Post: #1

Given the choice, would you rather be born as:


1. A 9-10 middle class white western girl, with some average or slightly above average family connections and average intelligence. You would have word by the balls by the time you would be 18 or less. Being flown around the world, spending time on yachts, being the center of the universe and the prize at any party. Being asked out by high SMV men in Hong Kong, etc. Basically the world is your oyster and you could be extracting resources until you hit the wall and beyond until your 40s. You would also enjoy more privileges that come from both being a woman in society and from the legal standpoint. You could get away with a lot of things because pussy pass.
Everything in your life would just fall from the sky. If you played the cards well, you could secure a high status male in your late 20s or even later.
If you screwed something up, you would have a handful of people willing to bail you out and whole crowds of thirsty males willing to help you.

Also, you would only have to not eat any shit, don't eat too much and do some light cardio from time to time to be able to have a body that is considered VERY attractive. And if you did some squats for few months, you would have a horde of thirsty males going after you and you could step up the power you hold by a whole another notch.

You would also have a choice to either be more ambitious and career-oriented or more hedonistic and family-oriented. Regardless of which option you would choose, you would have the whole (western) world cheering for you (especially for the ambitious option).


2. A better than average looking, introverted lower middle class white male, with below average family connections but above average intelligence. Your family would lack the capital and connections to kickstart your 20s. You'd be nobody at 18 and well into your 20s. You'd have to work hard for EVERYTHING. You'd have to build everything from scratch - your social skills, soft skills, technical skills. You'd go through a lot of humiliation and rejection before you could even start to prove yourself to the world in your early 20s. While your good looks and height (and knowing how to dress) would certainly help you, you would still be a "no one" compared to your female counterpart. While you would be having a handful of people following your instagram account, your female counterpart would have tens of thousands people following and receiving job offers and treats daily. Your life would be that of struggle and self improvement before you could reach financial success in your 30s (hopefully, because it wouldn't be guaranteed - whereas being an attractive female guarantees you can extract a lot of resources). You would be the oppressed one from the legal standpoint. There would be no pussy pass. If you screwed up, there would be NO people showing you any forgiveness or sympathy (at least not even 5% the sympathy that your female counterpart would receive). There would be no bail-out.

Also, you would be required to hit the gym hard every single week, be very conscious about what you eat and deny yourself to be able to have a body that is considered attractive. And even if you attained an athletic shape, the attractiveness of your body wouldn't even hold as much 'power' as that of a lazy 7 female in a very average shape.

You would get no choice in whether to be more ambitious and career-oriented or more hedonistic and family-oriented (or you wouldn't be able to just drop everything and indulge in some artistic pursuits, like your female counterpart could). If you chose anything other than A) A hard-working life of a typical 9-5er B) A hard-working life of an entrepreneur, you would be perceived by society as a loser.




Which one would you rather be born as? Is being born an attractive and female one of the best things that can happen to someone? Or is the big party of a life that they enjoy grossly overhyped? Maybe it's not that great to have all those things fall from sky for you? Maybe being enabled to become a self-made man is actually the best thing?

Just some thoughts I had after scrolling through Tinder in HK, where a usual attractive (western) female does a stint and at 20 years of age enjoys a lifestyle that would take at least 10 years of hard work for any male that isn't born into privilege.

Post: #2

So 9 or 10 or a shlub? Tough choice.

Post: #3

If you've read what I wrote, an intelligent and above-average looking white male is pretty far from a schlub.

Post: #4

its a nice thought experiment, but it's a bit off in my humble opinion. I think you tried to sell it as an average dude with plenty of opportunity and solid physical traits, but that's not the case with a real "average dude." Your character certainly won't have to work as hard as you'd expect - he'd just have to put himself out there. He certainly has much more to work with than many of us who made lemonade on this forum.

Post: #5

This is just common knowledge from the forum re-written into one of those gay 'would you rather' things.





You absoloutely nailed it when you said 'Maybe being enabled to become a self-made man is actually the best thing?'

Post: #6

Might as well have asked the "deaf or blind" question.

No a choice anyone will have to worry about facing.

Post: #7

Thinking of making a switch?

Post: #8

The average looking guy is far from good looking. I'd even say just the better than average looking dude still isn't that well off.

And according to reddit, nearly every "average" person has far above average intelligence.

Post: #9

(08-08-2015 02:14 AM)cascadecombo Wrote:  And according to reddit, nearly every "average" person has far above average intelligence.

This. I think probably 70-80% of the population would say that they are above average intelligence, whilst the other 20-30% are so dumb they actually admit it.

