Post: #1

A few days ago, Jerry Seinfeld said he and some fellow comedians won't play college campuses anymore because the students are too politically correct, get offended too easily, can't take a joke, etc.

Today, Huffington Post printed an "open letter" from San Diego State's newspaper editor Anthony Berteaux basically proving his point. In this frighteningly misguided piece, Berteaux attempts to explain to Seinfeld what comedy should be (yes, you read that right) and how he needs to be funny within the right "context."

He cites Amy Schumer as an example of the right kind of comic. This country is really flying downhill. In the '60s we had students like Mario Savio founding the Berkeley Free Speech movement. Now we have the opposite.

Read it and weep. Link here if you want to see the unfunny Schumer video he included in the text.

***

By Anthony Berteaux

Dear Jerry Seinfeld,

Recently, I've heard about your reluctance to perform on college campuses because of how "politically correct" college students are. You also further made remarks that college students are quick to use the words "racist," "sexist," and "prejudice" with little reverence for what those words really mean (which you felt was proven by a remark made by your 14-year old daughter.)

As a college student that loves and appreciates offensive, provocative comedy, I'm disheartened by these comments.

While I do agree with you that college students today are more sensitive to issues of race and gender politics, it's simply because that's our job as learners. As college students who are engaged in a myriad of social, economic, and political issues, it's our duty to be actively engaged and educated about issues of sexism, racism and prejudice. While, respectively, your daughter might not quite know what's considered "sexist" yet, I can say with confidence that most college students can distinguish the boundaries of what's considered appropriately sexist or not.

But, I'd like to refocus the conversation to the state of comedy that you feel like we would call "racist" or "sexist."

We need to talk about the role that provocative comedy holds today in a progressive world.

It isn't so much that college students are too politically correct (whatever your definition of that concept is), it's that comedy in our progressive society today can no longer afford to be crass, or provocative for the sake of being offensive. Sexist humor and racist humor can no longer exist in comedy because these concepts are based on archaic ideals that have perpetrated injustice against minorities in the past.

Provocative humor, such as ones dealing with topics of race and gender politics, can be crass and vulgar, but underlying it must be a context that spurs social dialogue about these respective issues. There needs to be a message, a central truth behind comedy for it to work as humor.

Take Amy Schumer for example.

A rising comic in her own right, Schumer has become a muse in being able to tackle difficult social commentaries of sexism and racism through her comedy. During the premier of the newest season of Schumer's comedy sketch show Inside Amy Schumer, Schumer and her writers managed to make a topic that most could never conceive of even making humorous: rape.

The sketch, Football Town Lights, a parody of the football series, Friday Night Lights, told the story of a football coach who boldly decides to reform the local town's losing football team by instilling a strict anti-rape rule for his football players. Throughout the sketch, the players and the town folk are simply flabbergasted at the very concept of not being able to rape. One of the players asks the coach, "What if she thinks it's rape, but I don't?" Another player asks, "What if my mom is the district attorney and won't prosecute me? Can I rape?"

Underlying the joke of it all, of course, is the horrifying truth of rape culture existent in high school football, and an even more horrifying reality of the parents attempting to justify it. Earlier this year, we heard of a horrifying case of a gang rape committed by five Florida high school football players and realized the underlying culture of violence and male domination that inhabits high school football.

While it's not the sole role of comics to be social commentators on every issue through their comedy, I believe there is a responsibility, especially when a well-known comic is talking about sensitive topics like race and gender politics, to have an underlying message to be said.

This doesn't mean that the funny aspect of the bit has to be compromised for the sake of social commentary. As countless comedians have proven before, it's very possible to have a message and be hilarious at the same time.

This translates to stand-up comedy as well. Take it from your fellow male comics.

Stand-up comedian, Louis C.K's bit about how much he loves being white can be, at first glance, construed as being "racist" in a traditional sense. He says in his set, "I'm not saying that white people are better, I'm saying that being white is clearly better, who can argue!"

