Post: #1

Another internet date and a new beginning to my dating life...

It was another Craigslist date, one of the rare ones I was actually excited about. She sent me 3 pictures, two of which made her look like a model, the last was a little more...humble. The texts went well and I thought I had actually scored a gold nugget from the shit mine. Sure, she was 35 and divorced but she was decent-looking so I thought something good might come from it. I texted a few times before heading down to see her. She wanted to grab drinks. I told her it was too early for me. She pleaded. I said maybe.

As I approached the downtown location we were to meet up at I gave her a call and heard her voice for the first time. The woman sounded like a witch. I wanted to turn back immediately. Oh, and she was at a bar grabbing a drink though I told her I had no interest in drinking. Red flag.

I pushed on, figuring I had already committed this far to action. I didn't want to stand somebody up. I entered the bar and turned to my left. My eyes met those of someone I vaguely recognized. She looked like the girl in the pictures, but a lot older...and uglier. There was no way that was her.

"Hey", she said. My draw dropped. There's no way that was her. Her head was much bigger, her skin paler. My eyes were immediately drawn to the bright red lipstick sloppy applied to the pale canvas that was her face. Her dark clothes blended her into the dark bar scenery. I felt terrible, like I had been duped into some Ponzi scheme. The bitch totally tricked me.

I sat down next to her at the bar with what was probably the most depressed face I had carried in some time. I didn't even want to look at the hag. We started talking and since I didn't really care about how she reacted I threw her some questions about her divorce, a topic she didn't seem to mind discussing. She had been married 10 years, with only the first 3 being any good. The marriage ended with "an affair". I was left guessing who was the perp in that one. Oh, and by the way, she had an 8-year-old daughter whom she failed to mention. Red flag #2.

Who had custody? The father. Red flag #3.

She had been unemployed for several months apparently. Her occasional smiles revealed deep crow's feet and laugh lines, clearly carved in from years of smoking. She took in long drags from her cigarette and I watched her skin die with each hit.

This was going down hill fast. We bar hopped a little bit and though my body was free to move, I felt strangely trapped. I didn't want to be rude; I couldn't just walk away. But, oh, the horror of spending another hour with this broken cow. The date struggled on for a bit longer. I snacked on fries and attempted to avoid eye contact. Conversation drifted into the morbid and obscene. No topic was off limits. I didn't care what she thought. My body language alone would have spoken volumes on my level of interest in this woman.

At the end of the afternoon we stopped at the corner where we'd eventually part ways. I looked at her and struggled to think of something to say. I didn't want to hurt her feelings but at the same time I wanted to be clear that I has no interest in seeing her ever again.

I offered a hug and afterward she took a deep look into my face. She noticed something and in a moment of spontaneous and unexpected intimacy she wiped something from my face. For a split second I thought of her as a nurturing female and forgot about her long list of shortcomings. I closed my eyes and a few notes of the Siren's song could be heard. Fortunately, reality set back in as quickly as it had left.

"Well,...it was nice meeting you...", I said. "...maybe...we'll see each other again."

"Maybe.", she said.

We were both lying and we both knew it. It occurred to me that perhaps she thought SHE was rejecting ME.

As I staring walking home I noticed a sweet number walking just up ahead. The hip to waist ratio was superb and the screen-like back to her revealing shirt was an amazing complement. I immediately started to run. I caught up to her and asked her about the flower she was holding. The conversation went nowhere. I noticed from all the metal in her face that I was likely not "edgy" enough for her. Scoring the number would have been a perfect ending to a terrible night though it was not to be. I considered being more aggressive. Nah. Fuck it.

I walked back to the station and got on the bus. On the final leg of the ride home I received a text from the woman I had just been with.

"That was un-interesting. Enjoy the sun!"

I had no idea what to think. Never had I received a closing text like that. I considered a quick reactionary text but figured I'd ignore it. I was better than that. Only hours ago, with my sister on the phone, I came up with what I thought was the perfect reply:

"You're ugly. Have a nice day!"

I hate to say it, but part of me hopes she cries herself to sleep with that. I considered sending something much more terrible. I still might.

After this date, the rules have finally changed. No more Mr. Nice Guy.

