Post: #26

(08-17-2015 09:47 AM)heavy Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 08:46 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 08:04 AM)heavy Wrote:  I have no doubt some of the guys from this list were never into sports:
Leonardo DiCaprio
Ben Affleck
Justin Bieber
George Clooney

Bieber is a total insecure nerd, reflected in his career damaging decisions to get silly tattoos and attempts to act like he's "hood." He's a total pouser.

I'd even go a step further and say his beta-ness is what's going to destroy his career. The kid had some talent, but he's so insecure that he decided to throw it all away in lame attempts to seek approval from dudes who are actually alphas.

He's the kid in high school who no one actually likes, but his parents have a big house with a pool and they let us throw parties there. So he's tolerated and made one of the group sometimes.

(08-17-2015 08:07 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  I wouldn't call any of those true alphas. Maybe DiCaprio. They are "alphas" in our poisoned society. They can get with women due to their fame and money. But are any of them strong men who can truly go on their own, be happy and content with themselves, and gain respect of other men on their own merits alone?

I can say this much, as a man I never strive to be like any of these four men. I want to be successful, but I want to be able to stand on my own and my own principles and not repeat some anti-male propaganda to pay my bills.

It appears OP would require a definition of Alpha. I can imagine very few cases where I could out-game any of those guys.

I do understand each of these points, I just tend to use the heartiste definition which tends to be the most objective standard I can think of and can be used rather universally.

Owning the frame on the other hand...I can imagine many instances where I would own the frame with these guys. If we went pheasant hunting for instance, I have no doubt they'd look fools compared to my shotgun skills.

You'd be surprised.

I've had too many nights where we go out with my baller friends. They pick up bottle service, shots, and expensive appetizers. The girl is making EOIs all over the place, flirting up my baller buddy.

Then she goes home with the bartender at the end of the night, full of exquisite tuna tartare and Grey Goose.

Post: #27

Just a small contribution: back in college, three of my friends who were natural players all, coincidentally, participated in Track and Field. One was a sprinter, the other did pole vaulting.

I am going to guess that being physical, but not necessarily always competitive, is more likely to make someone an alpha(or higher betas, sigma, and deltas if you want to go by Vox Day's definitions ).

I was never much into competitive sports back in my youth, but if I could do it all over again I would participate in Track and Field, and/or powerlifting

Post: #28

(08-17-2015 08:04 AM)heavy Wrote:  I have no doubt some of the guys from this list were never into sports:
LeoLeonardo DiCaprio
Ben Affleck
Justin Bieber
George Clooney

Clooney was on his high school basketball team, which although the team had a horrible record, I think Clooney was the best player on the team. He also played baseball and tried out for the Reds, but wasn't offered a contract.

Post: #29

No. Case in point - take this guy:
1) escaped from 2 maximum security prisons in a row
2) marries 18 year old beauty queen
3) controls billions of dollars

Does El Chapo look like an athlete to you?


Just goes to show there are no "requirements" for anything, only dedication and hard work.

More so, you have to define "alpha" - as in alpha of a Vegas pool party where size & looks reign, or alpha of the Goldman Sachs corporate boardroom where wits & confidence reign or another realm. Inner game - the secret behind "alpha" - is not defined by sports, formal education or anything else - it's defined by principles, values and core confidence.

Post: #30

Interesting topic.

I played football (not hand-egg) all my life and I was good. I always played for my schools' football teams and I got invited to take part in the youth team of my city's football team competing on the first division of national professional football league. Though I could not make it to the professional level, I spent thousands of hours playing the sport.

I will not comment on the level of my alphaness but I believe playing competitive sports gave me these two important assets:

1) Learning a competitive skill takes a lot of time and practice. If I put in the time and effort on anything, I will improve.

2) As soon as I discovered Roosh's work, I started approaching girls. Of course there was some approach anxiety but that was nothing that I couldn't handle. I attribute this to having played competitive sports because it involves some level of courage and quick decision making.

Post: #31

(08-17-2015 09:30 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 08:50 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  At worst, there is weight training, which is technically a sport, but it still misses a sense of competition between yourself and someone else.

What, you think weightlifters, powerlifters and strongmen don't compete against other people?

Guess I should clarify. I meant weight training, and not weight lifting.

The former is usually for health and physique purposes only, which is what most people in the gym are used to.

I can't really comment on weight lifting because I am not a weight lifter.

Post: #32

(08-17-2015 09:50 AM)dreambig Wrote:  Great topic. This thread makes me want to get playing a sport regularly again.

One of my most cherished memories of school was playing football almost every day with mates. Sometimes twice a day. We were so fit back then. I consider myself lucky to have been a teenager before the smartphone era.

