Post: #126

Quote: Colonel Gaddafi warns Europe over “turning black”

But there’s method in his madness. [N°6: No, the Europeans are mad. 'Those the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad.]

The Libyan ruler, Colonel Gaddafi, has used a summit in Tripoli to warn that Europe risks "turning black" unless Libya is given £4bn a year by the EU to keep out illegal immigrants from Africa. "We should stop this illegal immigration. If we don't, Europe will become black, it will be overcome by people with different religions, it will change," he said.

He made the threat before in the summer, during a three-day visit to Italy. "We don't know what will happen, what will be the reaction of the white and Christian Europeans faced with this influx of starving and ignorant Africans," he said. "We don't know if Europe will remain an advanced and united continent or if it will be destroyed, as happened with the barbarian invasions."

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-st...ack-europe

Post: #127

Off topic I know but I see the New Statesman is still a circle jerk of deluded pseudo intellectual liberals.
An article calling Farage a cunt? We've got one of those for ya!
An article praising the hysteria over 'Protein World'? Yup, got us some of that too!
Conchita Wurst's opinion of Merkel's dress sense? We're gonna make that leading article!
You cannot make this shit up.

Post: #128

This chart posted by Lizard King is the most important one posted on this thread, and it's tantamount to understand why a place such as the UK, has managed to fully absorb its immigrants into the labour force. And why a place such as Sweden, a feminist socialist paradise, has completely and utterly failed.

America for all it's troubles, just like Canada, the UK, and Australia has managed to fully absorb its immigrants into the labour market successfully. Does the Anglo system offer and advantage when it comes to absorption of newcomers? Can it be replicated? This is the sort of questions policy makers will grapple with in the next few decades.

Post: #129

(05-15-2015 06:24 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  This chart posted by Lizard King is the most important one posted on this thread, and it's tantamount to understand why a place such as the UK, has managed to fully absorb its immigrants into the labour force. And why a place such as Sweden, a feminist socialist paradise, has completely and utterly failed.

America for all it's troubles, just like Canada, the UK, and Australia has managed to fully absorb its immigrants into the labour market successfully. Does the Anglo system offer and advantage when it comes to absorption of newcomers? Can it be replicated? This is the sort of questions policy makers will grapple with in the next few decades.

If you haven't seen it, check out the Red Ice video: "Insight - A New Stockholm To Be Built Within 6 Years"

http://www.redicecreations.com/TV/2015/I...ckholm.php

There are some very choice comments from the Swedish élite (who of course live nowhere near multiculturally enriched areas and who certainly do not send their children to schools requiring Swedish translators) who openly mention that the native population is to be replaced.

The Anglo labour markets are low waged, low security, hire and fire in nature with labour unions caring more about transgender WCs at work and hoping that the workers of the world will unite through the multicult experiment. This is why cheap labour is quickly absorbed there.

Post: #130

(05-16-2015 01:41 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 06:24 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  This chart posted by Lizard King is the most important one posted on this thread, and it's tantamount to understand why a place such as the UK, has managed to fully absorb its immigrants into the labour force. And why a place such as Sweden, a feminist socialist paradise, has completely and utterly failed.

America for all it's troubles, just like Canada, the UK, and Australia has managed to fully absorb its immigrants into the labour market successfully. Does the Anglo system offer and advantage when it comes to absorption of newcomers? Can it be replicated? This is the sort of questions policy makers will grapple with in the next few decades.

If you haven't seen it, check out the Red Ice video: "Insight - A New Stockholm To Be Built Within 6 Years"

http://www.redicecreations.com/TV/2015/I...ckholm.php

There are some very choice comments from the Swedish élite (who of course live nowhere near multiculturally enriched areas and who certainly do not send their children to schools requiring Swedish translators) who openly mention that the native population is to be replaced.

The Anglo labour markets are low waged, low security, hire and fire in nature with labour unions caring more about transgender WCs at work and hoping that the workers of the world will unite through the multicult experiment. This is why cheap labour is quickly absorbed there.

