumper is a completely new one to me. Credit to this lot for the creativity.

(12-15-2015 03:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I been saying that their mindset bleeds into the game advice. Cats do not see it.

WIA

The more I read and the older I get, the easier it is to spot. This thread right here (based on a recent article on the main site) isn't a bad example - pay particular attention to #4.

The sheer amount of sexually-based resentment among other men in the USA toward black men becomes clearer to me with each passing year. I see it in posts like this, I read it on mainstream websites, I feel it on the street, I sense it in the bars and clubs I head out to...

Gets tiring after a while.

(12-15-2015 04:45 PM)262 Wrote:  Some possibly rhetorical questions:

Why are they always fixated on non-white (usually black) guys and white girls?

Why don't they really care about white guys and non-white girls?

Because they resent black men. They hold them to a different standard than they do other groups of men and themselves because they just do not like them. It is this simple.

Post: #1289

(12-15-2015 05:06 PM)Apollo21 Wrote:  I'd say there's opportunity both inside the US and outside...
it's just that inside you better be prepared to stack the deck
and be very influential if you want top tier women to flock to you.

Contrast game can be stunningly effective...however you also need
a serious competitive advantage. A solid social network that weaves
across many different circles, activities and interests. Women have
to come to you either socially or professionally(and then socially:-)

In America, you have to play Monopoly to win. Outside the US, you just
have to show up and be a cool brother.

Well said.

As I noted, you can fight the good fight here, but it will take a lot more out of you. The bar is extraordinarily high, and even when you reach it you're facing relatively high odds of failure. It is simply multiple orders of magnitude more difficult for a non-stereotypical black male to level the sexual playing field here. The social circle game has to be intricately immaculate, the income higher, the displayed status (style, place of living, car, job, etc) higher, the verbal game tighter, the execution less flawed and closer to ruthless perfection.

Meanwhile, getting on that same level playing field abroad requires one to effectively skip most of the above and just be closer to themselves.

Knowing this, at some point, you start to ask yourself if the "opportunities" in the USA are really worth fighting for.

Post: #1290

What's funny is that when it's a fat white chick and a black guy everyone turns their heads, but when it's the typical middle america or southern white guy and his fat ass wife, everything is normal. They also love to pick the bottom barrel of black guys and not the top rated as examples. Devonte is a felon, with no job, 2 kids, and tattoos on his face, he dates fat ass pale Susie mae. She has self esteem issues, can't get a decent white man so settles for leftover black man. Akwande is an electrical engineer with a new loft downtown and brings in over 100k a year who dates fine ass tan Sarah, she is using him for money. Wait Sarah is an Lawyer, well she has daddy issues. Wait Sarah and her dad are close and talk every other day, well she just wants to be different. All these excuses i've heard before and it gets old after some time.

The subtle hate for us is not so subtle and most are not aware that it comes from two fronts. Jealous white men and jealous black women. I can't even say it's all white guys, because for every one that hated on me, another winged for me and was genuinely happy when i pulled. The one thing i've taken from my 3 years of lurking and commenting on this site is to keep improving yourself, keep striving for better younger hotter smarter women, and definitely don't let fucking keyboard race trolls get the best of you.

-CD

Post: #1291

Excelsior, your Jamaican outlook on ensuring the children are in touch with their roots is interesting and I'd like to see some expansion on that. Now as an adult, have you visited Jamaica to see what the culture is like for those who are there beyond a tourist capacity, just to see if it meshes with your views on how positive it will be on the children?

Do you socialise with other Jamericans to see if their outlook on life in America as a blacks is less jaded than a typical African American?

Also, what about SVG in terms of impacting your children's future since you are half! You might also want to check that island out, it would offer a similar melting pot and afro centric mindset without being as turned up as Yaard.

As a background, I have encountered tons of mixed people growing up in the UK. I spent my summers in Liverpool which had the most mixed lot I ever seen in my life. It seemed like every single black man there's intent was to tap into some white!

