Post: #76

Social circle game is probably the future of Game (if it isn't already the present or past). Too bad it requires at least a magnitude more investment than any other form of Game.

It's probably why black rappers make a big deal about their lifestyle - blacks got hit with feminism first. Heck, if I remember correctly, Game, in that sense of the word, came from the black community.

And I'm not black, so I'm not boasting about my own race here. Just giving props where credit is due.

Post: #77

(12-02-2015 02:17 PM)262 Wrote:  Social circle game is probably the future of Game (if it isn't already the present or past). Too bad it requires at least a magnitude more investment than any other form of Game.

It's probably why black rappers make a big deal about their lifestyle - blacks got hit with feminism first. Heck, if I remember correctly, Game, in that sense of the word, came from the black community.

And I'm not black, so I'm not boasting about my own race here. Just giving props where credit is due.

Online is the future. With the right pictures the results can be absolutely outstanding. We're talking something like 3+ lays per week in Western countries.

Post: #78

Quote:I'm a wedding photographer by trade, and do about 40 weddings every year, so I get to hear all of the stories about how people are meeting. It's all social circle. There are no second dates as such. The guys pull what I call an "inside job"; an orbiter for years, lurking under the radar. The wedding I'm currently editing? He's a very low-energy, personality-deficient 4 and she's a 7. Knew each other for ten years. Neighbours at college. If he want online and tried to get a FIRST date he'd be curled up in a corner listening to Enya and writing bad poetry before the week was over.

So true about the "inside job". I have been seeing this a lot lately among my friends getting married in their 30s.

Post: #79

(12-03-2015 01:45 PM)scallleywag Wrote:  

Quote:I'm a wedding photographer by trade, and do about 40 weddings every year, so I get to hear all of the stories about how people are meeting. It's all social circle. There are no second dates as such. The guys pull what I call an "inside job"; an orbiter for years, lurking under the radar. The wedding I'm currently editing? He's a very low-energy, personality-deficient 4 and she's a 7. Knew each other for ten years. Neighbours at college. If he want online and tried to get a FIRST date he'd be curled up in a corner listening to Enya and writing bad poetry before the week was over.

So true about the "inside job". I have been seeing this a lot lately among my friends getting married in their 30s.

That is beta-bucks. Hardly your competition. The guys playing that game have likely fucked less than 5 girls in their whole lives.

Post: #80

(12-03-2015 12:27 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 02:17 PM)262 Wrote:  Social circle game is probably the future of Game (if it isn't already the present or past). Too bad it requires at least a magnitude more investment than any other form of Game.

It's probably why black rappers make a big deal about their lifestyle - blacks got hit with feminism first. Heck, if I remember correctly, Game, in that sense of the word, came from the black community.

And I'm not black, so I'm not boasting about my own race here. Just giving props where credit is due.

Online is the future. With the right pictures the results can be absolutely outstanding. We're talking something like 3+ lays per week in Western countries.

Depends if you are strictly talking about getting notches or getting a relationship.

I have banged a lot of girls from online game, but there is an old adage on the forum here: "If you found her online you'll lose her online."

Social circle has an element of comfort, vetting, security, and preselection that insurmountably trumps anything you can work over on a complete stranger, especially one you met over the internet.

Women are driven by emotion as we all know, and the cold and contrived nature of the online dating and social media environment is so anti-serendipitous and anti-comfort building. Its more like a meat grinder than the organic and natural experience that dating is often expected to be. Because of this, the girls that will date someone online either have high shields and shitty expecations or are willing and open to meeting strange men out of either desperation or being too free-spirited for their own good and will continue to do so as long as it keeps being entertaining.

When you meet a person through friends there is a huge comfort and anti-flake factor because your social circle is counting on both of you to work out and not disappoint them, and just as well you both feel comfortable that the people you know, like, and trust have both openly told each of you that you'd be great for eachother so both of you go into it openly and optimistically. You feel like you already know eachother a little because you know the same people and they likely have already gushed about each of you to eachother. It's disarming and a lot of the frustrating bullshit that you normally have to put up with when gaming a fresh girl is blown away.

