(09-15-2015 06:32 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Yeah but Trump wall keeps out Mexicans. Most of them are great.

If they are so great they can stay in their own country and help make it prosper. Win, win.

They have their own country and land, with people who share their language and culture. Why should people here be forced to accept others who have no interest in becoming American in culture or language, make money and send it away from the country and keep down wages because they will happily work illegally for cash?

It's like people think, " well every city in America doesn't look like India with overcrowding so that proves the USA is obligated to take tens of millions of people until it does."

All the people I hang with are German, Polish , Dutch , French , Scandinavian but if we lined up I bet you couldn't say who was which ethnicity. We are all American. That's what people are angry about. Not saving 30 cents on tomatoes or whatever if Hispanic labor left.

(09-15-2015 07:39 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:..buses in Serbia are said to be preparing to take refugees to Croatia.

Has Serbia gone mad? They can't find a better solution than to antagonize a neighbor they were at war with only 20 years ago?

Serbia sending buses of illegal migrants to arch-enemy Croatia

Serbia threatening to use its army against Hungary, to prevent Hungarian soldiers from sending back the migrants...

Germany suspending Schengen and Merkel threatening to soon "use all the torture tools" against "rebellious" EE countries

Austria urgently mobilizing troops, to deal with the illegal migrants ( http://actu.orange.fr/monde/l-autriche-v...dTiL3.html )

Time to use the forum's favorite Ron Paul's meme:

(09-15-2015 07:39 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:..buses in Serbia are said to be preparing to take refugees to Croatia.

Has Serbia gone mad? They can't find a better solution than to antagonize a neighbor they were at war with only 20 years ago?

It's 2015: Everyone has gone mad.

http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index...weden.html

Finland seems to have closed its border with Sweden.

Europe is collapsing like a house of cards just like it did in 1914. We might be seeing something akin to the July Crisis right now.

Will it lead to war? No. But I hope it will lead to the collapse of the EU.

Good thing Hungary is NATO?

Austria is shutting its border with Hungary.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/hu...07010.html

It's like a game of hot potato and Serbia doesn't want to get stuck with the bag.

Landlines in Croatia

From the 'Dear refugees: Welcome to Croatia Community' Facebook page:

Quote:Landmines in Croatia
Refugees are coming form Serbia to Croatia , Please make attention there is some land in Croatia had Minefield, many minefields were not marked ...so tread carefully and stick to clearly visible roads, highway and railway and local roads are totally secure...!

(09-15-2015 07:55 PM)Libertas Wrote:  http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index...weden.html

Finland seems to have closed its border with Sweden.

Europe is collapsing like a house of cards just like it did in 1914. We might be seeing something akin to the July Crisis right now.

Will it lead to war? No. But I hope it will lead to the collapse of the EU.

Things are not going in the direction Merkel was hoping for.

This is actually mirroring something Roosh wrote a while back - the best way to change the system is to make the elites have an incentive to change it for their own sake.

It's starting to become crystal clear now that the only way the EU will be able to survive in its present form is to deal with these "refugees." That means that the boats have to stop coming.

Since Holy Roman Empress Frau Merkel and her puppet Juncker in Brussels are desperate to save the EU, they may now have an incentive to stop the boats and deport most of these "refugees" when their asylum claims inevitably turn up bogus.

(09-15-2015 06:32 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Yeah but Trump wall keeps out Mexicans. Most of them are great.

In summer of 1996 I got a knock on my door. When I answered it there was this 5'0'' 20 something year Hispanic woman who was going door to door looking for work. She spoke no English, but since I speak fluent Spanish I hired her to clean my house every two weeks. For the next two years she would ride the bus 1.5 hour every other Sat morning, after working a factory job all week. to clean my house, and I would then give her the 20 min car ride back to her house.

I learned that she had come to the US with her husband and four small children but shortly after they got here her husband abandoned her and the kids. So here she was, alone, no car, no money, unable to speak the language...all she had was the will to survive and make a better life for her kids

She took on numerous other housekeeping jobs in my neighborhood, and fast forward ...eventually bought a car, a house, became a US citizen, put two kids through college, has a 3rd one in college now. 19 years later Im now her only housekeeping client but she still works a full time job

The point of this anecdote is that while there undoubtedly bad apples looking to take advantage or abuse the system in the group of "illegal immigrants" as with any group it's my experience is that the vast majority come here highly motivated and with the best intentions.

