Post: #1

This year I took a pretty small dip into Japanese lit.

I started with Murakami, who I thought would suck, but it is really a lot of fun.

Now I'm onto Mishima's Sea of Fertility tetralogy and it's honestly blowing me away.

Mishima's observations on human nature have been pretty unparalleled with anything else I've read. Followed with his advocacy of nationalism and purity of belief, he's really a force to reckon with. You feel motivated and inspired to shake and change the world around you.

After Mishima, I'm going to jump into his mentor's work, Kawabata.

I'm bummed it took me this long to jump into Japanese literature, but so far it's been extremely rewarding.

Anybody else read anything they find noteworthy in the modern Japanese cannon?

Post: #2

I applaud you on reading Mishma's tetralogy. Read it thirty years ago and I still think about it.

Post: #3

(10-25-2015 09:55 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  I applaud you on reading Mishma's tetralogy. Read it thirty years ago and I still think about it.

I can already tell it's something I'm going to be contemplating for a very long time.

Post: #4

I haven't read any of Mishima's works, but I have read a little about him and the dramatic way he died. Kind of an incredible guy.

OP, could you give a little synopsis of the Mishima book you read? I'd like to hear more about it, and your thoughts.

Post: #5

(10-25-2015 10:23 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I haven't read any of Mishima's works, but I have read a little about him and the dramatic way he died. Kind of an incredible guy.

OP, could you give a little synopsis of the Mishima book you read? I'd like to hear more about it, and your thoughts.

To be honest, Quintus Curtius, I don't think I can. The books I read are Spring Snow and Runaway Horses. Tomorrow I will finish The Temple of Dawn.

These books are massive. In under 400 pages, Mishima presents an unparalleled look onto human nature, the nature of the universe, and his beloved Japan. Those two books alone are so hard to pin down and simplify, that all I can say is read them. They are boring at times, but often present such astute and concise insights into the world that braving them is more than worth it.

I haven't read his mentor's work, Kawabata, who was given the nobel prize over Mishima, but I can say that from what I've read, Mishima was robbed. This tetralogy alone stands as a monolith not only for the novel, but for all works of art.

I feel like I'm coping out, but I've tried about six times on this post alone to distill what I've read, and I honestly don't know where to begin.

Read them. You will not regret it.

Post: #6

Thanks for this thread. I actually have a lot of Japanese literature on my e-reader, just never got around to start reading them.

I have quite a few books by Mishima, would you guys say starting with his Sea of Fertility books is best?

Post: #7

I have all of Mishima's stuff on Kindle, but haven't read yet. One thing I would add is that if any of you guys are into his work (or life), please please please check out Paul Schrader's amazing film Mishima: A Life In Four Chapters.

Post: #8

(10-25-2015 09:52 PM)theoogabear Wrote:  Now I'm onto Mishima's Sea of Fertility tetralogy and it's honestly blowing me away.

Mishima's observations on human nature have been pretty unparalleled with anything else I've read. Followed with his advocacy of nationalism and purity of belief, he's really a force to reckon with. You feel motivated and inspired to shake and change the world around you.

I started Spring Snow last night and didn't get to sleep till 4am... its absolutely blowing me away. I agree, his ability to paint a picture with words and describe human nature is beyond any other author I know of.

Thanks for starting this thread, OP has me hooked.

Post: #9

I dislike both Murakami and the modern "american trip novels" that his style seems to be based on. If this Mishima is remotely similar to that, I don't think I'll be giving him a try at all.

Post: #10

(10-31-2015 01:38 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  I dislike both Murakami and the modern "american trip novels" that his style seems to be based on. If this Mishima is remotely similar to that, I don't think I'll be giving him a try at all.

They're not comparable at all. Nobel prize laureate Kenzeburo Oe hated Murakami for a while because he became the poster boy of Japanese literature. When you read Mishima, you can see why.

But what don't you like about Murakami? I really enjoyed Norwegian Wood, and Hardboiled Wonderland and the End of the World.

