Post: #26

@Incognito

Doesn't your experience cut against the idea of abundance then?

Maybe the right attitude to have is to have a scarcity mentality, and that the abundance concept is a crock of shit?

Red pill, feminine imperative, a woman's need to test, all of those things point toward a defensive posture.

How can a player be selfless, generous, and happy go lucky when he's dealing with terrorists?

The only abundance out there is sex with the "enemy"

A man can have a woman or a knife, but not both.

WIA

Post: #27

Why the fuck would you get married if you think there's a chance the bitch will take your shit?

If you aren't 100% positive that the marriage will be or life, it probably is a risk you shouldn't take.

And even if you are 100% positive: PRENUP

Also, here's a.... DON-STATUS BONUS TIP:

1.) Set up a holding company in Panama, then open a LLC in Wyoming or S. Dakota (these states allow you to register a LLC with complete anonymity and have no personal or corporate income tax).

2.) Issue all shares to the Panamanian company. It bills your LLC for "services", "rent", "marketing", etc.

3.) Pay the Panamanian entity from the LLC.

**At years end, there is no income, assets, etc. available through the US company. The holding company holds your interests and assets. Since it never does business except with companies it owns, there is a massive firewall between your money and any potential liability in the US.

Divorce the leech, keep your money while laughing all the way to the bank. Rinse, repeat ;D

Disclaimer: I dunno how this would work for Canadians or anyone else...

- The Don

Post: #28

Not sure if i should reply to somebody promoting Panamanian asset protection

WIA

Post: #29

Anyone who explains what this thread is actually about deserves a rep point from every member who replied to it.

Any volunteers?

Post: #30

(11-16-2015 11:47 AM)XXL Wrote:  Anyone who explains what this thread is actually about deserves a rep point from every member who replied to it.

Any volunteers?

If I'm not mistaken, WIA is arguing that abundance mentality should extend to LTRs because if that's what you want fine, and if she doesn't want you one day, still fine because there's so many other girls out there that you can LTR.

Abundance mentality shouldn't keep you from settling down if that's what you want.

Post: #31

Basically.

This post was inspired by that scarcity mentality that permeates all LTR discussions.

I can't imagine that all these smart men can't see the writing on the wall.

If you follow their logic,
- majority of marriages, here and often abroad end
- asset protection schemes are either scams or ridiculously difficult to make practical
- women brought here will be corrupted
- women in desirable countries will eventually fall to either feminism or technology

Where is the abundance?

Macro and micro forces are eating away at objective abundance.

The very thing that most guys want is clearly not possible, not in the long run.

Post: #32

(11-16-2015 12:27 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Where is the abundance?

Macro and micro forces are eating away at objective abundance.

The very thing that most guys want is clearly not possible, not in the long run.

Do you mean the economy is making abundance mentality unworkable? Or are you implying the opposite?

Post: #33

Reality has made the abundance mentality untenable.

WIA

Post: #34

(11-16-2015 02:37 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Reality has made the abundance mentality untenable.

WIA

What do you mean my friend?

Post: #35

(11-14-2015 03:07 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  "I'm not going to get married because she'll talk half my stuff and the kids"
vs
"Abundance"

Shouldn't the abundance mentality extend to LTR's. I.E, if I get "frivorced", there's so much out there that I don't need to worry?

For the average Joe, a classic divorce (50% initial split, usually immediate loss of access to shared accommodation space, an on-going wealth transfer arrengement for the future) will degrade life quality seriously.
A really wealthy Joe on the other hand, has an option - even a costly classic divorce will not degrade his life quality seriously.

Therefore IMO abundance mentality should not extend to long term relationships for the average Joe.

Post: #36

(11-16-2015 01:59 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

(11-16-2015 12:27 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Where is the abundance?

Macro and micro forces are eating away at objective abundance.

The very thing that most guys want is clearly not possible, not in the long run.

Do you mean the economy is making abundance mentality unworkable? Or are you implying the opposite?

A depressing conclusion. But is it really the right one?

There's always more pussy out there, and there's always more money too.

The issue is, through a honest self assessment, how much of it is attainable? Can you always get new pussy, can you always get more money?

Is that what we're getting at here, or am I missing the point?

