Post: #1

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/0...commuting/

So I was reading this article on commuting and when you start adding up all the time and costs into a daily commute it's actually quite staggering even at the smallest levels.

I was looking at my own situation after my landlord hit me with a rent increase notification which got my hamster moving. Currently I am exactly 8 miles(round trip) from work which translate to 30 min commute(round trip) per day. In other words its a pretty simple commute compared to the average person. My rent increase is now going to put me into a situation where I could spend another $150 per month for a place 2 miles away(round trip) at only 6 mins commute(round trip). This sounds like like im micro managing things but when I added everything up I would actually save 8 hours per month on driving. It's basically a full day of work. Now the move puts me farther from bars so night life options would be downgraded which is ultimately the reason I wouldn't move since the cost of getting laid needs to be factored in as well. Still it's some food for thought for most people in that the average person I work with spends an hour each day driving to work. I know some that spend close to 2 hours commuting per day.

Post: #2

It's not just about dollars and cents, or even minutes and hours. You'd have to factor how much it takes a toll on you, mentally, physically, and spiritually. Long commutes are not just draining and soul sucking, but also carry a HUGE opportunity cost beyond what the commuter can possibly imagine.

I've been there.

Post: #3

Great topic that many people don't think about too deeply.

If you guys are interested in some of the psychology behind this, here's a couple links:

http://persquaremile.com/2012/09/13/marc...-constant/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marchetti%27s_constant

Quote:...a 1994 treatise—for lack of a better term—by Cesare Marchetti. He posited that one hour per day is as long as people have been willing to travel. Ever. Since the dawn of human society.

At least, that’s what Marchetti hypothesized. He did have some data to back it up, though it wasn’t his own. It was Yacov Zahavi’s. Zahavi was a transportation engineer who consulted for the U.S. Department of Transportation and World Bank in the 1970s and early 1980s. As part of his work for the DOT, he came up with what he called the Unified Mechanism of Travel Model, or UMOT. Zahavi produced a string of reports and papers on UMOT, which he hoped would shake up how transportation planning was done in cities.

In the process of developing UMOT, Zahavi collected many juicy tidbits of data. One observation was that as people earn more money, they spend an increasing percentage of their income on everyday travel, up to about 13 percent. That number seemed to be both a hard ceiling and firm floor once households earned above a certain amount (about $50,000 in 1976). The richer you got, the more you spent in real terms. But the percentage remained the same.

Another bit—the one that inspired Marchetti—was that people in the United States and the United Kingdom traveled about 1 hour per day. (Astute readers will notice that a 30 minute commute to work—the number most studies have settled on as the “average” commute—adds up to precisely that amount at the end of the day.) Zahavi also noticed that even though some people could travel faster—by car rather than bus, for example, they still spent the same amount of time traveling. They just traveled farther to work—a trend which more recent studies have also uncovered.

Zahavi’s data is compelling, but in Marchetti’s hands it quickly became a universal constant. If so many people in Zahavi’s study (mostly in the developed world of the 1950s and 1960s) traveled the same amount per day, Marchetti reasoned that humans must have an innate desire to travel at most and at least 1 hour per day. Boom. Marchetti’s constant.

Zahavi’s data wasn’t the only leg he had to stand on, though it certainly was his sturdiest. Cave men and Greek villages were another. Marchetti pointed out, “Walking about 5 km/hr, and coming back to the cave for the night, gives a territory radius of about 2.5 km and an area of about 20 km2. This is the definition of the territory of a village, and … this is precisely the mean area associated with Greek villages today, sedimented through centuries of history.”

Marchetti—not one to think small, apparently—then used his new universal constant as a jumping off point to explore the future of tomorrow. How fast would a transportation system need to be to serve a city of 100 billion people? An average speed of 150 km/h sounds about right. Can you turn Switzerland into one giant city? Sure, so long as you run maglev trains in sealed tunnels sucked free of atmosphere. What about if you linked Paris and Casablanca with a maglev, too? “[A] woman in Casablanca could go to work in Paris, and cook dinner for her children in the evening.”

Not a man to leave a logical extreme unreached, Marchetti realized that at some point in the future everywhere on Earth will be 30 minutes from your front door. “With mach-7 airplanes and matching Maglevs, a world city is also possible. The assimilation of the technologies in political terms, however, will take some time.”

Post: #4

MMM changed my life. I started thinking about how I spent my money, what things I could cut and then watch if my life actually got worse or not. Turns out, most of the time no real change in my mood or life quality, just more money in the bank.

I might have gone over board the last couple of years with saving and "putting myself in a good position". Now I live in a building that is free housing with my work, but has a "no overnight guests" policy. So I live a 5 minute commute from work on foot, on a beautiful campus, with a nice pool and new basketball courts / gym, but my love life dropped because of it. Previously had a LTR where the girl would come over a couple days a week, now its bars and getting them over a different day later for the bang. Much harder.

That said, read some classic MMM stuff, think about where the money goes and get rich.

Post: #5

When I started my first job in the city I was commuting all in all 25 hours a week on the train, paying $400 odd a month on rent.

