Post: #101

(11-25-2015 07:29 PM)redpillage Wrote:  Look, you're probably just some kid behind a keyboard somewhere....why do you insist on posting/participating here? What are you - a troll? I'm sure you have better things to do than waste your time here.

Looks like someone is a little out of his depth.

Post: #102

I don't think this thread is going in the direction the OP hoped for.

Post: #103

I've done a lot of traveling in the past few years, and while I enjoy traveling, different dating cultures, etc., I haven't found a spot I'd really like to relocate to permanently.

The language barrier is really the biggest hurdle. Do you know how much you can do with all that time it takes to learn a foreign language? You can get an amazing physique and start multiple businesses. You can pursue a hobby that might turn into something more than just a hobby.

And if you did invest all that time into improving your life, instead of learning the language and getting used to the foreign culture, you might not actually see America/the west as all that bad. America is a good place for the dudes in the top 1 percent of the SMV bracket. If you're really kicking ass in life, I don't see a real need to permanently relocate. 2 week to 2 month trips would probably keep me satisfied.

The amount of time it takes to even get to an upper intermediate level of conversational fluency is enormous. Even four hours a day of study for a year will only get you so far in a language such as Russian. Even if you get "fluent" it will take many years to get even close to your ability you have in English. Those four hours of intense study could be devoted to a lot of other areas in life. It's a big decision on how to allocate your time, and what goals in life you want to pursue. And ultimately, to really learn a language you truly have to immerse. It's an enormous undertaking that has been minimized by "polyglot" language hackers who define fluency as being able to carry out basic conversations. Your ability to connect with people at the basic level of language proficiency would make it hard to really integrate into the new culture.

I couldn't live anywhere in asia. No matter how much you learn the language and culture, if you're caucasian, you'll always be a foreigner. Asia is a great place to travel and "mini retire" to, but permanent relocation? And getting truly fluent in Chinese as an native english speaker....I'd rather be a body builder who does DJ-ing and music on the side, and game girls at the beach. It would take a lot less time and effort, and I would enjoy the rewards much more.

I will say, that of all the places I've been to in the world, Central Europe (and europe in general) are extremely pleasant. With nice, pedestrian friendly medieval style city centers, cafes, low crime, cute and thin white girls traipsing about, it's a real good spot. The english proficiency in certain cities is very high, and overall it's just nice. Slovenia, Hungary, Croatia, Slovakia, small cities in western germany. If I ever relocate it would probably be there, but in the end I probably won't.

I also like British chicks (contrarian view here) so the UK would be another spot. And I'd only have to get used to a few different words such as lorry, trousers, the frequent use of the word "lovely", and other expressions that I actually find at times endearing and off-putting. For some reason I find the word "spunk" for "cum" to be a turn off.

Post: #104

(11-26-2015 08:42 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  I don't think this thread is going in the direction the OP hoped for.

Actually everyone else has been extremely productive - so no issues on my end.

Post: #105

I also chuckle at the dudes who want to move to Russia simply for the women or its conservative culture. First of all, I have yet to meet any non-native Russian speakers who speak the language at even a conversational level. They've all been laughably bad. One guy I know was a Russian studies major from an Ivy leaugue school. He spoke some sort of caricatured Russian that you often hear in Hollywood movies. I can only imagine the guys who study on their own. No matter how good you think you may be, you probably suck. Shit, I thought I was decent in french until I traveled to Paris and got my ass handed to me over there. And that's one of the easier languages! Dudes here think they did Rosetta Stone or duolingo for a couple of months and all of a sudden they're Dostoyevsky. You're only going to coast on English for so long in Russia.

Second, you won't really be welcome in Russia. It's a very specific culture where things like corruption and law-breaking are commonplace. You also won't be able to really connect with anyone on a meaningful level because that requires a good level of the language. Sorry to be a party pooper.

Post: #106

(11-26-2015 11:40 AM)Tenerife Wrote:  The amount of time it takes to even get to an upper intermediate level of conversational fluency is enormous. Even four hours a day of study for a year will only get you so far in a language such as Russian. Even if you get "fluent" it will take many years to get even close to your ability you have in English.