Regarding the behaviour and outlook of the ones in London, I found that there was some confusion internally due to a lack of identity. As Rudebwoy alluded to, this lack of identity was the fault of their parents who often got together on lust and felt that the need to educate their children of Afrocentrism was hugely overblown since we live in a racial utopia. As a result, when the children matured into adults, lo and behold the rage when they didn't get any unique treatment despite having one white parent!

Here are a few particular examples of outrage I recall. I was in the car with a few of my mates. Driver was white british. The other guy was mixed. An announcement came on the radio announcing that Ms Dynamite is the top selling black female UK artist of that era. Ms Dynamite was a female garage (popping music genre at the time) emcee with a black Jamaican dad and a white Irish mum.
The mixed guy was indignant and said out loud:
"Why is he calling her black when she is mixed?!"
I chuckled to myself and thought:
"What does it matter? What exclusive treatment in Britain do you get based on skin tone?"

The more overt example was with the same mixed guy. We had finished the gym and he was showing me how to get back to the train station (made a day trip and I was outside of London). Dusk was beginning to fall and as we walked to the station, a white guy with a backpack on accosted us.
"Bang, mate, you're dead!" he laughed and made gun fingers at us.

I found this amusing because I don't pull race cards easily plus he was insignificantly small (no offense to the shorter readers).
The mixed guy's black granddad was 7'2 and he had gotten a fair share of the height (he was 6'9 and quite built).
He looked at me and shook his head and suddenly burst off after the short white fellow with a cry. The two sprinted off, 6'9 chasing 5'6 and I stood there watching, my emotions commingled with humour and confusion.

My conclusion was that there is a lot of rage inside the mixed peeps due to a lack of education from the parents. Bear in mind that this mixed guy grew up with both parents in an affluent area of London. His dad was black (and very well educated and accomplished) and his mum was Irish (those combos are quite common in England from my observation).

Perhaps you are right and sending the mixed kids back to Jamaica regularly would improve knowledge of self. You might even want to have the kids in the West and then send them home to live with an aunty or grandma back in Jam or SVG until they are about 14-15. West Indian education now is actually better than Western (except perhaps for technology). They still adhere to British standards of education which was the hallmark of education back in the days. Even London public education sucks now and most cats confuse the words 'lose' with 'loose' and 'their' for 'there'.

In terms of knowledge of self, I recall not even knowing Bob Marley was mixed until my African friend who was reggae crazy brought this up in a casual discussion when I was in uni. I'd listened to Bob from time and I always thought Bob was a just light skinned cat with locks as there are many hues in Jamaica (just like Spragga Benz for instance).

I do recall however, that the mixed children with black mums seemed to be less at turmoil with themselves. I used to move with a cat who was mixed (white British dad, black Jamaican mum) and his confidence in self was very good. Obviously, most of the guys would learn the most from their mums since the dads whether white or Jamaican, would often not be present (the guy whose father was white, did not grow up with his dad around).

Food for thought, I guess.

Post: #1292

(12-15-2015 04:02 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 03:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I been saying that their mindset bleeds into the game advice. Cats do not see it.

WIA

Inner game fundamentals aren't built on tearing other people down. The sooner folks realize that, the better their game will develop. Otherwise they'll be stuck in the purgatory of their own minds, seething with rage at the sight of a success that isn't theirs.

YES! Yes nigga.

Post: #1293

(12-15-2015 11:57 PM)Moma Wrote:  Excelsior, your Jamaican outlook on ensuring the children are in touch with their roots is interesting and I'd like to see some expansion on that. Now as an adult, have you visited Jamaica to see what the culture is like for those who are there beyond a tourist capacity, just to see if it meshes with your views on how positive it will be on the children?

Do you socialise with other Jamericans to see if their outlook on life in America as a blacks is less jaded than a typical African American?

