Post: #1

I was striking up a conversation with a Latino man the other day.

After the conversation a Scotsman approaches me and says "You know, He should be speaking to you English not in Spanish. This is America. I know Gaelic but I don't go around speaking it."

I told him I happen to enjoy learning and speaking a second language. He scoffed it off.

I had a similar experience with my Arabic. I was striking a conversation with a fellow American and talking about hobbies and discussed my language learning interests.

He said, "I guess you're preparing for the incoming of terrorists."

I simply don't understand people's complaints over second languages in the United States. Historically the need to understand English is more important than knowing a second language. The available jobs grows significantly when you know English language.

Why do people have a fear of foreign languages?

Post: #2

As an American, I do get a bit annoyed when I call american companies and the first message is in spanish and the second message is in English. Why are we catering to them? Why do I have to dig through a bunch of options to get to the english language directory for bank of america?

In china, everyone speaks chinese and if you don't speak chinese then learn chinese, get some chinese friends to help you out or get the fuck out.

I respect that.

It's their country and why would they need to speak any language other than Chinese to get by?

I don't think people fear second languages, but it's fucking annoying when you live in a country and see that everything is being catered to people who don't speak your language in your country. Yes, America doesn't have an "official" language, but we all know what's up at the end of the day.

Post: #3

There's nothing wrong with being bilingual, or occasionally/socially speaking other non dominant languages. In America or other countries.

But pandering to Spanish speakers in America is harmful to...Spanish speakers themselves. It's harmful because the more schools and services there are that are offered in Spanish the less English Spanish first-language people will learn. Now you can make all sorts of "diversity" arguments, from the "left" "right" or anywhere else, but the cold hard reality is that in The America of today, yesterday and tomorrow a Spanish only speaker is/was/will be at a massive disadvantage compared to an English only speaker. This is not a judgement of Spanish as a language or Hispanic(never really got this term) people as a people/culture. It just is how things are, were and will be. Based on knowledge of the present and past and reasonable forecasts of the future.

Now of course there are all sorts of political and administrative people who will feign belief that this isn't so. That in the (near) future a Spanish only speaker in America, or one who speaks English poorly, will have just the same chance as native/competent English speakers. But this is just crass pandering. They know very well it is not going to be the case.

So, it's important, actually critical, to the futures of Spanish people in the US to learn English. And this is going to be more difficult if services and schools are offered in Spanish only. They are basically being consigned to a Ghetto. I'm well aware there may be people very happy there. But opportunities will be much more limited.

Post: #4

People aren't fearing the language, they're fearing you because you're bilingual. You're simply making them feel uncomfortable because it's equivalent to whispering about someone with someone else when they're looking. They feel uncomfortable because they don't understand what you're saying. It's one of those biological protection mechanisms. Even when dogs hear sounds they're not familiar with, they cock their heads back and forth like "what the fuck"

Post: #5

Yeah I never understood it.

Not even foreign languages, but they're afraid of foreigners period.

Everywhere around the world, for example when I was in China, people went out of their way to find someone who spoke English, went out of their way to communicate with me and make me feel comfortable. I remember I went to a restaurant in Beijing, and the waitress was patient enough to bear 30 minutes with me and she didn't complain. People in China wanted to practice their English with me. I was treated really well.

Will a Chinese person or a Latino person expect the same treatment from Americans? Probably not. In America, speak English or GTF out, the thinking goes. American Exceptionalism. The whole world revolves around us and all that jazz. People in Europe on average know up to 3 languages. Its normal to them.

Also when I'm in that situation where for example one person you speak Spanish with and the other English. I always give the person who isn't bi-lingual the benefit of the doubt out of respect. In you're situation, if the Latino guy knew English, I would have spoken English with him. But the Scot guy needed to chill out as well. Why did he care? I would have told him to mind his own business and keep walking.

Post: #6

I disagree chapo? How long were you in China? They are VERY much a "speak chinese or GTFO" kind of place.

