Post: #1

Look at this editorial and ask yourself: is this The Onion or The Wall Street Journal?

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/06/0...consumers/

Quote:Dear American Consumer,

This is The Wall Street Journal. We’re writing to ask if something is bothering you.

The sun shined in April and you didn’t spend much money. The Commerce Department here in Washington says your spending didn’t increase at all adjusted for inflation last month compared to March. You appear to have mostly stayed home and watched television in December, January and February as well. We thought you would be out of your winter doldrums by now, but we don’t see much evidence that this is the case.

You have been saving more too. You socked away 5.6% of your income in April after taxes, even more than in March. This saving is not like you. What’s up?

We know you experienced a terrible shock when Lehman Brothers collapsed in 2008 and your employer responded by firing you. We know stock prices collapsed and that was shocking too. We also know you shouldn’t have taken out that large second mortgage during the housing boom to fix up your kitchen with granite countertops. You’ve been working very hard to pay off this debt and we admire your fortitude. But these shocks seem like a long time ago to us in a newsroom. Is that still what’s holding you back?

Do you know the American economy is counting on you? We can’t count on the rest of the world to spend money on our stuff. The rest of the world is in an even worse mood than you are. You should feel lucky you’re not a Greek consumer. And China, well they’re truly struggling there just to reach the very modest goal of 7% growth.

The Federal Reserve is counting on you too. Fed officials want to start raising the cost of your borrowing because they worry they’ve been giving you a free ride for too long with zero interest rates. We listen to Fed officials all of the time here at The Wall Street Journal, and they just can’t figure you out.

Please let us know the problem. You can reach us at any of the emails below.

Sincerely,

The Wall Street Journal’s Central Bank Team

-By Jon Hilsenrath

The Federal Reserve hasn't injected fresh QE cash into the system for about a year now, so Americans have no more free money to spend and the economy is currently circling the drain. The middle class continues it's steady erosion, yet the 1% remain hopelessly out of touch with desperate editorials like the one above to convince people to buy more useless shit so the rich can get richer.

Post: #2

What really annoys me is when these same talking heads evangelize entrepreneurship as the answer to our woes. Like, oh great, more dumb shit to buy. Exactly what the doctor ordered.

Post: #3

(06-03-2015 03:03 AM)magellan Wrote:  What really annoys me is when these same talking heads evangelize entrepreneurship as the answer to our woes. Like, oh great, more dumb shit to buy. Exactly what the doctor ordered.

Without entrepreneurship there is is no economy in a capitalist society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy

Why are you even on this website since Roosh just sells "dumb shit" for you to buy?

Post: #4

Individual entrepreneurship is set to go.

With the new mostly top secret TPP huge corporations have such competitive advantages that even countries have zero power anymore.

Small companies are also set to disappear. Currently they leave the stuff earned over the internet mostly alone - but the boot of dictatorship will come down on that too.

They are doing it a bit as satire, but interlace it with the usual propaganda to still blame the people.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-02...-leaks-tpp

Post: #5

(06-03-2015 03:03 AM)magellan Wrote:  What really annoys me is when these same talking heads evangelize entrepreneurship as the answer to our woes. Like, oh great, more dumb shit to buy. Exactly what the doctor ordered.

Entrepreneurs are fantastic.

We need more. What if we all focused on creating something useful and selling it to people who really wanted/needed it instead of just being a cog in some rich guy's mechanism to put even more money in his own pocket.

Post: #6

Every time I hear one of these blockheads blame "consumer confidence" for a bad economy I want to take a baseball bat to the tv. So it's my fault that I'm not blindly consuming?

Post: #7

I think it's pretty obvious that the editorial is satirical in nature.

Post: #8

It's satire. Here is the WSJ response:

Quote:Readers reacted strongly to Tuesday’s Grand Central commentary, a tongue-in-cheek and ironic letter to American consumers asking why their spending had slowed in recent months.

Household spending is a real puzzle at this moment. After growing slowly for much of the recovery, consumer spending appeared to be picking up early this year. It rose 3.4% in January from a year earlier, after adjusting for inflation, the fastest pace of the expansion. It seemed to be set to rise at a quicker clip in the coming months, thanks in large part to the recent decline in gasoline prices. Instead, spending slowed through April, a development that is puzzling economists. Why did spending slow early this year when households appeared, finally, to have some wind at their backs?

We asked readers to respond. Here is a summation of what they said:

A number commented on the tone of the commentary. While a small number found the tone to be clever, many found it offensive. Some said the item showed this reporter is arrogant, elitist and out of touch with the challenges faced by many Americans. That spoke to a broader mistrust that many respondents expressed toward a wide array of American institutions, including the Federal Reserve, banks, the media, corporations and the Obama Administration. Moreover many expressed a lack of conviction that the U.S. expansion would last, or that it was spreading prosperity beyond America’s elites. Others described serious continuing financial burdens related to high debts, a rising cost of living, health care costs, and a lack of wage growth.

