Post: #1

Hey guys,

I was just wondering if any of you fellas on here have successfully (or not so successfully) patented and sold a new product or idea.

I've always been an entrepreneur but mostly in terms of starting service businesses- not so much product sales.

The reason I'm asking is that we've all heard the horror stories of people's inventions getting ripped off by fake patent clerks or getting shark tanked (basically making nothing while the investors make everything).

Any anecdotes or advice would be greatly appreciated. Just looking to cover all my bases.

PS RVF members will get 10% off

-Chubby

Post: #2

The truth of the matter is the execution is much more important than the idea.

What I mean by this is that unless the invention is highly specialized (only a few PhDs or geniuses could ever develop it ever) there is little to no chance of you getting ripped off on something untested and unproven. The big boys with money will only ever thing about "stealing" your idea once they've seen that you are successful with it. And success is much more about execution than about having something new. Furthermore, chances are then even slimmer that they will outright steal your idea because they would entail them having to hire a whole team of people to copy it. They would much rather just buy you and your team and that way would not have to train anyone new or face other complications associated with R&D because you've assembled it all.

So just do it. Sure cover your ass a bit with some patents and stuff and hire an attorney to do that, but again the most important thing is execution.

Everyone thinks people are going to steal their ideas, but the fact of the matter is no one is going to steal anyone's idea if its untested and unproven because that's a huge financial risk. And by the time you have proven it as useful they would rather acquire you than compete.

Post: #3

I have a buddy who for as long as I've known him always has some invention on the horizon, most of his ideas are really dumb, just my opinion I know many "dumb" ideas have turned people into millionaires but not only are his ideas bad but the execution is horrible.

Anyhow, he's actually looked into manufacturers and patents and the whole process and even gone through with a few patents. I think the biggest hurdle to bringing a new product to market where you have to get the patents and everything as opposed to just "private labeling" and bringing a new product to market is there's so much you need to invest just to bring it to market with no gurantee of success.

Depending on the complexity of the product and industry you could spend thousands just on patent research to find out you can't do your idea. If you can proceed from there your looking at again thousands to tens of thousands to patent the idea and as far as making it just getting a prototype or molds made on a simple invention could run anywhere from 6k-12k and upwards.

My buddy has tried getting me to loan him money to get things made. None of his ideas are things I would be confident in investing in but even if he had a great idea, like someone else said it's all about execution.

As far as ideas getting stolen yeah it happens, heck there was a story here in Chicago a couple years back a truck driver had invented some kind of device for people to pee into on the road. ANyhow, his patent attourney wound up stealing his idea and bringing it to market, the truck driver then busted into the lawyers office and shot him and his secretary I believe. It happens but likeothers have said have people sign a non disclosure and protect yourself as much as you can. Really though bringing an invention to market requires a lot of capital and is a huge risk so unless something is so incredibly unique it's one of a kind and sure to be a hit I doubt anyone would steal the idea.

This is something I've been trying to tell my buddy, he's so fearful of people stealing his ideas he won't work with CAD drawers or welders or anyone to help him build this product and obviously he doesn't have the equipment or skillsets to do it on his own. I've told him an invention you keep to yourself is never going to make money if you do nothing with it, at least take a chance and try to do something with it. I doubt anyone would steal any of his ideas anyway lol

Post: #4

I run a business that has brought a number of products to market successfully, and our client list has a number of globally recognised names on it.

Monster's post was an excellent one.

I'm in the process of bringing a new product with a lot of potential to market. I understand the concern about it 'being ripped off', but as Monster said, the reality is that anyone with the clout to make it successful would rather just buy you. It's just happened to us, that a famous (within the industry) NYSE listed firm have expressed an interest in buying us, because we are congruent with their own offering.

Successful companies are too busy perpetuating their own already successful products, and doing their own planned innovation, to suddenly, on a whim, assign a chunk of pre-planned budget and a team of engineers to steal the unproven idea of a nobody (I don't mean that in an offensive way, simply that if you were already Elon Musk, you probably wouldn't be here asking).

All that said, I trained as a lawyer, and my free, non-legally binding advice if you are UK based is to apply for a patent, however spurious. It can take years for a decision to be made, during which time there are tax incentives that you can take advantage of. The main advantage, to my mind, of a patent if you are producing something that isn't so unique that it'll revolutionise an entire industry (some niche car part that will make a 10% efficiency saving for all manufacturers, for example), is that you can use it to threaten potential competitors of about your own level, and discourage them from getting started at the same time. I am in the process of taking out a patent on my new product, but because it is an electronic device, all someone really has to do is move around the LEDs or some capacitors to get around the patent. I don't believe it has much actual value once you get to court. Where it does have value is in the legitimate threat of tying up a company with limited resources in an expensive legal battle.