As far as americans being annoyed when you don't speak english in america, why is that a bad thing? Most citizens there speak a language and they expect to be catered to in the country where they pay taxes, own property and vote. Why should they suddenly have to cater to some "no habla inglis" person? It's exceptionalism to want people in your country to speak your language or get the fuck out?


I'm currently in china learning the language. It's a lot of fun, so I don't want you guys thinking I hate second languages or anything like that.

Post: #7

(09-16-2015 05:35 PM)EL CHAPO Wrote:  Everywhere around the world, for example when I was in China, people went out of their way to find someone who spoke English, went out of their way to communicate with me and make me feel comfortable. I remember I went to a restaurant in Beijing, and the waitress was patient enough to bear 30 minutes with me and she didn't complain. People in China wanted to practice their English with me. I was treated really well.

Yeah Fortis I've seen this phenomena many times while overseas. It depends on how badly the locals want to learn English. Maybe Shenzhen is more insular than some places but in Germany for instance learning the language is going to be a huge pain in the ass because the second they figure out you're American (unless you have accent mastery nailed this will take under five minutes) pretty much everybody wants to practice English.

Post: #8

Shenzhen isn't insular. It's a city with 15 million people situated between Hong Kong and Guangzhou. I'm just saying that after 4 months here I am not finding that the people here are really that interested in speaking english with you unless they're a student or something or have an interest in going abroad.

Let me put it to you this way. More often than not, someone on the street will cold approach me and ramble in cantonese and mandarin for a minute or two, asking for directions to this place or that. Then, when they realize I have no fucking clue what they're going on about they'll switch to broken english, get their directions and be on their way. The first assumption there is that despite the fact that I'm a foreigner I must speak chinese even though I'm clearly not from china.

Are there people who will cold approach you on the train or on the street to speak with you sometimes? Yes, of course, but the general rule here is definitely "speak chinese, make friends who speak english or go drink by yourself." Maybe others have had vastly different experiences in china from me, which is fine, but even in countries where people speak your language and their language, I have found that they really prefer it when you speak their language.

I don't think that is entitlement, it is just common sense.

Post: #9

I spent a week in Moscow two years ago. Nobody got impatient with me because I couldn't (and still can barely) speak Russian.

Post: #10

(09-16-2015 10:27 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Shenzhen isn't insular. It's a city with 15 million people situated between Hong Kong and Guangzhou. I'm just saying that after 4 months here I am not finding that the people here are really that interested in speaking english with you unless they're a student or something or have an interest in going abroad.

Let me put it to you this way. More often than not, someone on the street will cold approach me and ramble in cantonese and mandarin for a minute or two, asking for directions to this place or that. Then, when they realize I have no fucking clue what they're going on about they'll switch to broken english, get their directions and be on their way. The first assumption there is that despite the fact that I'm a foreigner I must speak chinese even though I'm clearly not from china.

Are there people who will cold approach you on the train or on the street to speak with you sometimes? Yes, of course, but the general rule here is definitely "speak chinese, make friends who speak english or go drink by yourself." Maybe others have had vastly different experiences in china from me, which is fine, but even in countries where people speak your language and their language, I have found that they really prefer it when you speak their language.

I don't think that is entitlement, it is just common sense.

Well I'm not going to softball it, that's a magical opportunity to get really good at speaking Chinese. Maybe it would be a good idea to go over there before American culture completely trashes it

I agree though, in foreign countries the expectation should be on the immigrant to pick up the local language and customs. Otherwise they're just at too much of a disadvantage.

Post: #11

fear? really? Is that the right word?

Post: #12

^ Absolutely, Hades. I have learned a pretty good chunk of chinese since I got here just by chatting up random people and seeing if they speak english.

Haha, I'm totally here in china to bring my trashy american pride there.

Post: #13

Every country I've gone to that people wanted to speak english to me instead of their native tongue I've been able to bang with ease partly because of my higher status as a native english speaker.

When foreigners can preferentially speak in non native tongues, it means they have higher status. And despite the current cuckery going on in the west, many people are still strangely against conferring automatic superior status on foreigners.