Yup, that is a very good point. I speak three languages fluently and in the past 25 years not a day has gone by when I didn't spend time on improving my vocabulary or get on top of some grammar. It's not getting any easier as I get older, that's for sure.

Another reason to start learning languages early in life as it opens a lot of doors that would otherwise remain shut for life.

Post: #107

(11-26-2015 12:24 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  I also chuckle at the dudes who want to move to Russia simply for the women or its conservative culture. First of all, I have yet to meet any non-native Russian speakers who speak the language at even a conversational level. They've all been laughably bad. One guy I know was a Russian studies major from an Ivy leaugue school. He spoke some sort of caricatured Russian that you often hear in Hollywood movies. I can only imagine the guys who study on their own. No matter how good you think you may be, you probably suck. Shit, I thought I was decent in french until I traveled to Paris and got my ass handed to me over there. And that's one of the easier languages! Dudes here think they did Rosetta Stone or duolingo for a couple of months and all of a sudden they're Dostoyevsky. You're only going to coast on English for so long in Russia.

Second, you won't really be welcome in Russia. It's a very specific culture where things like corruption and law-breaking are commonplace. You also won't be able to really connect with anyone on a meaningful level because that requires a good level of the language. Sorry to be a party pooper.

By all means - no reason to hide or sugar coat the realities on the ground. I'm now in my fourth year of studying Spanish on a daily basis and am only now getting to a level where I understand about 90% of what is being said if they speak slowly (I have pretty shitty memory naturally). At the gym when I overhear dudes shooting the shit with each other this quickly drops to about 30% to 40% max I'm sorry to say. That's after thousands of hours of study, constant exposure to Latin and Spanish telenovelas, reading Spanish language newspaper/magazines, conversing with people every day. You keep learning and learning and constantly you trip over new words that you never even seen before. Often I feel like Sisyphus pushing that rock up the hill.

Post: #108

Refugees languish in Spain with dreams of moving north.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/92d196c2-50ba-...z3sd4m4e6C

Post: #109

(11-26-2015 02:58 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Refugees languish in Spain with dreams of moving north.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/92d196c2-50ba-...z3sd4m4e6C

Quote:"Which way to Germany?" one man asked when he reached the square with a group of friends.

Germany right now:

Post: #110

I am from Europe. I speak English, Spanish, Dutch, German and some French. Just hope that Europe can save itself. Still 'then' it will be better than many parts in the world. Relocation in other European countries always possible. Feel quite blessed with this.

Post: #111

(11-26-2015 04:36 PM)Lime Wrote:  I am from Europe. I speak English, Spanish, Dutch, German and some French. Just hope that Europe can save itself. Still 'then' it will be better than many parts in the world. Relocation in other European countries always possible. Feel quite blessed with this.

This is something that should be stated more. Europe is a broad continent with a variety of countries, cities and regions. Some of these areas have relatively limited exposure to the progressive, multicultural and ethnically/religious diverse cesspools that most large western European cities succumbed too. Eastern Europe may eventually turn into western Europe. But a city like Warsaw has got another 40-50 years till it's like a London or Paris (if it ever becomes like that). Enough time to live, work, have a family and die.

Most Eastern Europe states have medium to long term sanity in them.

I also recommend smaller cities and even towns/villages in Western European states. Unless the EU manages to install progressive policies /migrants in every region across western Europe, there will be enclaves filled with conservative/ethnic Europeans.

One personal antidote of mine, is a small town that my ex girlfriend grew up in, called Bad kissingen in Northern Bavaria. It's a larger town of 20,000. Median age is probably 50. A retirement town of sorts. Famous for it's spas. It was an amazing experience for me. I'd lived in constant "multicultural" areas all my life. Going to a place that was 99% ethnically German was bliss. The friendly people, sense of community, clean streets, safety. It was like I had just entered Mayberry and hadn't seen Andy yet.