Think about it. When you meet a strange girl on the street, in the club, at the book store, you are just a rando swinging dick and need to break yourself into her world. Online dating is even worse because you are less than a rando swinging dick - you're just a number. A picture with a a series of text attached to it. If you want to build a relationship you need to gradually work yourself into her life. Social circle cuts all of that out. At that point, as long as you are attracted to eachother and have tolerable personalities then their is little reason why you can't date. Back in our grandparent's day that was almost exclusively how people dated eachother. They met through friends, family, or church.

Social circle always has and always will be the easiest and most reliable way to date.

Post: #81

(12-03-2015 06:06 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 12:27 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 02:17 PM)262 Wrote:  Social circle game is probably the future of Game (if it isn't already the present or past). Too bad it requires at least a magnitude more investment than any other form of Game.

It's probably why black rappers make a big deal about their lifestyle - blacks got hit with feminism first. Heck, if I remember correctly, Game, in that sense of the word, came from the black community.

And I'm not black, so I'm not boasting about my own race here. Just giving props where credit is due.

Online is the future. With the right pictures the results can be absolutely outstanding. We're talking something like 3+ lays per week in Western countries.

Depends if you are strictly talking about getting notches or getting a relationship.

I have banged a lot of girls from online game, but there is an old adage on the forum here: "If you found her online you'll lose her online."

Social circle has an element of comfort, vetting, security, and preselection that insurmountably trumps anything you can work over on a complete stranger, especially one you met over the internet.

Women are driven by emotion as we all know, and the cold and contrived nature of the online dating and social media environment is so anti-serendipitous and anti-comfort building. Its more like a meat grinder than the organic and natural experience that dating is often expected to be. Because of this, the girls that will date someone online either have high shields and shitty expecations or are willing and open to meeting strange men out of either desperation or being too free-spirited for their own good and will continue to do so as long as it keeps being entertaining.

When you meet a person through friends there is a huge comfort and anti-flake factor because your social circle is counting on both of you to work out and not disappoint them, and just as well you both feel comfortable that the people you know, like, and trust have both openly told each of you that you'd be great for eachother so both of you go into it openly and optimistically. You feel like you already know eachother a little because you know the same people and they likely have already gushed about each of you to eachother. It's disarming and a lot of the frustrating bullshit that you normally have to put up with when gaming a fresh girl is blown away.

Think about it. When you meet a strange girl on the street, in the club, at the book store, you are just a rando swinging dick and need to break yourself into her world. Online dating is even worse because you are less than a rando swinging dick - you're just a number. A picture with a a series of text attached to it. If you want to build a relationship you need to gradually work yourself into her life. Social circle cuts all of that out. At that point, as long as you are attracted to eachother and have tolerable personalities then their is little reason why you can't date. Back in our grandparent's day that was almost exclusively how people dated eachother. They met through friends, family, or church.

Social circle always has and always will be the easiest and most reliable way to date.

Perhaps comfort is the most important part of game ?

When you are just a stranger running cold approach or online game, you are one of thousands. When you are someone she knows, your competition is maybe 10-30 ? She will ALWAYS look first at the people she knows before considering other options.

I've started to believe some people might be better off if they want to get laid/girlfriend instead of cold approaching/online every day, go get a couple part time jobs where some hotties work. You don't even need some friend to introduce you, just be around chicks everyday and get to know them.

It's a scientific principle that people become more attracted the more often they see someone, exposure.

What happens in most of these times is the guy actually doesn't even try to get the girl, the girl just by proxy of being around a guy so much at work/school/social circle will have a growing attraction and start hitting on the guy.

As someone myself who completely sucks at online due to 80 percent looks, I am amazed when I think to high school or job type situations that some girls would become attracted to me when I literally ran 0 game.

Post: #82

In general, I agree with this thread: the second date is dead. My overall experience is very similar to yours.

