Post: #1

Sometimes, I think we rail on cops too much. I think the majority of cops are good people trying their best. Oftentimes, it seems they are giving less and less latitude while criminals seem to get more and more rights. Yes, there are bad cops, I get it. But they are not all bad. Would just be mathematically impossible.

Anyway, maybe there are better clips out there. But this guy was drunk and stuck on the tracks.

Post: #2

Our society is definitely far from perfect, but from the perspective of public safety and law and order, it is far better than 9th century Europe or 21st century Somalia. At the end of the day, the reason we usually leave our houses alone and unarmed instead of in war parties armed with assault rifles and home-made flame throwers is Police keeping shit in check. The individual quality of police officers is normally distributed just like with every other group of people, but no one can possibly think we'd be better off without law enforcement in general.

...well, ok, now that I think about it, I'm not so sure. If you remove the forces of law and order and let anarchy reign, it may well turn into a situation where shit gets a lot worse before it gets a lot better. The usual suspects may at first take the opportunity to wreak havoc unchecked, only to realize that the "silent majority," if pushed too hard too fast, ends up crushing them like a worm with extreme prejudice.

Post: #3

I don't think that the cop did anything too special here, his job is to serve and protect the public which is what he did, so good on him for that. Here's a video that made me think "damn, I can't beleive that cop didn't shoot him"

Post: #4

(08-04-2015 04:30 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  Our society is definitely far from perfect, but from the perspective of public safety and law and order, it is far better than 9th century Europe or 21st century Somalia. At the end of the day, the reason we usually leave our houses alone and unarmed instead of in war parties armed with assault rifles and home-made flame throwers is Police keeping shit in check. The individual quality of police officers is normally distributed just like with every other group of people, but no one can possibly think we'd be better off without law enforcement in general.

...well, ok, now that I think about it, I'm not so sure. If you remove the forces of law and order and let anarchy reign, it may well turn into a situation where shit gets a lot worse before it gets a lot better. The usual suspects may at first take the opportunity to wreak havoc unchecked, only to realize that the "silent majority," if pushed too hard too fast, ends up crushing them like a worm with extreme prejudice.

Agreed. I think one of the problems of our society is the group think and sheep mentality of people, and how that thinking slowly affects how they view the world outside of themselves: not as isolated incidents or individuals, but as a group and whole. Whenever someone does something bad, instead of saying "hey, this is a bad guy," people say "hey, this bad guy is this race/religion/group, so that means that race/religion/group must be all bad." Of course I'm using generalized terms, but you get the idea. Point is, there are good and bad people in every race, religion, group, country, etc, etc. Our inability to separate the individual from the group is the problem.

As far as anarchy goes, most situations are as you described: it gets worse before it gets better. But the police is not only necessary, but also a result (imo) of anarchy. Sure you can get rid of the police and everything falls apart. But in this hypothetical dystopian society, eventually things will get bad enough that someone will step up and start implementing some form of order, order that will be enforced by some form of police, whether it be volunteered or privatized or what not. They might not be called the police, but they essentially fill the same role as peace keepers and enforcing of whatever new laws that are formed to maintain order.

Post: #5

Here's another one....but back in 92'

Always cracks me up - sure as shit wouldn't happen now.

Post: #6

(08-04-2015 04:30 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  Our society is definitely far from perfect, but from the perspective of public safety and law and order, it is far better than 9th century Europe or 21st century Somalia. At the end of the day, the reason we usually leave our houses alone and unarmed instead of in war parties armed with assault rifles and home-made flame throwers is Police keeping shit in check. The individual quality of police officers is normally distributed just like with every other group of people, but no one can possibly think we'd be better off without law enforcement in general.

...well, ok, now that I think about it, I'm not so sure. If you remove the forces of law and order and let anarchy reign, it may well turn into a situation where shit gets a lot worse before it gets a lot better. The usual suspects may at first take the opportunity to wreak havoc unchecked, only to realize that the "silent majority," if pushed too hard too fast, ends up crushing them like a worm with extreme prejudice.