Question: Which competitive sport is the very best for developing masculine traits?

I don't think anything can beat rugby this side of the pond.

Post: #33

(08-17-2015 11:19 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 09:50 AM)dreambig Wrote:  Great topic. This thread makes me want to get playing a sport regularly again.

One of my most cherished memories of school was playing football almost every day with mates. Sometimes twice a day. We were so fit back then. I consider myself lucky to have been a teenager before the smartphone era.

Question: Which competitive sport is the very best for developing masculine traits?

I don't think anything can beat rugby this side of the pond.

Ye, rugby or boxing here for me. I'd err more towards boxing on the basis that there's less gay shit amongst boxers - all my rugby friends do a lot of gay chicken, as well as doing heinous (hilarious) stuff liking drinkin their own vomit out of pint glasses, pissing on each other, etc. But as far as male bonding with masculine guys go, rugby has a pretty awesome culture that I don't think any other sport here can match.

Post: #34

I almost always take new ladies I meet to a basketball court early on as a suggested play date. Even at my age if you show athletic inclination they mentally think "he can fuck".

I stopped playing football after 9th grade which in retrospect was a mistake. I was undersized where we were often going against kids who'd not only flunked a year but were as big as they were ever going to get. I was the starting QB and OLB too it's not like I sucked I was the quintessential good tackler. By my Sr. year my shoulders were much more broad, I was taller, faster, stronger, but I do regret not sticking with that. I just didn't hit as hard as some of those guys and didn't realize they were all manned up already.

On the flip side as a "little" PG who shot to 6'0" as a 10th grader I went straight to varsity that year. No press could stop me. I was ripped off in life as my HS added baseball (likely my best sport) and the 3-point line in 1988 the year after graduating.

What I'll say is this. When I was old enough to drive I went down and played in the inner city summer leagues. Playing with the inner city kids teaches you to stand up for yourself, and not take shit from anyone. In the Trump thread it's referenced Black People respect Alpha's and it's definitely true. I never had to get in any fights down there but when someone knocked me down hard and I jumped up in his face brushing it off as if to say "you didn't hurt me fucker" it was then I was learning important lessons. Namely stand up for yourself and most people will leave you alone. Now there were some big boys who could have likely kicked my ass but very few fights broke out, and soon I was accepted as one of the better players. In fact I remember our big ass center chewing my ass out once for passing too much. Take the damn shot!! He didn't want me passing off to the weak shooting brothas.

Now back to the point, girls just fell over themselves to be with you. Besides school itself I had certain advantages that put a lot of girls in close proximity as well (a sister haha) and it didn't matter if I had a girlfriend, or they knew it was just for that night, as soon as sis was asleep.... One of my best memories is just after graduating an incoming Sr. walking up to me at a party when nobody was around and saying "Will you just use me tonight? Take me somewhere and use me".

I had a really hot friend who decided one night to lose her virginity to me when we were alone and later I asked her why me, she'd had good looking boyfriends but held out. She said I don't know you just have a way of making a girl want to do it so badly...

I'm now finding similar success at an older age though I'm not in a position at this time to use that for the younger ladies like some are on here. My success has been with what I'd call hot women 3-5 years younger than me but washed up to most here. However I think something about a no-fat 44 year old who craves you is still pretty cool after being married for so long so I'm enjoying it. They sure as fuck see me as alpha and at the end of the day it works for me (plate-spinning older but attractive ladies).

Post: #35

(08-17-2015 08:46 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 08:04 AM)heavy Wrote:  I have no doubt some of the guys from this list were never into sports:
LeoLeonardo DiCaprio
Ben Affleck
Justin Bieber
George Clooney

Bieber is a total insecure nerd, reflected in his career damaging decisions to get silly tattoos and attempts to act like he's "hood." He's a total pouser.

I'd even go a step further and say his beta-ness is what's going to destroy his career. The kid had some talent, but he's so insecure that he decided to throw it all away in lame attempts to seek approval from dudes who are actually alphas.

He's the kid in high school who no one actually likes, but his parents have a big house with a pool and they let us throw parties there. So he's tolerated and made one of the group sometimes.

Yeah I remember when he walked out with Mayweather and Lil Wayne in the Canelo fight. The way he looked coming out was just weird and fake. Trying to be something that he's not. You can sense the insecurity from a mile away.

Post: #36

Sports definitely develop masculine traits but athletes are as likely to be white knights as they are alphas when it comes to women.

Post: #37

Great thread.

I agree with the op.

Reminds me of my last job. working with all females, the only guy in a bastion of estrogen.

We had our weekly meeting and I brought up that as long as we focus on teamwork then things would go easier, we could pick up each others slack if they got swamped, that type of thing.