However, my two best LTRs and lovers (including my current one) all come from cold approaches at live music gigs, followed by a few dates (>3) before sex. They were both HB7-8 in their early to mid 20s, hitting all the qualities that we often state here for a good relationship / wife candidate. Relevant to what is being discussed in this thread is that they are both intensely attracted to me from the very first meeting, and I could easily tell. My gut told me I could chill and take my time, not needing to escalate so fast. I did not feel like I would lose their attention otherwise, nor they would ever flake on me. There was a gradual physical escalation from day one though, like the good ol' days e.g:

- D1: making out at a date venue
- D2: making out at my place
- D3+: getting naked at my place -> full sex (might take several dates to get there but it was all in less than 2 weeks)

So with that, I'd advise not to rush it all the time and keep an eye for the (admittedly very rare) girls out there who are not quite like the usual Tinder whores you run into.

Post: #83

No problem in getting a second date here, though sex on the first date is still much more common. This is an old thread but a good one.

Post: #84

I always get 2nd dates, in fact, the past 3 years I have never been turned down once. I'm the one that's nexting due to: looks not as good in person, annoying, or flaky in general - I can't stand total airheads even if they're hot. 2nd date bangs are easy for me, esp with younger girls that might be afraid to go back to my place on the first date, or we scheduled like an hour date had two drinks made out and left. But I also dont push hard for SNL.

Second date they have no problem coming over pre or post-going out compared to the first. I often think today guys don't do the 'comfort' routines as they rush to the ONS. You're left with 3 possibilities after that:

1) You pushed to hard, she said no, she doesnt' want to see you again
2) You got her in bed, she feels slutty, she doesn't want to see you
3) You got her in bed, she likes you, she does want to see you again.

Post: #85

First date: first kiss.
Second date: first sex.
Third date: first sober sex.

Post: #86

Seems like I have to walk a fine line between pushing for sex so she doesn't see me as a pushover, and not doing it fast enough to where she feels like a slut. I'd rather keep a woman around for consistent sex, but I wonder if most women just do online dating for discrete sex and don't even consider a 2nd date.

Met a girl whose best friend was dating my best friend. Tried for the bang the first date, she said she doesn't do that on the first night. Tried again for the second date, she went for it. Eventually I lost interest, but up to that point she was always attentive, never flaky.

More recently, met up with a girl from OKC. Started with coffee, then we bounced to a flea bargain, then to a bar. I tried to create sexual tension and do light touching throughout. During this she was eating up all my jokes and smiling most of the time we were together. We both had plans for later so we kissed and left. We've been texting during the week, but she flaked today and I have a gut feeling this isn't gonna pan out.

Post: #87

The title of this thread is a bit misleading...since the second date is only dead
if you screw up the first one or you pick the wrong girl to begin with.

Your focus should be on getting the girl to a specific emotional/mental state
not hoping when you can "see her again" the next time...

Also realize that some girls are simply not reliable dating material..they either are too busy
or too distracted to commit to plans and follow through.

You have to determine which scenario best reflects your situation:
1.The girl is a flake and cannot commit to a single thing.
2. You don't have searing chemistry
3. You do have searing chemistry but your schedules don't match most of the time

1 and 2 are probably the most common...especially if you don't have hot searing chemistry
and simply have a "nice" time..then a second date is honestly 50/50 at best...
especially when you're competing with her Netflix Game of Thrones quality time....

Post: #88

(12-06-2015 12:33 PM)Apollo21 Wrote:  The title of this thread is a bit misleading...since the second date is only dead
if you screw up the first one or you pick the wrong girl to begin with.

Your focus should be on getting the girl to a specific emotional/mental state
not hoping when you can "see her again" the next time...

Also realize that some girls are simply not reliable dating material..they either are too busy
or too distracted to commit to plans and follow through.

You have to determine which scenario best reflects your situation:
1.The girl is a flake and cannot commit to a single thing.
2. You don't have searing chemistry
3. You do have searing chemistry but your schedules don't match most of the time

1 and 2 are probably the most common...especially if you don't have hot searing chemistry
and simply have a "nice" time..then a second date is honestly 50/50 at best...
especially when you're competing with her Netflix Game of Thrones quality time....

