Post: #26

MY CURRENT CONCLUSION

By now I think this could be a means of trying to lower me to their level (their slang, their "pranks", their games).

Today they do not dare to prank me because I treat them as I do.

If this wasn't a threat to their "order" this wouldn't ever had been told to me.

Post: #27

Waiting to hear on upcoming bonuses... =)

Post: #28

Gents, I know its not proper to revive an old thread, but I felt it would be good to thank you all for your advice. Also, some updates:

* The sales manager I used to talk with in meetings, called me on October to know if I was interested in joining the sales team. Of course I said yes. Sales is the most envied place to be at, they earn good money/bonuses, and they travel to many countries. I passed his interview, his director's and after some weeks I was accepted. They gave me an offer to transfer from delivery to sales.

*Unexpectedly, when I showe their offer to my boss he became visibly irritated. He couldn't accept I was interviewed without his permission. He even said "the bad thing is now they changed your mindset" meaning I have higher expectations that his department cannot meet. He escalated the situation to de Dept. Director, and in the end they rejected the transference. Their argument was: "You are an investment, the rule states you should stay 3 years. After that we will fully support your transference". Therefore, in order to stay I negotiated a raise and more benefits. They promised them to become true the first quarter of 2015, so now they know I am underpaid. It's up to them.

*As a safeguard, I am undergoing a project management certification. Should I not get my raise on time, I will look for greener pastures. Even the newbies can find good offers elsewhere coming from my company.

*Of my department, only my boss and my team leader know of the rejected transferences. The rest have suspicions, and apparently shun me from their "parties" or "lunches". I couldn't care less, they just go get stupid wasted, or visit whorehouses.

Post: #29

(01-07-2015 11:41 AM)topdog Wrote:  Gents, I know its not proper to revive an old thread, but I felt it would be good to thank you all for your advice. Also, some updates:

* The sales manager I used to talk with in meetings, called me on October to know if I was interested in joining the sales team. Of course I said yes. Sales is the most envied place to be at, they earn good money/bonuses, and they travel to many countries. I passed his interview, his director's and after some weeks I was accepted. They gave me an offer to transfer from delivery to sales.

*Unexpectedly, when I showe their offer to my boss he became visibly irritated. He couldn't accept I was interviewed without his permission. He even said "the bad thing is now they changed your mindset" meaning I have higher expectations that his department cannot meet. He escalated the situation to de Dept. Director, and in the end they rejected the transference. Their argument was: "You are an investment, the rule states you should stay 3 years. After that we will fully support your transference". Therefore, in order to stay I negotiated a raise and more benefits. They promised them to become true the first quarter of 2015, so now they know I am underpaid. It's up to them.

*As a safeguard, I am undergoing a project management certification. Should I not get my raise on time, I will look for greener pastures. Even the newbies can find good offers elsewhere coming from my company.

*Of my department, only my boss and my team leader know of the rejected transferences. The rest have suspicions, and apparently shun me from their "parties" or "lunches". I couldn't care less, they just go get stupid wasted, or visit whorehouses.

Your boss is a cunt and a really shit bloke. Shame on him

Post: #30

@stevoaus: Indeed. He seems like he never had the guts to go into sales. Specially the phrase "and the bad thing is they changed your mindset" made it clear who I am working for. He dared to ask me to continue working "as if nothing had happened". But something happened.

If the rest of the team knew about this, they would hate me because I can do better, but also my boss would lose a lot of credibility. For me, my boss is just a tool for me to get my transference to sales in a couple months or to pick up my resignation letter from my desk. Whatever comes first.

Post: #31

A good boss always wants what's best for his employees. The inverse is also true.

You should try to infer information from your blocked transfer. Seems like the sales manager has less power than your boss. Or your boss' boss has more power than the sales manager's boss. Or the sales manager and/or his boss did not want to expend political capital on your transfer.

That said, I all but guarantee your days are numbered. Work hard to haul ass on your terms before you notice blood running down your back.

Post: #32

Great thread, great example of an OP engaging with the advice (which can be sorely lacking on many forums), and awesome update.

You now have a handle on the "de facto" rather than the "de jure", the politics, and the attitude. Best of luck and I hope you make it to sales soon, with this company or another.

Post: #33

@Peregrine: At least this boss wants what is better for himself and the department. If he lost me he would lose a key all-around piece in his workforce. The thing you mentioned about political cost sounds very likely. Besides, our dept director shielded himself with some collective inter department policies, which states any employee must complete 3 years before any transference is allowed.

Post: #34

@456: It helps I watch Suits (the TV series), Mad Men and House of Cards.

Thanks and I will become a salesman, somehow. Now I know what I am qualified to do, so there is no going back.

Post: #35

@topdog, good to hear you're moving up, sorry about your boss being a cockblock.

But, I'd like to address a comment you made way back when.

(04-16-2013 09:53 PM)topdog Wrote:  In my naive mind I thought of buying a box of donuts some friday but that's not the solution at all, heh.

I used to think stuff like this was bullshit, too, until I worked with a dude that did this type of stuff all the time. And guess what? Despite being relatively average at the job, he's moved up quickly and gets so much random help and favors from people it blows my mind. Little things like this work especially well with Joe Blow that drops all his money at the strip club.

So yeah, I started bringing in donuts occasionally, among other things.

Post: #36

I have a question for the OP; how does this sort of situation keep recurring in your life. Have you always been treated as somewhat of an outsider?

Post: #37

(01-09-2015 01:40 PM)topdog Wrote:  @Peregrine: At least this boss wants what is better for himself and the department. If he lost me he would lose a key all-around piece in his workforce. The thing you mentioned about political cost sounds very likely. Besides, our dept director shielded himself with some collective inter department policies, which states any employee must complete 3 years before any transference is allowed.