It's mainly self-delusion. They think that even though they are in the lowest classes for maths, science, etc.., they are above average intelligence because 'school isn't a measure of intelligence'. School is a mixture of that and hard work (mainly hard work), but intelligent people see that they are going to have to work hard.

They also might say that they are 'funny' or 'outgoing', as if that makes them above average intelligence.

Coming from someone who was in the top 10 or 20 students out of a school year of 300, if you're intelligent, you will be at the top. Once you're past 11/12, there's only so far you can go being stupid.

In answer to the original question, I would rather be the man.

Post: #10

Good thread. Like to think I would say the man but at the last minute I might sack it in and take the easy option.

Post: #11

If a woman is living in the Anglosphere, she doesn't even need to be a 9-10 to have such power - she just needs to be in her 20s, thin and not physically disfigured.

Post: #12

Why would anyone willingly choose to be female? Bleeding for a few days each month, for 40+ years, shitting out kids, and being emotional (read: bat shit crazy).

Post: #13

Truth, knowledge, strength, honor...four things infinitely more important than easy sex, and four things which men are infinitely better equipped to achieve. Being a man is harder, just like being an adult is harder than being a child, but in both cases there should be no question as to which is the greater calling.

Post: #14

Being born as a regular man is better than being born as a 10 woman any day.

- I choose emotional stability
- not bleeding once a month
- not having varying levels of anxiety most of the time
- maturity, acquiring experience with age (and seeing my value go up as well)
- be able to walk around alone most of the time without fearing for my safety
- Sports, most women and most sports just do not mix
- Have more control over my destiny and my potential

Some food for thought.

Post: #15

(08-08-2015 10:47 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  Being born as a regular man is better than being born as a 10 woman any day.

- I choose emotional stability
- not bleeding once a month
- not having varying levels of anxiety most of the time
- maturity, acquiring experience with age (and seeing my value go up as well)
- be able to walk around alone most of the time without fearing for my safety
- Sports, most women and most sports just do not mix
- Have more control over my destiny and my potential

Some food for thought.

I agree with your sentiment here, but you're obviously biased from the outset since you're a man. You've constructed a list of values that are inherently masculine, and thus appeal to men. A woman doesn't have a use for most of these things and hence they have no appeal to her. A solid 9 would have her own reasons why she prefers being a beautiful woman rather than a man, most of which center around being freed from all responsibility and effort. For example, if a beautiful woman wants something, she can find a man to buy it for her. If she wants to go somewhere, she can find a man to take her. If she is feeling vulnerable, she can find a man to leech emotional security/attention from. She would view having to actually procure these things for herself through her own efforts as a drastic step down in quality of life. She doesn't understand concepts like pride of accomplishment or being self-reliant, because these are inherently masculine and thus alien to her.

Post: #16

Right, good point.

Post: #17

(08-08-2015 10:47 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  Being born as a regular man is better than being born as a 10 woman any day.

- I choose emotional stability
- not bleeding once a month
- not having varying levels of anxiety most of the time
- maturity, acquiring experience with age (and seeing my value go up as well)
- be able to walk around alone most of the time without fearing for my safety
- Sports, most women and most sports just do not mix
- Have more control over my destiny and my potential
- Not having to suck dick

Some food for thought.

Post: #18

We all tend to gravitate and discuss women who are 8s, 9s, and 10s.

However we tend to forget that there's a massive amount of 4s-6s who mean well and are high quality in ways beyond looks. They are just as invisible as the man in the post above.

There was a terrible image that Eliot Rodger posted about sexual market variance that highlighted this.

Post: #19

(08-08-2015 02:40 PM)wi30 Wrote:  

(08-08-2015 10:47 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  ...
- Not having to suck dick

Some food for thought.

If you were born a woman, that probably wouldn't be an issue.

Post: #20

(08-08-2015 03:59 PM)Marmite Wrote:  

(08-08-2015 02:40 PM)wi30 Wrote:  

(08-08-2015 10:47 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  ...
- Not having to suck dick

Some food for thought.

If you were born a woman, that probably wouldn't be an issue.

Understandable. You'd be born liking it more that Perez Hilton.

Overcoming the struggle of being a man is probably the greatest achievement a man can make. After listening to the stupid shit my girlfriend says, I wouldn't wish that thought process on my worst enemy.

Post: #21

Would you rather have:

• responsibility
• reality from the get-go
• 50 years to make something of yourself
• a society that gives zero fucks about you and your well being
  

or

• 15 years of fame when you're too young to capitalize on it
• 50 years of grinding mediocrity with the best of your life long behind you
• dealing with kids if you had any, or cats if you didn't
• generally being too dumb to fix your own problems
• 
  

Post: #22

Most women that I know seem annoyed by the adulation they receive from hordes of thirsty betas.

