Post: #1

Estrogens and Pthalates are a man's enemy. They can disrupt our hormonal state and lower our testosterone. Most of you already know how important testosterone is for healthy male sexuality and happiness. In the modern world we're exposed to endless sources of estrogen or estrogen-like molecules. If you do a little research, you'll be horrified at how prevalent it is. You're not going to be able to completely stop your exposure, but hopefully with this guide you can seriously decrease it.

I started caring about my estrogen exposure after I was diagnosed with low testosterone. I switched my diet to low carb and high fat/cholesterol, which the body needs for testosterone production. I got tested again and still my testosterone levels were below normal. As a last ditch effort, I tried eliminating most of my exposure to estrogens before starting up a TRT regimen. I went to an endocrinologist a few months later, and to my surprise, my testosterone went from 358 to 652. It was tested in the morning each time.





I can't be completely sure the increase in Test is due to limiting exposure, but it's the only change I made that I can think of. So here's what I did to limit my exposure:

Food/drink
I use a Berkey filter for all my drinking and cooking water needs. It removes not only some of the more harmful chemicals, but can also remove most pathogens or cysts in emergencies. They're a bit expensive, but last a lifetime and make for a stylish kitchen centerpiece. Avoid drinking bottled water. Get a BPA-free plastic bottle and refill it when you can. If you're a coffee drinker, avoid brewers which expose hot water to plastic. I've used a stainless steel camping percolator to good effect.

Some foods are inherently estrogenic. Soy is a phytoestrogen and soybean oil is prevalent in almost every sauce or processed condiment you can think of. Read the labels and avoid anything with soybean oil. Almost all mayonnaise has this. Hops are also a phytoestrogen, so avoid IPAs and stick with stouts when you're having beer.

Fatty foods, especially dairy usually contain high levels of phthalates. Eat organic food whenever possible, as certified organic products don't allow the use of pthalate-containing pesticides. Pthalates are an endocrine disruptor which may be linked to cancer, diabetes, insulin sensitivity, and low testosterone[1,2,3,4]. If you need to reheat fatty foods, put them in a glass or ceramic container and cover with a paper towel if using a microwave. Don't reheat in plastic containers or use saran wrap, as heating those plastics greatly increases the amount of pthalates that leech into the food. When buying cuts of meat, look for ones that are wrapped in wax paper over plastic wrap, if you can find them.

Eat broccoli, cauliflower, and kale whenever you can. They contain indole-3-carbinol which can help prevent estrogen from decreasing the production of testosterone.

Hygiene/Grooming
Many soaps, sunblocks, fragrances, shaving products, shampoos, conditioners, you name it, they contain parabens or phthalates. Use the Environmental Working Group skindeep website to search for the least harmful products: http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/. That site is a LIFE SAVER and super convenient! I just used it to pick out a decent cologne which amazon carries.

Alternatively, I use coconut oil as a shaving lotion and moisturizer and a base for a deodorant. For a deodorant, I mix 2 parts coconut oil with 1 part baking soda and 1-2 parts corn starch depending on how abrasive it is. I add 3 drops of 100% tea tree oil to every 1oz of deodorant mixture. I use a drop of tea tree oil, a natural astringent before and after shaving, and before bed. Just wet your face and hands, use an eyedropper to put a drop in your palm, rub them together, then smear on your face. My aunt also used TTO to treat rosacia.

If you make your own hygiene products, store them in a container that doesn't contain phthalates. I usually look for a container that's 3.4oz or less so I can also put them in my carry on. Avoid plastics with the recycling labels 3, and 7, they contain phthalates. Use ones with labels of 1,2, and 5.

Other:
Dust and vaccuum your house when it gets dusty. Plastics like window blinds break down over time into dust which contains phthalates, and can get into the lungs by breathing in dust.

Keep your liver healthy. Eat real food, and avoid binge drinking often. Consider drinking more green tea and taking an NAC supplement. Your liver helps regulate healthy hormone levels.

Final note:
You're not ever gonna eliminate 100% of your estrogen exposure. That shit is everywhere, including the drinking water supply and the dust produced from your car dashboard. Some situations, like being hooked up to IV you can't avoid. Don't get neurotic about it, just limit it as much as possible without making it a major inconvenience. If you've got some other methods for limiting exposure, please share.