Exactly - in the UK there is even competition at higher levels with well-educated young men from India, Greece or even EE flooding better positions in the City. HR managers told me that sometimes the only candidates left for some positions are from Oxford, Greece and India. Do you think that the Indian and Greek guy have the same wage demands as the one coming from Oxford?

Wage pressure is happening even at jobs of 70k+ net. The rest as No6 has correctly put it are low level jobs with race-to-the-bottom-pay that cannot be edged higher because the unions are a thing of the past.

The real unemployment numbers are terrible in all countries with massive immigration. Governments are using plenty of faulty statistics. Yes - Sweden has a high wage structure that barely bends and they don't create those working-poor jobs as much. But all countries suffer.

Recently the Gallup CEO jokingly mentioned on CNBC that if he would ever question the government jobless statistics, then he would suddenly disappear.



http://wallstreetonparade.com/2015/02/ga...jobs-data/

Even the bloody head of the Bank of England says openly that immigrants are dragging down wages and are thus reducing massively disposable income. At lower levels unions are becoming ever more ineffective and at higher levels you just have lower bargaining power. The only party who are winning are huge corporations. But since the purchasing strength of the entire population is diminishing then there are only the bare essentials which are striving: rental properties, minimum level consumer products and the branches catering to the rich. Essentially the Western countries are becoming more extreme in income distribution and the middle class is disappearing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-year.html

I will drop a few stats here and just let it go - reminding everyone that I don't accuse the immigrants. They do what they can to have a better life. But no - they are not creating a better life for the indigenous population by coming over - not at current economic climate. Little known fact - the US is contrary to popular opinion not a country of immigrants. While it is true that 200.000 people were coming over yearly for decades, the reality is that the vast overwhelming population growth was created by the new Americans having 10+ children. The massive immigration barely registered. The pendulum swung only in the 1960s after the pill and fertility dropped. Also by then immigration revved up to 500k, then 1 mio, now reaching over 2 mio+ each year (legal and illegal) in the US.


   
Income distribution.


Real unemployment - with the current statistics many people are excluded from the job front - those who stopped looking, those who are on some kind of benefits, those who had a job that kept them 6-15 hours employed and netted them 3000-10000$/year. Yeah - you heard it right a 6 hour/week job counts as a good solid middle class 50k job in the US statistics. And yes the Gallup CEO would indeed mysteriously disappear if he ever started stating the obvious too loudly. At least in the West there is social security or there would be big riots already.

Post: #131

Zelcorpion:
I have a question . (not trolling, just real question)

What do you think of highly skilled immigrants (minimum of master 2 in Europe, or masters degree in Anglosphere, in a somewhat skilled field -not psychology or women studies, but computer science, engineering, aviation, finance etc)?

Do you think they should be allowed to have a professionnal experience, and after like 5-10 years of working, deserve citizenship?


I ask this because there are lot of rants towards immigrants on this forum, but most examples (including unemployment) that are picked are those of immigrants with low-skill jobs, or BS degrees.

Post: #132

Mikado, I think that regrding that particular topic, you won't see a skilled immigrant trying to get into Europe using that sort of boat, right?

And regarding your question, why yes they certainly should have a chance in the labour market and later citizenship if it comes to that.

Post: #133

(05-16-2015 05:51 AM)mikado Wrote:  Zelcorpion:
I have a question . (not trolling, just real question)

What do you think of highly skilled immigrants (minimum of master 2 in Europe, or masters degree in Anglosphere, in a somewhat skilled field -not psychology or women studies, but computer science, engineering, aviation, finance etc)?

Do you think they should be allowed to have a professionnal experience, and after like 5-10 years of working, deserve citizenship?
I ask this because there are lot of rants towards immigrants on this forum, but most examples (including unemployment) that are picked are those of immigrants with low-skill jobs, or BS degrees.