Doesn't that sound a little "racist" to you? But, view it within the context of what he says, Louis C.K. constructs another valuable dialogue about white male privilege, and the historic injustices that this system has created.

A bit that could have been potentially disastrous was made even more hilarious because of the underlying social context of what Louis was saying.

George Carlin, who was revered by many as being one of the comedy "greats," frequently used crass, vulgar and potentially offensive humor in his acts. While by today's standards, some of Carlin's material can be considered sexist and offensive, many of his bits are still appreciated today because of his strong opinions and the underlying context of what he said. Sure, he was offensive when he tried to justify using racial slurs, but as he said a bit, "it's the context that counts. It's the user. It's the intention behind the words that make them good or bad."

Stand-up comedian Todd Glass argued passionately on comedy podcast Sklarbro County, that young comedians who shy away from offensive humor lack the courage to use the medium as a way to create social commentary and dialogue, as Carlin did. Glass called for comedians to be more offensive, but within the right context.

You can be crass, you can be vulgar, and it's not about worrying about offending people. Fuck offending people. Offend the right fucking people. Don't let this fake argument that makes you not want to grow [as a comedian] and say, 'Oh, you're always going offend somebody.' No one said you shouldn't! It's your fake argument! Offend the living fuck out of people! But make sure you're doing it to the right group. Because, I'm sure George Carlin, most of the time, was offending the right people.

So, yes, Mr. Seinfeld, we college students are politically correct. We will call out sexism and racism if we hear it. But if you're going to come to my college and perform in front of me, be prepared to write up a set that doesn't just offend me, but has something to say.

There's no reason you can't do what other comics are doing. You have an amazing legacy, both in stand-up and on television, because you do your job well.

But, there's a generation in college right now that hasn't seen your comedy, and there's a demographic that yearns for laughter. College students today are looking to be provoked, to be offended by comedy, and to think about these issues within the context of comedy.

So please, take the first step and come to a college campus with a set that will make us laugh.

Offend the fuck out of college students. Provoke the fuck out of me. We'll thank you for it later.

Sincerely,
College Student

Post: #2

Post: #3

Edit: damn sonsowey beat me to it!

Post: #4

In fairness, Seinfeld isn't particular shocking or thought provoking (or funny) as a standup comic.

Kids a faggot, though. I support Seinfeld's message on this one and I hope more comedians and musicians start boycotting college shows.

Post: #5

Seinfeld himself saw this coming

Post: #6

^^^^
True, his standup routine is, er, routine. But that sort of plays into a bigger point here.

Even with his inoffensive stage banter, he still got criticized by the diversity police and it seemed to really bother him. For over a year now he's been on a tear against politically correctness.

It's good to hear the guy behind one of the most famous shows of all time take a stand against PC nonsense instead of going along with the crowd. On his show, he did seem to get off on offensive humor, so I think the part of him that did these scenes is coming out now.

Post: #7

It seems both the author of the article and Seinfeld himself are feigning ignorance to the big picture.

The right "context" is you can say anything you want... as a woman.

EDIT: The comments are great!!

Post: #8

Seinfeld simply being a normal guy who wants to do a show with his friends and people he thinks are funny is too transgressive for P.C. people these days. White guys hanging out is "triggering"

Post: #9

Both positions have their merits. A college campus is basically paved with eggshells, but comics like Daniel Tosh, Anthony Jeselnik, Louie CK, and Bill Burr are all very popular with the young crowd and are arguable extremely offensive, controversial, and rail against the sensitivities social politics. Although I will admit that Jeselnik and Tosh have an air of extreme sarcasm about them that gives their act a very "ironic comedy" feel, while Louie and Burr seem like they are talking about their actual opinions on stage which makes it more "real." To that argument, Bill Burr and Louie CK are also bigger comedians who play bigger crowds and sell out shows multiple nights in a row in bigger venues.

I think Jerry's statement has a great message behind it that this triggered and jilted editor's knee jerk reaction totally missed. It's not about whether or not comedians want to play at schools or that college kids, like, totally dig racial comedy with lots of swears. It's that colleges are echo chambers of toxic PC culture and are there to cater to you not challenge you.