I haven't been in 5 years, unfortunately. I was supposed to go back this summer but school/work concerns got in the way.
Part of my long term plan is to get more frequent visits, with the goal being to see the island multiple times a year over the course of the next 20 years or so. Once I finally leave school and have a steady job/income, this will get easier. The plan is to get back 1-3 times a year, build deeper links (personal and business) on the island with my relatives and their extended social circles, cultivate those links over time as I consistently return, and then use them to facilitate my eventual return to the island and sustain my children's connection to it. Ideally, I would hope to find a Jamaican wife through these efforts as well.

I know the culture very well thanks to my own family and extensive interaction with Jamericans and Jamaicans alike, which is why I'm so dead set on keeping my descendants close to it. Jamaican culture is flawed in more ways than one, but it is vastly more likely to produce sane individuals with values that I considered worthwhile than the culture here in the USA is. The older I've gotten, the clearer it has become to me that I don't want my children to be cocooned in the culture here. It breeds too much dysfunction, especially among blacks raised in it (unless you can completely shelter the youths in expensive American prep schools, which I may end up trying to do if they're forced to spend any time growing up in this country).

Quote:Also, what about SVG in terms of impacting your children's future since you are half! You might also want to check that island out, it would offer a similar melting pot and afro centric mindset without being as turned up as Yaard.

I've thought about it. The only reason I haven't pursued it further is because I get that link from my father, and I've never met him. I know very little about his extended family (I have no idea who his parents are) and I've never been to SVG. I've been disconnected from the SVG lineage for some of the same reasons Rudebwoy noted that a lot of English-Jamaicans are disconnected from their Caribbean legacy - lack of parental involvement.

That being said, I've kept up with SVG and I'm proud to have links there. I've tried to meet other Vincentians - we're very rare, and so far I've only met one (a girl in NYC), but I continue to try and discover more all the time and keep up with news on the country. In the long-term, I do intend to eventually track my father down, gather more information about my roots in SVG, visit SVG, and obtain papers to secure SVG citizenship for myself and all of my children. With SVG nationality, they'll have more options in life and another place to call home if they need it.

Because of the way I was raised, I'll never be as close to SVG as Jamaica, but SVG is definitely part of the long-term plan.

Quote:Perhaps you are right and sending the mixed kids back to Jamaica regularly would improve knowledge of self. You might even want to have the kids in the West and then send them home to live with an aunty or grandma back in Jam or SVG until they are about 14-15. West Indian education now is actually better than Western (except perhaps for technology). They still adhere to British standards of education which was the hallmark of education back in the days. Even London public education sucks now and most cats confuse the words 'lose' with 'loose' and 'their' for 'there'.

As I said, knowledge of self and one's roots is key to confidence and security. Blacks in the diaspora (often even those who aren't mixed) lack this knowledge, and it is a big reason why they struggle relative to their non-black neighbors who are, for the most part, more secure in who/what they are.
I thought about having the children in the west, but decided I'd rather they have the birth connection to their ancestral home instead. They will still be westerners regardless - they'll inherit American citizenship from me and UK papers from my mother, so where they are born won't impact that. The key is just to keep them close to the roots, and birthplace is a key first step in that. After they're born, I suspect they'll spend a lot of time in the west, and then the goal will be to send them home as often as possible. I may indeed consider sending them to prep/boarding school in Jamaica for a time. I have relatives who have done this with their teens, and its a good way to keep them straight.

Quote:In terms of knowledge of self, I recall not even knowing Bob Marley was mixed until my African friend who was reggae crazy brought this up in a casual discussion when I was in uni. I'd listened to Bob from time and I always thought Bob was a just light skinned cat with locks as there are many hues in Jamaica (just like Spragga Benz for instance).

That's the thing people don't realize, though: we (afro-descendants in the New World) come almost entirely from dark-skinned sub-saharan west african stock, and people with that kind of ancestry don't get fair skin like that without admixture from somewhere else.
A lot of afro-descendants prefer not to acknowledge this because it makes them uncomfortable, but it is what it is.