Look - I am not ranting. I am not accusing immigrants. And as I stated in my last post - there is even evidence as professed by the Head of the Bank of England, that immigration creates wage pressure even in better positions. I just wrote about that.

Your question about a person deserving the citizenship after having worked and contributed to a country - yes, of course. But the entire system is broken.

Let's say if I were suddenly in charge, then all of that immigration would be moot, since I would create interest free money via social credit and demurrage. Plus real estate credit based on the purchasing power of the individual would be interest free. Since you would at the same time issue money as well as partake in the common wealth of your country, then everyone would have a minimum degree of money.
And those things were done in the past (Woergl 1930s, Canad until 1970s partly, various local interest free currencies like WIR or interest free real estate credit like with the Swedish JAK Bank).

I would also enact strong tariffs and let every country create everything that it potentially can within the country. Similar to China or Japan you have high tariffs on anything that you can produce yourself (cars, electronics) or want to protect in your contry (rice, agriculture etc.).

So in reality people would stop leaving their countries and become prosperous and happy at home. The few that would leave for various reasons would not even make a dent. If living standards became similar you could even open all borders over time - most people would not leave anyway.

So yeah - make it as you will of my opinion. The EU is destined to become inhabited by a majority of non-Europeans within the next 40-50 years and the US is going to become mostly Latin. I don't buy the crap that whites will die out. The whites in South America did not die out at all - the top of each country is whiter than Europeans in many instances. So I don't fear anything Stormfront related.

And all countries will be easier to rule being divided, "diverse" and plenty of other negatives that will become apparent only later on. Neither of us is going to change that Mikado.

I just don't defend crappy changes and claim that it is all garden and roses - that this "ensures" social security, balances the low population growth or that most immigrants contribute and integrate. No chance - our current economic system and cycle cannot possibly support that unless you want to end in Dickensian-like circumstances. South American rich living behind barbed wires and machine gun turrets on one side and favelas and the majority of the working poor on the other side - currently that is already developing in the West with social security recipients not having worked for 2 generations (Sweden, UK, Germany, partly US). You heard that - you have some families and single mothers who became jobless somewhere in the 1980s and their children are jobless too and haven't worked a day in their life in their 20s.

Most of us here are not hating on immigrants - neither low-skilled nor high-skilled.

Post: #134

Ok, fair enough.

Actually, at least passively, I don't find most of the propositions on limiting immigration that scandalous. However I think that today, the immigration of those who are truly in danger in their home country, those who come with some level of skills and not only for sucking welfare, and also in general want to embrace the host country's history and culture mustn't be prevented from getting at least a temporary visa for a few years.

What I don't like is being prevented from having a job in a high-skilled job because you are a foreigner, or having to go through a lengthy processus for so. For example in France, if you want to be an engineer or work in fields that are not "in tension" like construction worker and get the work permit, you must earn 1.5 times the minimum wage salary (fair enough), having been in France for 5 years (OK, especially if you are a student), your boss must pay a tax, post an ad on Pole Emploi (unemployment services) for 3 weeks, and he must send CVs of French precising in details why they weren't chosen instead of you.

I find the latter conditions to be BS, especially if you were in the same classes as those natives and under the same conditions of work. Many foreigners do not have thus a chance to get a work experience, since the employers don't want to go those sometimes time-consuming extra miles to hire them (especially as you cannot work for them until you've got the work permit, except under special conditions).

What do you think of this? Don't you think that past a certain level of skills, chances should be equal for everyone?

Post: #135

(05-16-2015 06:50 AM)mikado Wrote:  What I don't like is being prevented from having a job in a high-skilled job because you are a foreigner, or having to go through a lengthy processus for so. For example in France, if you want to be an engineer or work in fields that are not "in tension" like construction worker and get the work permit, you must earn 1.5 times the minimum wage salary (fair enough), having been in France for 5 years (OK, especially if you are a student), your boss must pay a tax, post an ad on Pole Emploi (unemployment services) for 3 weeks, and he must send CVs of French precising in details why they weren't chosen instead of you.