It would be nice if college students internalized this message insteadof getting "offended" by it - which is the goto reaction that Jerry is basically addressing.

Post: #10

delete

Post: #11

This little faggot is dangerous. He wants to create a society where they can decide what's acceptable speech.

"Of course you have freedom of speech. As long as you say the right things. Disagreement is violence. Facts are hate."

The issue is not these authoritarian college kids and their badly argued diatribes. Writing and thinking like shit is what they do, and what education is meant to correct.

What should alarm us is:

• Universities explicitly teach progressive ideology. Not how to think, but what to think.
• Media corporations select these stories. They control access to their platform.
  

Universities indoctrinate the students and the media promotes the message. Read some recent history of academia and you see a concerted effort to infiltrate all important positions with left-wing allies.

Post: #12

"Offend the living fuck out of people! But make sure you're doing it to the right group. Because, I'm sure George Carlin, most of the time, was offending the right people."

I'm not sure this guy can even see the point since it's as far above his head as the moon. Did he ever hear George Carlin talk about language and use Eddie Murphy and Richard Pryor as part of a punch line?

The group that is most worried about being offended is exactly the right group to offend, because comedy is supposed to take the piss out of things people take too seriously. If something can be humorous, the concept is no longer too taboo to critically think about. Look at the articles that go viral from RoK. The opposition really gets upset when they perceive anyone to be laughing at them.

Post: #13

That's what happens when we give our kids to the compulsory educational system, where the staff is 99% women. We get obeying castrated brainwashed future manginas. I'm desconstructing this bullshit with my boy everyday so that he gets his dose of redpill.

Post: #14

(06-10-2015 08:55 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  Underlying the joke of it all, of course, is the horrifying truth of rape culture existent in high school football, and an even more horrifying reality of the parents attempting to justify it. Earlier this year, we heard of a horrifying case of a gang rape committed by five Florida high school football players and realized the underlying culture of violence and male domination that inhabits high school football.

These are kids who barely know where their dicks are yet.

Post: #15

I guess comedians can only offend white male heterosexuals, especially if they're poor or working class. That seems to be the only socially acceptable group to offend in this little wiener's mind.

Post: #16

So a sophomore studying "journalism" with no life or career experience of his own thinks he knows more about everything in the comedy biz than Jerry Seinfeld? It would be laughable if this wasn't exactly the sort of useless, entitled and arrogant kind of person created by North American public schooling these days.

It's like they come out of cookie-cutters for God's sake. Do they have ANY original ideas of their own? Do they ever think for one second that they lack the experience and wisdom that it decades in the real world to actually acquire?

I usually don't do this, but I HAVE to tear this guy's typing up. It's just awful. [My comments in the article below bolded and in square brackets.]

(06-10-2015 08:55 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  By Anthony Berteaux

Dear Jerry Seinfeld,

Recently, I've heard about your reluctance to perform on college campuses because of how "politically correct" college students are. You also further made remarks that college students are quick to use the words "racist," "sexist," and "prejudice" with little reverence for what those words really mean (which you felt was proven by a remark made by your 14-year old daughter.)

As a college student that loves and appreciates offensive, provocative comedy, I'm disheartened by these comments. [Translation: You have hurt my feelings and in 21st century North America, there can be no greater offence against a special little snowflake like me.]

While I do agree with you that college students today are more sensitive to issues of race and gender politics, it's simply because that's our job as learners. As college students who are engaged in a myriad of social, economic, and political issues, it's our duty to be actively engaged and educated about issues of sexism, racism and prejudice. [I thought it was your "job" and "duty" to get educated, not radically repeat everything you are told by your SJW professors?] While, respectively, your daughter might not quite know what's considered "sexist" yet, I can say with confidence that most college students can distinguish the boundaries of what's considered appropriately sexist or not. [For example, there is no sexism whatsoever in a complete lack of due process for males on campus accused of sexual assault, and no sexist double standard that it is the male student who is always portrayed as the predator when two drunken college students have sex. Forgive me if I think a college campus is the LAST place on Earth that I would expect would be able to detect sexism.]