Thats exactly what the thread is about. Nowadays seeing a girl more than once is far less common simply because girls are more distracted, less reliable, and less relationship-focused.

I can certainly attest to this.

I have had several dates in the past couple months since I've been in this new city. Many of them went well and several ended in sex. I've only seen 3 of those dates more than once. Even if I thought the date went well and we had a good time, had a lot in common, and had great rapport I still was unable to get her out again.

Now think about back when your grandparents dated. That bygone 1950's image of people dating eachother. If you went on one date and got along then there was no reason to not see eachother again. Girls wanted to have a man in their life, and men wanted to have a girl. Meeting someone that you were attracted to and got along with was all it took and you could basically get married after you establish that.

Courtship is fucked nowadays.

Post: #89

If you didn't make enough of an emotional connection with her she may not want to see you again. Maybe she's just a giant slut. Or she may have found someone better she is dating. Or she's bisexual and was just trying men for a night. Or, again, she didn't mean to fuck you on the first date and is now embarrassed by what happened as many of us have experienced.

It's not enough if you think the rapport was good. Just because a woman has more choices than in 1950 doesn't mean dating is fucked. The whole point of Game is being able to make adjustments to get women for either short or long-term relationships.

Post: #90

Exactly, you have to create a real emotional connection
to secure a second date...otherwise your chances are 50/50.

Sometimes you just need better intel to find out what's going on
emotionally with women...and then calibrate your interactions.

If you call her 2 days after your date and she doesn't respond
then you just keep following up with her until you get the truth.

If she gives you constant excuses about a second date and it's been more than
a month for example, then you either keep playfully inviting her out until she says yes
or you move on.

Eventually you'll figure out what kind of girl she really is and start to understand
the real reason behind her behavior.

Also remember that a second date is not your immediate goal. Your real goal is to continue
the conversation...and keep her engaged. I've had girls I've talked with for months before
we actually went out. If you can keep her responsive to you, then you'll get your second date..and third and forth etc

Post: #91

I went on my first date off of Tinder ever last week - a fluke, I normally get zero matches - and made a really good performance, good connection, strong conversation, etc. and then cavemanned her in my car and got a BJ. Texted her the next couple of days... no reply. I mean I know the score by now, I've hardened my heart to these things... but after a while it stung and I couldn't help it. There's no permanence to anything these days.

Post: #92

(12-08-2015 10:42 AM)civpro Wrote:  I went on my first date off of Tinder ever last week - a fluke, I normally get zero matches - and made a really good performance, good connection, strong conversation, etc. and then cavemanned her in my car and got a BJ. Texted her the next couple of days... no reply. I mean I know the score by now, I've hardened my heart to these things... but after a while it stung and I couldn't help it. There's no permanence to anything these days.

As a result of things like this, I hardly ever text them first after the date. I let them come to me. If they don't text, then so be it. However, you run the risk of losing girls who are into you but are waiting for you to lead post-date. This is the downside to this approach. However, if you've managed to get a BJ or/and the lay, it is up to them to definitely text first, so they don't feel like a raging slut. What do you care if they don't? You've scored, and on to the next. Which may sound merciless, but alas.

Getting a BJ in the car would be somewhat "seedy" to the hamster brain in retrospect, and she now feels like a slut, hence radio silence. Don't take it personal.

Post: #93

(12-08-2015 10:42 AM)civpro Wrote:  I went on my first date off of Tinder ever last week - a fluke, I normally get zero matches - and made a really good performance, good connection, strong conversation, etc. and then cavemanned her in my car and got a BJ. Texted her the next couple of days... no reply. I mean I know the score by now, I've hardened my heart to these things... but after a while it stung and I couldn't help it. There's no permanence to anything these days.

On one hand, she's probably disappearing because you cavemanned her and got a bj. On the other, do you really want to permanence with a girl who can get cavemanned into a bj in a car on a first date?

The player's conundrum....

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #94

Expecting a 2nd date off tinder is like expecting a girl to pay for dinner. Yeah, it could happen, but the Sixers could win the NBA this year too.