9th century Europe/21st century Somalia are not the relevant alternatives to the current US law enforcement environment. It wasn't so long ago Somalia had a government and it was worse off then than now. That's just the limitations of their social/political/economic environment. The relevant comparison is a US where LEOs aren't encouraged to escalate every situation they encounter knowing DAs will cover for them no matter what. If you're right that current LE practice is the only thing between us and total chaos it might be better to burn it all down and start over.

Post: #7

(08-04-2015 05:27 PM)Grange Wrote:  

(08-04-2015 04:30 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  Our society is definitely far from perfect, but from the perspective of public safety and law and order, it is far better than 9th century Europe or 21st century Somalia. At the end of the day, the reason we usually leave our houses alone and unarmed instead of in war parties armed with assault rifles and home-made flame throwers is Police keeping shit in check. The individual quality of police officers is normally distributed just like with every other group of people, but no one can possibly think we'd be better off without law enforcement in general.

...well, ok, now that I think about it, I'm not so sure. If you remove the forces of law and order and let anarchy reign, it may well turn into a situation where shit gets a lot worse before it gets a lot better. The usual suspects may at first take the opportunity to wreak havoc unchecked, only to realize that the "silent majority," if pushed too hard too fast, ends up crushing them like a worm with extreme prejudice.

9th century Europe/21st century Somalia are not the relevant alternatives to the current US law enforcement environment. It wasn't so long ago Somalia had a government and it was worse off then than now. That's just the limitations of their social/political/economic environment. The relevant comparison is a US where LEOs aren't encouraged to escalate every situation they encounter knowing DAs will cover for them no matter what. If you're right that current LE practice is the only thing between us and total chaos it might be better to burn it all down and start over.

Post: #8

"burn it all down and start over"

Sounds like a well-thought out, constructive solution to the minority of of overaggressive cops.

Look how well the Bolshevik Revolution and Mao's Great Leap Forward worked.

Post: #9

"If you're right that current LE practice is the only thing between us and total chaos it might be better to burn it all down and start over."

It wasn't clear I think he's on the wrong side of that if, apparently.

Post: #10

OP you got gamed and you might even have Stockholm syndrome without even knowing it. Because this is how women who have this syndrome excuse the bahavior of their abusers too.

This is how those in power kep those in yoke subservant - they do one good deed to you and then 3 bad deeds. Then they do one good deed to you again to make you come up with rationalization why you love them so much. And then they do another 3 abusive deeds to you.

The policeman did a good job saving someones life but does that changes the fact that he has to fill his quota of domestic violance arrests?

Pehaps most individuals in police have noble intentions on why they serve but as a group they are tools for an ever more draconian system.

Post: #11

Lol, I got gamed? All I was doing was saying, all I ever see is cops are bad. Here is a cop doing something good.

I don't think cops have a quota on DV (but someone correct me if I am wrong), I do think they have to honor accusations to at least investigate them. Sadly, even if it is BS. They are there to try and uphold the law, how do they know if the law has broken if they do not investigate.

Mage, joking here a bit, but odds are you and other guys have done more damage than a cop trying to do his job. Every time you were nice to a fat chick, or told an ugly girl she was pretty, that is the cause of this nonsense. Those chicks then run around thinking they are special. They then think they can say whatever the fuck they want and get away with it.

But thanks for stirring the pot, I guess you needed a little drama today.

Post: #12

(08-05-2015 12:12 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  Lol, I got gamed? All I was doing was saying, all I ever see is cops are bad. Here is a cop doing something good.

I don't think cops have a quota on DV (but someone correct me if I am wrong), I do think they have to honor accusations to at least investigate them. Sadly, even if it is BS. They are there to try and uphold the law, how do they know if the law has broken if they do not investigate.

Mage, joking here a bit, but odds are you and other guys have done more damage than a cop trying to do his job. Every time you were nice to a fat chick, or told an ugly girl she was pretty, that is the cause of this nonsense. Those chicks then run around thinking they are special. They then t

Also -hink they can say whatever the fuck they want and get away with it.

But thanks for stirring the pot, I guess you needed a little drama today.