Sources:
1) Hauser R, Meeker JD, Singh NP, et al.(March 2007). "DNA damage in human sperm is related to urinary levels of phthalate monoester and oxidative metabolites"Hum. Reprod. 22 (3): 688–95. doi:10.1093/humrep/del428. PMID 17090632

2) Stahlhut RW, van Wijngaarden E, Dye TD, Cook S, Swan SH (June 2007)."Concentrations of Urinary Phthalate Metabolites Are Associated with Increased Waist Circumference and Insulin Resistance in Adult U.S. Males". Environ. Health Perspect. 115 (6): 876–82. doi:10.1289/ehp.9882. PMC 1892109.PMID 17589594.11 April 2012 Uppsala Universitet (2012-04-11).

3) "High levels of phthalates can lead to greater risk for type-2 diabetes". Alphagalileo.org. Retrieved 2013-09-23.

4) Lopez-Carillo L., Hernandez-Ramirez R.U., Calafat A.M., Torres-Sanchez L., Galvan-Portillo M., Needham L.L., Ruiz-Ramos R., Cebrian M.E., (2010). “Exposure to phthalates and breask cancer risk in Northern Mexico.”

Post: #2

The Berkey Water Filter is great. I have used mine for around a year and it makes a difference. I can't taste the difference as well as others can as I'm used to it, but my water has a "sweet" taste to it now. The downside is that taking out all of the other minerals could leave you deficient if you don't have a proper diet.

Post: #3

Your test levels are well into the normal levels of variation and fluctuation.

Don't be suprised if you get your blood tested next week and it's back down to 400, or even 700.

Post: #4

This guide is what I was looking for a long time ! Thanks !

Post: #5

(11-25-2015 09:25 PM)LINUX Wrote:  Your test levels are well into the normal levels of variation and fluctuation.

Don't be suprised if you get your blood tested next week and it's back down to 400, or even 700.

What would you recommend?

Post: #6

(11-26-2015 10:14 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

(11-25-2015 09:25 PM)LINUX Wrote:  Your test levels are well into the normal levels of variation and fluctuation.

Don't be suprised if you get your blood tested next week and it's back down to 400, or even 700.

What would you recommend?

Here is the deal, around 650 is the mean test level for all people aged 25-35. And then it's going to go down 30 points every half decade. You are obviously below that levels. If you want to know what I would do, I would start testosterone and keep my levels at 1000.

It might even improve your life. All this other stuff you're doing isn't going to bump your test but it may make you live longer and all that, I don't know, I'm still heating up those frozen burritos on those plastic bags.

Post: #7

(11-25-2015 09:25 PM)LINUX Wrote:  Your test levels are well into the normal levels of variation and fluctuation.

Don't be suprised if you get your blood tested next week and it's back down to 400, or even 700.

This.

You also didn't mention what your free T was, nor E2, SHGB, etc which methinks be better measures of the effects of estrogen exposure.

In other words, the steps you've taken may or may not have had any effect.

Still good advice though.

Post: #8

I appreciate the feedback guys. I'll be booking another trip to the endo

Post: #9

(11-26-2015 11:43 AM)LINUX Wrote:  

(11-26-2015 10:14 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

(11-25-2015 09:25 PM)LINUX Wrote:  Your test levels are well into the normal levels of variation and fluctuation.

Don't be suprised if you get your blood tested next week and it's back down to 400, or even 700.

What would you recommend?

Here is the deal, around 650 is the mean test level for all people aged 25-35. And then it's going to go down 30 points every half decade. You are obviously below that levels. If you want to know what I would do, I would start testosterone and keep my levels at 1000.

It might even improve your life. All this other stuff you're doing isn't going to bump your test but it may make you live longer and all that, I don't know, I'm still heating up those frozen burritos on those plastic bags.

How difficult would it be to do this if you were say, shooting yourself up with some regular testosterone cypionate? You would have to do weekly blood tests though correct?

Post: #10

(11-26-2015 03:09 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  How difficult would it be to do this if you were say, shooting yourself up with some regular testosterone cypionate? You would have to do weekly blood tests though correct?

150mg will do it. Some people (like me) need a little more. You can maintain those levels easily with one injection every 7 days. I prefer smaller doses twice a week but that's just me.

It was the old medical information that had people bouncing off the walls and shit. Doctors use to give you 500mg an injection and tell you to come back in three weeks for your next one, so it was a roller coaster of emotions, High increase, peak, and then steady crash. Some dumbass hospitals (like the VA) still use that method.

Post: #11

Quote:Soy and beer have a negative effect on testosterone levels because of the way the body breaks them down and what exists within the byproducts. Soy has estrogen in it, everyone seems to know that now; however, beer does too. It's the hops.

A quick google search has that pop up. How much beer do you guys drink?

Post: #12

(11-26-2015 03:53 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

(11-26-2015 03:09 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  How difficult would it be to do this if you were say, shooting yourself up with some regular testosterone cypionate? You would have to do weekly blood tests though correct?

