Post: #301

Remember this?

(07-23-2015 08:49 AM)jayesco Wrote:  I remember telling my girl that Drake just has the flow/voice where he can take anything and make it sound good. A few years ago at the VH1 hip hop awards, Drake and Bun B performed Get Throwed. Drake covered Pimp C's verse, and I remember thinking to myself he made that song sound a 100x better.

Today's rap in a nutshell. People would rather hear a Jewish Canadian child actor recite words written by a Texas gangster.

Post: #302

I gotta disagree with you a little bit Jariel on how this affects Drake. It really doesn't.

Jay Z is the biggest rhyme biter in hiphop/rap history. Did it affect his career? Nope. None at all. Hell Nas dropping Ether on his ass did not end him either. Stage presence, delivery, flow, etc. are just too hard to beat. Most dudes and bitches just wanna hear that voice and flow. They wanna ride the cool beats, they don't care much for lyrics. Pac wasn't a real gangster. Hell those chubby fuckers that sing Narco Corrido musica on behalf of real narcos in Mexico, are not anywhere nearly as hard as their lyrics suggest either. Old people dance to that disgusting music and ignore the lyrics too at BBQs or whatever.

Drake's problems are social ones. Not musical.

Post: #303

I don't recall saying this is the end of Drake.

I only said that maybe this would affect his credibility with purists.

People who are Drake fans by and large aren't hardcore hip-hop heads, so if they liked Drake before, they'll still like Drake now.

The ghostwriter has come out and made a statement, but what else was he going to say?

http://www.mtv.com/news/2223311/quentin-...stwriting/

Also, if it came out that other people were coming up with bars for Jay-Z and Pac, people would care because those guys are considered legends, really bad examples to use
in comparison to this situation, where it's obvious Drake employs other people to help him write his songs, whereas, with other guys, if you have writing credits on the track, it's because you actually spit a verse.

Post: #304

(07-24-2015 09:14 AM)Enigma Wrote:  Remember this?

Post: #305

(07-24-2015 05:27 PM)jariel Wrote:  I don't recall saying this is the end of Drake.

I only said that maybe this would affect his credibility with purists.

People who are Drake fans by and large aren't hardcore hip-hop heads, so if they liked Drake before, they'll still like Drake now.

The ghostwriter has come out and made a statement, but what else was he going to say?

http://www.mtv.com/news/2223311/quentin-...stwriting/

Also, if it came out that other people were coming up with bars for Jay-Z and Pac, people would care because those guys are considered legends, really bad examples to use
in comparison to this situation, where it's obvious Drake employs other people to help him write his songs, whereas, with other guys, if you have writing credits on the track, it's because you actually spit a verse.

I seriously doubt it. The biting was a big deal especially when you had people like DMX at his peak talking shit about Jay Z calling him a faggot ass biter in public back then. Yet look around almost 10 years later, and still no one fucking remembers that. DMX is considered a cracked out crazy old uncle as a rapper. Jay Z is royalty now. I remember back in 97 or 98 I used to have a 7 page printout that had every line Jigga bit off other rappers. I used to show that to shit to dudes, and they would find excuses. Everyone rode Jigga's dick back then and they still do. All the hip hop forums back then with all the hardcore backpackers knew what was really good back then on Jigga man, but that is a very very far cry from your average fan from the street. Most grumbled about it in private, like Busta Rhymes, Snoop, etc. because no one wanted to get black balled in the industry for attacking Jigga. Only Nas and few other lesser famous rappers came out at him over it. Jigga just kept being himself and magically everyone fucking forgot about it something that should have been a huge stain on his rap career and prestige for the reasons I mentioned in the previous post.

It is fair to compare Jigga to Drake because they are extremely parallel for their times and in many ways very similar in appeal, popularity, and style. They both are controversial about their rhyming ability. They both are more of a great entertainer than a raw spitter on the mic. You and Enigma's vid posts prove that. Jigga in his early days was considered something of a lightweight lyrically, but he had a lot of hustle in the way he carried himself. Drake is the same way. Ever heard the 7 Min Freestyle Jay did with Big L? Jay was completely blown out by L. That would be like Drake doing a 7 min freestyle with Cassidy or JR Writer! He would not come close to spitting the best bars in the same song. At the end of the day, one guys is cashing huge checks because of his broader appeal, especially with the ladies.