Post: #37

The clearest way I can put it is: loyal, marriage-worthy women are becoming rarer by the minute. It's very difficult to predict whether a woman will be loyal in advance. Therefore don't plan your life in such a way that you would be devastated if your marriage fails.

Post: #38

What is the alternative?

Very few men are cut out to be alone once they reach a certain age.

The older you get the harder it is to adjust to new things.

Post: #39

(11-16-2015 03:55 PM)DaveR Wrote:  The clearest way I can put it is: loyal, marriage-worthy women are becoming rarer by the minute. It's very difficult to predict whether a woman will be loyal in advance. Therefore don't plan your life in such a way that you would be devastated if your marriage fails.

Yes, which is why I wrote this in another thread about marriage.

Quote:I do think many, if not most, men still romanticize marriage. It's funny, the woman romanticizes about the wedding day (it's all about her). After that, it's an after thought.

Once you understand why you want this, I also recommend never stop working on yourself. Keep hitting the gym, keep your hobbies, keep some time to yourself away from the wife and/or kids.

The last thing you want to do is lose yourself to your marriage. I have seen many guys do this only to get divorced and be lost. Heck, I have seen long marriages where one spouse dies and the other follows soon after. Luckily this was never a problem for me. In fact, one of the reasons I hated marriage was due to taking my time away from the things I wanted to do. haha

I also want to point out, if you focus on divorce, you may be subconsciously making it happen. You really need to be all in without reservations if you plan on doing this.

It doesn't mean you can't do what it takes to protect yourself before getting married.

Just don't sabotage your relationship with preconceived ideas.

Post: #40

(11-16-2015 04:12 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  What is the alternative?

Very few men are cut out to be alone once they reach a certain age.

The older you get the harder it is to adjust to new things.

I don't think you will ever be alone unless it is something you want.

There will always be a lot of single women out there. It's just normal these days.

I still wouldn't rule out marriage if that is what you want. The game doesn't end after the "I dos" regardless. I think that is where a lot of guys fail to understand. They think once they get married they can relax and get lazy.

I just found out a uncle of mine was married 3 times. I knew about two, but the third caught me by surprise. He had one kid with wife number 2 and 2 more kids with his current wife. He seems pretty damn happy and I don't see anything happening to his current marriage.

Post: #41

I don't think the problem isn't scarcity vs abundance mindset.

I think it's a lack of clear thinking about what it takes to
have a successful (modern) relationship.

If you look at the trends on marriage/divorce from the 1870-2010
divorce trends have followed marriage trends pretty closely.



The only difference today is that economic pressures have made it both
more expensive to get married and even more expensive to get divorced...thus
the recent record low divorce rates.

We know Marriage really begins at dating...so if you truly have an abundance lifestyle
then in practice you'll always have high quality women around who will make excellent wives...
which in today's world takes a competitive spirit, skill and good taste.

So that means, more than ever before, the modern man must master his dating game
and his financial game if he ever wants to navigate marriage without getting shipwrecked
or perishing at sea.

Post: #42

^^^That recent dip in divorces is due to the 2008 issues.

Lot of people couldn't afford to not live together to get through it.

I was thinking about this today, a high percent of divorces claim financial issues being the reason for divorce. When people split, don't those finances get strained more? Two rents/mortgages, etc? Since the majority of divorces are initiated by women, basically, they don't want to listen to the earner on how to handle money. Divorce is just a way for a woman not to learn anything it seems.

Post: #43

There is no real point of getting married if not for procreation. If you choose to procreate then it would follow that you choose to rear and support your offspring whether in or out of wedlock. If you choose to do so then it follows if you pick a feminine gender role supportive female then you could conceivably not want her to work too hard through her child rearing years. Thus she learns no skils to support herself should you two split. Which likely should imply you want the creature that bore your offspring not to be destitute one you two part. So what would you think such split should cost. I'm not talking as of current legal reality but of some idealized libertarian worldview

Post: #44

Even with abundance, the game is still not easy. Especially as you get older.

I'm enjoying single life now and though my success has skyrocketed since learning game, it's still a lot of work and at times can be frustrating.

The texting, constantly being on the hunt, the flaking, the girls that are interested and their hormones change or their minds change and they decide no to the date. Hell, the girls you bang until they're screaming bloody mary and still flake or ghost. Not to mention competing with the girl's cellphone and every orbiter she has constantly hitting her up.