They looked at me like I was nuts. They had never heard of the term or concept of teamwork before. Devolved into a side conversation if this new concept would work but it was decided that it would not as it was too far out there.

I couldnt believe it.

Post: #38

(08-17-2015 01:13 PM)crupiea Wrote:  Great thread.

I agree with the op.

Reminds me of my last job. working with all females, the only guy in a bastion of estrogen.

We had our weekly meeting and I brought up that as long as we focus on teamwork then things would go easier, we could pick up each others slack if they got swamped, that type of thing.

They looked at me like I was nuts. They had never heard of the term or concept of teamwork before. Devolved into a side conversation if this new concept would work but it was decided that it would not as it was too far out there.

I couldnt believe it.

That's weird. Girls seem to be just as much into team sports as guys in my experience.

Post: #39

Absolutely a male can be "alpha" having not played competitive sports. If that we're the sole determiner then there would be very few alphas outside the western world, when we know in fact there are probably more.

It also depends on your definition of "Alpha". People in the west, and many on the forum, tend to see being a "provider" as beta, when in other parts of the world, where there are still traditional gender roles and less welfare states, being a provider is as alpha as it gets.

Post: #40

(08-17-2015 08:56 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  It is only recently that societies have begun to deny that young boys need physical exertion and competition to develop into real men.

Notable examples are Athenians and Spartans, British Victorian games and JFK's thing last century. Every civilisation has their own version.

The school playing field that built an empire: Amazing photo of cricket being played at Eton in 1860s is one of the oldest pictures of the sport ever taken

Quote:Arthur Wellesley, the Duke of Wellington, was a British leader who is said to have traversed the playing fields at Eton College when he was a student in the 1780s.

The Duke attended Eton, which was founded in the 15th Century by King Henry VI, before he joined the army in 1787 and later helped defeat Napoleon at the Battle of Waterloo in June 1815.

According to history, he touched the ground at Eton and claimed: 'There grows the stuff that won Waterloo.'

He was later misquoted repeatedly as having said: 'It is here that the battle of Waterloo was won.'

His statements were construed by historians as references to the 'manly character induced by games and sport' among the English youth.

Quote:In the 19th century, character building through sports was said to be vital in morally equipping young men to achieve greatness later in life.

Many held the view that 'manly characteristics' were developed by gaming and sports, and that those who flourished on the field would go on to carve successful careers as soldiers or engineers.

(08-17-2015 01:21 PM)RickyGP Wrote:  That's weird. Girls seem to be just as much into team sports as guys in my experience.

That’s more an American thing, in many other cultures women don’t give a fuck about sports. As a British guy living in the US, I find American women’s interest in sports masculine and a massive turn off.

2 weeks ago I had a conversation about sports and academia with a Taiwanese-American friend originally from Texas. He believed his parents were raising him to be a pussy. They didn’t want him to play any sports and expected him to learn to play musical instruments. He rebelled and moved out as soon as he could. He believes that a lot of Chinese-American boys in the southern California San Gabriel Valley “bubble” (a heavily Chinese area) are also raised to be pussies and he’s got a lot of hate for the parents.

Thankfully all of my nephews back in UK do some type of martial arts and/or sports.

What’s the opinion on competitive rowing here? That seems like a really tough sport...

(08-17-2015 01:30 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Absolutely a male can be "alpha" having not played competitive sports. If that we're the sole determiner then there would be very few alphas outside the western world, when we know in fact there are probably more.

It also depends on your definition of "Alpha". People in the west, and many on the forum, tend to see being a "provider" as beta, when in other parts of the world, where there are still traditional gender roles and less welfare states, being a provider is as alpha as it gets.

There’s plenty of fearless guys in places like Afghanistan who would cut your balls off if you looked at them the wrong way, who have probably never played sports or even been to school.

Post: #41

Good thread. So far I haven't seen any mention of endurance and racing sports, like cross country, track, cycling, or swimming.

These sports often test your mettle and toughness when you are striving to reach your fullest potential in these endurance sports. Way before you win one of those races, you're putting hundreds or thousands of hours in increasing your conditioning and endurance, perfecting your form, and hitting those intervals as hard as you can.

When you're training in these sports, you're pushing yourself to the limit for a set, heart pounding, pouring sweat, and feeling the lactate burn in your muscles. When you finish a set, you find yourself gasping for air, wanting to go home, and quit. Then you dig into the energy reserves that you never thought you had, take a deep breath, and hit another interval even harder than the last one. Then repeat. And repeat again.

This applies to all endurance sports of any type, run, swim, and bike. After each workout, you make those small gains over time and you learn what your body can handle. You learn to enjoy the pain until you approach your breaking point.

