(12-01-2015 07:37 AM)The Beast1 Wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if Russia starts using low yield nuclear weapons. That would clean up the mess rather quickly!
This will not happen, I've already quoted their military doctrine here, but still here we go again:
"Russia reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear and other types of weapons of mass destruction against it or its allies, and also in case of aggression against Russia with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is threatened."
12-01-2015 09:27 AM
Big Nilla
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Quote:But Russian President Vladimir Putin seems to be eyeing an even bigger victory. He called on the Assad government and the political wing of the YPG to unite. This has still not happened - at least not officially.
But Syrian Kurdish officials have said they are ready to work with anyone fighting ISIL, and anyone who works for a united, secular and democratic Syria.
Such an alliance would change the battlefield and the balance of power on the ground.
Pasha Erdogan has perhaps scored the greatest own goal ever.
Come back Lee Dixon, all is forgiven.
Kurds make only under 10% of the Syrian population. Most of them are Sunni. They don´t like to fight against other Sunnis. The Kurds in Irak for example cooperate with Turkey as both are Sunni.
Russia has a big problem in Syria. What happens when his enemies get Stinger rockets? Same stuff as in Afghanistan maybe even worse. Perfect situation for NATO to bleed Russia in a long and costly war.
NATO probably waits for the payback because of Ukraine. So difficult situation for Russia.
Most of Syria is Sunni how are they going to be dominated again other than through a genocide?
There was a chance that Russia could have done the job but it seems the fish was to big for them specially without a real army on the ground. Ideally some 1 million Iranian soldiers and 100k russian soldiers and things might work out.
Lol at the bad analysis, especially the bolded part. Also, Russians could easily make Americans, Turks, and Saudis bleed in Syria, Turkey, Afghanistan, and Yemen via proxies... perhaps Iraq, too.
The only difference between Putin and Erdogan is that Putin is blonde. Both are egoistic, self centered, and not willing to back down. However I see Putin is very much loved on this forum, Russia's military capabilities are grossly exagerated due to love for Putin by some members here. There is no way the East bloc can take on the West, heck Russia would have a hard time taking on Turkey alone even if NATO wasn't involved. Their military budget is 1/10th of that of the USA, and only 2.5x higher than Turkey.
You can't be a superpower if your economy is commodity driven. Russia is in no way a superpower. The only undisputed superpower in this world is the United States of America whether we like it or not.
Not to mention was all those sanctions worth for a tiny land in Crimea, Russian people are 2x poorer compared to last year because of Rubles devaluation. I support Putins latest efforts, hopefully Russia will become even more cheaper for those of us earning $$$. More sanctions from the west, and a possible blockade of bosphorus by Turkey will be nail in the coffin.
12-01-2015 08:15 PM
SirTimothy
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(12-01-2015 08:15 PM)Newyorker Wrote: The only difference between Putin and Erdogan is that Putin is blonde. Both are egoistic, self centered, and not willing to back down. However I see Putin is very much loved on this forum, Russia's military capabilities are grossly exagerated due to love for Putin by some members here. There is no way the East bloc can take on the West, heck Russia would have a hard time taking on Turkey alone even if NATO wasn't involved. Their military budget is 1/10th of that of the USA, and only 2.5x higher than Turkey.
That's because Russia won't pay $400,000,000 a piece for a jet fighter that's still having problems.
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2015 08:46 PM by SirTimothy.)
(12-01-2015 08:15 PM)Newyorker Wrote: The only difference between Putin and Erdogan is that Putin is blonde. Both are egoistic, self centered, and not willing to back down. However I see Putin is very much loved on this forum, Russia's military capabilities are grossly exagerated due to love for Putin by some members here. There is no way the East bloc can take on the West, heck Russia would have a hard time taking on Turkey alone even if NATO wasn't involved. Their military budget is 1/10th of that of the USA, and only 2.5x higher than Turkey.
You can't be a superpower if your economy is commodity driven. Russia is in no way a superpower. The only undisputed superpower in this world is the United States of America whether we like it or not.
(12-01-2015 08:15 PM)Newyorker Wrote: The only difference between Putin and Erdogan is that Putin is blonde. Both are egoistic, self centered, and not willing to back down. However I see Putin is very much loved on this forum, Russia's military capabilities are grossly exagerated due to love for Putin by some members here. There is no way the East bloc can take on the West, heck Russia would have a hard time taking on Turkey alone even if NATO wasn't involved. Their military budget is 1/10th of that of the USA, and only 2.5x higher than Turkey.
That's because Russia won't pay $400,000,000 a piece for a jet fighter that's still having problems.
It's not that they won't, they can't . If they paid 400 million on a single jet, they'll have to feed on grass for the remainder part of the year.
Their economy relies on the high prices of commodity and its not diversified one bit, that's why they took a huge hit when oil and natural gas prices crashed.