I got a house share literally 200m from my suburban office, was paying an additoinal $200 per month. With the 100 hours a month I free'd up from commuting, I was able to do about 30 hours OT and ended up about $800 a month in front.

But seriously, why does it take you 30 mins to drive 8 miles?

Post: #6

"But seriously, why does it take you 30 mins to drive 8 miles?"


Traffic - basically driving out of a town center to my office. Just to clarify its 15 mins to drive to work (4 miles) when traffic isn't too bad in the AM. In the PM if I leave at rush hour its 20-30 mins to drive back to my apartment (4 miles) but I'm usually able to leave early enough to avoid this. I have the shortest commute of anyone I work with. The guy sitting next to me drives 58 miles round trip a day for 100 mins on average. The most extreme example is my manager who drives 120 miles a day which takes him 2 hours. He's putting in an extra 60+ work days a year driving.

People at my office look at me like I'm crazy for trying to get my commute down. To be fair it probably doesn't make sense in my case.

Post: #7

(11-09-2015 09:03 AM)The Wire Wrote:  "But seriously, why does it take you 30 mins to drive 8 miles?"


Traffic - basically driving out of a town center to my office. Just to clarify its 15 mins to drive to work (4 miles) when traffic isn't too bad in the AM. In the PM if I leave at rush hour its 20-30 mins to drive back to my apartment (4 miles) but I'm usually able to leave early enough to avoid this. I have the shortest commute of anyone I work with. The guy sitting next to me drives 58 miles round trip a day for 100 mins on average. The most extreme example is my manager who drives 120 miles a day which takes him 2 hours. He's putting in an extra 60+ work days a year driving.

People at my office look at me like I'm crazy for trying to get my commute down. To be fair it probably doesn't make sense in my case.

A motorbike or even a push bike would solve all your worries about time and frugality. 4 miles is a dream commute for most people.

Hell, I live almost 4 miles fom my place of work and despite usually not seeing another car on the road it still takes ten minutes. I agree with you that you're overthinking this in relation to your personal circumstances, you've got it good.

Post: #8

The main thing I hate about a long commute is the inability to read because of motion sickness, so I can't even be productive in that aspect.

Post: #9

(11-09-2015 09:30 AM)Windom Earle Wrote:  The main thing I hate about a long commute is the inability to read because of motion sickness, so I can't even be productive in that aspect.

^^This^^

Long commutes are the worst, for me i've had commutes anywhere from 15-60 minutes (damn MBTA green line).

Now, I have a dream commute. I literally roll into the car and i'm at work. I like to go to the gym before work and having a long commute means I have to get up even earlier if I want to make it in on time.

Personally being in a car makes a long commute bearable. Riding on public transit, no thanks.

Post: #10

I'm about 2-3 miles from work, you have many choices that way:

- Bus
- Bike
- Walk
- Scooter

All very cheap, the little 50cc scooter gets north of 60 MPG by my math. Winter sucks because you are forced to take the car :/

Post: #11

(11-09-2015 12:36 PM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  I'm about 2-3 miles from work, you have many choices that way:

- Bus
- Bike
- Walk
- Scooter

All very cheap, the little 50cc scooter gets north of 60 MPG by my math. Winter sucks because you are forced to take the car :/

I'm 5 miles from work. 20 minute bike ride or 35 minute run with backpack. I feel sorry for people who drive to work in the winter dark and get fat doing no exercise. They feel sorry for me watching me run in the cold or rain. I like it.

Post: #12

I'm a nice 10 minute walk from work now, and at least 3 minutes of that time is waiting to cross and busy intersections. It is really an increase in quality of life. Plus I get a few extra minutes of walking in a day that I would otherwise spend sitting on my ass.

Post: #13

Say changing apartments is not possible (in France there's a shit ton of paperwork involved in findign apartments), what can you do to make the commute time on train/busses productive? Mine is 1h one-way.

I can't read because of motion sickness like other posters, I'm trying to learn how to quick nap during train rides but that can be dangerous (pickpocketing)

Post: #14

I'm about 65km from work.That's an 1hr10min on train ,50min by car with no traffic and up to 2hrs peak time.

I know dudes that live much futher but live near a beach or mountians.I'm in the process of renting out my property and moving closer to 35 or 40 km from work.To a coastal suburb..Beach=fitter chicks, better nightlife, better vibe.

Some guys like the outdoors hence live futher out or in my case are divorced and need to be near where their kids go to school.

I really do want to pick up a chick on the train though..I got to have some goals I guess.The worse thing about the train for me is the number of times I get sick after being on the public transport.Colds flu and coughs.I drove in to work for a year and a half and never got sick.Then I got back on the train and got hit hard by illness.

Post: #15

I've been doing the 40 minute commute for two years now. 80 minutes a day. I'll always be sure to keep it under 20 as I start looking for other jobs soon.

A lot of times I'll just hit the coffee shop after work and read/write while the traffic dies down.

One thing that helps me out a lot while stuck in traffic is listening to podcasts. The time doesn't feel as wasted when you are learning and listening to something educational.

Post: #16

Imagine being this poor schlub...

