Post: #51

I'm 26 now and would want to be with a woman for at least 3 years beforehand so I'd say early 30's sounds good and marrying a girl about a decade younger.

Post: #52

This answer will vary from guy to guy from time to time. As I've gotten older (mid twenties now), I've settled on a 12-20 year plan that will see me able to settle down at anywhere from 35 to 45. I'm going to stick to that plan unless I am pleasantly surprised by a great potential partner who shows up earlier than anticipated (unlikely, but never say never).

5 years ago I would have told you I sought to settle at 25-30, and during the last 5 years I made several passes at a couple of women I had hoped to do that settling with. I was unsuccessful, and in hindsight that may have been the best outcome for me (depressing as the whole experience was). Experience has a way of altering one's perspective on matters like these.

(08-25-2015 07:06 PM)BasketBounce Wrote:  dudes are saying to wait until late 30s to early 40s to get married, and I understand that vibe. Stack up the paper, travel the world, mess with women so that you don't get hoodwinked by their duplicitous ways. I've read enough of The Rational Male blog to get this idea.

Is it really that easy to get an early 20s GF in, say, Mexico or Spain? Especially if you are a foreigner and a different race from the girl.

I just don't see a 42 y/o Asian man pulling a Venezuelan woman in her prime just because he is rich and has game. I don't see a black American pulling a half French/half Moroccan bombshell just because he has some money. i dunno, seems like a hail mary to me...

If you're an older black American male with some money and you insist on pulling a half French/half Moroccan bombshell in her early twenties then yes, you've created a big challenge for yourself.

If you're an older black American male with some money and you're open to women from multiple parts of the world in which wider age gaps are more tolerated than they are in the USA (ex: most of Latin America, much of South and East Asia, most of Eastern Europe, the Caribbean, etc) and don't mind if they're perhaps a little bit older than their early twenties (say, 25 to 30), you're dealing with a different story altogether. There are many very viable options open to such a man if he's willing to avail himself of them.

Quote:There are other men out there in these other countries that not only have money, but also have a similar upbringing and social connections that most foreign men simply can't compete with.

You don't need to outdo the local male elite to get at quality women in most parts of the world. There's plenty to go around.

Quote:Can you imagine the amount of effort it would take to fully integrate within an entirely new country? Adapt to a a new set of laws?

This will vary by country. It might take longer for an American to adapt to life in, say, Japan than it would in a place like the Philippines (one of the more Americanized countries on Earth).

Quote:You'd definitely have to sever ties with your family in your home country...none of that vacationing back home for weeks at a time.

Not so sure about this. Plenty of expats maintain ties with relatives back home and take extended trips back as well.

Quote:I'm not saying that a foreign LTR is undesirable, but I think some guys here may be romanticizing the idea of getting married to a foreign wife.

There is a definitely a "grass is greener" phenomenon associated with this topic of the foreign wife. That being said, looking abroad still makes sense for many men who are willing to do the leg work and make informed decisions. Not every man is willing to do that leg work (these are the men who will either stay put or get screwed when they go abroad), but those who are can expect pretty solid odds of a decent reward if they play their cards right.

Quote:If we're are talking about Western men finding wives, I honestly think men are better off finding a "cute-enough" wife who has some rock-solid values.A girl-next-door type chick that comes from the kind of family that YOU want create.

This is probably good advice for a lot of guys to take. It is also more reason for some men to travel, as the odds of their finding such a woman improve in locations outside of the USA. There are more of these women per capita in Jamaica or the Philippines than there are in NYC or Washington DC.

Quote:I think we should spend our 20s and 30s travelling and attempting to have LTRs with foreign women as a learning experience. That way you learn just how much value you have as a man relative to a woman. You learn how a bitch thats with it will respect and adore her man. Using that knowledge, you can better judge whether an American woman is LTR material.

This is novel. The common wisdom on the board tends to run contrary to this (practice here, LTR abroad as opposed to practice abroad, LTR here) but if an American LTR is your long-term goal for whatever reason, this may not be a bad way to go about it.

Just be careful to make sure that all of those LTRs abroad don't have you swearing off the American dating scene altogether when you come back and find the quality/quantity of LTR material in the American dating pool inadequate relative to what exists abroad. This is a common outcome for men who gain extensive experience dating outside of the country - it gets harder for some of them to come back and motivate themselves to keep gaming here.

Maybe you won't have this issue, but it is something to keep in mind.

Quote:Eventually, I'll settle down with a young, American woman who comes from a good, patriarchal type family. Her father should be the kind of older man that most guys here on the forum would want to emulate. She'll have a good relationship with her Dad. These are the qualities that I imagine that I'll want in twenty years...

Good luck, man, I think you're going to need it. That's a lot for a brotha to ask for in the USA. Hopefully you beat the odds.

If you don't, you should still be fine with all the knowledge available to you here.

Post: #53

I'd criticize the graph. There's no way males' social value has exactly the same amount of variance as females' value. Imagine a 22 year old Stanford Law student. Sure, he hasn't made any money yet, but an 18 year old girl will know that this guy is going to be rich. He'll have no problem at all sleeping with girls in the 18-22 bracket. In the US at least, that guy will have a much harder time with many 18-22 year olds when he is 36 due to the age gap. He'll only be doing better if he was aspie at 22 and then learned game, or really became a millionare. But the game he probably learned by 28, and was probably already pulling down $160k by the age of 26. Thus, I don't see a case for a male ascent from 30 to 36 the same as the slope of the female descent from 25 to 30...