Drake is a rapper of his time anyway. When you got J Cole as Nas 2.0 with less bite and grit, K Lamar, Future, ASAP Rocky, Schoolboy Q, there is not anything to really be worried about. If those are your hardest hitters there is not much to be worried about, lyrics wise. Enigma nailed it earlier. The fans have set the bar soo soo low. There honestly would not have been any room for Drake in the 90s to fit in. Maybe even the early 2000s. Too many rappers with cut throat lyricism and style to compete with. Drake is in the right time and in the right place. His background would have betrayed him in the past rap age groups. He would have ranked under Rass Kass, for sure. People piled on him for being a dork back then despite his lyrical skill. Drake is 100 times softer than him. Eminem would have been picking on him alot harder than people do right now. DMX would have been calling him a faggot and a pussy on live TV like he did Ja Rule constantly. Ja Rule is way harder than Drake is, that is not even up for debate, as sad as that sounds.

Rappers must thrive in the current environment they are in. If they do not fit for their time, it will not work out for them. Just look at MF Doom. Guys him, Cannibus, Tech 9, immortal Technique, etc. were the Tyler the Creators of back then. They laid the path for Tyler and they would arguably be hotter acts right now than they were back in the days when harder rappers existed, not to mention that they could have been have had the crown lyrically in these days full of weird and soft rappers which are now the norm.

Post: #306

--

Post: #307

I totally concur with TravellerKai on this but respectfully disagree on him being totally outclassed during the 7 min freestyle with Big L. Jigga came with that Brooklyn edge buffed down with his constant trips uptown to Harlem. Fcuk, I'm nearly in tears listening to this.

Check it out:






This is Jigga on da graveyard, a track off of Big L's first album 'Lifestylez ov Da Poor and Dangerous'. Forward to 2:50 to hear Jigga hol' it down for Brooklyn on this.

Post: #308

New Drake.

Post: #309

(07-25-2015 08:10 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  New Drake.

This is gonna be interesting. I fully expect Meek to drop a diss track by the end of the week. Aubrey better be prepared for the bars that's about to come his way.

Post: #310

The average Drake fan probably thinks Immortal Technique is a yoga position. Real hip-hop heads didn't feel him before so this ghostwriting shit is just confirmation bias for them aka Drake's stock remains unchanged with both camps.

Lupe wrote a great open letter re: ghostwriting, authenticity, and commercialism in hip-hop from the letter:

Quote:To rappers from a rapper...simply write your own rhymes as much as you can if you are able. Ghostwriting, or borrowing lines, or taking suggestions from the room has always been in rap and will always be in rap. It is nothing to go crazy over or be offended about unless you are someone who postures him or herself on the importance of authenticity and tries to portray that quality to your fans or the public at large

....

Quote:Modern Radio and the commercial realm of music has injured rap. It set up ambiguous rules and systems for success that don't take into consideration the quality and skill of the rappers craft. It redefined rap as just being a beat driven hook with some words in between and an entire generation has surrendered to chasing the format instead of chasing the art form.

Quote:

This is gonna be interesting. I fully expect Meek to drop a diss track by the end of the week. Aubrey better be prepared for the bars that's about to come his way.

Re: Meek Mill having bars...



Meek is basic lyrically so my expectations are very low but beefs do bring out the best in rappers sometimes, i.e. Fat Joe vs. 50 Cent, Nas and Jigga, so you never know really.

Post: #311

(07-25-2015 08:10 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  New Drake.

Post: #312

(07-25-2015 08:56 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  Re: Meek Mill having bars...



Meek is basic lyrically so my expectations are very low but beefs do bring out the best in rappers sometimes, i.e. Fat Joe vs. 50 Cent, Nas and Jigga, so you never know really.

Are you seriously denying Meek Mill doesn't have bars?

I don't want to turn this discussion into a who-is-better-than-whom discussion, but let's be real for a second. Meek Mill is a Philly rapper. Philly rappers are generally known for their bars because they're mostly battle rappers, which is what Meek was before he got signed. Now I'm not saying all battle rappers have bars, but generally speaking, the majority of battle rappers are better than "regular" rappers. See: Tech N9ne, Cassidy, Arsenal, Murda Mook, Dumbfoundead (who now goes by Parker), just to name a few.

Do you seriously think Meek Mill wouldn't obliterate Drake if and when he eventually finds some dirt on him?

If you want to see what Meek is capable of, watch his old battles and his recent feud with Cassidy. I don't think Aubrey is prepared for that.

Post: #313

I won't agree with downplaying scratch tracks, or what is commonly known as reference tracks, especially when dudes are big uppin' themselves as "The Greatest".

I don't have a problem with the fact that dudes have collaborators, but making diss tracks doesn't change the fact that you are paying people to come up with the concepts/verses of your tracks.