I find the latter conditions to be BS, especially if you were in the same classes as those natives and under the same conditions of work. Many foreigners do not have thus a chance to get a work experience, since the employers don't want to go those sometimes time-consuming extra miles to hire them (especially as you cannot work for them until you've got the work permit, except under special conditions).

What do you think of this? Don't you think that past a certain level of skills, chances should be equal for everyone?

That depends on what you think is the responsibility of the government of a country. Should it help and assist their citizens or should it "equally" help everyone else in the world? Should the Western countries let in 2 billion people from impoverished parts of the world so that everyone can have a better life? Why not 3 billion - over 5 billion on Earth live in dirt-poor circumstances? Why stop there, as politicians in the UK and Sweden have mentioned - most of the countries are not populated and until we are back to back with immigrants there is room (97% of Sweden, UK has no people living there). Why not fly in 100.000 CFA and CAIA graduates from China and India (where most are actually passing the exams now) and let theme compete for investment banking jobs in Europe? Why not fly 1 mio. IT workers and engineers from Asia to Europe and have them a go at the jobs? I am sure the companies would be happy about it.

I can understand anyone's frustration if you are the foreigner in a country and have to jump through hoops to get what the local guy gets easier. But seriously, who does France have to serve? It's own people or EVERY HUMAN ON EARTH?

If the reverse were true and that individual you described was a highly skilled worker, then he would happy that less competition was available for the job. He would have a higher likelihood of getting hired and he could negotiate a higher salary.

Besides - after some time you usually get the citizenship in the EU and if young enough you then enjoy the privileges of the locals.

Post: #136

Quote:What I don't like is being prevented from having a job in a high-skilled job because you are a foreigner, or having to go through a lengthy processus for so. For example in France, if you want to be an engineer or work in fields that are not "in tension" like construction worker and get the work permit, you must earn 1.5 times the minimum wage salary (fair enough), having been in France for 5 years (OK, especially if you are a student), your boss must pay a tax, post an ad on Pole Emploi (unemployment services) for 3 weeks, and he must send CVs of French precising in details why they weren't chosen instead of you.

Check out my post on the visa process for the U.K. and Germany (here) as it's similar to France. Companies are very willing to bend the rules and create fake applications, fake ads for government agencies (Pole Emploi, JobCentrePlus, Agentur für Arbeit, etc.), in just about every circumstance. I work in international sales and speak German, hardly a "skilled laborer", and my work could easily be done by a native or EU native. Company after company has thrown immigration law out the window to hire me. Fake contracts, salary paid over PayPal, you name it.

The problem is that "skilled laborers" are only a small percentage of the immigrant population. For every foreign engineer brought to the EU, there are 10 unemployed Turks from old guest worker programs, there are another 10 Somalian refugees who arrive by boat, there are another 10 Romanians who enter through EU open borders, and probably another 500 nobody knows about. Not only can these people stay, but they can also bring their families along, since family unification is considered a human right under EU law.

It's a massive clusterfuck of refugee laws, economic migrant laws, and EU open border laws, working in unison.

Post: #137

Back to my initial question. Does the Anglo system offer a better pathway for a more harmonious society?

When put into perspective, America outside of a few race related incidents involving African Americans is very successful at integration. Nigerians, Indians, Chinese, Mexicans, Dominicans, there's all types of people and have all integrated well. Highly skilled and labourers. The same can be said for Canada, and to a lesser extent Australia. The chart Lizard King posted shows that the UK has also done very well in this regard.

Is a more raw and unregulated version of capitalism that is at the fulcrum of the economy in the Anglosphere best at integration? Or is there something cultural that allows the Anglo nations to absorb outsiders and integrate them, first into the labour market, and second, into the social sphere?