150mg will do it. Some people (like me) need a little more. You can maintain those levels easily with one injection every 7 days. I prefer smaller doses twice a week but that's just me.

It was the old medical information that had people bouncing off the walls and shit. Doctors use to give you 500mg an injection and tell you to come back in three weeks for your next one, so it was a roller coaster of emotions, High increase, peak, and then steady crash. Some dumbass hospitals (like the VA) still use that method.

Thanks for the tips Linux.

I've been seriously considering purchasing some test cyp and doing 150mg injections weekly while having some HCG and Clomid on the side as emergency precaution. I was going to do an initial blood test for some baseline stuff and then just do it weekly and check back in a month or so with another blood test.

Out of curiosity, do you plan on doing this for the rest of your life or do you have plans to stop? Would the procedure for stopping be as easy as just not doing an injection and letting yourself fall back to pre TRT levels or would you need to do some mild PCT?

And last question (thanks for the tips Linux), how difficult was it to learn how to inject yourself? I'm a bit of a b!tch when it comes to needles though I don't have any problem with others doing it for me strangely enough.

Post: #13

(11-27-2015 07:52 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(11-26-2015 03:53 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

(11-26-2015 03:09 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  How difficult would it be to do this if you were say, shooting yourself up with some regular testosterone cypionate? You would have to do weekly blood tests though correct?

150mg will do it. Some people (like me) need a little more. You can maintain those levels easily with one injection every 7 days. I prefer smaller doses twice a week but that's just me.

It was the old medical information that had people bouncing off the walls and shit. Doctors use to give you 500mg an injection and tell you to come back in three weeks for your next one, so it was a roller coaster of emotions, High increase, peak, and then steady crash. Some dumbass hospitals (like the VA) still use that method.

Thanks for the tips Linux.

I've been seriously considering purchasing some test cyp and doing 150mg injections weekly while having some HCG and Clomid on the side as emergency precaution. I was going to do an initial blood test for some baseline stuff and then just do it weekly and check back in a month or so with another blood test.

Out of curiosity, do you plan on doing this for the rest of your life or do you have plans to stop? Would the procedure for stopping be as easy as just not doing an injection and letting yourself fall back to pre TRT levels or would you need to do some mild PCT?

And last question (thanks for the tips Linux), how difficult was it to learn how to inject yourself? I'm a bit of a b!tch when it comes to needles though I don't have any problem with others doing it for me strangely enough.

I'd suggest all men, young and old, have some blood tests done.

Even if you're young and perfect health, it's useful to have a baseline. Go once a year and you'll be able to pinpoint when your levels start changing.

Getting blood tests done is easy. The only reason not to go is if you're scared of the results.

Mike has given plenty of information on understanding results.

Post: #14

(11-27-2015 07:52 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(11-26-2015 03:53 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

(11-26-2015 03:09 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  How difficult would it be to do this if you were say, shooting yourself up with some regular testosterone cypionate? You would have to do weekly blood tests though correct?

150mg will do it. Some people (like me) need a little more. You can maintain those levels easily with one injection every 7 days. I prefer smaller doses twice a week but that's just me.

It was the old medical information that had people bouncing off the walls and shit. Doctors use to give you 500mg an injection and tell you to come back in three weeks for your next one, so it was a roller coaster of emotions, High increase, peak, and then steady crash. Some dumbass hospitals (like the VA) still use that method.

Thanks for the tips Linux.

I've been seriously considering purchasing some test cyp and doing 150mg injections weekly while having some HCG and Clomid on the side as emergency precaution. I was going to do an initial blood test for some baseline stuff and then just do it weekly and check back in a month or so with another blood test.

Out of curiosity, do you plan on doing this for the rest of your life or do you have plans to stop? Would the procedure for stopping be as easy as just not doing an injection and letting yourself fall back to pre TRT levels or would you need to do some mild PCT?

And last question (thanks for the tips Linux), how difficult was it to learn how to inject yourself? I'm a bit of a b!tch when it comes to needles though I don't have any problem with others doing it for me strangely enough.

Yes, I'll be doing TRT and HGH for the rest of my life.

As far as the needles, I went over what gage to use here.

/thread-44354.html

If you use a 25 gage needle, you won't even feel it. But you have to know how to put pressure on the plunger. Most guys start with 23g because it's easier.

If you want to go back to normal, you can stop. It'll usually take you the same about of time that you were on trt to go back to normal, however the longer you are on it, the less likely you are to go back to normal. And some guys never do go back to normal. The HCG is what makes it easier to go back to normal , say 250iu sub-q every 3 days. Even when I did cycles during my early 20's I never took clomid, I took nolvadex instead for my PCT. Clomid is known to fuck with your eye sight and it did mine.