The personal self development you feel when attempting another language is great for you, but the status game doesn't stop just for you to practice.

Post: #14

The Chinese and Japanese don't give one shit about any other language, nobody seems to condemn them, yet in the U.S. we have to bend over backwards. Where I'm at in the U.S. all official stuff is in English, Spanish, Arabic and Hmong for christs sake.

The Japanese even put out signs saying "No Foreigners" in some shops. Imagine the shit storm SJW's would start if someone did that here.

Post: #15

Those who express openly their dislike (or fear) of foreign languages are concerned about a preservation of culture. I do agree with the need of immigrants to speak the language, I used to live in Miami and I met some cat from Nicaragua at the bus stop in Dade. We struck up a convo in the oppressive heat and he told me that he wants to learn English in his broken English. Hoping to reach some sort of language exchange accordance, I asked him how long he had been living in Miami for and he said 13 years which filled me with dismay.

How can you live in a country for 13 years and you can't converse fluently in the target language? If you put me in any country for that long and I can't speak the language fluently after that time period, shame on me.
One does find that in some anglo cities that they bend over backwards to absorb certain cultures and then some people take offense.

Toronto was a bad one for non conformity of immigrants, I knew people who had lived there for 20 years and their accent was thick enough to make soup for a family of 12.

This makes it bad for those actually because they can never ascend into society and must be confined to their cultural ghettos. Even though the hosting society claims that they are open minded, by allowing them to carry on their cultural norms to full extent with no switching enabled, they marginalise them and have them as some kind of novelty act..ooh look at our lovely immigrants and their lovely spicy dishes..it's like travelling..within the safety of our own country!
The immigrants thus never truly integrate.

Post: #16

We have a very popular saying among French-speaning Canadians:

How do you call someone who speaks 3 languages? -Trilingual
How do you call someone who speaks 2 languages? -Bilingual
How do you call someone who speaks 1 language? -American

Humans have a tendancy to reject the unknown before actually looking into it. A person who complains about you being bilingual / trilingual is, in 99.9% of all cases, unilingual.

Furthermore, I agree with the fact that when you go in a foreign country for a long-term stay, you need to learn their language. I live in Thailand, I learned Thai. It wasn't easy, but locals show a lot more respect when foreigners took time to learn their language.

I was always happy when the Thais helped me in English, because I always think, he is helping me, but he doesn't have to.

Post: #17

(09-16-2015 01:56 PM)LINUX Wrote:  People aren't fearing the language, they're fearing you because you're bilingual. You're simply making them feel uncomfortable because it's equivalent to whispering about someone with someone else when they're looking. They feel uncomfortable because they don't understand what you're saying. It's one of those biological protection mechanisms. Even when dogs hear sounds they're not familiar with, they cock their heads back and forth like "what the fuck"

After a decade in China my Chinese is fluent/near fluent. I speak Chinese in China because it's their country, though many young Chinese people want to learn English to leave China.

On the other hand when I'm in the USA Chinese people living here ought to speak English because it's our language. Tourists with a translator is different. Unless i greet them in Chinese and desire to speak that language speak the language of the land or GTFO.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
入乡随俗

Post: #18

Because they're difficult to learn, especially as an adult. Most people that take a foreign language course go to class once a week for 2 hours, this is not enough. You have a make it a part of your everyday life. I started learning spanish several years ago and wondered how long speaking like a semi illiterate child I could take. I've gotten better now, but I absolutely love the language and latin culture, so my motivation doesn't wane. For me, it's a life long journey.

I believe a lot of people would like to learn a second language, but once they realize it's a long row to hoe and just speaking english is easier, they throw in the towel.

Post: #19

(09-19-2015 03:54 PM)Carolinian Wrote:  Because they're difficult to learn, especially as an adult. Most people that take a foreign language course go to class once a week for 2 hours, this is not enough. You have a make it a part of your everyday life. I started learning spanish several years ago and wondered how long speaking like a semi illiterate child I could take. I've gotten better now, but I absolutely love the language and latin culture, so my motivation doesn't wane. For me, it's a life long journey.