The item was signed The Wall Street Journal’s Central Banks team. It was conceived and written only by this reporter.

“Interest rates may be zero,” said reader Thomas Eckenrode, “but I know many people with credit card debt of $10,000 paying 15%.” He added student debt is an even bigger burden for his family.

“Simply put the middle class is debt ridden and struggling,” said reader Nate York. “Many people are hunkering down instead of casually spending.”

In a twist, car dealers Tuesday reported sales in May hit a 10-year high. That might be the first concrete sign of an actual pickup in spending this year. Judging solely from the responses of Wall Street Journal readers, however, you should not expect a big spending rebound. They say a deep undercurrent of mistrust and economic strain still holds back many Americans, regardless of what the numbers say.

Post: #9

You call it satire. Most people call him an arrogant prick.

Post: #10

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Post: #11

I didn't know it took consumer confidence to stack up massive toxic debts and sell them on. I thought it took creative thinking, lies and cover ups on a massive scale. Something we're seeing in the EU.

I wonder how many lives were taken as a result of someone pursuing the dream of plundering a nations debt into the ground.

Post: #12

While the article is satire the truth is that disposable income has been falling for most Americans since the early 1980s.

Consumer spending has been upheld mostly by increase in debt:



In the 1980s it was mostly credit cards and personal loans, later it moved into refinancing of real estate to free consumer spending. That ended in 2008. Meanwhile jobs have gone offshore and with the new TPP it will become much worse. Situation would be much worse if they did not take millions of Millennials off the employment market by giving them ample credit to finance their usually worthless education. That bubble is now over one trillion $ and there are no jobs for the young to repay it all.

All the economic numbers are severely manipulated to hide all those facts - otherwise many would not even take out the loans they do now.

While the article was written as satire, it embedded the old fake points of blaming the real estate bubble on US households who renovated their kitchens. In reality the bubble was about much more than subprime real estate - it was more fraud on worldwide scale, but who is remembering that at the Wallstreetjournal? Blame the slave for being such a stupid slave.


Compound interest is such a wonderful tool to finally own it all in the end.

Post: #13

(06-03-2015 11:23 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Blame the slave for being such a stupid slave.

Let's be honest.

That's a huge part of the problem.

Post: #14

(06-03-2015 11:28 AM)Darius Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 11:23 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Blame the slave for being such a stupid slave.

Let's be honest.

That's a huge part of the problem.

Should definitely cut master's throat in the dark of night

WIA

Post: #15

Saving is for losers in the first place, that's what the 99% doesn't know. Your money isn't worth tomorrow what it was today.

The only way to get ahead is entrepreneurship and owning your own shop. There will be no middle class in 15-20 years. Only the elite and the poor.

Post: #16

(06-03-2015 11:28 AM)Darius Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 11:23 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Blame the slave for being such a stupid slave.

Let's be honest.

That's a huge part of the problem.

I'm with Darius. Normal people are not completely innocent. Yes there are ridiculous subsidies and escapes given to and available to large businesses that behave badly. Combine that with ridiculous laws like good ol Obamacare that has seen health insurance premiums increase 55% since 2014 in my state...there is an impact on working people.

But. Working people also do it to themselves in the same way that fat people do it to themselves. No one is forced to take on credit card debt, to get a home equity loan or to go 60k in debt to drink beer on campus. The greed of the little people is also at fault.

Same at fat people...are the twinkies manufacturers entirely to blame that their products are so cheap, and so tasty that fat people just can't help eating them? No, fat people have no self control and the twinkies corporation makes products so diabolically sweet that it challenges that weak self control.

Post: #17

I save 26% for long term investments and a further 15% for holidays. If I had a high salary it would be a larger share. A savings rate of 5.6% seems low

Post: #18

Probably because the official economic metrics are heavily tampered with. There's a reason every single release of economic news in the past few months has been "revised downwards" a week or two after the initial press release comes out.

Post: #19

I could immediately tell this was satire and it SHOULD raise eyebrows.

We do make stupid decisions, but that is a drop in an ocean of corporate criminal activity.

I've never owned a credit card, always lived within my means, the only loan I have is student loans and a 3 year car loan that will be paid off early in a few months. Our company is now matching our 401K contributions (I've recently started mine).

To be honest I don't have much in savings, but I do have a reserve which I should increase or deposit into my 401K.

I don't own a house, I live with a relative, I'm not planning on buying a house, especially if I won't be getting married. Perhaps a condo would be smarter or a town house.

Everything I pay for such as music festivals or trips, I pay in advance. For sports tickets I always find the best detail.