It definitely portrayed the truth and beauty homogenous lands/cities have, in my opinion.

Basically, get out of those cities. Return to a country esque life. It's not as exciting, your notch count will suffer, jobs pay less (usually). But the cost of living is cheaper, the quality of women is higher, useful hobbies can be discovered more easily (like growing food or carpentry); and if a nationalist uprising was ever to occur, it will begin in these small cities/communities that surround the modern day Sodoms of Europe.

Post: #112

(11-26-2015 12:24 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  I also chuckle at the dudes who want to move to Russia simply for the women or its conservative culture. First of all, I have yet to meet any non-native Russian speakers who speak the language at even a conversational level. They've all been laughably bad. One guy I know was a Russian studies major from an Ivy leaugue school. He spoke some sort of caricatured Russian that you often hear in Hollywood movies. I can only imagine the guys who study on their own. No matter how good you think you may be, you probably suck. Shit, I thought I was decent in french until I traveled to Paris and got my ass handed to me over there. And that's one of the easier languages! Dudes here think they did Rosetta Stone or duolingo for a couple of months and all of a sudden they're Dostoyevsky. You're only going to coast on English for so long in Russia.

Second, you won't really be welcome in Russia. It's a very specific culture where things like corruption and law-breaking are commonplace. You also won't be able to really connect with anyone on a meaningful level because that requires a good level of the language. Sorry to be a party pooper.

I appreciate your sentiment of natural scepticism, as assimilating to a new culture is indeed difficult.

The things that make you chuckle at dudes who want to relocate to EE:
1. very difficult language, one cannot connect with locals on a meaningful level without native language fluency.
2. a westerner is not welcome.
3. corruption and law-breaking.

1. Yes, well obviously but this point is not unique to Russia though and applies to every country. I am worse than docile at speaking Russian and yes some doors are closed. This is the same if a foreigner was to move to my native country, many opportunities to certain elements of society would be closed at the beginning.

But cmon it's 2015. Even in countries with very low english-speaking proficiency such as Russia, Brasil, Thailand, you will find ample amount of next level local people who speak good English. After all, English is the international language, most of the educated cool types are either curious enough in the outside world to have learnt english or they have spent time living abroad thereby acquiring decent english. Yes, you will have to search for them sometimes, such as going to certain events or hanging with certain crowds etc but it's not too hard in you're in a mid-sized city.

2. I disagree. Generally speaking I think westerners are very welcome, I certainly have felt included by locals, they've welcomed me into their world, especially if you display signs that you are truly interested in their culture.

3. Well, obviously, most developing nations are more corrupt and lawless than developed nations, so what.

I have a different view than yours. I actually think that foreigners are viewed in a positive light, and this is accentuated if the foreigner has money.

Post: #113

I have been too many countries and the people have all been nice, I am tourist so there was no need to hate me. So visiting a small town in Germany might be lovely, but how would they feel if you moved there? How would they feel if a large amount of "foreigners" moved there, I am sure it would iritate them.

So for those guys thinking that is Europe is one country and you will be viewed the same, you are delusional. As a Brit, someone who was born there, lived there and worked there. I can tell you the Brits aren't happy about the influx of EE citizens rushing to their shores. English people don't even like Irish people, so what do you think they say about the French, Germans and Spaniards. Let alone the Muslims, with their covered faces and mosques.

Brits still go on about the WWII and how they "beat" Ze Germans all by themselves.

More than once did I encounter rude people on the phone, who thought I was American. Once I explained I was Canadian, the response was much better.

I was talking to a friend of mine last week, who lives in Iceland. I read recently that they have a large Polish community there, I asked my friend what the Icelandic people think of them. With out hesitation, he said they hate them. However, they have to tolerate them because they work hard and do jobs Icelandic people won't do. Hmmm, now where have I heard that before!

One thing about Canada, it is a immigrant country. So no one can tell me go back to my "country", because everyone is a immigrant. Not including the native Indian of course.

So to the OP, I would honestly stay in your home country. It has a lot of good things going for it and unless you are going to make double your income elsewhere, then I do not see the point.