But, I'd like to refocus the conversation to the state of comedy that you feel like we would call "racist" or "sexist."

We need to talk about the role that provocative comedy holds today in a progressive world. [Translation: "Progressive world" = my preferred world, therefore progressive = truth, therefore we live in a "progressive world" and fuck anyone who disagrees.]

It isn't so much that college students are too politically correct (whatever your definition of that concept is), it's that comedy in our progressive society today can no longer afford to be crass, or provocative for the sake of being offensive. Sexist humor and racist humor can no longer exist in comedy because these concepts are based on archaic ideals that have perpetrated injustice against minorities in the past. [Translation: Your freedom of expression, a constitutionally guaranteed right, must yield to my sense of badfeels and crimethink.]

Provocative humor, such as ones dealing with topics of race and gender politics, can be crass and vulgar, but underlying it must be a context that spurs social dialogue about these respective issues. There needs to be a message, a central truth behind comedy for it to work as humor. [So politically incorrect humour is always false? Jesus has this clown been indoctrinated.]

Take Amy Schumer for example.

A rising comic in her own right, Schumer has become a muse in being able to tackle difficult social commentaries of sexism and racism through her comedy. During the premier of the newest season of Schumer's comedy sketch show Inside Amy Schumer, Schumer and her writers managed to make a topic that most could never conceive of even making humorous: rape. [Yes and her comment about how she could "catch a dick" whenever she wanted even though she's fat are indicative of this keen social consciousness her comedy possesses.]

The sketch, Football Town Lights, a parody of the football series, Friday Night Lights, told the story of a football coach who boldly decides to reform the local town's losing football team by instilling a strict anti-rape rule for his football players. Throughout the sketch, the players and the town folk are simply flabbergasted at the very concept of not being able to rape. One of the players asks the coach, "What if she thinks it's rape, but I don't?" Another player asks, "What if my mom is the district attorney and won't prosecute me? Can I rape?"

Underlying the joke of it all, of course, is the horrifying truth of rape culture existent in high school football, and an even more horrifying reality of the parents attempting to justify it. Earlier this year, we heard of a horrifying case of a gang rape committed by five Florida high school football players and realized the underlying culture of violence and male domination that inhabits high school football. [Translation: I believe in rape culture, because I've been told to believe in it in school, therefore, we live in a rape culture. That's some fine exercise of free will, independence and critical thought there.]

While it's not the sole role of comics to be social commentators on every issue through their comedy, I believe there is a responsibility, especially when a well-known comic is talking about sensitive topics like race and gender politics, to have an underlying message to be said. [The sense of entitlement is unbelievable. Can't a comic just try to make a goddamn living instead of becoming an obligatory SJW on the side? By what right do you demand that someone espouse the same political views as you, especially in their private sector existence?]

This doesn't mean that the funny aspect of the bit has to be compromised for the sake of social commentary. As countless comedians have proven before, it's very possible to have a message and be hilarious at the same time. [Unless it's politically incorrect, apparently.]

This translates to stand-up comedy as well. Take it from your fellow male comics.

Stand-up comedian, Louis C.K's bit about how much he loves being white can be, at first glance, construed as being "racist" in a traditional sense. He says in his set, "I'm not saying that white people are better, I'm saying that being white is clearly better, who can argue!"

Doesn't that sound a little "racist" to you? But, view it within the context of what he says, Louis C.K. constructs another valuable dialogue about white male privilege, and the historic injustices that this system has created. [Or maybe he's a closet white supremacist and is getting away with "micro-aggressions" against minorities disguised in this "dialogue"? My interpretation is equally plausible as yours.]

A bit that could have been potentially disastrous was made even more hilarious because of the underlying social context of what Louis was saying.