Believe me if Putin had access to a military budget similar to that of USA, he would do more crazy shit compared to what we are doing.
12-01-2015 09:36 PM
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Killer Joe
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(12-01-2015 08:15 PM)Newyorker Wrote: The only difference between Putin and Erdogan is that Putin is blonde. Both are egoistic, self centered, and not willing to back down. However I see Putin is very much loved on this forum, Russia's military capabilities are grossly exagerated due to love for Putin by some members here. There is no way the East bloc can take on the West, heck Russia would have a hard time taking on Turkey alone even if NATO wasn't involved. Their military budget is 1/10th of that of the USA, and only 2.5x higher than Turkey.
You can't be a superpower if your economy is commodity driven. Russia is in no way a superpower. The only undisputed superpower in this world is the United States of America whether we like it or not.
Not to mention was all those sanctions worth for a tiny land in Crimea, Russian people are 2x poorer compared to last year because of Rubles devaluation. I support Putins latest efforts, hopefully Russia will become even more cheaper for those of us earning $$$. More sanctions from the west, and a possible blockade of bosphorus by Turkey will be nail in the coffin.
The US and well as the NATO militaries are hamstrung by bad policy and lack of clear-cut goals, which renders their numerical and technological advantages ineffective.
Russia knows her weaknesses and strengths and can project power despite these shortcomings. With only about 34 fighter jets they have achived in 2 months more than the US-led alliance did in more than a year. They'll never be able to take the US and NATO head on in direct warfare (which would almost certainly mean nuclear war), but they are masters of proxy wars and asymmetrical warfare and have gotten their way in Ukraine since they have significant economic leverage. Also, the intervention in Syria is a watershed event since they had never projected power so far from their borders since the end of the Cold War.
Crimea is strategically and symbolically important to the Russians since it houses almost their entire Black Sea Fleet and their population is about 96% ethnic Russian. Also it has an estimated 45 trillion cubic meters of gas reserves within 200 nautical miles of the Crimean shoreline. To have it fall into the hands of the hostile Ukrainans would be a deadly strategic mistake, so they'd rather risk temporary yet serious sanctions in order to keep their strategic edge.
A blockade of the Bosphorus by Turkey would be a significant escalation and considered an act of war, so they wouldn't do so unless they're ready for grave consequences.
Βασιλεὺς Βασιλέων Βασιλεύων Βασιλευόντων
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2015 10:53 PM by Killer Joe.)
12-01-2015 10:48 PM
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NATO foreign ministers have agreed to invite Montenegro to join the military alliance. The move is likely to lead to further deterioration in NATO’s relations with Russia, which sees the alliance’s expansion eastward as a threat to its national security.
"We congratulate Montenegro," NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told the meeting at the alliance headquarters in Brussels.
"This is the beginning of a very beautiful alliance," he added.
Montenegro’s parliament voted in September for a resolution to support the country’s accession to NATO. The resolution was passed by 50 votes out of 79, with the opposition calling for a national referendum on the issue.
12-02-2015 04:25 AM
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The Beast1
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(12-01-2015 08:15 PM)Newyorker Wrote: The only difference between Putin and Erdogan is that Putin is blonde. Both are egoistic, self centered, and not willing to back down. However I see Putin is very much loved on this forum, Russia's military capabilities are grossly exagerated due to love for Putin by some members here. There is no way the East bloc can take on the West, heck Russia would have a hard time taking on Turkey alone even if NATO wasn't involved. Their military budget is 1/10th of that of the USA, and only 2.5x higher than Turkey.
That's because Russia won't pay $400,000,000 a piece for a jet fighter that's still having problems.
Agreed, much like education military hardware is one of those "throwing money at the problem doesn't make it better" .
I'd argue the quality of said Russian hardware is on par or better than what we have as Americans for a 1/5 of the price. I'd hazard to guess there is very little waste in the Russian military machine.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2015 04:29 AM by The Beast1.)
(12-02-2015 04:25 AM)Nineteen84 Wrote: Montenegro’s parliament voted in September for a resolution to support the country’s accession to NATO. The resolution was passed by 50 votes out of 79, with the opposition calling for a national referendum on the issue.
NATO membership would never pass on the referendum, there were posts on this forum about massive protests that were violently shut down, but the betrayers don't give a shit as always.
Yep, poor Montenegrians were violently silenced and pushed into the NATO machine to serve as cannon fodder. At least it's better to go out with a bang like that instead of like Croatia, where I don't recall any major protests or unrest.
(12-01-2015 08:15 PM)Newyorker Wrote: The only difference between Putin and Erdogan is that Putin is blonde. Both are egoistic, self centered, and not willing to back down. However I see Putin is very much loved on this forum, Russia's military capabilities are grossly exagerated due to love for Putin by some members here. There is no way the East bloc can take on the West, heck Russia would have a hard time taking on Turkey alone even if NATO wasn't involved. Their military budget is 1/10th of that of the USA, and only 2.5x higher than Turkey.