Post: #114

(11-25-2015 07:29 PM)redpillage Wrote:  Look, you're probably just some kid behind a keyboard somewhere over in Canada and this will be my last response to you.

(11-25-2015 07:29 PM)redpillage Wrote:  But if you have nothing productive to participate and say that this thread 'makes no sense' then why do you insist on posting/participating here? What are you - a troll? I'm sure you have better things to do than waste your time here.

Post: #115

(11-26-2015 08:30 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(11-25-2015 07:29 PM)redpillage Wrote:  Look, you're probably just some kid behind a keyboard somewhere....why do you insist on posting/participating here? What are you - a troll? I'm sure you have better things to do than waste your time here.

Looks like someone is a little out of his depth.

A 1Rep poster calling a 100 Rep poster a troll?

Post: #116

You can't judge the course of history from a few dozen internet articles and some commentary from bystanders.

Europe has serious demographic issues in low end neighbourhoods, and big cities will be less safe to get around in without private transport.
The future is less bright than it was for ordinary people. The social atmosphere will become more tense, defensive, suspicious, and competitive; women will clam up even more.
Men and women will face greater risks to their person unless they can afford to insulate themselves from the ghetto and its emanations.
This move towards insulation will make it harder to socialise, and make the rich more exclusionary.

But to be honest, these already sound like the conditions that prevail in Brazil, and Latin America in general. If the locals can survive there, Europeans can survive in their new Brazilianised Europe.

Post: #117

In the FSU, people would like to do the opposite - escape to the West.
People mainly try to emigrate to Canada, which is the easiest.
You have to be born and live here to understand it.

Post: #118

(11-27-2015 06:13 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

(11-26-2015 08:30 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(11-25-2015 07:29 PM)redpillage Wrote:  Look, you're probably just some kid behind a keyboard somewhere....why do you insist on posting/participating here? What are you - a troll? I'm sure you have better things to do than waste your time here.

Looks like someone is a little out of his depth.

A 1Rep poster calling a 100 Rep poster a troll?

Actually, redpillage, in his wisdom, was calling rudebwoy a troll.

But evidently, your point still stands.

(11-26-2015 10:49 PM)Jungle Wrote:  

(11-26-2015 12:24 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  I also chuckle at the dudes who want to move to Russia simply for the women or its conservative culture. First of all, I have yet to meet any non-native Russian speakers who speak the language at even a conversational level. They've all been laughably bad. One guy I know was a Russian studies major from an Ivy leaugue school. He spoke some sort of caricatured Russian that you often hear in Hollywood movies. I can only imagine the guys who study on their own. No matter how good you think you may be, you probably suck. Shit, I thought I was decent in french until I traveled to Paris and got my ass handed to me over there. And that's one of the easier languages! Dudes here think they did Rosetta Stone or duolingo for a couple of months and all of a sudden they're Dostoyevsky. You're only going to coast on English for so long in Russia.

Second, you won't really be welcome in Russia. It's a very specific culture where things like corruption and law-breaking are commonplace. You also won't be able to really connect with anyone on a meaningful level because that requires a good level of the language. Sorry to be a party pooper.

I appreciate your sentiment of natural scepticism, as assimilating to a new culture is indeed difficult.

The things that make you chuckle at dudes who want to relocate to EE:
1. very difficult language, one cannot connect with locals on a meaningful level without native language fluency.
2. a westerner is not welcome.
3. corruption and law-breaking.

1. Yes, well obviously but this point is not unique to Russia though and applies to every country. I am worse than docile at speaking Russian and yes some doors are closed. This is the same if a foreigner was to move to my native country, many opportunities to certain elements of society would be closed at the beginning.

Jungle has offered a carefully detailed opinion in a respectful manner, while only overlooking some aspects of grammar and adhering to others, and as such, I'm pleased that he has taken the time to contribute to this thread.

I think he raises some good points, but I don't think he's taken into consideration the long term versus the short term perspectives.