George Carlin, who was revered by many as being one of the comedy "greats," frequently used crass, vulgar and potentially offensive humor in his acts. While by today's standards, some of Carlin's material can be considered sexist and offensive, many of his bits are still appreciated today because of his strong opinions and the underlying context of what he said. Sure, he was offensive when he tried to justify using racial slurs, but as he said a bit, "it's the context that counts. It's the user. It's the intention behind the words that make them good or bad." [So by that logic, you cannot be offended by crass, vulgar or politically incorrect comedy so long as the person "says" that it is not their intention to be politically incorrect? Boy are you the type of person the Democrats in the US love. I can piss on your foot and tell you it's raining and you would be none the wiser, I guess.]

Stand-up comedian Todd Glass argued passionately on comedy podcast Sklarbro County, that young comedians who shy away from offensive humor lack the courage to use the medium as a way to create social commentary and dialogue, as Carlin did. Glass called for comedians to be more offensive, but within the right context.

You can be crass, you can be vulgar, and it's not about worrying about offending people. Fuck offending people. Offend the right fucking people. [Are white, heterosexual males the "right" people by any chance? And capitalists, don't forget them.] Don't let this fake argument that makes you not want to grow [as a comedian] and say, 'Oh, you're always going offend somebody.' No one said you shouldn't! It's your fake argument! Offend the living fuck out of people! But make sure you're doing it to the right group. [Implied threat here is not so implicit. "We are watching you to see if you deviate from the Borg Collective".] Because, I'm sure George Carlin, most of the time, was offending the right people. [Wrong. Patently wrong. He said whatever the hell he wanted, that was the point.]

So, yes, Mr. Seinfeld, we college students are politically correct. We will call out sexism and racism if we hear it. But if you're going to come to my college and perform in front of me, be prepared to write up a set that doesn't just offend me, but has something to say.

There's no reason you can't do what other comics are doing. You have an amazing legacy, both in stand-up and on television, because you do your job well.

But, there's a generation in college right now that hasn't seen your comedy, and there's a demographic that yearns for laughter. College students today are looking to be provoked, to be offended by comedy, and to think about these issues within the context of comedy. [If you are the typical college student, and you appear to be, Seinfeld is right to stay FAR away. He doesn't need the grief.]

So please, take the first step and come to a college campus with a set that will make us laugh.

Offend the fuck out of college students. Provoke the fuck out of me. We'll thank you for it later. [Translation: I'll report you to the human rights commission.]

Sincerely,
College Student

Post: #17

Quote: Underlying the joke of it all, of course, is the horrifying truth of rape culture existent in high school football, and an even more horrifying reality of the parents attempting to justify it. Earlier this year, we heard of a horrifying case of a gang rape committed by five Florida high school football players and realized the underlying culture of violence and male domination that inhabits high school football.

When I read this part I actually just stopped for a second to take it in. This is just deluded.

And then he's gunna cite one case as evidence to a there being a rape culture prevalent throughout high school football.

You can even take these loons seriously. I mean I just struggle to even comprehend how these people's brains work.

Post: #18

(06-10-2015 10:35 AM)Blackwell Wrote:  

Quote: Underlying the joke of it all, of course, is the horrifying truth of rape culture existent in high school football, and an even more horrifying reality of the parents attempting to justify it. Earlier this year, we heard of a horrifying case of a gang rape committed by five Florida high school football players and realized the underlying culture of violence and male domination that inhabits high school football.

When I read this part I actually just stopped for a second to take it in. This is just deluded.

And then he's gunna cite one case as evidence to a there being a rape culture prevalent throughout high school football.

You can even take these loons seriously. I mean I just struggle to even comprehend how these people's brains work.

It's a combination of indoctrination via academia, which is subsequently hardened and reinforced by the hermetically sealed echo chamber they find themselves in University/College.
They are utterly convinced they are 'right', with the vast majority, there is no point to argue with them, as they also do not comprehend our position.
However there's a small minority who at least make some attempt to understand the position of the other side, those at least I give some respect to, but not those who choose to wallow in the bovine cesspool of Groupthink.