Company policies are used exactly for that purpose - to shield decision makers. If someone sufficiently powerful wants you badly enough, an exception would be made to any policies that stand in the way.

Post: #38

WTF? A guy you work with told you that? I mean he's not your boss? Just tell him for fuck off. It's not his place to tell you what to do and how to act.

Post: #39

@Fisto: Normally I've been a bright student, even my elementary school principal had me as her protégé. This in turn made other kids envy and hate me. Let's say I'd rather stand out than blend in.

@Peregrine: Agreed, but given the work culture of this company, I prefer to land a job elsewhere than to try and change it.

@Brodiaga: Yes, that's as fucked up as it sounds.

ATM I am actively seeking another job, and many many others are leaving for greener pastures. It's the same old story in this company: young graduates join for the good starting salary, and start learning. Two years later the raise doesn't come or it is pitiful. Third year comes and other companies come to snatch you up while your current employers struggle to find another graduate to replace their disappointed 'seniors' just like me. Rinse and repeat.

Post: #40

(11-21-2015 12:03 PM)topdog Wrote:  ATM I am actively seeking another job, and many many others are leaving for greener pastures. It's the same old story in this company: young graduates join for the good starting salary, and start learning. Two years later the raise doesn't come or it is pitiful. Third year comes and other companies come to snatch you up while your current employers struggle to find another graduate to replace their disappointed 'seniors' just like me. Rinse and repeat.

Not surprising. More than one business model can be summed up as "find bright and hardworking new grads and work the fuck out of them for a few years".

Post: #41

For a few years or until they wise up and start valuing themselves more.

They will find my replacement, but they will never be able to replace me.

Post: #42

(01-09-2015 09:31 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I have a question for the OP; how does this sort of situation keep recurring in your life. Have you always been treated as somewhat of an outsider?

(11-21-2015 12:03 PM)topdog Wrote:  @Fisto: Normally I've been a bright student, even my elementary school principal had me as her protégé. This in turn made other kids envy and hate me. Let's say I'd rather stand out than blend in.

Intelligence and arrogance. One is good and the other can be good if utilized properly which I don't think you are doing.

(11-21-2015 10:52 PM)topdog Wrote:  They will find my replacement, but they will never be able to replace me.

That is your ego talking. Don't be naive. You are a cog in a machine and they will replace you.

I think you should go into sales. Intelligence, ambition, and a little arrogance will help but your people skills are lacking. You are a lot like many great sales guys before they learned how to to be great sales guys.

Most great sales guys are arrogant but they know they are arrogant. They are able to manage other people's perception of them because they are self-aware. I don't think you are able to do that yet.

(04-16-2013 08:34 PM)topdog Wrote:  I am tall, about 6'7"

(04-18-2013 11:25 PM)topdog Wrote:  I think highly of myself and I show it by behaving highly. I dress sharp, I put quality in my work, so I behave in consequence.

The one thing that jumps off the page in this thread is that you are 6'7". You are very tall, you dress better than your coworkers, you act formally, and you even say "I think highly of myself". The combination of these things suggests that people are intimidated by you and think you are arrogant.

Most people think sales is about talking and convincing but it is really the opposite. It is all about listening and not acting like a stereotypical used car salesman. Building comfort is extremely important in sales just as it is in game but it is twice as important for you because you are 6'7". You say you don't want to blend in but that is exactly what you should be trying to do.

You want your boss and executives to perceive you as ambitious and very confident but you want coworkers and customers to perceive you as relaxed and down to earth.

This is what I would do.
-Dress nicely but not but don't go too far beyond how your coworkers or customers dress.
-Listen to people as much as possible even if you are just pretending to listen. Ask people a lot of open-ended questions and listen. Try to let other people do 75% of the talking. This sounds easy in theory but it isn't so easy to execute.
-Learn about people especially yourself. Improve your self-awareness. Don't worry about learning in advanced sales methodologies. The simpler the better. Read the basics like "How to Win Friends and Influence People" but read it twice, take notes, and work hard to internalize and execute the basic principles.
-Talk briefly about your engineering background when you get into sales and start talking with clients. Tell them you are an engineer and you are just starting out in this "account management" thing.

Post: #43

@birthday_cat: Thanks for the elaborate reply and honest feedback. Your reading of me is very accurate, or at least of the 2013 version of me (when I started this thread). I know myself intelligent but often you meet people who are smarter, taller, stronger, more charismatic or better looking than yourself. This makes you humble. Also the job market is tough and makes you realize your true value in the eyes of employers.

I have gradually become more aware of reality and how others see me. What sometimes work in Game (calibrated arrogance and sense of entitlement) doesn't work exactly the same when making friends or at work. There you have to learn about people, their story, dreams and struggles. Many years ago I learnt that everybody can tell you something you can learn from.

When meeting women, I have switched to a more laidback style instead of the super-sharp suited up guy I was. Now my aim is to look more relaxed, think jeans and leather jackets. More r-selected if anything.

"You want your boss and executives to perceive you as ambitious and very confident but you want coworkers and customers to perceive you as relaxed and down to earth."
^^^This is golden

As I mentioned, I was chosen by the sales manager to join his team (because I stood out from my team in many ways) but very restrictive policies blocked my transference. I am aiming to get a job in another company ASAP and then there work my way to sales.

I really appreciate the actionable advice you provided, and the time you spent to write that post. I will buy that book, certainly will help me see beyond my nose.

Thanks, this is why I love RVF.

-T

Post: #44

I find a lot of late twenties people too eager to come accross as a serious mr. know-it-all, afraid to make the wrong joke. It makes them stiff as a result. I found I don't like 'quasi-adult' people.

Many people in their 30s are more fun though, not so afraid to make jokes anymore.