(11-26-2015 10:49 PM)Jungle Wrote:  But cmon it's 2015. Even in countries with very low english-speaking proficiency such as Russia, Brasil, Thailand, you will find ample amount of next level local people who speak good English. After all, English is the international language, most of the educated cool types are either curious enough in the outside world to have learnt english or they have spent time living abroad thereby acquiring decent english. Yes, you will have to search for them sometimes, such as going to certain events or hanging with certain crowds etc but it's not too hard in you're in a mid-sized city.

If you're on vacation, this opinion has merit. And to be candid, you're on vacation for first two years anywhere, including college.

However, once you pass the three year mark and are starting to ask yourself the inevitable question, "is this what I want the rest of my life to look like?", you won't find much comfort in the fact that there are English speaking people available...but only if you seek them out.

In fact, that's not really the problem. The problem is that living in a city where your functional vocabulary is somewhere between a 2 year-old's and a 5 year-old's, your ability to look yourself in the mirror without descending into either self-hatred or male hamster is going to be non-existent.

You'll find yourself constantly making excuses to yourself and to others about why you can't communicate with the grocery checker and the local FoodMart.

(11-26-2015 10:49 PM)Jungle Wrote:  3. Well, obviously, most developing nations are more corrupt and lawless than developed nations, so what.

Try living long term in a corrupt and lawless society and you'll get the answer to your question.

Post: #119

(11-27-2015 06:31 AM)dispenser Wrote:  You can't judge the course of history from a few dozen internet articles and some commentary from bystanders.

Europe has serious demographic issues in low end neighbourhoods, and big cities will be less safe to get around in without private transport.
The future is less bright than it was for ordinary people. The social atmosphere will become more tense, defensive, suspicious, and competitive; women will clam up even more.
Men and women will face greater risks to their person unless they can afford to insulate themselves from the ghetto and its emanations.
This move towards insulation will make it harder to socialise, and make the rich more exclusionary.

But to be honest, these already sound like the conditions that prevail in Brazil, and Latin America in general. If the locals can survive there, Europeans can survive in their new Brazilianised Europe.

In the Americas (Brazil, USA, etc) the societies are far more multiracial than in Europe, but the populations share religious affiliation and the peoples mix freely in-between (even though there's definitive resistance by a small few).

In Europe, the differences between the Native and Middle Easterners are religious and cultural. Mixing up is far more challenging as religion is dogmatic. Europeans are naturally hostile to outsiders, and the Muslim faith is naturally segregationist and reactionary. Therein lies the problem.

If the OP wants to escape the west, he needs to ask himself does he want a multicultural or a multiracial society - the two are distinctly different.

Argentina and Uruguay are the only mono-racial nations on this side of the Atlantic I can think of the top of my head. The rest are all multiracial, but still mostly monocultural (but not all).

Russia would be a step back, it's more corrupt than most Latin Countries, the weather is terrible even in the nicest parts, there's a rampant culture of drug abuse and alcoholism. The language is easy to learn if you already know Slavic, but not much if you're starting from a romance language. Housing isn't cheap in the major cities. And the country itself is actually very multicultural, even if around these parts its a fact largely glossed over (Russia is only 70% ethnic Russian) and rapidly falling in respect to the others there.

Eastern Europe hasn't really impressed, especially post recession. It's becoming more westernized, without the western incomes and job prospects, strong rule of law, and efficient medical systems. The shrinking population means its economies are essentially contracting. But that may not be bad for the OP since he's got an online income. However he'll have to think about opportunities for his kids for the future.

If the OP wants to live in a white society with a mono culture that is not western in the traditional sense, Argentina and Uruguay are the only ones I can think of.

If he's willing to live in a multiracial society then the world opens up. He'll have the whole Latin America to choose from and that's a continent on the pickup (even with a few hiccups along).

There's no real guarantee the country he chooses will be a long term success, things can vastly improve or turn sideways in a flash even in what seems like a paradise.

Post: #120

(11-27-2015 12:06 AM)LeBeau Wrote:  

(11-25-2015 07:29 PM)redpillage Wrote:  Look, you're probably just some kid behind a keyboard somewhere over in Canada and this will be my last response to you.