Post: #23

Unequivocally, would choose being a man. The reason is quite simple actually but will take some words to unpack.

A childhood friend was in town last night and she was visiting some friends of friends. Somehow I ended up on a roofdeck of 24 story apartment building with 8 or so chicks in their later 20's and nothing special in terms of looks. These chicks seemed grounded and had a decent grasp on reality. Nonetheless, their conversations were boring, mundane, and personalities blaise. I ended up being part of a conversation with two where one of the chicks was mentioning how she is joining a new job at a "start up". She could tell us the name, what she'd be doing, where she'd be travelling to, the perks of the job, etc, but for the life of her; she couldnt describe the business model. That's when it hit me, women live in a different universe and don't get the big picture at all. I was astonished that she got the job but couldn't succinctly describe the organization. Well, women just aren't expected to be accountable. By all outward appearances, these chicks are successful; nice places, good jobs, probably make more than me, decent midwest social network, blah blah, but it doesnt matter as their potential is about maxed out and they self hinder by being risk adverse, perception conscience, influenced by society, entitled, and shirking real challenges.

Long winded to sum up a simple point but society has never moved on the backs of women and never will. The first 25-30 years of their lives are consequence free because of the currency they are allowed to trade on and the notion society has collectively bought into that women are the more important sex.

Men on the other hand; figure it the fuck out. Embrace the suck. Everything must be earned. We have the capacity for improvement everywhere and a self awareness to act on it. Men get the big picture and act accordingly. Your logic is a god given gift so do not disparage it.

Simply put, women can only receive their positions in life where men can create anything and that is true power.


OP; your tone makes me think your still wrestling with the unfairness of women's preferential treatment. It isn't women you should be mad at, it is society that told you a lie. We expected that if we lived up to our side of the bargain, they (women & society) would return in kind for our quiet, enduring, confirming efforts. We were duped but we can take corrective action and retake our lives. I'd much prefer my mind, overcoming challenges, and the battle scars to prove my worth. There are 3.5 Billion uteruses on this earth. There is a small community of men that make the fucker go round and once I got over the bitterness of the RP, I'd always choose to have a shot at spinning the globe.

Post: #24

Those are all very good points. I've taken a subjective approach (skewed in favor of the idea that women have it overall better in life) on purpose. It's not because I believe it, it's because I knew that some of those disparities could be debunked.

@greekgod is right. I'm still wrestling with the idea, although less and less. About exactly 1 year ago I swallowed the Red Pill and that was a catalyst for lots of changes in my thinking. I'm in early 20s and gradually awakening to my masculinity, and what it means to build one's self as a man. I'm bewildered how huge of a percentage of men these days are out of touch of their masculinity. There is usually little space for self improvement and life revolves around superficial looks of success, self indulgence, following the path of least-resistance, being a 'nice guy', trying hard not to offend anyone, pandering to women etc.

This forum and community is a godsend. Filled with people who are living examples that you can play the system and create your own path. That you can stop others from exploiting you. That you can really thrive in this world despite being out of the mainstream thought patterns.

I've been very into self improvement since 4 years now so I guess I already have some solid grounding here.

I was just listening to Jim Rohn on my earbuds:

"Don't wish that things were more easy. Wish you were better."


A video I've accidentally found yesterday, relevant:





I don't follow MGTOW because I'm not the audience, and while I don't agree with everything they say, they have some good darn points.

Post: #25

MGTOW'ers are gay.



Being a man, we have more freedom. Yea, most guys lives suck, but being red pill, in my mind anyway, is about avoiding the traps and doing the things that benefit you.

So, to answer your question, in the generic would you rather post I'd rather be the hot chick. But that's just because I wouldn't be me. I'd be some guy with no creativity who lets life use him instead of him using the world for himself and eventually his kids (and woman for as long as she loves him).

But, if it was would I rather be me born into that circumstance or a hot chick, I'd take me everytime. I love being me. I'm pretty darn good at making money, at a job or otherwise, I have good game, I enjoy attractive women's company and I can tell they enjoy mine, (not all, but the ones that don't, who cares) I'm good looking, and I'm starting to embrace everything in life, including the hardships.

Instead of complaining in my head I think about how so many others opportunity at life was cut short and that the thing in my day that isn't really a big deal and to just take it head on.

So many peoples lives have been ruined by war, disease, communism, etc..I chose to love life and so should you.

I wouldn't waste your time wishing you were some hot girl, not all hot girls lives are that great anyway. A lot of them end up at a shit hole bar for serving drinks for the last 40 years of their life. As a guy the last forty years of your life could be fucking fantastic.



These kinds of posts are fine, your're just doing a thought experiment, but if your obsessing over this its time to move on.