I don't want to do this forever. If I was famous or didn't mind blowing money on whores, like Bilzerian, it'd be different.

Eventually I see myself looking for a LTR, probably abroad. Also, I'd like kids one day.

I'll just have to pick the best girl I can find, if marriage is in the cards - prenup up, and decide to live in an area or locale that will, by my own judgement, have the best success for being an environment for a good LTR/marriage and family life.

Post: #45

(11-15-2015 12:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Most of the LTR/Marriage conversation sounds like a bunch of guys running scared, afraid that the first marriage is the one and only shot... Rather than take the shot, they'd prefer to forego the entire institution altogether.

Exactly. Of course we're scared. Why would men not be scared of signing a legal contract that has no benefits to males, only disadvantages and risks?

(11-15-2015 05:47 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  I don't get the rationale. If they are that worried about losing half, they need to be marrying professional women that are in the same league or higher.

They don't want that, though. They want someone to give up their career and take care of little Sammy.

Then bitch about fairness when they have to pay up.

Hahaha, OK good luck marrying those professional alpha CEO high-earning broads out there, especially if you expect them to be super feminine LTR-material girls that earn more than high earning men - Yes they do exist, but it's like a fresh water oasis in the middle of the desert, very very hard to find.

Now for the rest of us who settle down with our baba-mama, why would we not want them to take care of little Timmy. No they don't HAVE to give up their career, this is their choice... but the fact of the matter is most (not all) girls will get much more happiness from raising kids than anything else in life (research-backed). We as men are taking care of earning money and providing for them, so there's a perfect symbiosis there.

All in all, not sure if you're trolling or not.

(11-15-2015 04:27 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Well the next question is what do you see as a benefit in getting married? If the >50% risk of getting divorce raped and having to fork over your assets and a large portion of your income for an indefinite amount of time does ward you off from the idea of it, then what is the upside?

(11-15-2015 05:01 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Well LTR and marriage are two very different things.

Again I ask, what is the beneifit of marriage? There is no actual "risk" to an off-the-books long term relationship. I have dated girls for years on end and things stopped working out for one or both of us and we ended it and it that was that. I can't hate on that arrangement.

Exactly. After all the countless threads about marriage on RVF, I'm yet to hear of any actual benefits for men to marry.

Post: #46

(11-16-2015 12:27 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Basically.

This post was inspired by that scarcity mentality that permeates all LTR discussions.

I can't imagine that all these smart men can't see the writing on the wall.

If you follow their logic,
- majority of marriages, here and often abroad end
- asset protection schemes are either scams or ridiculously difficult to make practical
- women brought here will be corrupted
- women in desirable countries will eventually fall to either feminism or technology

Where is the abundance?

Macro and micro forces are eating away at objective abundance.

The very thing that most guys want is clearly not possible, not in the long run.

Okay I'm starting to get a somewhat more clear view of what you are looking for.

The issue you touch upon here is LTR/Marriage in the West versus other places with women who are less of a personal and financial liability. Its generally believed in this community that women that are raised in more tradition cultures (Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, South America) are a safer beter and far more "wifeable" than a standard American, Canadian, Australian, British, woman.

No one has a scarcity mentality when talking all starry eyed about foreign girls from cultures with more tradition family values and sensibilities. In that regard, I believe the "abundance" comes in where dudes around our circles in the West who want a wife/LTR are pretty well understood that they could just move to a place with women who are more suitable for that. I think I can speak for all men when I say if we want a wife then there are millions of them in SEA, EE, and SA.

Now, if what you are implying is that any view of scarcity of a specific thing in a given environment is weak then I think that is akin to relating every little thing to alpha/beta dichotomy and is just a little absurd. As intelligent men we have to be realistic and objective. Statistics, history, and overwhelming personal experience and evidence show that finding a suitable long term partner for settling down and raising a family in much of the Western world is a fool's errand; therefor we don't do it. We use the resources we have for what they are.

Post: #47

(11-16-2015 07:11 PM)Jungle Wrote:  Exactly. After all the countless threads about marriage on RVF, I'm yet to hear of any actual benefits for men to marry.