Anglo nations have been so good at integrating outsiders economically, that many times throughout history they had to create cultural barriers to keep them out socially. In most other parts of the world, outsiders are kept out of the economic sphere and thus never have the chance to integrate into the social one. In the Anglo world, it's almost the opposite.

As Tijane Thiam, Credit Suisse' black Ivorian CEO said "I got my education in France, however no matter how accredited I was I could not find a way forward there, in the UK I got my opportunity".

Post: #138

DD. Harmony is not the purpose of the European immigration.

Economic benefits to the EU bureaucrats and other ruling elites is the objective, and they are achieving it.

To think that "diversity" and "multi-culturalism" are the driving forces of European immigration is naive and misinformed.

Post: #139

(05-16-2015 11:56 AM)Lizard King Wrote:  DD. Harmony is not the purpose of the European immigration.

Economic benefits to the EU bureaucrats and other ruling elites is the objective, and they are achieving it.

To think that "diversity" and "multi-culturalism" are the driving forces of European immigration is naive and misinformed.

Therefore would it not be beneficial to loosen the labour laws to allow economic integration, thus the economic benefits?

No economic benefits can be realized for anyone if they're not being put to work.

Never in history has immigration been about social harmony, but rather economic prudence. I think the Anglo elites realized that hundreds of years ago, but Europe's elites are just starting to see it now.

Post: #140

(05-14-2015 11:35 PM)N°6 Wrote:  

Quote: Colonel Gaddafi warns Europe over “turning black”

But there’s method in his madness. [N°6: No, the Europeans are mad. 'Those the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad.]

The Libyan ruler, Colonel Gaddafi, has used a summit in Tripoli to warn that Europe risks "turning black" unless Libya is given £4bn a year by the EU to keep out illegal immigrants from Africa. "We should stop this illegal immigration. If we don't, Europe will become black, it will be overcome by people with different religions, it will change," he said.

He made the threat before in the summer, during a three-day visit to Italy. "We don't know what will happen, what will be the reaction of the white and Christian Europeans faced with this influx of starving and ignorant Africans," he said. "We don't know if Europe will remain an advanced and united continent or if it will be destroyed, as happened with the barbarian invasions."

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-st...ack-europe

It's always the good ones who have to go...

Every leader we knock off was keeping a lid on some crazy unstable situations that are now blowing up in our faces.

I pray we one day have a president who makes it his business to leave other countries alone and not knock off their leaders and topple their governments.

Post: #141

(05-16-2015 12:00 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

(05-16-2015 11:56 AM)Lizard King Wrote:  DD. Harmony is not the purpose of the European immigration.

Economic benefits to the EU bureaucrats and other ruling elites is the objective, and they are achieving it.

To think that "diversity" and "multi-culturalism" are the driving forces of European immigration is naive and misinformed.

Therefore would it not be beneficial to loosen the labour laws to allow economic integration, thus the economic benefits?

No economic benefits can be realized for anyone if they're not being put to work.

Never in history has immigration been about social harmony, but rather economic prudence. I think the Anglo elites realized that hundreds of years ago, but Europe's elites are just starting to see it now.

Excuse me if I have not understood you fully.

The Euro immigrants ARE integrated economically. As soon as they are here they consume(mobile phone, trainers, etc). They devour the consumerist aspects of Western culture with vigour.

That is as far as the integration goes.

Post: #142

Even putting aside economic arguments, Europeans should have the right to preserve the character of their nations.
And that would include demography

Post: #143

(05-16-2015 02:50 PM)Eskhander Wrote:  Even putting aside economic arguments, Europeans should have the right to preserve the character of their nations.
And that would include demography

To be clear, and it's too late to edit, this is not to say it must remain as pure as the driven snow (nor is there large support for such a thing in Europe) but that control must be maintained.

Post: #144

Easily the best article I've read thus far on the situation, the author spells out exactly why this is happening, why the current half baked system is doomed to failure and what approach the EU should take(sadly, they almost certainly won't):
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...rs/395321/