I believe a lot of people would like to learn a second language, but once they realize it's a long row to hoe and just speaking english is easier, they throw in the towel.

Learning a new skill takes dedication. Learning how to box, learning MMA, learn how to sew, learning how to draw, same thing. No shortcuts to anything really.

Post: #20

Poly, I don't have the travel experience that everyone else has in this thread, but I took German in high school and continue to study it. When it comes up in conversation that I study German, almost everyone asks why I waste my time and if I plan to move to Germany.

I like learning it for fun but most Americans don't get that. How could I waste my time on Duolingo when ESPN and TMZ just posted about a new athlete that came out of the closet?

Don't let it get to you. Self improvement is a rare occurrence in this country.

Post: #21

I agree with other posters that outside of tourist purposes (I see nothing wrong with a spanish translate on for how to ride the train) we shouldnt cater to other languages, that being said, in terms of language abilty, the usa upper class has probably the worst language skills in the world.

@wi30 met a 22 year old germán girl recently who wasnt fluent and clearly had trouble understanding me. One day it might come in handy.

Post: #22

(09-16-2015 11:30 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  fear? really? Is that the right word?

Nope. It's definitely the wrong word.

Post: #23

(09-16-2015 10:38 PM)Krivo Wrote:  I spent a week in Moscow two years ago. Nobody got impatient with me because I couldn't (and still can barely) speak Russian.

That's because Russia doesn't have a lax immigration policy with crumbling borders that allows illegal aliens to flood over in scores from a country like Mexico which could lead to the balkanization of their country not to mention potential Islamic terrorists coming over disguised as said Mexican immigrants.

America does and Americans know it.

I'm not uncomfortable per se around foreign speakers. There's just a different political reality going on in the USA now and the west in general than in a place like Russia. Case in point, the decline of western Europe because of the influx of moslem refugees. That's one reason Putin is so loved there for the most part. He's protecting the borders and culture of Mother Russia.

Post: #24

(09-17-2015 12:23 AM)Moma Wrote:  Those who express openly their dislike (or fear) of foreign languages are concerned about a preservation of culture. I do agree with the need of immigrants to speak the language, I used to live in Miami and I met some cat from Nicaragua at the bus stop in Dade. We struck up a convo in the oppressive heat and he told me that he wants to learn English in his broken English. Hoping to reach some sort of language exchange accordance, I asked him how long he had been living in Miami for and he said 13 years which filled me with dismay.

How can you live in a country for 13 years and you can't converse fluently in the target language? If you put me in any country for that long and I can't speak the language fluently after that time period, shame on me.
One does find that in some anglo cities that they bend over backwards to absorb certain cultures and then some people take offense.

Toronto was a bad one for non conformity of immigrants, I knew people who had lived there for 20 years and their accent was thick enough to make soup for a family of 12.

This makes it bad for those actually because they can never ascend into society and must be confined to their cultural ghettos. Even though the hosting society claims that they are open minded, by allowing them to carry on their cultural norms to full extent with no switching enabled, they marginalise them and have them as some kind of novelty act..ooh look at our lovely immigrants and their lovely spicy dishes..it's like travelling..within the safety of our own country!
The immigrants thus never truly integrate.

Let me play devil's advocate here.

The same happens with western expats when they move abroad. Most of expats I have met here in DR (some lived here for many years), can't speak any Spanish and they don't want to be part in any way or form of the local culture.

I had close friends in London that used to go to France on holidays and they would be mad at the person serving in the local Macdonalds for not being able to speak English, they used to be like ''how come she doesn't speak any English, that's just stupid''. How can you expect someone from France to speak English if they are in their own territory and they have their own language and culture.

The anglo-saxon culture simply looks down on other cultures, there is a sense of superiority in it that makes them believe that they are superior to other cultures and have no need to learn their culture or language.

Post: #25

People in the US aren't afraid of a foreign language, we are sick of our country being invaded by 30 million illegal immigrants who come here, fuck shit up, and take government handouts.

Them refusing to learn English is just one of the easiest ways to identify them.