220-Mile Daily Commute

Quote:At this point he has passed through three major cities, forged three large rivers and crossed nine different counties. Round trip, that's 220 miles in 7 hours.

Post: #17

I just moved from 45 minutes to 5 minutes away from work. It's life changing

Post: #18

4 miles on a road bike is like nothing, plus you're also getting exercise and saving money.

Post: #19

(11-10-2015 07:58 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  I just moved from 45 minutes to 5 minutes away from work. It's life changing

I did this a couple of years ago.

Was an hour commute (via bus & train) each way.

I sold my house in the suburbs and got an apartment in the city. Only a 5 minute walk to work.

I couldn't believe how much more fresh I felt, it was ridiculous.

It also made lunch-time bangs with my co-worker logistically viable.

Post: #20

(11-09-2015 07:16 PM)brob Wrote:  I've been doing the 40 minute commute for two years now. 80 minutes a day. I'll always be sure to keep it under 20 as I start looking for other jobs soon.

A lot of times I'll just hit the coffee shop after work and read/write while the traffic dies down.

One thing that helps me out a lot while stuck in traffic is listening to podcasts. The time doesn't feel as wasted when you are learning and listening to something educational.

Commuting has been a poison to me that others in my life don't seem to get. I went from 30 min each way, down to walking, down to working at home. Walking to work was probably the best as it was a nice way to decompress and be outside.

If a person can't alter their commute...I would advise trying what brob is advocating...shift your times. My employer allowed me to come in an hour early and leave an hour early and it was amazing. Faster, easier drive in and out, super productivity before anyone else showed up etc.

The only problem are constraints which bind you as you add family and stuff to your life. Beware of these things before they happen.

1. Kids - this is the major commute driver....do you want to raise your kid in an apartment near all the bars and restaurants? No? Get ye to the suburbs

2. Stuff - have a second car? A boat? Where the heck are you going to keep all of that in the city close to your work?

3. Crime - There is an often documented urban 'ring' around downtown areas of high crime, run down, single family homes...sort of what is on the maximum edge of walking distance to downtown. Why? because its the optimum location for those who can't afford cars, but also can't afford high rent. You can always live here, but at your own risk.

Its easy to get trapped in a commute, and I swear its commute + naggy fat wife + keeping up with the jonses + responsibility to kids that kills men early. The weight, and the compromises all fall on the man/husband/father. Add in a divorce and its game over.

Post: #21

I cannot wait until self-driving vehicles become a thing in the next 5-10 years. Supposedly, car makers are trying to get the first retail models with full autopilot capabilities out by 2020. Will make commuting to work infinitely less annoying and taxing. I don't mind driving 20 minutes to wherever if I have a clear road but I HATE with absolute passion driving in rush hours (all it takes is a few retards to muck everything up and there are ALWAYS retards. Everyday). Not a big fan of public transport during rush hours either due to overcrowding and weirdos; its not even cost effective or time efficient in most cases as well. Ideally, I would like to be within walking distance but that isn't realistic all the time.

I don't like spending money on vehicles (depreciating assets and all) but I would drop some serious coin for a complete autopilot capable vehicle.

Post: #22

This is why owning a motorbike will save your life in so many ways.
A trip that would take 1 hour with bus, or 30 minutes with car, can be done in 15 minutes on a simple 200cc scooter or motorbike. You weave through traffic, hop off the bike in seconds, and can easily park anywhere. I would often park on the sidewalk in my town and no one would ever care. For anyone traveling more than 30 mins round-trip, have to seriously re-evaluate your life situation. However, I don't think commuting takes a toll on mental health - especially if you're on a bus, it can be relaxing; and with a car, you can listen to music or podcasts.
.

Post: #23

(11-10-2015 01:40 PM)The Black Knight Wrote:  I cannot wait until self-driving vehicles become a thing in the next 5-10 years. Supposedly, car makers are trying to get the first retail models with full autopilot capabilities out by 2020. Will make commuting to work infinitely less annoying and taxing. I don't mind driving 20 minutes to wherever if I have a clear road but I HATE with absolute passion driving in rush hours (all it takes is a few retards to muck everything up and there are ALWAYS retards. Everyday). Not a big fan of public transport during rush hours either due to overcrowding and weirdos; its not even cost effective or time efficient in most cases as well. Ideally, I would like to be within walking distance but that isn't realistic all the time.

I don't like spending money on vehicles (depreciating assets and all) but I would drop some serious coin for a complete autopilot capable vehicle.

Fully autonomous driving with no human assistance is a long ways off. I'm talking about it's going to be something for your kids at best not us. Anyone working corporate job now will be pretty much too old to benefit from. We need to keep in mind there are still people driving around 20-year-old cars with cassette players right now and thinking that when 2020 rolls around it's a new era for driving ain't happening sorry to say.

Post: #24

Fast forward to 30 seconds in.

Post: #25

I can't believe some of the commutes you guys live with. How do you do it? My longest commute was a 25 minute drive each way. I quit solely because they forced unpaid overtime, but the commute was a significant drain on my life. With that exception, all my jobs have been a 5-10 minute drive from my place.