Post: #11

(10-27-2015 03:14 PM)Thaitanium Wrote:  Thanks for this thread. I actually have a lot of Japanese literature on my e-reader, just never got around to start reading them.

I have quite a few books by Mishima, would you guys say starting with his Sea of Fertility books is best?

I haven't read anything outside of the Sea of Fertility. It's where I started because the plot made me curious as to how a writer would pull it off. I definitely don't regret it.

Post: #12

(10-27-2015 04:47 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  I have all of Mishima's stuff on Kindle, but haven't read yet. One thing I would add is that if any of you guys are into his work (or life), please please please check out Paul Schrader's amazing film Mishima: A Life In Four Chapters.

I saw this film in a theater when it came out. Later I told someone I completely understood why Mishima ended his life the way he did. But I still can't explain why.

Post: #13

(10-25-2015 09:52 PM)theoogabear Wrote:  Now I'm onto Mishima's Sea of Fertility tetralogy and it's honestly blowing me away...Mishima's observations on human nature have been pretty unparalleled with anything else I've read. Followed with his advocacy of nationalism and purity of belief, he's really a force to reckon with. You feel motivated and inspired to shake and change the world around you.

I just finished Mishima's The Sailor Who Fell From Grace with the Sea based upon your recommendation. Thank you. It was a very interesting read, and it touched on quite a few Manosphere concepts.

It's about a sailor in his mid 30's who - growing tired of the nomadic life - marries a single mother that he meets in a port town. Mishima examines the time when a man gives up his roaming ways to start a family. That conflict is central to the novel - is it better for a man to continue roaming, chasing down new adventures? Or, is it better for him to start a family and settle down? Mishima deals very honestly with the pros and cons of both sides.

Interestingly enough, the reviews that I read of the book did not touch on these red pill concepts. I am reminded of how fearful the general public is to discuss Manosphere ideas, even when they are central to a work of art.

Post: #14

Taken from Spring Snow:

Mishima on the memories of old relationships/pedastalizing pussy:

"For everything sacred has the substance of dreams and memories, and so we experience the miracle of what is separated from us by time or distance suddenly being made tangible. Dreams, memories, the sacred—they are all alike in that they are beyond our grasp. Once we are even marginally separated from what we can touch, the object is sanctified; it acquires the beauty of the unattainable, the quality of the miraculous. Everything, really, has this quality of sacredness, but we can desecrate it at a touch. How strange man is! His touch defiles and yet he contains the source of miracles.”

Mishima on women giving shit tests:

"Kiyo, what would you do if all of a sudden I weren’t here any more?” Satoko asked, her words coming in a rushed whisper.

This was a long standing trick of Satoko’s for disconcerting people. Perhaps she achieved her effects without conscious effort, but she never allowed the slightest hint of mischief into her tone to put her victim at ease. Her voice would be heavy with pathos at such times, as though confiding the gravest of secrets. Although he should have been inured to this by now, Kiyoaki could not help asking: “Not here any more? Why?” Despite all his efforts to indicate a studied disinterest, Kiyoaki’s reply betrayed his uneasiness. It was what Satoko wanted. “I can’t tell you why,” she answered, deftly dropping ink into the clear waters of Kiyoaki’s heart. She gave him no time to erect his defenses. He glared at her. It had always been like this. Which was why he hated her. Without the slightest warning she could plunge him into nameless anxieties. And the drop of ink spread, dull and gray, clouding everything in his heart that had been pellucid only a moment ago.

These books are a must-read for any man.

Post: #15

Just read Spring Snow and contrary to the opinion on here, I disliked it. SPOILER ALERT............Spoiled emo kid from upper crust family dying to show how aloof and edgy he is lets his childhood sweetheart get engaged to a prince, then suddenly wants the forbidden fruit, gets it, gets her pregnant, she gets the required abortion, cuts her hair and renounces her upcoming marriage and the world for the life of a Buddhist nun, at wit's end he tries to see her one last time, is refused and dies of pneumonia and a broken heart at 20 years old. The End.