Post: #95

(12-08-2015 11:10 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(12-08-2015 10:42 AM)civpro Wrote:  I went on my first date off of Tinder ever last week - a fluke, I normally get zero matches - and made a really good performance, good connection, strong conversation, etc. and then cavemanned her in my car and got a BJ. Texted her the next couple of days... no reply. I mean I know the score by now, I've hardened my heart to these things... but after a while it stung and I couldn't help it. There's no permanence to anything these days.

On one hand, she's probably disappearing because you cavemanned her and got a bj. On the other, do you really want to permanence with a girl who can get cavemanned into a bj in a car on a first date?

The player's conundrum....

I personally don't look at a girl who puts out quick and easy as any sort of LTR material, but if her company was enjoyable and fooling around was fun then I'd certainly like to see her again.

It's always a bummer when you want to tap a girl more times then she'll let you.

Post: #96

(12-08-2015 11:10 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(12-08-2015 10:42 AM)civpro Wrote:  I went on my first date off of Tinder ever last week - a fluke, I normally get zero matches - and made a really good performance, good connection, strong conversation, etc. and then cavemanned her in my car and got a BJ. Texted her the next couple of days... no reply. I mean I know the score by now, I've hardened my heart to these things... but after a while it stung and I couldn't help it. There's no permanence to anything these days.

On one hand, she's probably disappearing because you cavemanned her and got a bj. On the other, do you really want to permanence with a girl who can get cavemanned into a bj in a car on a first date?

The player's conundrum....

This. All my long term dating came off social circle game. No way around it. If a girl is found online, you will lose her online. Exceptions apply.

Post: #97

Do you guys hold back the first time you bang a chick? I'm interested in keeping a girl around consistently now that winter is approaching. Not that I'm anything spectacular in bed, but I wonder if I'm too dominant/I know too much about sex the first time around, she might get the impression I'm not the long term boyfriend type.

Post: #98

I have never regretted pushing too hard. If the girl really likes you she will let you know when to slow down and will be turned on and respect your desire for her.

I have only ever regretted opening up too much too soon about myself and not pushing hard enough.

Post: #99

(12-12-2015 01:50 PM)Travesty Wrote:  I have never regretted pushing too hard. If the girl really likes you she will let you know when to slow down and will be turned on and respect your desire for her.

I have only ever regretted opening up too much too soon about myself and not pushing hard enough.

Only regrets I have ever had was investing too much.

Post: #100

I think the answer to "is the first date dead" is a relative one.

It depends how the date was set up. If the date was set up through tinder, SA, or in some cases OKC or match, then, there's more of an expectation by the guy and the girl, of a hookup and first date bang. I know that I should almost always go for a first date bang when I've set it up through tinder or online. So, when it comes to online game, yes the first date is closer to being 'dead' than it is if you met and set up the date another way because it's either "first date bang or bust".

Dates set up though online have more of a connotation of hooking up than dates set up where you met the girl in a more traditional way.

Alternatively, I've had a number of dates I set up recently through girls I met through day game. Since you didn't meant the girl on a "hookup" site, I see that less of these day game girls are in a 'hookup on the first date' mentality. Some, of course, will be and escalate accordingly if so.

As always, it's a matter of calibration.

However, when I have tried to run my dates I set up with girls I met through day game the same way I run a tinder or online set-up date, in some cases I'm escalating and pushing too hard for her to get to my place. These day game girls are intrigued by me and want more comfort and the chance to get to know me better. The day game girls want to feel you out and it's more of an 'interview'

Many of these girls, from my experience, in their mind are only willing to do some touching and a kiss at the end of the night. If the date goes well, these day game set up dates will be willing to meet for a second date.

In the end, they're of course all women, no matter where you met them or set up the date. To me though, it seems girls you met through day game or a social circle have a bit of higher potential for second dates. At the same time, they mostly need to be played slower and a bit more 'traditional' on the first date.

These day game girls just must be calibrated differently than the ones met through hookup sites where the connotation of a hookup is already there.

I'm thinking I may have blown out a few potential quality girls that I dated as a result of meeting through day game because I ran those dates as if I met her on tinder, SA or OKC. It was too much for them.