Post: #15

Just finished a documentary on estrogen chemicals in the plastics. I have heard about it but didn't know it was so widespread.
The doc is called The Disappearing Male if anyone wants to check it out. I'll look into purchasing a water filter because I been buying plastic gallons for years. fuck.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-disappearing-male/

Post: #16

I follow most guidelines but drink tap water 24-7.

Can someone break down the water filter choices? I always thought it was a scam. Living in the states means I have the best water in the world.

Post: #17

(11-29-2015 11:12 PM)redbeard Wrote:  I follow most guidelines but drink tap water 24-7.

Can someone break down the water filter choices? I always thought it was a scam. Living in the states means I have the best water in the world.

I just worry about all the anti depressants, birth control hormones, and other stuff that gets into the water supply, but sometimes I wonder if this is a legitimate concern. Anyone have any insight into what kind of stuff can potentially make it into our tap water?

Post: #18

If you have your hair cropped short.
You can very easily replace soap & shampoo with good ol' baking soda.

Post: #19

(11-30-2015 12:31 AM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

(11-29-2015 11:12 PM)redbeard Wrote:  I follow most guidelines but drink tap water 24-7.

Can someone break down the water filter choices? I always thought it was a scam. Living in the states means I have the best water in the world.

I just worry about all the anti depressants, birth control hormones, and other stuff that gets into the water supply, but sometimes I wonder if this is a legitimate concern. Anyone have any insight into what kind of stuff can potentially make it into our tap water?

As I mentioned, that shit is everywhere. In addition to the anti depressants, birth control hormones (a big part of the estrogens we get), there is runoff from fertilizer and pesticides, leaching of DEHP from water pipes into the water itself, parabens from hygiene products, phthalates from fragrances in the hygiene products, and a million other things.

For water filter choices, there are:

Pur/Brita (cheap carbon filters)
These are cheap, convenient, and good at filtering lead, iron, calcium, and chlorine from the drinking water. Can't filter out many chemicals or pathogens.

Berkey filters
Expensive and slow, but able to filter out many chemicals, such as DEHP and potentially other estrogenic chemicals. Additionally, if a Sandy or Katrina-like event were to hit your area, you can literally take pond water and turn it into drinking water without worrying about e-coli or giardia. The upfront cost is high, but you can clean the filters with an old toothbrush and squeeze years and years of use out of them. The assembly itself should last indefinitely. Filtering is slow, but you can speed it up by using 4 filters instead of 2. I usually just pour in what I need for the day in the morning or evening. Read this for more info: http://www.berkeyfilters.com/berkey-answ...omparison/

Nano filtration or electrolysis devices
I think these are overkill, and they remove a lot of the minerals in the water which the body needs.

Post: #20

(11-30-2015 07:11 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  Berkey filters
Expensive and slow, but able to filter out many chemicals, such as DEHP and potentially other estrogenic chemicals. Additionally, if a Sandy or Katrina-like event were to hit your area, you can literally take pond water and turn it into drinking water without worrying about e-coli or giardia. The upfront cost is high, but you can clean the filters with an old toothbrush and squeeze years and years of use out of them. The assembly itself should last indefinitely. Filtering is slow, but you can speed it up by using 4 filters instead of 2. I usually just pour in what I need for the day in the morning or evening. Read this for more info: http://www.berkeyfilters.com/berkey-answ...omparison/

I was under the assumption that pond water to drinking water science was limited, but one of these small $250 filters can do that?

Have you done it?

If that's the case one this would be a great investment.

Post: #21

(11-30-2015 08:09 AM)redbeard Wrote:  I was under the assumption that pond water to drinking water science was limited, but one of these small $250 filters can do that?

Have you done it?

If that's the case one this would be a great investment.

I've never had to so I have not. The murkier the water, the longer it takes, and the faster it wears out the filters. However, there are plenty of videos on youtube of people doing just that:





Most people who use them for their primary drinking water source are homesteaders who collect rainwater and process it through the filter.