That's because Russia won't pay $400,000,000 a piece for a jet fighter that's still having problems.
Agreed, much like education military hardware is one of those "throwing money at the problem doesn't make it better" .
I'd argue the quality of said Russian hardware is on par or better than what we have as Americans for a 1/5 of the price. I'd hazard to guess there is very little waste in the Russian military machine.
I dont know about ground forces , but when it comes to airforce and the navy Russia is like a Fiat where US is a Ferrari. In terms of technology they werent even a match during the soviet era.
If having nukes makes you a superpower, Pakistan has some as well.
Russia is very very overrated just like other eastern bloc countries. People saying russia can make us bleed in a proxy war are dead wrong as well. Imagine US supplying FSA with stingers, the outcome would be the same as what happened to soviets in Afghanistan.
12-02-2015 05:22 AM
Foolsgo1d
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If you think US and NATO is so badass why then do we leave with our tails tucked behind from Iraq and Afghanistan? Oh yeah, rules of war etc. Russia doesn't seem to have such rules except for some strict geneva convention articles but they're hardly going to give a shit with regards to terrorists.
What is the point of spending billions on brand new warplanes that cannot be used against a hidden enemy? WHy didn't they just take the old F18 and make it into a new one? Oh I know, because of profit margins. Free fucking money and whats to show for it? Are you going to engage Russia and China in the skies for all but 2-3 days then the nukes start falling?
Meanwhile your citizens cannot even get adequate medical assistance without being fucked over by insurance, hospitals and the government. But wait guys! We have a couple thousand top of the line fighter jets we can use for a few hours before someone pushes that big red button!
This Russia v Us v China comparison is such bullshit I sometimes can't be arsed reading about it.
(12-01-2015 08:15 PM)Newyorker Wrote: The only difference between Putin and Erdogan is that Putin is blonde. Both are egoistic, self centered, and not willing to back down. However I see Putin is very much loved on this forum, Russia's military capabilities are grossly exagerated due to love for Putin by some members here. There is no way the East bloc can take on the West, heck Russia would have a hard time taking on Turkey alone even if NATO wasn't involved. Their military budget is 1/10th of that of the USA, and only 2.5x higher than Turkey.
That's because Russia won't pay $400,000,000 a piece for a jet fighter that's still having problems.
Agreed, much like education military hardware is one of those "throwing money at the problem doesn't make it better" .
I'd argue the quality of said Russian hardware is on par or better than what we have as Americans for a 1/5 of the price. I'd hazard to guess there is very little waste in the Russian military machine.
I dont know about ground forces , but when it comes to airforce and the navy Russia is like a Fiat where US is a Ferrari. In terms of technology they werent even a match during the soviet era.
If having nukes makes you a superpower, Pakistan has some as well.
Russia is very very overrated just like other eastern bloc countries. People saying russia can make us bleed in a proxy war are dead wrong as well. Imagine US supplying FSA with stingers, the outcome would be the same as what happened to soviets in Afghanistan.
Actually Russia newer stopped bleeding for 100 years. I get it that some love Russian women. There is a theory that having sex or relationships with women from a country makes one more loyal to that country.
The thing is that Russia seems to be one of the worst countries for locale males. The gap between the life expectancy of males and females speaks for itself.
Now people in Russia don´t get tasty fruits from Turkey and will not see much sun in their vacations.
The number of combat planes show that Russia is far behind. Ad to that the stealth technology. Things don´t look good for Russia at all.
I am for balance of power. Nato specially US seems to have to much power lately that turns them easier to the dark side but Russia is relatively limited for that job.
12-02-2015 07:30 AM
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(12-02-2015 07:30 AM)Bill Wrote: The number of combat planes show that Russia is far behind. Ad to that the stealth technology. Things don´t look good for Russia at all.
Could you explain a little more in depth how you came to that conclusion?
(12-02-2015 07:24 AM)Nineteen84 Wrote: RUSSIA HAS PROOF THAT TURKEY IS FINAL DESTINATION FOR ISIS OIL – DEFENSE MINISTRY
"The US-led coalition has failed to intensify strikes on oil tankers and other IS oil infrastructure. Russia will send intelligence on potential targets to coalition members, assuming that a lack of intelligence may be the reason for their hesitance."
Troll level = Russian Ministry of Defence.
Also: "Turkish president Erdogan would not resign if his face was smeared with stolen Syria oil."
Even some MSMs are now running with this, e.g. BBC, Reuters. Russian Ministry of Defence will release new info on Turkey-ISIS ties every week or so, this is gonna be fun to watch. How long till we have a little military coup deposing Erdogan?
12-02-2015 10:20 AM
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