I for one wish there was some way to "exchange" one hard word working honest illegal alien for one non productive societal leech, here "legally" based on merit. I don't know how it would work... but I wish Trump would come up with that plan rather than keep them all out. I have no housekeeping skills and I personally like paying $1.29 for a head of lettuce

(09-15-2015 08:03 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Austria is shutting its border with Hungary.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/hu...07010.html

It's like a game of hot potato and Serbia doesn't want to get stuck with the bag.

And as I posted earlier on this thread, FYROM is to build a fence along its Greek border. So, yes, Serbia gets the hot potato, and can't pass it on to any other State (not even back to Greece). But ultimately Serbia will build a fence, too, at its Bulgarian border, so, all the new-coming migrants will be stuck in... Greece, which is totally broke and a real powder keg...

Perfect storm is brewing.

(09-15-2015 07:23 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Orban is a great leader with balls. He has been vocal, just hope he doesn't end up like Haider (former Austrian PM)

Jörg Haider never was Austria´s prime minister. He was the leader of the right-wing FPÖ, governor of Carinthia, but never PM.
And if you are afraid that Orban will also die in a car crash he produced while driving at twice the allowed speed and being drunk, right after he´s had an argument with his boyfrie best friend, I´d say the probability of that happening is pretty low.

(09-15-2015 08:16 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(09-15-2015 08:03 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Austria is shutting its border with Hungary.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/hu...07010.html

It's like a game of hot potato and Serbia doesn't want to get stuck with the bag.

And as I posted earlier on this thread, FYROM is to build a fence along its Greek border. So, yes, Serbia gets the hot potato, and can't pass it on to any other State (not even back to Greece). But ultimately Serbia will build a fence, too, at its Bulgarian border, so, all the new-coming migrants will be stuck in... Greece, which is totally broke and a real powder keg...

Perfect storm is brewing.

And then Golden Dawn will inevitably take power.

You know, as bad as all this is, we cannot say it's not interesting.

Couldn't someone bring some wire cutters? Are the guards going to use billy clubs?

It seems like this response is still a very scared response. The least energy and commitment possible. Grabbing people, arresting them and throwing them back might scare people away. Wire cutters and hole, then it's back to square one.

(09-15-2015 08:03 PM)Nineteen84 Wrote:  From the 'Dear refugees: Welcome to Croatia Community' Facebook page

Quote:Landmines in Croatia
Refugees are coming form Serbia to Croatia , Please make attention there is some land in Croatia had Minefield, many minefields were not marked ...so tread carefully and stick to clearly visible roads, highway and railway and local roads are totally secure...!

@Nineteen84: You deleted the attached pictures?

(09-15-2015 07:49 PM)ball dont lie Wrote:  

(09-15-2015 06:32 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Yeah but Trump wall keeps out Mexicans. Most of them are great.

If they are so great they can stay in their own country and help make it prosper. Win, win.

They have their own country and land, with people who share their language and culture. Why should people here be forced to accept others who have no interest in becoming American in culture or language, make money and send it away from the country and keep down wages because they will happily work illegally for cash?

It's like people think, " well every city in America doesn't look like India with overcrowding so that proves the USA is obligated to take tens of millions of people until it does."

All the people I hang with are German, Polish , Dutch , French , Scandinavian but if we lined up I bet you couldn't say who was which ethnicity. We are all American. That's what people are angry about. Not saving 30 cents on tomatoes or whatever if Hispanic labor left.

The answer is obvious. We send the navy after our refugees and drop them off in Mexico while were building our new wall.

The Mexican people have lost a lot of men so well replenish them.

(09-15-2015 06:19 PM)UncleSam Wrote:  Beautiful, just beautiful:

But but, what about the drowning children?! I don't see a single child trying to be a refugee here, it is all young men.