I would think that helps you become stronger mentally. I don't know if that makes someone alpha, but I am sure it helps build character through some doses of suffering.

Post: #42

Sports itself does not make you competitive. Testosterone makes you competitive, and inclined to play sports. Take a kid with poor developmental hormones and a weak frame to show for it, and he will not turn into a competitive beast. Rather he will consistently suck at the game, occupy a low status within the team, and want nothing to do with it all. Such a nerd is not meant for it and would be better off channeling whatever talents he does have into, I dunno, shit like spelling bees or something.

Post: #43

(08-17-2015 01:53 PM)civpro Wrote:  Sports itself does not make you competitive. Testosterone makes you competitive, and inclined to play sports. Take a kid with poor developmental hormones and a weak frame to show for it, and he will not turn into a competitive beast. Rather he will consistently suck at the game, occupy a low status within the team, and want nothing to do with it all. Such a nerd is not meant for it and would be better off channeling whatever talents he does have into, I dunno, shit like spelling bees or something.

That's like saying a shy kid with no game will never have sex and will always remain a virgin because his introverted personality determines his fate.

In regards to the topic at hand, plenty of men have enhanced their hormonal profile with some work... Nutrition and lifestyle related changes. I am one of them.

Post: #44

(08-17-2015 01:53 PM)civpro Wrote:  Sports itself does not make you competitive. Testosterone makes you competitive, and inclined to play sports. Take a kid with poor developmental hormones and a weak frame to show for it, and he will not turn into a competitive beast. Rather he will consistently suck at the game, occupy a low status within the team, and want nothing to do with it all. Such a nerd is not meant for it and would be better off channeling whatever talents he does have into, I dunno, shit like spelling bees or something.

This describes me as a kid in some ways. I ended up getting into music/electric guitar. However, I do believe things could have been different if I had been taught some proper weight training as a youngster. I was always tall/skinny/awkward.

Post: #45

(08-17-2015 02:01 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 01:53 PM)civpro Wrote:  Sports itself does not make you competitive. Testosterone makes you competitive, and inclined to play sports. Take a kid with poor developmental hormones and a weak frame to show for it, and he will not turn into a competitive beast. Rather he will consistently suck at the game, occupy a low status within the team, and want nothing to do with it all. Such a nerd is not meant for it and would be better off channeling whatever talents he does have into, I dunno, shit like spelling bees or something.

That's like saying a shy kid with no game will never have sex and will always remain a virgin because his introverted personality determines his fate.

In regards to the topic at hand, plenty of men have enhanced their hormonal profile with some work... Nutrition and lifestyle related changes. I am one of them.

You seemed to have missed the part where I said weak frame, not weak drive, and that's something you can never change. Your analogy does not fit. To make it right, replace 'shy kid' with 'ugly kid'.

Post: #46

Growing up, wearing your hockey team jacket to school gave you notoriety, especially if you played in the highest level. My time spent in hockey acted as a counter-balance to the indoctrination I was being fed at school. At home, I also had a very red-pill father, traditional household, etc., but being in hockey provided an additional masculine atmosphere and teaching. Think about being a nine year old and getting screamed at by adults (coaches) that are not related to you. That was the way they taught us, and it hardened us. Those who couldn't take it got weeded out quickly. I imagine that it was similar to the experiences of an American kid that grew up playing football.

Post: #47

I've known some guys that have never played any sport, let alone competitively, that have gone off into the woods alone for a week, with a rifle and few supplies. Just because you didn't play little league in the suburbs doesn't mean there are no other options to become a man, develop masculinity, and learn what it takes to struggle and pull through.

I moved to Bangkok alone at 19, looked up a hotel to stay at on the plane in my Lonely Planet guide, lived in an area where a white person is rare sight, made my way through determination and guts. I had very little interest in sports, I'm more the explorer type. Is the high school basketball player really more alpha? I'd say it's a different flavor of alpha. The alpha-through-sports is a very narrow view of masculinity.

Post: #48

I think there are many different ways to be 'Alpha'. Sports is one way. Travelling solo another. Masculine hobbies another +1.

Best to take up many different things, that will only benefit you.

Post: #49

Possible, but not especially common.

Most masculine men have masculine hobbies - sports, guns, gambling, boxing/MMA, hunting/fishing, lifting. You should try to have at least one.

Post: #50

It helps a lot.

Doing some martial arts or boxing will help feel more confident, women will feel it and they will like it.

Doing any team sport will help, a lot of women want to be part of a group, so being close to a Football/Hockey/Soccer player will help them in raising their social status (or at least that's the way they see it).