As the others have said, how you execute your first commercial run, and subsequent sales strategy, will be the defining factor in your success. Protect yourself as best you can, take advantage of any tax breaks you can, but ultimately, if you can reach critical mass early, then everything will be much easier for you as a result.

Post: #5

I have an idea for a cheap marketable product that would fit perfectly in the infomercial segment.

Thing is, it is not a new invention, but merely a repurposing of a very cheap, very ubiquitous useless product that was everywhere a few years back as promotional items. You probably have a couple of them in your house right now. Its so common I could do a google search for "item + in bulk" and find a dozen manufacturers that could deliver 10000 of them by next week.

The new use I have for them is something everyone could need. Something you could keep in a drawer for years and just pop out whenever you need it. It is something that would be useful in any household. One of those things you dont realize you needed until you use one, and once you use one you cant figure out how you used to go without one.

So, can one get a patent (or secure commercial rights for that particular application) for an already existing product that doesnt need any changes or improvements to work?

Post: #6

(09-23-2015 05:43 PM)germanico Wrote:  I have an idea for a cheap marketable product that would fit perfectly in the infomercial segment.

Thing is, it is not a new invention, but merely a repurposing of a very cheap, very ubiquitous useless product that was everywhere a few years back as promotional items. You probably have a couple of them in your house right now. Its so common I could do a google search for "item + in bulk" and find a dozen manufacturers that could deliver 10000 of them by next week.

The new use I have for them is something everyone could need. Something you could keep in a drawer for years and just pop out whenever you need it. It is something that would be useful in any household. One of those things you dont realize you needed until you use one, and once you use one you cant figure out how you used to go without one.

So, can one get a patent (or secure commercial rights for that particular application) for an already existing product that doesnt need any changes or improvements to work?

I don't know where you're from or whether the patent laws are different there, but basically, no. The law prevents you from protecting a 'mere idea' - ie you actually have to 'invent' something. If that thing is already in the public domain (the invention itself) then it constitutes 'public knowledge' and can't, by definition, constitute a secret invention.

Repurposing something by definition could not, and would never be allowed to be, patentable. If you think about the implication of that:

You have this fantastic idea about how to use an existing product differently. You do not modify, or in anyway adapt that product (sticking a few LEDs or fluffy tassles on it doesn't count). If you are granted a patent, it is for the invention itself, not the idea behind its application. If you were to be granted a patent over a product that was already in mass circulation, you would, under patent laws, have a right to sue anyone who infringed your patent - that would potentially include the manufacturers of the product that gave you the idea in the first place. You could effectively retrospectively put them out of business. Part of patent law (I believe, it wasn't my specialism) is set up to protect businesses from this kind of unscrupulous behaviour.

If they already had a patent, and you applied for, and were granted a patent because your idea was different, but the invention the same, what would happen when the object, bought for the purpose of doing what you intend it to be used for, is actually used for the original company's purpose? Do you have a right to sue for breaching your IP?

You can imagine how complicated the scenarios could get if what you are suggesting were allowed...

Post: #7

It is extremely hard to sell a new product to a company (even with a patent) without a proven sales record.
The big dollar acquisitions are usually established smaller companies whove been around a long time and have cash flow already coming in, there's no reason for them to buy a product by itself.
probably in the 90s and early 2000s you would have a better chance at a company maybe writing you a check 500k-5 million or whatever for your design, but in the current market conditions companies are extremely cautious with their money. If they risk their money it's going to be an acquisition that already has cash flow.

Even if they like your product, often times the managers who meet with you might not even have authority from their CFO to just write you a large check for your product. They are taking a huge leap with no guarantee of return.

I know this because I'm trying to sell a product w/out a patent right now and a few large companies have flat out told me they like it but without an immediate new cash flow its a risk to them.

The noose is really tightening economically, if you're going to start a small biz and try and sell it for a couple million you better do it fast because I foresee shit only getting worse from here on out, and the billion dollar companies you want to sell to will be less willing to take risks w/ their cash.

There are, however, a lot of forward-thinking rich companies (like Apple, Halliburton, etc) who spend over $500million a year on a research budget alone. They realize technology patents and new tech will win them more business in the future. These types of companies who spend big on research are your best bet because they recognize the value of taking risks on new ideas.

So if you want to sell a new technology / product, focus on contacting companies who spend a lot on R &D. find their middle managers on LinkedIn and email them, so you bypass the secretary filters. LinkedIn is the best way to contact the development managers you need to show your product to.

Post: #8

Germanico, are "Tazos" still hot?

I remember Pokemon Tazos being the hot stuff a while back

Post: #9

delete

Post: #10

(09-24-2015 12:21 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  Germanico, are "Tazos" still hot?