(09-15-2015 08:11 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(09-15-2015 06:32 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Yeah but Trump wall keeps out Mexicans. Most of them are great.

In summer of 1996 I got a knock on my door. When I answered it there was this 5'0'' 20 something year Hispanic woman who was going door to door looking for work. She spoke no English, but since I speak fluent Spanish I hired her to clean my house every two weeks. For the next two years she would ride the bus 1.5 hour every other Sat morning, after working a factory job all week. to clean my house, and I would then give her the 20 min car ride back to her house.

I learned that she had come to the US with her husband and four small children but shortly after they got here her husband abandoned her and the kids. So here she was, alone, no car, no money, unable to speak the language...all she had was the will to survive and make a better life for her kids

She took on numerous other housekeeping jobs in my neighborhood, and fast forward ...eventually bought a car, a house, became a US citizen, put two kids through college, has a 3rd one in college now. 19 years later Im now her only housekeeping client but she still works a full time job

The point of this anecdote is that while there undoubtedly bad apples looking to take advantage or abuse the system in the group of "illegal immigrants" as with any group it's my experience is that the vast majority come here highly motivated and with the best intentions.

I for one wish there was some way to "exchange" one hard word working honest illegal alien for one non productive societal leech, here "legally" based on merit. I don't know how it would work... but I wish Trump would come up with that plan rather than keep them all out. I have no housekeeping skills and I personally like paying $1.29 for a head of lettuce

That's what I was talking about.

Replace "Mexican" with "Syrian"

Possible?

Trump takes a stance but if you can read between the lines it's a scare tactic. Most the legit people will stay here or streamline the process.

But again these guys are on our side of the world already.

(09-15-2015 08:11 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(09-15-2015 06:32 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Yeah but Trump wall keeps out Mexicans. Most of them are great.

In summer of 1996 I got a knock on my door. When I answered it there was this 5'0'' 20 something year Hispanic woman who was going door to door looking for work. She spoke no English, but since I speak fluent Spanish I hired her to clean my house every two weeks. For the next two years she would ride the bus 1.5 hour every other Sat morning, after working a factory job all week. to clean my house, and I would then give her the 20 min car ride back to her house.

I learned that she had come to the US with her husband and four small children but shortly after they got here her husband abandoned her and the kids. So here she was, alone, no car, no money, unable to speak the language...all she had was the will to survive and make a better life for her kids

She took on numerous other housekeeping jobs in my neighborhood, and fast forward ...eventually bought a car, a house, became a US citizen, put two kids through college, has a 3rd one in college now. 19 years later Im now her only housekeeping client but she still works a full time job

The point of this anecdote is that while there undoubtedly bad apples looking to take advantage or abuse the system in the group of "illegal immigrants" as with any group it's my experience is that the vast majority come here highly motivated and with the best intentions.

I for one wish there was some way to "exchange" one hard word working honest illegal alien for one non productive societal leech, here "legally" based on merit. I don't know how it would work... but I wish Trump would come up with that plan rather than keep them all out. I have no housekeeping skills and I personally like paying $1.29 for a head of lettuce

Cool story Papaya,

but what became of her former husband and the inevitable wreckage and leeching on the system he caused/is causing?

Did she pay back taxes and make legal amends for all those years of the records and grid?

If she put three kids in college, I wonder how that affects natives on class enrollment, college choice and price inflation in the larger scale.

See, even if she was an industrious and genuinely noble person, illegally emigrating still hurts the natives of hosts countries no matter how it's drawn up.

Her husband was an awful person who threw his responsibilities on the backs of the taxpayers and the robustness of the economy's opportunities. This act repeated en masse takes much opportunity and wealth from the legal inhabitants.

(09-15-2015 08:50 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(09-15-2015 08:11 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(09-15-2015 06:32 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Yeah but Trump wall keeps out Mexicans. Most of them are great.

In summer of 1996 I got a knock on my door. When I answered it there was this 5'0'' 20 something year Hispanic woman who was going door to door looking for work. She spoke no English, but since I speak fluent Spanish I hired her to clean my house every two weeks. For the next two years she would ride the bus 1.5 hour every other Sat morning, after working a factory job all week. to clean my house, and I would then give her the 20 min car ride back to her house.