Post: #1294

This is complete sense.

I am from Jamaican / Trinidadian descent and I agree with this. I have a Jamaican passport and was born in the UK.

I am very clear on where I come from, I have visited both, but not to the extent I would like. I have 9 brothers and sisters (typical) who I have got to know in recent years. I agree, this makes it easier for me professionally - I'm not constantly trying to prove where I'm from (like some) and i have no conflicts in identity.

It has taken a while to get here though.

I know my Trini side better (mother) and they mostly live in New York/New Jersey in the US and also Toronto and other parts of Canada.

What shocked me was the animosity between African Americans and my family that they spoke of. I found it strange. they also suggested that professionally "Islanders" are far more successful, infact are successful. this is surely down to the education in the West Indies?

Do any of you have experience of this?

Post: #1295

(12-16-2015 07:12 AM)WarMachine Wrote:  What shocked me was the animosity between African Americans and my family that they spoke of. I found it strange. they also suggested that professionally "Islanders" are far more successful, infact are successful. this is surely down to the education in the West Indies?

Do any of you have experience of this?

That's strange. In the United States at least from my personal experience, African Americans usually have a good relationship with 'Island' blacks, it's moreso the Africans that we have beef with. You have a history of blacks from the West Indies such as Marcus Garvey, Harry Belafonte, and Stokely Carmichael who were key figures in the Civil Rights Movement in the U.S. When Bob Marley toured America (at the height of his fame), he opened for soul acts such as the Commodores and Stevie Wonder in efforts to reach black audiences.

I have known people from Jamaica, Trinidad, Barbados, etc. and never had a problem with them. They also intermarry a lot with African Americans from what I have seen.

Post: #1296

(12-16-2015 07:12 AM)WarMachine Wrote:  What shocked me was the animosity between African Americans and my family that they spoke of. I found it strange. they also suggested that professionally "Islanders" are far more successful, infact are successful. this is surely down to the education in the West Indies?

Do any of you have experience of this?

I've seen it, experienced it. Lots of intellectually dishonest people pretend it doesn't exist. It's group behavior.

As for West Indian education, yes. As far as i know, there's a lot of classism in the Islands. The higher up the scale, the better the education. Private school and top public schools in the Islands may lack the latest in technology, but higher level thinking and intellectual rigor are free.

But even at the low levels you'll find lots of people well informed people that have vocabularies and reasoning that would not be expected of the working class here.

Like Mutabaruka only went to a technical high school, but the command of language and his ability to persuade with simple arguments belie the sophistication. Effortlessly floating between the Queen's English and patois. Farrakhan does this as well, and it's no surprise that he is West Indian.





This is not one of his best, just an example.

In terms of professional achievement, immigrant mentality plus the racial buffer. The immigrant mentality is self explanatory, and typically disappears within a generation or two.

The buffer in America is that African and Caribbean blacks are "better" than the homegrown. Others think that, and so do foreign blacks. In NYC the Jamaicans were known as the black Jews. Because despite anti immigrant sentiments, most would prefer to live in a Latino or Arabian neighborhood over a black one. When cities gentrify, the look to the black hoods last.

You only need to go to Toronto to see Jamaicans treated like black Americans are treated. When you look at academic achievement it's even more apparent. A West Indian kid would do better going to a school in rough ass Brownsville over Jane Finch.

So what you see with Anglophone Caribbean blacks is breathing room. Ambition is not destroyed. It is realistic. Doctor, lawyer, accountant, engineer. Getting these sorts of jobs are not easy, but art, athletics, entertainment, social sciences, history and other disciplines. Those are not easy industries to get into and make living.

There is a lot of smugness on the foreign side. But the Americans are not immune. From lack of empathy, to a certain idea that "This is the only way you can be black"

Intermarriage notwithstanding, it's not nearly as rosy as folks want it to be.