Flex claims to have more reference tracks, I'm not sure he has any reason to lie on that:

http://www.vibe.com/2015/07/funkmaster-f...ce-tracks/

Drake has the brand, there's no question about that, he has a look, background, voice, etc. that can be sold to the public, but putting him on the levels of guys like Jay-Z, 2Pac, etc. is wide right like FSU against my alma mater.

Again, I agree with these comments from Flex:



Lastly, Drake should have left Nicki out of the conversation, that's going to come back to bite him in the ass.

As far as this "killing" Meek, miss me with that, this is far from "The Takeover", as usual it's subliminal messages and passive aggressive bravado from Drake.

Post: #314

Quote:I don't want to turn this discussion into a who-is-better-than-whom discussion, but let's be real for a second. Meek Mill is a Philly rapper. Philly rappers are generally known for their bars because they're mostly battle rappers, which is what Meek was before he got signed. Now I'm not saying all battle rappers have bars, but generally speaking, the majority of battle rappers are better than "regular" rappers. See: Tech N9ne, Cassidy, Arsenal, Murda Mook, Dumbfoundead (who now goes by Parker), just to name a few.

As a cat who's been watching battles since Smack was making DVD's I think this assertion about is waaay off base. Most battles rappers I've listened to (Hollow Da Don, The Saurus, Conceited, Jae Millz, Shells, Iron Solomon and everyone you listed besides DFD and Cassidy) have poor deliveries, weak concepts, and aren't able to tell good stories in their songs.

Jin flopped so hard on Interscope that he had to go to Hong Kong. Jae Millz has been riding the bench for YMCMB since 2008. Making catchy and meaningful lyrics is harder than just writing verses in a "set-up and punchline" style most battle rapper do.

Why do you think battle rappers are better than non-battle rappers? You just said that without listing any reasons as it were self-evident.

I didn't know Tech N9ne from Kansas City battled...are you sure you don't mean the Philly also-named Tech-Nine?

Quote:Do you seriously think Meek Mill wouldn't obliterate Drake if and when he eventually finds some dirt on him?

If you want to see what Meek is capable of, watch his old battles and his recent feud with Cassidy. I don't think Aubrey is prepared for that.

Philly cats have bars for days but most them aren't blowing up (see E. Ness, Major Figgas, Philly Swain, Dose, etc) in the game. Being a good battler doesn't translate into making good songs. Like being a good And1 streetballer won't mean a guy will be an NBA all-star even though in both you're places are playing basketball.

Post: #315

Meek Mill raps like he's ordering out a fast food drive thru

Post: #316

(07-26-2015 09:54 AM)FrenchCanadian Wrote:  Meek Mill raps like he's ordering out a fast food drive thru

Post: #317

Meek bodied that "freestyle", although it's always funny when a rapper's crew is in the background rapping along the same lyrics verbatim and basically outing that they are rapping old material. I guess nobody really cares that dude's don't really spit off the top anymore.

Post: #318

I expect Meek Mill to drop a "hit em up" type track.

Post: #319

(07-26-2015 07:58 PM)Joga Bonito Wrote:  Meek bodied that "freestyle", although it's always funny when a rapper's crew is in the background rapping along the same lyrics verbatim and basically outing that they are rapping old material. I guess nobody really cares that dude's don't really spit off the top anymore.

Freestyling died in the early 21st century, everything nowadays is pre-ordered and pre-cooked.

Post: #320

(07-25-2015 08:10 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  New Drake.

The problem for Meek Mill is how he's acting in his relationship with Nicki Minaj. Basically, he's much more invested in it than she is and can't help but show it every time he's in front of a camera. All over a woman who's 30 plus and half plastic.



Meek's leaning in for a kiss, while Nicki plays with her iPhone. That's Drake territory.

But I support Meek's campaign against Drake.

Post: #321

Bacchus, I think Meek is trying to run a power couple thing similar to Jay-Z and Beyonce. It's a business relationship (or supposed to be) more than a simp thing.

Post: #322

(07-26-2015 11:54 PM)Moma Wrote:  Bacchus, I think Meek is trying to run a power couple thing similar to Jay-Z and Beyonce. It's a business relationship (or supposed to be) more than a simp thing.

Joe Buddden called him out on him simpish behavior in the linked video. You would think that Meek Mill, would be used to bagging attractive women, but he's been displaying a ton of simpish behavior in alot of his interviews and concerts, basically worshiping Nikki. Considering the fact that she likes hood dudes, you gotta wonder if dude is eventually going to work his way out of her good graces with his sappy behavior.