What the Berkeys filter, from their website:

Quote: Viruses: 99.999% reduction
MS2 Coliphage - Fr Coliphage
*Exceeds purification standards

Pathogenic Bacteria Surrogate: >99.9999%
Raoultella terrigena
*Exceeds purification standard (Log 6)

Micro-Organisms: 99.9% reduction
Including: Total Coliform, Fecal Coliform, e.Coli

Pharmaceuticals: 99.5% reduction
Including: Erythromycin USP, Progestrone, Naproxen Sodium, Carbamazepine, Caffeine, Acetaminofen, Sulfamethoxazole, Triclosan, BPA

Trihalomethanes: Removed to below lab detectable limits >89.8% reduction
Including: Bromodichloromethane, Bromoform, Chloroform, Dibromochloromethane

Inorganic Minerals: Removed to below lab detectable limits
Including: Chlorine Residual (Total Residual Chlorine)

Heavy Metals: Greater than 95% reduction for most metals
Including: Aluminum (> 75%). Antimony (>97.5%), Barium (>80%), Cadmium (>99.5%), Cobalt (>95%), Chromium (>95%), Chromium 6 (>99.85%), Copper (>95%), Lead (>97.5%), Mercury (>98%), Molybdenum (>90%), Nickel (>95%), Vanadium (>87.5%)

Volatile Organic Compounds: Removed to below lab detectable limits
Including: Alachlor, Atrazine, Benzene, Carbofuran, Carbon Tetrachloride,
Chlorine, Chloramines, Chlorobenzene, Chloroform, 2 4-D, DBCP,
p-Dichlorobenzene, o-Dichlorobenzene, 1 1-Dichloroethane
1 2-Dichlorpethane, 1 1-Dichloroethylene, Cis-1 2-Dichloroethyiene
Trans-1 2-Dichloroethylene, 1 2-Dichloropropane
Cis-l 3-Dichloropropylene, Dinoseb, Endrin, Ethylbenzene
Ethylene Dibromide (EDB), Heptachlor, Heptachlor Epoxide
Hexachlorobutodlene, Hexachloro-, Cyclopentadlene, Lindane
Methoxychlor, MTBE, Pentachlorophenol, Simazine, Styrene
1,1,2,2-Tetrachloroethane, Tetrachloroethylene, Toluene
2,4,5-TP (Silvex), 1 2 4-trichlorobenzene, 1 1 1-trichloroethane
1 1 2-trichloroethane, Trichloroethylene, o-Xylene, m-Xylene

http://www.berkeyfilters.com/berkey-answ...fications/

Post: #22

Threats like this is why I read this forum. Proper consideration for the food & water we eat & drink is mandatory.

Post: #23

Thanks for the information thoughtgypsy. +1

Next time I get some windfall I'm buying one.

I don't think it'll clean up all my water though. I estimate only 25% of my water consumption is done at home, with the rest occurring at the gym or at work. Any suggestions?

I could bring a gallon jug to the gym but work is where it gets complicated.

Post: #24

(12-01-2015 10:50 PM)redbeard Wrote:  Thanks for the information thoughtgypsy. +1

Next time I get some windfall I'm buying one.

I don't think it'll clean up all my water though. I estimate only 25% of my water consumption is done at home, with the rest occurring at the gym or at work. Any suggestions?

I could bring a gallon jug to the gym but work is where it gets complicated.

Thanks man. Unfortunately I don't, but there may be some minor things you can do. In the gym, the water will most likely pass through a filter that only removes heavy metals, and at some point through plastic tubing containing DEHP. Not much you can do there, but the gallon jug is a good idea. I'd opt for a BPA free jug over a reused storebought jug. You can get a BPA-free shaker bottle for your protein and pre workout mixing. You might already have one.

What's the water at your work like? If you bring your lunch, eating a meal with broccoli in it might reduce some of the negative aspects of estrogen from the water. If I remember right, the I3C in broccoli converts the estrogen into a benign form that doesn't signal your pituitary gland to reduce testosterone production. If you fill them up at home before work, that's one less you'll be drinking at work/gym.

A tip for reducing the cost of your Berkey: Look on Amazon and other sites for deals instead of buying directly from the Berkey site. The Big Berkey is the most popular. Right now it's reduced by 32% on amazon, but I'm sure they run deals from time to time throughout the year. When installing the faucet for it, put olive oil around the rubber gasket to prevent leaks. After about 10 months the filters will stop working as fast. Get an old toothbrush or a chemical free scotch brite pad and brush off the gunk on the outside, then prime the filters again. With that you should be able to squeeze years and years out of every set of filters.

Post: #25

In the spirit of full disclosure, I had my estradiol checked per LINUX and VV's suggestion.

Free Estradiol, reference range <= 0.45pg/mL: 0.72pg/mL (High)

Total Estradiol, reference range <= 29pg/mL: 29pg/mL (Borderline)

So clearly, the steps I've taken aren't a complete solution. My next step is seeing an endocrinologist and getting a script for a small dosage of an aromotase inhibitor.