WIA

Post: #1297

(12-15-2015 08:47 PM)Excelsior Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 05:06 PM)Apollo21 Wrote:  I'd say there's opportunity both inside the US and outside...
it's just that inside you better be prepared to stack the deck
and be very influential if you want top tier women to flock to you.

Contrast game can be stunningly effective...however you also need
a serious competitive advantage. A solid social network that weaves
across many different circles, activities and interests. Women have
to come to you either socially or professionally(and then socially:-)

In America, you have to play Monopoly to win. Outside the US, you just
have to show up and be a cool brother.

Well said.

As I noted, you can fight the good fight here, but it will take a lot more out of you. The bar is extraordinarily high, and even when you reach it you're facing relatively high odds of failure. It is simply multiple orders of magnitude more difficult for a non-stereotypical black male to level the sexual playing field here. The social circle game has to be intricately immaculate, the income higher, the displayed status (style, place of living, car, job, etc) higher, the verbal game tighter, the execution less flawed and closer to ruthless perfection.

Meanwhile, getting on that same level playing field abroad requires one to effectively skip most of the above and just be closer to themselves.

Knowing this, at some point, you start to ask yourself if the "opportunities" in the USA are really worth fighting for.

It's kind of like yin and yang...you only appreciate life outside the US when you've had to work so hard
and understand how to improve your game to dominate the sport.

Game in the States only works at the highest levels if women are coming to you because of your professional strategic position
and or social influence. Anything less and you truly do have a lot of barriers to overcome.

If I were in the States, I would tap into online game and the fitness community. Join crossfit communities, start a dating site,
and especially if I were a college student participate in athletics or high profile leadership opportunities.

Basically positions where you get can noticed and naturally interact with a lot of people...preferably a lot of educated,
fit, high quality girls.

Post: #1298

(12-16-2015 07:12 AM)WarMachine Wrote:  What shocked me was the animosity between African Americans and my family that they spoke of. I found it strange. they also suggested that professionally "Islanders" are far more successful, infact are successful. this is surely down to the education in the West Indies?

Do any of you have experience of this?

Black immigrants are generally more academically and professionally successful than African-Americans. This phenomenon has been well documented, and is pretty easy to observe as well - if you go to any elite American university and survey the black student population there, you will be guaranteed to find vastly higher proportion of kids who are migrants or the children of migrants (Jamaicans, Nigerians, Trinis, and Ghanaians are the most common) than their actual share of the US population would suggest. This comes down to cultural and educational factors.

As for the animosity, it definitely exists. I grew up hearing relatives either complain about how African-Americans allegedly under-capitalized on opportunities in America or abused them for capitalizing more (i.e. doing better in school, getting better jobs, etc). I've seen a divide romantically too - there are plenty of migrants and the children of migrants who won't date black american women, for example, because of the distance between their outlooks, and I've heard black American women talk about how Caribbean men should be avoided because they're too "old school" and have expectations of their partners that aren't in line with what your typical African-American woman wants/expects to be.

Post: #1299

deleted, see below

Post: #1300

WIA said: "This is the only way you can be black"

I just wanted to quote this part if I may. The idea that there is a "way" to be black has bothered me since I was a teenager - it promotes a follower mentality and one that doesn't allow for personal or individual growth (a primary point in this thread I think).

I feel this can hold back certain sections of black societies. It's almost like some believe we have had to become what others "expect". Hence well spoken brothas, people who choose not to use slang or certain dialect or dress a certain way are labelled as a sellout, or whatever term that's used. Surely we are stereotyping ourselves internally and not reaping very good results.

Yes, as generations go, it diminishes somewhat. But I can't feeling that potential is being wasted on expectancy. You can be an individual, speak or dress a certain way AND be empowered by your roots and culture.

I know this is slightly off topic, but I see it as completely related to the Game of which we speak.