Quote:I’m like, ‘I don’t really hold hands, but I’ll hold hands with you.’ She knows that. Like, I don’t really do things but certain people make you do certain little stuff, and it be like, ‘Sh-t, I don’t care.’ They can catch me in the pictures doing anything nowadays, holding an umbrella for Nicki, you know what I’m saying?’

http://necolebitchie.com/2015/04/meek-mi...ka-haters/

Post: #323

(07-25-2015 08:09 PM)Moma Wrote:  I totally concur with TravellerKai on this but respectfully disagree on him being totally outclassed during the 7 min freestyle with Big L. Jigga came with that Brooklyn edge buffed down with his constant trips uptown to Harlem. Fcuk, I'm nearly in tears listening to this.

Check it out:




This is Jigga on da graveyard, a track off of Big L's first album 'Lifestylez ov Da Poor and Dangerous'. Forward to 2:50 to hear Jigga hol' it down for Brooklyn on this.

Break apart the lyrics and read em side by side. Jigga's verses would have been nice by himself on a solo freestyle track, but paired up against L was amateur hour. Reading posts on hiphop forums on track and youtube comments for years and most people agree he was outclassed on that track. Besides, this was a young Jigga trying to get deeper in the rap game back then. No real shame in it at all when you think about it.

He did not do better in Graveyard. Big L ripped the shit outta that track as usual. Jigga just does not fit in with Hardcore Rappers at all. The rest of the DITC crew on that track did better than him except for the second last guy. In fact the only time Big L got outdone (not outclassed) on his own track was the track "Big L - 8 is Enuff". Mike Boogie at the end destroyed that track and turned the mic into ash. In fact, you could make the argument that L had the 4th or 5th best verse on that song. Herb McGruff and Killa Cam had really really cold verses. This song is up there in the lyrical pantheon of hip hop for sure.

Post: #324

(07-25-2015 08:56 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  The average Drake fan probably thinks Immortal Technique is a yoga position. Real hip-hop heads didn't feel him before so this ghostwriting shit is just confirmation bias for them aka Drake's stock remains unchanged with both camps.

Lupe wrote a great open letter re: ghostwriting, authenticity, and commercialism in hip-hop from the letter:

Quote:To rappers from a rapper...simply write your own rhymes as much as you can if you are able. Ghostwriting, or borrowing lines, or taking suggestions from the room has always been in rap and will always be in rap. It is nothing to go crazy over or be offended about unless you are someone who postures him or herself on the importance of authenticity and tries to portray that quality to your fans or the public at large

....

Quote:Modern Radio and the commercial realm of music has injured rap. It set up ambiguous rules and systems for success that don't take into consideration the quality and skill of the rappers craft. It redefined rap as just being a beat driven hook with some words in between and an entire generation has surrendered to chasing the format instead of chasing the art form.

Quote:This is gonna be interesting. I fully expect Meek to drop a diss track by the end of the week. Aubrey better be prepared for the bars that's about to come his way.

Re: Meek Mill having bars...

Meek is basic lyrically so my expectations are very low but beefs do bring out the best in rappers sometimes, i.e. Fat Joe vs. 50 Cent, Nas and Jigga, so you never know really.

I don't care for Lupe's music but as a person he is gold. That quote is pure gold too because it is the cold hard truth.

The only problem I have with this beef and you guys (as well as the rappers) taking sides or positions for and against any of these cats is that, where was the fucking concern for this kind of shit years ago? Hiphop died, yet everyone is getting all holy over ghostwriting. Current rap is so fucking commercial to the point it's a joke. Why are rappers getting salty over authenticity or expecting any of the young cats to be that way? Did I miss something where Drake proclaimed that he writes all his shit and that he is the best lyricist that has ever lived some time ago in the past or something? I do not recall this, if it happened send me a link or something, and forgive me. I just do not understand this level of expectation being hoisted on Drake, as if we were expecting him to be hard or an old school hip hop rapper.

What does Flex have to do with this shit? His ass I can somewhat understand because he is an old hiphop head and was deep in the game for a very long time. He is coming off like the cranky old uncle trumpeting the good old days. Again, that age came and went. Why the expectation? Rap as a pure artform has nothing to do with authenticity. Hiphop when it was the prevailing culture behind rap DID care about that. If he was a true student of hiphop he would understand that concept better.

Post: #325

Jay-Z told Drake all of this was going to happen on their track together, Light Up, off Drake's first album:

"Drake, here's how they gon' come at you
With silly rap feuds, trying to distract you
In disguise, in the form of a favor
The Barzini meet, watch for the traitors"