If a girl decides to trick me into a date with pictures that are not representative of her looks, I will say something to her about it and leave. If she decides to withhold important information about herself, like being a mother, I will do the same.

I will not tolerate deception and allow myself to be forced into a shit date ever again. I will shame these fatties and hags into dating honestly. I will do myself and all men online a huge favor by being assertive from the beginning.

Never again shall a Siren guide my ship into the rocks and get away with it!

Who's with me?!

Post: #2

Hilarious story, but what are you doing on Craigslist, man? There are way better, and "safer," online options for you out there. You really get the dregs on CL. Face-to-face game should be your default, with online game--to quote Gmac--there to "fill up your calendar."

Post: #3

...

Post: #4

I'm with Tuth on this one.

(09-30-2011 11:10 PM)CupCake Wrote:  We were both lying and we both knew it. It occurred to me that perhaps she thought SHE was rejecting ME.

Post: #5

(10-01-2011 08:11 AM)Neo Wrote:  It's funny when women think they are 'rejecting' men just to protect their inflated egos.

It's probably a self-defense mechanism, like the bitch shield. She's probably been rejected dozens (or more?) times, and finally she started "pre-rejecting" just to mentally cope.

Post: #6

(09-30-2011 11:10 PM)CupCake Wrote:  She looked like the girl in the pictures, but a lot older...and uglier. There was no way that was her.

"Hey", she said. My draw dropped. There's no way that was her. Her head was much bigger, her skin paler. My eyes were immediately drawn to the bright red lipstick sloppy applied to the pale canvas that was her face. Her dark clothes blended her into the dark bar scenery. I felt terrible, like I had been duped into some Ponzi scheme. The bitch totally tricked me.

That is what webcams are for man! If you are going to do the online dating "blind dates" get her ass on webcam first!

In 2011, there is no reason why men are "surprised" at a first meetup! Get her on a webcam, and you'll see what you get! You can even remain anonymous by creating a skype/ichat account for that purpose only.

If she declines a webcam session...well, don't say Mixx did not warn ya!

Make sure you have her stand up for you to by asking her what she is wearing and you want to see her color choices...

Mixx

Post: #7

Haha, I've had a couple dates with some real trolls from OKCupid. It's painful. It feels like a slow, grating death. You start to wonder if you can show your head around town ever again. The last two times it happened, I just straight up told her. One was nice, so I simply said I wasn't attracted to her. I still disliked her, because her one photo was grossly misleading.

The other was a girl who reveled in being frumpy and disheveled, and I called her out on it, and told her it was completely unacceptable. It was unacceptable to wear plain clothes, glasses, and no makeup, especially given the poor state of her skin. She would laugh obnoxiously at her own jokes. She also cursed profusely instead of being articulate, a repulsive trait, which I duly noted to her. I basically said, if you go on a date, you have an obligation to dress well and look presentable, which you haven't. We were at the beach, and she had parked at my house a few blocks away and walked with me. I continued to stay at the beach, while she walked back to my house to go home.

Funny you say she sounded like a witch, 'cause that's a line I use to transition OKC convos to a phone call. I text "Want to make sure you don't sound like Joan Rivers."

Post: #8

Mixx is right (as usual, haha). Webcamming with a girl from online, especially if she looks questionable or sounds a little reserved, will be a good way to vet her before meeting. It also helps to build comfort, I had a shy, non-drinking religious girl making out within half an hour of the first date because she probably felt a better rapport. I also skyped once to get a better look at one girl's face... and kinda glad that I did.

Post: #9

Would you post her pics? Curiosity is killing me after reading this story.

Post: #10

(10-01-2011 10:15 AM)basilransom Wrote:  Haha, I've had a couple dates with some real trolls from OKCupid. It's painful. It feels like a slow, grating death. You start to wonder if you can show your head around town ever again. The last two times it happened, I just straight up told her. One was nice, so I simply said I wasn't attracted to her. I still disliked her, because her one photo was grossly misleading.