Only if you have kids. I think kids do better with two parents. That is the only reason I will get married. I want to do whatever is best for my blood. Remember gentlemen to wrap it!

Post: #48

Like this topic of scarcity vs abundance regarding marriage. I think another factor in the decision for rational-thinking men to forego marriage has to do with society subsidizing the costs of children as opposed to leaving it in the private hands of the family. There used to be laws and structure in place to make sure children were brought up in as good of an environment as possible. This essentially made a man and a woman have a marriage "license" where sex and cohabitation were legal and the contract was for life. Barring the exceptions like the death of a parent, imprisonment, etc. a mother and father were around. Laws were also in place to prevent moral hazards, such as it being illegal for a man and woman to live together without the marriage license and no state support for bastard children.

Now with a large welfare state where a woman will get child support from either the father or government (or both), having a child is now a public matter instead of a private contract between the husband and wife. Sure, communities and family members always supported the family but a lot more control was with the individuals who had the children. Now the government is the ultimate authority in deciding what is best for the children in case the marriage breaks down (where previously the church and community were helping hands in difficult marriages, but the husband and wife were expected to stick it out).

In essence, with the state having a larger role in raising children (which was a large purpose in marriage in the first place), many are opting out due to the risk and costs. Sex is cheap and can be had without the contract. The costs of marriage due to the new structure have gone way up, and less men can afford to both be married and still have an abundance mentality regarding the marriage itself. It is almost like public vs. private schools (and health care in the future). Whether your kid goes to public school or not, we all pay for the public schooling of children through taxation. But for those that are well off and want a better education for their children, they will send them to private school, not worrying that they are paying double because the value is better in their eyes and the costs are not a massive burden. Here, they have an abundance mentality and aren't as worried that their kids are going to be brainwashed by the government, become drug users, have lousy teachers, etc (even though private school isn't immune to this).

I feel this is similar to marriage in the modern world. It is still in our biology to reproduce and have children, and wealthier men can afford the higher cost of marriage and the risk. They know that with their wealth and game that their wife has a prize, and simultaneously, they get to enjoy the benefits of being fathers and status in their work/communities. If it all falls apart and the wife frivorces them, then they pay a cost which doesn't destroy their life, and they move on to the next project and adventure with women and other interests. They could afford it, and while they aren't happy about the divorce, they likely won't spend the rest of their lives hating the system and being bitter towards women.

While I have no statistical evidence, this is why through observation that upper-middle class families seem to have a lower divorce rate than society as a whole (not the super rich 1% but those that do well in fields like medicine, law, between $200,00-$400,000 type), where a family is created and there is a larger abundance mentality with the man towards the institution and possible risks. The system might have intended to help out the poor and children through welfare payments and nanny-state support, but it has made the hidden costs of marriage and family more expensive for average Americans, giving the lot a scarcity mentality in the process.

Post: #49

(11-16-2015 08:31 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(11-16-2015 07:11 PM)Jungle Wrote:  Exactly. After all the countless threads about marriage on RVF, I'm yet to hear of any actual benefits for men to marry.

Only if you have kids. I think kids do better with two parents. That is the only reason I will get married. I want to do whatever is best for my blood. Remember gentlemen to wrap it!

I'm curious as to why you believe the best way for kids to have two parents is for those parents to be married? A man and a woman can be completely harmonious and devoted to each other and the family without marriage being involved. Men should LTR their baby-mama instead of marrying them, IMO.

Post: #50

(11-16-2015 07:11 PM)Jungle Wrote:  Hahaha, OK good luck marrying those professional alpha CEO high-earning broads out there, especially if you expect them to be super feminine LTR-material girls that earn more than high earning men - Yes they do exist, but it's like a fresh water oasis in the middle of the desert, very very hard to find.

I said marry someone in the same league as you. You trying to tell me you're a high earning CEO?

Who is trolling here?

Quote:Now for the rest of us who settle down with our baba-mama, why would we not want them to take care of little Timmy. No they don't HAVE to give up their career, this is their choice... but the fact of the matter is most (not all) girls will get much more happiness from raising kids than anything else in life (research-backed). We as men are taking care of earning money and providing for them, so there's a perfect symbiosis there.

Good luck in divorce court.