(11-25-2015 07:29 PM)redpillage Wrote:  But if you have nothing productive to participate and say that this thread 'makes no sense' then why do you insist on posting/participating here? What are you - a troll? I'm sure you have better things to do than waste your time here.

   

Post: #121

^

Post: #122

(11-27-2015 11:24 AM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  (...)

These are some good points. Things will be pretty raw in Europe for a few decades.

I'm inclined to think that European-based terrorism will eventually degenerate into organised crime. They already have the know-how, the networks, the loyalty.
How long will it take for them to start to look at their funds and think, "Maybe I can just buy a garden of houris now, and blow myself up later"?
Suicide bombing is essentially an expression of frustration. Mostly sexual. What happens if they can scratch their itches?

On the subject of settling outside Europe, the place that interests me most is Singapore.
Multi-racial, unlikely to go to war, Draconian law enforcement, stable, English speaking, business friendly.
I like Hong Kong, but its days are numbered.
The other countries in East Asia have their merits, but have extremely insular populations. You'd always be the stranger.

Then there's war-risk factors. China may eventually have a conflict with the USA, and white people would be under extreme scrutiny, being American until proven innocent.
If they try to take Vladivostok, it would be a similar story.
Korea has a refugee crisis waiting to happen just north of the border.
Taiwan may be seized. Etc.

Post: #123

(11-27-2015 12:48 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

(11-27-2015 12:06 AM)LeBeau Wrote:  

(11-25-2015 07:29 PM)redpillage Wrote:  Look, you're probably just some kid behind a keyboard somewhere over in Canada and this will be my last response to you.

(11-25-2015 07:29 PM)redpillage Wrote:  But if you have nothing productive to participate and say that this thread 'makes no sense' then why do you insist on posting/participating here? What are you - a troll? I'm sure you have better things to do than waste your time here.

Post: #124

OP, you're greatly overstimating the chances of Podemos making it into government, they've been down on the polls for the past 6 months or so:

http://www.eldiario.es/politica/Ciudadan...55275.html

Basically, Podemos peaked a long time ago, they were lucky with the timing of the municipal elections, which allowed them to obtain the local governments of Madrid and Barcelona. Despite their support for feminism, LGBTXBBQ issues, refugees and open borders they have actually done a few positive things for their cities already such as reducing the number of evictions and cuting public spending on unnecessary privileges that the former governments were abusing. I personally see them as a temporary, lesser evil to be honest, although I hope Ciudadanos will take over in the general elections and form a coalition government with conservatives in PP.

Also, I'm sorry for your loss but frankly I think you're overreacting. As a Spaniard who's lived abroad for the past few years, I often miss how chill my native country is. The quality of life is great and if you've already got a wife and run a profitable online business you're basically set. Many 2nd and 3rd tier Spanish cities tick all your requirements (I'm guessing you're based instead in Madrid or Barcelona). Since you're location independent, my advice would be to relocate somewhere else (think Granada, Sevilla, Cádiz...) for a month or so just to test the waters of what life there would be like before you decide to move permanently.

Post: #125

I understand why Russia is worshipped on this forum, but aside from teaching english, being a student or having some special niche that is required in Russia. You simply are not going to get your foot through the door. Plus i've seen plenty of expats in Moscow from the Anglosphere who just stick with their own people, sometimes bringing girlfriends from their native country with them too.

Corruption is not really going to effect you in Russia unless you are opening up your own business and registering it within the country. And still most of the corruption you hear about is usually petty, annoying stuff. You won't get stopped or harassed by the police asking you for bribes, if you are America or British. As for alcoholism and drug addiction, I honestly haven't seen this but then again I have mostly stuck to the big cities. Also I can't see how this will affect an expat. I find Moscow to be very safe in comparison to American and British cities, although the exterior doesn't give that impression.

All in all Russia does have a lot of benefits for a westerner, but I wouldn't put it on a pedestal.