I also have an action sports retail job, saves me money on clothing/accessories, also use my discount to get discounts elsewhere.

I don't know what's going to happen on wall street, but they control the government.

Post: #20

(06-03-2015 11:38 AM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  Saving is for losers in the first place, that's what the 99% doesn't know. Your money isn't worth tomorrow what it was today.

The only way to get ahead is entrepreneurship and owning your own shop. There will be no middle class in 15-20 years. Only the elite and the poor.

The thing is this - most people cannot be entrepreneurs. Even in the times of small businesses this was not possible - in our times even less so.

I prefer a system where you don't have to be born in the 1-5% of intelligence, willpower or affluence to have a decent life. Extreme systems always crumble sooner or later or you are left living in militarized compounds and sending your kids offshore.

Post: #21

(06-03-2015 11:38 AM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  Saving is for losers in the first place, that's what the 99% doesn't know. Your money isn't worth tomorrow what it was today.

The only way to get ahead is entrepreneurship and owning your own shop. There will be no middle class in 15-20 years. Only the elite and the poor.

That's completely wrong.

Have you achieved any wealth and success yourself? Or are you just repeating stuff you heard online?

Post: #22

(06-03-2015 11:38 AM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  Saving is for losers in the first place, that's what the 99% doesn't know. Your money isn't worth tomorrow what it was today.

There are plenty of investment vehicles that will outpace inflation. Simply socking money away in a savings account won't do much for you, that much is true. But even a minimal amount of due diligence will allow a person to invest their money wisely.

Post: #23

(06-03-2015 01:44 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  The thing is this - most people cannot be entrepreneurs. Even in the times of small businesses this was not possible - in our times even less so.

It has never been easier to start a business. Technology has made it so that all the roadblocks to starting a business have been removed.

This forum is a community full of entrepreneurs.

Post: #24

(06-03-2015 02:10 PM)Socrates Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 11:38 AM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  Saving is for losers in the first place, that's what the 99% doesn't know. Your money isn't worth tomorrow what it was today.

There are plenty of investment vehicles that will outpace inflation. Simply socking money away in a savings account won't do much for you, that much is true. But even a minimal amount of due diligence will allow a person to invest their money wisely.

I agree, some things are volatile and mysterious but other ways to transform your savings are not. An acre of land with useable timber growing on top has been worth something to someone for centuries...if not a refuge to the owner in a 'total collapse'

I am a skeptic of 401ks and IRAs as a place to save in though. The world is just changing to much to trust that a vehicle endorsed by the government will be the same when I am of retirement age in 30 years. Remember its tax deferred, not tax free. You can pay tax on it when you are 70, or today. Do you think taxes are going to stay constant, increase or decrease over time? I bet on increase over today. Do you think that the government is going to 'play fair' and not alter the rules on tax treatments of investments...even though the holy grail of social security is already being eyeballed? I bet on the government fucking up things like they usually seem to do. That 'bet' is why I prefer not to have my investments in 401k's or IRA's and instead pay the tax now to call it "mine" or put it into a Roth which is tax exempt into the future vs. deferred.

If you doubt this, remember when employer pensions was something that everyone had and were considered secure and untouchable? Maybe everyone wasn't alive in the 80s....but there were plenty of pension scandals that saw that they were unfunded or mismanaged. I had two grandparents with pensions that collapsed while they were in retirement, but they were fine as they also had their own personal investments.

Post: #25

(06-03-2015 02:25 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  I agree, some things are volatile and mysterious but other ways to transform your savings are not. An acre of land with useable timber growing on top has been worth something to someone for centuries...if not a refuge to the owner in a 'total collapse'

In a total collapse scenario most people will be screwed no matter how they prepare financially.

Quote: I am a skeptic of 401ks and IRAs as a place to save in though. The world is just changing to much to trust that a vehicle endorsed by the government will be the same when I am of retirement age in 30 years. Remember its tax deferred, not tax free. You can pay tax on it when you are 70, or today. Do you think taxes are going to stay constant, increase or decrease over time? I bet on increase over today. Do you think that the government is going to 'play fair' and not alter the rules on tax treatments of investments...even though the holy grail of social security is already being eyeballed? I bet on the government fucking up things like they usually seem to do. That 'bet' is why I prefer not to have my investments in 401k's or IRA's and instead pay the tax now to call it "mine" or put it into a Roth which is tax exempt into the future vs. deferred.

An excellent point on 401k's. The conventional wisdom says that a person's tax rate should be less once they are in retirement. But conventional wisdom is often proven false. I would take advantage of a 401k to the point of an employer's match if there is one. Beyond that, however, you need to decide for yourself what you believe about the future and what you want your lifestyle to look like. I've been reading the Mr. Money Mustache blog and am trying to implement much of his philosophy in my life. Less consumerism, more saving.