Not creating any drama here, just pointing out what I have seen among people from old Soviet Union. People tend to love and excuse their oppressors, trying hard to find one good thing they do that excuses their overall abusiveness. I believe this is an asexual form of Stockholm syndrome and everyone myself included can fall for that from time to time. It's just so tempting to believe that those in power have the best intentions for us and that they care.

My point is it doesn't matter if cops as individuals are good or bad - they all have to answer to their superiors who use them for enforcing laws, sometimes where it is right but often where it is excessive and oppressive. That same cop who saved a life here can wear antiroit gear against legitimate protesters, plant drugs to frame a political opposition or arrest someone for a twitter line that offended a feminist.

Also I don't get it why you start accusing me and other guys, apparently anyone but yourself on saying compliments to ugly girls. This is totally ungrounded.

Post: #13

(08-05-2015 12:06 AM)Mage Wrote:  OP you got gamed and you might even have Stockholm syndrome without even knowing it. Because this is how women who have this syndrome excuse the bahavior of their abusers too.

This is how those in power kep those in yoke subservant - they do one good deed to you and then 3 bad deeds. Then they do one good deed to you again to make you come up with rationalization why you love them so much. And then they do another 3 abusive deeds to you.

The policeman did a good job saving someones life but does that changes the fact that he has to fill his quota of domestic violance arrests?

Pehaps most individuals in police have noble intentions on why they serve but as a group they are tools for an ever more draconian system.

What?

/chortle ^ Nutjob

Post: #14

(08-05-2015 01:38 AM)Mage Wrote:  That same cop who saved a life here can wear antiroit gear against legitimate protesters, plant drugs to frame a political opposition or arrest someone for a twitter line that offended a feminist.

I wouldn't ascribe the general nature of the police to an individual policeman who'd proved otherwise. This is like saying a Japanese guy with an 8" dick actually has a 3" dick because he's Japanese.

The police in general are bad guys, because they are ultimately just the enforcement arm of the state (which has evil laws), but this one is probably not. He'd probably 'accidentally' lose the drugs he was told to plant, leave his capsicum spray in it's holster, and tip off the arrestee.

Post: #15

Strawman.

The issue isn't "all police are bad", but that cops both.

A: generally comply with enforcing unethical laws.

B: Are rarely held accountable for those events where they do mistreat a citizen.

Post: #16

I usually stay out of these police discussions here but people here act like every police officer has done them wrong.

How many people here have a police officer where he actually mistreated you?

How many times have you flew by a cop at 10-15 mph but didn't even budge because they saw you weren't a danger?

I've had a lot of contact with police officers.

I've had it where the pulled guns on me while walking up to the car.

I've had them let me go when they could have arrested me for arguing with a female in an apartment building.

I've had plenty of good contact and conversations with police officers too.

As long as I was respectful, didn't break the law and explained myself I never had an issue. I've only had a police officer be a dick to me once but never an arrest for nothing or fine just as long as you stay respectful.

We don't need to commend them for everything they do as heroes only when it's exceptional just as we should not condemn them for any small mistake they make only when it's harmful.

Post: #17

(08-05-2015 08:49 AM)realologist Wrote:  How many people here have a police officer where he actually mistreated you?

Many times. In Australia the police are brainless bandits, who's purpose is to extract loot for various excessively fined bullshit offenses. You can get mugged by them for things as trivial as not wearing a bicycle helmet on a sidewalk, or going 1km over the limit on a road with no speed-limit sign, or drinking an alcoholic drink outdoors. And these aren't small fines either.

Then there is the 'pending mistreatment', whereby you know that if you don't 100% comply with their oppressive bullshit, then they'll get you.

Japan isn't bad. Most of the time you see a policeman accosting a citizen, it's basically a long discussion, and they normally try to broker a peace between two citizens in conflict, without resorting to fines and punishment. That said, you have to be careful not to consent to custody (keep your feet planted unless they say they're arresting you), as they can lock you up for 20 days without trial at their discretion (yeah, they don't have much respect for their constitution either). Probably the opposite of the US-style frantic screaming and threatening death by firearm.