His father is a dandy, and his grandfather was the HNIC, but there's nothing red pill about this guy at all. I'm not saying he needs to be, but if that's what you're looking for in your "protagonist" I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. The letter he writes in the beginning is embarrassing and belongs in the Newbie Forum (If you read it, you know what I mean.)

It is romantic and exotic as a period piece set in a foreign culture. I will give it that. But that wasn't enough to carry it for me.

Post: #16

(10-27-2015 04:47 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  I have all of Mishima's stuff on Kindle, but haven't read yet. One thing I would add is that if any of you guys are into his work (or life), please please please check out Paul Schrader's amazing film Mishima: A Life In Four Chapters.

Agreed. An exceptional film with one of the best soundtracks ever written for a movie.

Both Francis Ford Coppola and George Lucas were involved in this film.

Post: #17

(12-02-2015 02:36 AM)thirty-six Wrote:  Just read Spring Snow and contrary to the opinion on here, I disliked it. SPOILER ALERT............Spoiled emo kid from upper crust family dying to show how aloof and edgy he is lets his childhood sweetheart get engaged to a prince, then suddenly wants the forbidden fruit, gets it, gets her pregnant, she gets the required abortion, cuts her hair and renounces her upcoming marriage and the world for the life of a Buddhist nun, at wit's end he tries to see her one last time, is refused and dies of pneumonia and a broken heart at 20 years old. The End.

His father is a dandy, and his grandfather was the HNIC, but there's nothing red pill about this guy at all. I'm not saying he needs to be, but if that's what you're looking for in your "protagonist" I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. The letter he writes in the beginning is embarrassing and belongs in the Newbie Forum (If you read it, you know what I mean.)

It is romantic and exotic as a period piece set in a foreign culture. I will give it that. But that wasn't enough to carry it for me.

Did you read the three books which proceed it? You should because SPRING SNOW really doesn't make sense without them. I agree on your plot summary, but you've missed the point by only reading the last book of a four book series.

Post: #18

(12-31-2015 02:14 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 02:36 AM)thirty-six Wrote:  Just read Spring Snow and contrary to the opinion on here, I disliked it. SPOILER ALERT............Spoiled emo kid from upper crust family dying to show how aloof and edgy he is lets his childhood sweetheart get engaged to a prince, then suddenly wants the forbidden fruit, gets it, gets her pregnant, she gets the required abortion, cuts her hair and renounces her upcoming marriage and the world for the life of a Buddhist nun, at wit's end he tries to see her one last time, is refused and dies of pneumonia and a broken heart at 20 years old. The End.

His father is a dandy, and his grandfather was the HNIC, but there's nothing red pill about this guy at all. I'm not saying he needs to be, but if that's what you're looking for in your "protagonist" I think you're going to be sorely disappointed. The letter he writes in the beginning is embarrassing and belongs in the Newbie Forum (If you read it, you know what I mean.)

It is romantic and exotic as a period piece set in a foreign culture. I will give it that. But that wasn't enough to carry it for me.

Did you read the three books which proceed it? You should because SPRING SNOW really doesn't make sense without them. I agree on your plot summary, but you've missed the point by only reading the last book of a four book series.

I'm a little confused here... you say "proceed" and then that it's the last book, but Spring Snow is the first book in the series. Perhaps you just flipped what you were trying to say, so I'll take your point to mean that I have to read the others that follow to see how it develops. That said, I'm just giving my opinion of this book, by itself, not the whole series. After being underwhelmed by the opening chapter, though, I'm not sure I want to go down that path.

Post: #19

^^^^Correct. I had them out of order. Sorry, it's been thirty years since I read them. The correct order is
1) Spring Snow
2)Runaway Horses
3)Temple of Dawn
4)Decay of the Angel

I remember reading #4 and thinking "That's it?" all those books for this conclusion. Don't want to say more as it would be a spoiler. Would like to know it anyone read them in Japanese and how the English translation compares.