I learned that she had come to the US with her husband and four small children but shortly after they got here her husband abandoned her and the kids. So here she was, alone, no car, no money, unable to speak the language...all she had was the will to survive and make a better life for her kids

She took on numerous other housekeeping jobs in my neighborhood, and fast forward ...eventually bought a car, a house, became a US citizen, put two kids through college, has a 3rd one in college now. 19 years later Im now her only housekeeping client but she still works a full time job

The point of this anecdote is that while there undoubtedly bad apples looking to take advantage or abuse the system in the group of "illegal immigrants" as with any group it's my experience is that the vast majority come here highly motivated and with the best intentions.

I for one wish there was some way to "exchange" one hard word working honest illegal alien for one non productive societal leech, here "legally" based on merit. I don't know how it would work... but I wish Trump would come up with that plan rather than keep them all out. I have no housekeeping skills and I personally like paying $1.29 for a head of lettuce

That's what I was talking about.

Replace "Mexican" with "Syrian"

Possible?

Trump takes a stance but if you can read between the lines it's a scare tactic. Most the legit people will stay here or streamline the process.

But again these guys are on our side of the world already.

He knows its not in our own best interests to completely shut the door. They all do

I think the biggest difference in the immigration issue here vs Europe though is the Islamic factor rather than nationality or even ethnicity. A basic premise of their ideology isn't to coexist and assimilate into the recieving culture but rather to convert it

(09-15-2015 06:33 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Are there details on how it was constructed?

Judging from the pictures and having had a few years experience building walls, I can tell you how it was built: poorly. A few people with bolt cutters can breach that "wall" in a matter of minutes. They could have that stretch of wall built out of 3500PSI concrete in a few days with modern methods.

Hungary's neighbor Austria is the home of Doka Formwork. Doka has factories in Austria and Hungary. The length of wall shown in that picture is about 300'. With a crew of 100 guys, proper logistical support, solid leadership, Doka Frami Double sided wall system, and a willingness to work 12 hour days, you could probably pour that stretch of wall starting on Monday morning, and finish up Wednesday evening with a wall 12"-14" thick and 18' high. You could have a wood crew follow hot on their heels to build watch towers every hundred yards.

(09-15-2015 07:55 PM)Libertas Wrote:  Will it lead to war? No.

I don't know about this. I'm half-expecting Merkel to be dead within six months. To be honest, a European War starting due to the actions of a wrinkled, mushroom-haired woman drawn to a position of power she's ill-equipped to handle browbeating everyone into accepting fairness seems the logical extension of my personal experiences within education, health and public service workplaces.

There is a classic Cult Of Personality being formed around Merkel: She's the 'Benevolent Guide leading society through its rough transformation into a better future' figure.



If you'd want to violently-destabilise Europe, you'd bring in hordes of immigrants who have already deified her, then violently-and-publicly-assassinate her and blame a nationalist party. Now you have a mass of angry people who have lost their 'God of Salvation' and who have no loyalty to their host country, whom they'd see as being the cause of her death.

It's a good thing they're all from a region that has a calm, responsible and peaceful reaction to frustrated desires.

(09-15-2015 09:15 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(09-15-2015 06:33 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Are there details on how it was constructed?

Judging from the pictures and having had a few years experience building walls, I can tell you how it was built: poorly. A few people with bolt cutters can breach that "wall" in a matter of minutes. They could have that stretch of wall built out of 3500PSI concrete in a few days with modern methods.

Hungary's neighbor Austria is the home of Doka Formwork. Doka has factories in Austria and Hungary. The length of wall shown in that picture is about 300'. With a crew of 100 guys, proper logistical support, solid leadership, Doka Frami Double sided wall system, and a willingness to work 12 hour days, you could probably pour that stretch of wall starting on Monday morning, and finish up Wednesday evening with a wall 12"-14" thick and 18' high. You could have a wood crew follow hot on their heels to build watch towers every hundred yards.

Sure but how much more would that cost? I think someone said this fence cost 200 Million? I don't think Hungary can afford a lot more.