The factor that does increase from the age of 30 to 35 is the potential age gap with girls. Even once you turn 45, you'll find some 20 year olds who will sleep with you, but you won't pull at that age bracket in the US like you would at the age of 29. However, at 29 you can only marry a girl 11 years younger than you, whereas at 45 you can marry a girl who will only be 33 when you are 60. Because of this, the later 30s might be optimal for marriage, but unlikely your SMV will be dramatically higher by then.

Post: #54

(08-27-2015 01:28 PM)_Cicero Wrote:  I'd criticize the graph. There's no way males' social value has exactly the same amount of variance as females' value. Imagine a 22 year old Stanford Law student. Sure, he hasn't made any money yet, but an 18 year old girl will know that this guy is going to be rich. He'll have no problem at all sleeping with girls in the 18-22 bracket.

You're giving these girls too much credit. Young, attractive (and even unattractive, for that matter) 18-22 year old girls don't care where you go to school. They are not evaluating men on the basis of their long term earning potential - they want finished products, not possibilities. Graduate campuses at schools like Harvard, Yale, and Duke aren't being swarmed by hot young 18-22 year olds looking to snag a husband and students at the Law/Business/Med schools there are not drowning in pools of hot 18-22 year old options.

Your degree is not going to drop panties. These girls are, first and foremost, looking for young guys who can turn them on, show them a good time, and impress their friends. These traits are not at all strongly correlated with earning potential.

If you have good game then your degree is a plus, but a guy in that age group with good game would be doing well with or without the Stanford degree (the kid at San Diego Law with the same game and all else being equal can get very similar results). If he has "no problem at all" attracting women in that age bracket, it won't be because of his degree.

Quote:In the US at least, that guy will have a much harder time with many 18-22 year olds when he is 36 due to the age gap.

Your typical Stanford Law student is going to have a much wider range of attractive options at 36 than he will at 22. Unlike his 22 year old self, he'll have the option of not only pursuing 18-22 year olds (with the benefit of resources he didn't have at 22) but also 22-30 year olds, a range that includes a large number of very attractive women who are more likely to give a damn about his academic pedigree and income/future earning potential than your standard teenaged co-ed. He will have more resources (making the pursuit of all women, including the 18-22 year olds, substantially easier), more experience, and likely higher confidence levels (thanks to the extra 10+ years of social and professional experience) at 36 as well. The odds are that he'll be better off in pretty much every way.

Post: #55

I agree a 36 year old guy will have more options, due to improvement in game and income, than a 22 year old. This isn't what I was arguing. I argue that the slope of the increase, particularly from 30 to 35, is not at all symmetric to the collapse in a woman's value over the 25 to 30 range. (in fact, the graph has a steeper rise from 30 to 35 than the same decline for women over that period -- that sounds to me even more wrong).

In california, once I entered my mid 30s and started balding, age suddenly became an issue with some college girls, though not all. And, even in Russia, where larger age gaps are common, I match with way more girls on Tinder in the 18 to 22 bracket saying I'm 29 than when i was 35. While this is just one observation, I did it on the recommendation of others, including a 38 year old who says he's 28 on OK Cupid/Tinder, but said he couldn't match with too many 19 year olds being 38.

Again, i agree that a 36 guy will have a higher SMV than a 30 year old, but is it dramatically higher of the same proportion as the collapse of a woman who goes from 25 to 30? I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

(08-28-2015 02:26 AM)Excelsior Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 01:28 PM)_Cicero Wrote:  I'd criticize the graph. There's no way males' social value has exactly the same amount of variance as females' value. Imagine a 22 year old Stanford Law student. Sure, he hasn't made any money yet, but an 18 year old girl will know that this guy is going to be rich. He'll have no problem at all sleeping with girls in the 18-22 bracket.

You're giving these girls too much credit. Young, attractive (and even unattractive, for that matter) 18-22 year old girls don't care where you go to school. They are not evaluating men on the basis of their long term earning potential - they want finished products, not possibilities. Graduate campuses at schools like Harvard, Yale, and Duke aren't being swarmed by hot young 18-22 year olds looking to snag a husband and students at the Law/Business/Med schools there are not drowning in pools of hot 18-22 year old options.

Your degree is not going to drop panties. These girls are, first and foremost, looking for young guys who can turn them on, show them a good time, and impress their friends. These traits are not at all strongly correlated with earning potential.

If you have good game then your degree is a plus, but a guy in that age group with good game would be doing well with or without the Stanford degree (the kid at San Diego Law with the same game and all else being equal can get very similar results). If he has "no problem at all" attracting women in that age bracket, it won't be because of his degree.

Quote:In the US at least, that guy will have a much harder time with many 18-22 year olds when he is 36 due to the age gap.

Your typical Stanford Law student is going to have a much wider range of attractive options at 36 than he will at 22. Unlike his 22 year old self, he'll have the option of not only pursuing 18-22 year olds (with the benefit of resources he didn't have at 22) but also 22-30 year olds, a range that includes a large number of very attractive women who are more likely to give a damn about his academic pedigree and income/future earning potential than your standard teenaged co-ed. He will have more resources (making the pursuit of all women, including the 18-22 year olds, substantially easier), more experience, and likely higher confidence levels (thanks to the extra 10+ years of social and professional experience) at 36 as well. The odds are that he'll be better off in pretty much every way.