Post: #19

OP forgot to put a "TL;DR: I'm a douchebag faggot oxygen-waster who will never provide any value to society, Sincerely College-debt masochist" after the letter.

That said, I've never laughed at a single thing Seinfeld ever said. He sounds bored, like he's doing a job he considers a grind, and his comedy is droll. CK is great though.

Post: #20

I'm not sure if anybody pointed this out but as far as I see it, the point that Jerry Seinfeld is making is that the juice is not worth the squeeze. What established and sensible comedian wants to go to a lower paying venue (a college) that carries the high risk of being embroiled in a PC scandal?

This little whiner writing the letter simply does not understand the concept of risk/reward and further makes the point that you have to offend "the right people", whoever the fuck that is. Accidentally stepping on toes is somehow not considered as a possibility despite SWPLs being able to get offended by damned near anything.

If I could make a lot of money touring actual comedy circuits with paying customers who are old enough to be adults about offensive humor then I'd take that any time over a bunch of women's studies and communications double majors who make "calling out sexism and racism as we see it" a guarantee the second they hear the minimum number of buzzwords in a sentence to feel triggered.

(06-10-2015 10:35 AM)Blackwell Wrote:  

Quote: Underlying the joke of it all, of course, is the horrifying truth of rape culture existent in high school football, and an even more horrifying reality of the parents attempting to justify it. Earlier this year, we heard of a horrifying case of a gang rape committed by five Florida high school football players and realized the underlying culture of violence and male domination that inhabits high school football.

When I read this part I actually just stopped for a second to take it in. This is just deluded.

And then he's gunna cite one case as evidence to a there being a rape culture prevalent throughout high school football.

You can even take these loons seriously. I mean I just struggle to even comprehend how these people's brains work.

Yeah, the dickhead writing this piece seems to believe that if you write the word "horrifying" enough times, then a gray rape incident involving lots of alcohol is on par with the Holocaust.

Post: #21

On a related note:

College Encourages Lively Exchange Of Idea: Students, Faculty Invited To Freely Express Single Viewpoint

Data sheet maps

Post: #22

(06-10-2015 09:21 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

The best part is, as Seinfeld points out, just about everybody in that audience is a white male. Is this jerkoff interviewer contributing to racism/sexism?

Post: #23

What's hilarious is Seinfeld is still in syndication. Jerry, David, and all of those folks get a cut of the money when a show airs.

They're practically vomiting up cash.

Amy Shumer? I'll pass. She's mildly funny and I don't enjoy her constant joking about sex, sexism, vaginas, periods, dating, etc. At least Jerry extends his jokes into realms that are mundane.

Efficacy always wins. Jerry's jokes tend to be timeless hence why a show that ended airing 17 years ago is still on the air. I doubt Shumer's show will ever get that far.

Post: #24

Chris Rock basically said the same thing about college campuses a while ago, but no one made a big deal when he said it.
http://www.vulture.com/2014/11/chris-roc...ation.html

What do you make of the attempt to bar Bill Maher from speaking at Berkeley for his riff on Muslims?3
Well, I love Bill, but I stopped playing colleges, and the reason is because they’re way too conservative.
In their political views?
Not in their political views — not like they’re voting Republican — but in their social views and their willingness not to offend anybody. Kids raised on a culture of “We’re not going to keep score in the game because we don’t want anybody to lose.” Or just ignoring race to a fault. You can’t say “the black kid over there.” No, it’s “the guy with the red shoes.” You can’t even be offensive on your way to being inoffensive.
When did you start to notice this?
About eight years ago. Probably a couple of tours ago. It was just like, This is not as much fun as it used to be. I remember talking to George Carlin before he died and him saying the exact same thing.

Post: #25

We had this problem in the UK some years ago. The man who plays Mr Bean and Blackadder, Rowan Atkinson came out along with his fellow peers on this very subject and how it (political correctness) is strangling comedy which many people, unlike what these dickheads believe people like, absolutely love.

There is a strong bias against comedy which can offend or mock. The people who are against it think and behave like Marxists.