(09-15-2015 09:15 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(09-15-2015 06:33 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Are there details on how it was constructed?

Judging from the pictures and having had a few years experience building walls, I can tell you how it was built: poorly. A few people with bolt cutters can breach that "wall" in a matter of minutes. They could have that stretch of wall built out of 3500PSI concrete in a few days with modern methods.

Hungary's neighbor Austria is the home of Doka Formwork. Doka has factories in Austria and Hungary. The length of wall shown in that picture is about 300'. With a crew of 100 guys, proper logistical support, solid leadership, Doka Frami Double sided wall system, and a willingness to work 12 hour days, you could probably pour that stretch of wall starting on Monday morning, and finish up Wednesday evening with a wall 12"-14" thick and 18' high. You could have a wood crew follow hot on their heels to build watch towers every hundred yards.

As I recall the fence they built is 175km long and had to be done in weeks.

Three days for 300 feet of wall...

Seriously, other than chuckling at your comparison, I'm finding your numbers rather inaccurate. 100 guys on a three hundred foot wall for three days? They could build that out of hand cut stone...

btw-I run railroad construction projects, including concrete bridges, so I have an idea of manpower needs.

(09-15-2015 08:59 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  

(09-15-2015 08:11 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(09-15-2015 06:32 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Yeah but Trump wall keeps out Mexicans. Most of them are great.

In summer of 1996 I got a knock on my door. When I answered it there was this 5'0'' 20 something year Hispanic woman who was going door to door looking for work. She spoke no English, but since I speak fluent Spanish I hired her to clean my house every two weeks. For the next two years she would ride the bus 1.5 hour every other Sat morning, after working a factory job all week. to clean my house, and I would then give her the 20 min car ride back to her house.

I learned that she had come to the US with her husband and four small children but shortly after they got here her husband abandoned her and the kids. So here she was, alone, no car, no money, unable to speak the language...all she had was the will to survive and make a better life for her kids

She took on numerous other housekeeping jobs in my neighborhood, and fast forward ...eventually bought a car, a house, became a US citizen, put two kids through college, has a 3rd one in college now. 19 years later Im now her only housekeeping client but she still works a full time job

The point of this anecdote is that while there undoubtedly bad apples looking to take advantage or abuse the system in the group of "illegal immigrants" as with any group it's my experience is that the vast majority come here highly motivated and with the best intentions.

I for one wish there was some way to "exchange" one hard word working honest illegal alien for one non productive societal leech, here "legally" based on merit. I don't know how it would work... but I wish Trump would come up with that plan rather than keep them all out. I have no housekeeping skills and I personally like paying $1.29 for a head of lettuce

Cool story Papaya,

but what became of her former husband and the inevitable wreckage and leeching on the system he caused/is causing?

Did she pay back taxes and make legal amends for all those years of the records and grid?

If she put three kids in college, I wonder how that affects natives on class enrollment, college choice and price inflation in the larger scale.

See, even if she was an industrious and genuinely noble person, illegally emigrating still hurts the natives of hosts countries no matter how it's drawn up.

Her husband was an awful person who threw his responsibilities on the backs of the taxpayers and the robustness of the economy's opportunities. This act repeated en masse takes much opportunity and wealth from the legal inhabitants.

The husband came back around a few years later trying to worm his way back in and she told him to fuck off. He now has a landscaping business and the one kid that didnt go to college works with / for him.

She like most of the ones I know PAID taxes from day one. I know because her tax guy called me and asked me for a 1099. I remember it like it was yesterday. She was never ever on public assistance. Over the course of 19 years she's borrowed $200 and $600 from me on two separate occasions because of emergencies but promptly paid me back .

Look I'm not saying there aren't problems. Edit: Nor am I advocating NOT controlling immigration. It's a very complex issue. All I'm saying is that to paint the issue with ANY broad brush is counter productive and naive.

It's easy to rile emotions and get people fired up with "Stop all illegal immigration, build a wall,...fuck yeah" speeches but the truth is Trump and everyone else with real understanding of the underlying issues know that it's not that simple.

EDIT: It wasn't my intention to derail this thread on European migration with a discussion on US immigration issues