I remember Pokemon Tazos being the hot stuff a while back

Incredibly, after more than 20 years, Tazos are still a thing.

Post: #11

(09-23-2015 09:38 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  I'm in the process of bringing a new product with a lot of potential to market. I understand the concern about it 'being ripped off', but as Monster said, the reality is that anyone with the clout to make it successful would rather just buy you. It's just happened to us, that a famous (within the industry) NYSE listed firm have expressed an interest in buying us, because we are congruent with their own offering.

Keep in mind that dynamic shifts significantly once you have multiple parties holding equity. There ARE businesses out there (typically Private Equity Firms) that specialize in making a profit through acquiring and then later divesting firms.

However that's only something you need to worry about much, much farther down the line.


If you ask me I think it's mostly a moot point until you get a patent taken care of. Once you have that process set in motion then it's time to start worrying about your supply chain operations and marketing.

Post: #12

I would read into the Maker movement and decide if it would be wiser to open source your design and skip the patent. If your product is something you can build a loyal community around its a viable model; if it's something you'd be selling exclusively to other companies then not so much.

Post: #13

(09-27-2015 02:51 AM)KevCapitalist Wrote:  I would read into the Maker movement and decide if it would be wiser to open source your design and skip the patent. If your product is something you can build a loyal community around its a viable model; if it's something you'd be selling exclusively to other companies then not so much.

That's the direction I'm going with a language curriculum product. The idea I'm developing is, in my opinion, completely unpatentable. It's simply a highly effective technique for teaching languages quickly and efficiently.

If successful, I fully expect the system to be stolen by people who may or may not implement it correctly.

Therefore, my strategy is simply to do an open source release of the curriculum and use that to grow a brand which can be use to successful market complementary services that cannot easily be ripped off.

Most importantly, I plan to be the sole provider of licensing. Therefore, anyone can use my curriculum, but only licensed clients will be recommended under my brand.

I can offer this at a price point that provides me with sufficient income, but won't be a serious burden to clients who have a much larger scale. My strategy is have a strong enough brand that I can refer a significant number of students to the client schools.

The client schools will therefore have a strong incentive to pay for licensing.

Any feedback on this approach?

Post: #14

(09-27-2015 03:57 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(09-27-2015 02:51 AM)KevCapitalist Wrote:  I would read into the Maker movement and decide if it would be wiser to open source your design and skip the patent. If your product is something you can build a loyal community around its a viable model; if it's something you'd be selling exclusively to other companies then not so much.

That's the direction I'm going with a language curriculum product. The idea I'm developing is, in my opinion, completely unpatentable. It's simply a highly effective technique for teaching languages quickly and efficiently.

If successful, I fully expect the system to be stolen by people who may or may not implement it correctly.

Therefore, my strategy is simply to do an open source release of the curriculum and use that to grow a brand which can be use to successful market complementary services that cannot easily be ripped off.

Most importantly, I plan to be the sole provider of licensing. Therefore, anyone can use my curriculum, but only licensed clients will be recommended under my brand.

I can offer this at a price point that provides me with sufficient income, but won't be a serious burden to clients who have a much larger scale. My strategy is have a strong enough brand that I can refer a significant number of students to the client schools.

The client schools will therefore have a strong incentive to pay for licensing.

Any feedback on this approach?

Post: #15

I will strongly suggest Stephen Key blog and book. He is the gold standard.

http://www.inventright.com/stephen-key-blog


One Simple Idea: Turn your Dreams into a Licensing Goldmine While Letting Others Do the Work by Stephen Key

http://www.amazon.com/One-Simple-Idea-Li...1491581077

One Simple Idea for Startups and Entrepreneurs: Live Your Dreams and Create Your Own Profitable Company by Stephen Key

http://www.amazon.com/One-Simple-Idea-St...TEZJWC85EA

.

Post: #16

Cool thread.



Anyone reading this should read How To Get Rich by Felix Dennis, it was recommended by WallStreetPlayboys in 2014 , great book. My main takeaway was what monster said:

(09-22-2015 10:12 PM)monster Wrote:  The truth of the matter is the execution is much more important than the idea.

As far as the patent - I had an idea a year ago that would require a patent, and started doing homework on the patent process. If I remember correctly it wouldn't cost nearly as much as expected, and wouldn't take too long. Even if it does..."patent pending" still holds a lot of value.

Post: #17

So is it better to sell your invention to a company that has the needs to mass produce an something you invented or worry about that yourself? I don't want to run my own business, I would rather just collect royalties.

I have a few ideas at the moment and the means to create prototypes but I'm just not sure which direction to go after I have a patent.