The other was a girl who reveled in being frumpy and disheveled, and I called her out on it, and told her it was completely unacceptable. It was unacceptable to wear plain clothes, glasses, and no makeup, especially given the poor state of her skin. She would laugh obnoxiously at her own jokes. She also cursed profusely instead of being articulate, a repulsive trait, which I duly noted to her. I basically said, if you go on a date, you have an obligation to dress well and look presentable, which you haven't. We were at the beach, and she had parked at my house a few blocks away and walked with me. I continued to stay at the beach, while she walked back to my house to go home.

Funny you say she sounded like a witch, 'cause that's a line I use to transition OKC convos to a phone call. I text "Want to make sure you don't sound like Joan Rivers."

Very true. I only started fucking with the online thing--as an ancillary source of talent--recently, and even though I've had some honest dealings (girl looks like her pictures, is cool, DTF, etc.), I've encountered a couple of secret fatties and frumpy slobs myself. One girl showed up tired-as-fuck to our "date" at a local bar with onion breath, wet hair, an oversized t-shirt, and 20 lbs more than in her pictures. The kicker was when I--as a matter of procedure--offered to "grab the first round" and she ordered a beer and food! When the bill came, I made her pay for the two hot dogs she got. Bitch got hot dogs. I will say one thing: she was amazing at bar trivia.

Another time I pretty much suspected a secret fatty but forged ahead anyway. Besides being a solid 15-20 lbs overweight herself, she had terrible skin. At a point, during a lull in the conversation in the bar, I was going to make a comment about her nose piercing but decided to talk about something more interesting (though I shouldn't have tried even that hard since I was definitely not bringing my A-game). When we got into better light, I noticed the "piercing" was in fact a weird pimple or irritated mole with a shiny scab on it. I almost laughed out loud. The sad part was this girl would have been a solid 7 minus the weight and with an extended visit to the dermatologist.

With those risks in a regular online environment there's simply no reason to be using Craigslist, where the odds of getting something weird, dangerous, or nasty are 100 percent. A few years ago, before free online dating sites, this wasn't the case. In fact, I banged a petite, pale, and freckled Mexican girl off of Craigslist once upon a time. Sure, she was a little ghetto, but she loved dick. Those days, I'm afraid, are over.

I think Mixx might be onto something with this webcam thing. With the advent of Skype, you can always propose that if you have suspicions. Though, I must say, I have pretty good methods at detecting prudes, secret fatties, and skin problems from just the profiles at this point. I've been meaning to do a break-down thread on this subject.

Post: #11

Haha Tuth. Hot dogs. That's the most repulsive thing I've heard yet, considering you weren't eating. This "one of the guys" thing is going way too far.

The next two upcoming trends in online dating are mobile and video. Both have very little penetration so far, but there are signs that a few companies headed by smart people with money will crack the code within the next 3 years.

The creator of Napster and a startup superstar are working on a Chat Roulette sans headless penises:

http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/15/supyo-y...ng-parker/

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2011/09/22...d-airtime/

Post: #12

Mr.Cupcake-
It seems you are having some really bad luck with day game, why dont you hit up some bars?

Post: #13

(10-01-2011 01:54 PM)kickboxer Wrote:  Mr.Cupcake-
It seems you are having some really bad luck with day game, why dont you hit up some bars?

If I'm mistaken, he doesn't drink. All the more reason for him to go.

Post: #14

(09-30-2011 11:40 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  Hilarious story, but what are you doing on Craigslist, man? There are way better, and "safer," online options for you out there. You really get the dregs on CL.

CL was just the easiest option. The first girl I ever met off there was actually pretty cute. I've always been hoping that I'll land another one but no such luck. I've only managed to get 2 fuckable girls off that site. It's definitely not worth the effort anymore.

I think I might give up online dating for good. There's a site that's local-only and I posted an ad for a bit. I couldn't get myself to contact anyone as reading peoples' ads was just plain painful. Everyone gives off a narcissistic poseur vibe on there.

Online ads seem to be nothing but people putting lipstick on their pigs. You can't trust much you read. It's amazing how much more you'll learn about someone just by hearing their voice or talking to them for a few minutes. I think real life encounters would be a much better ROI.

(10-01-2011 11:33 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  Would you post her pics? Curiosity is killing me after reading this story.

I couldn't do that. Wouldn't feel right.

(10-01-2011 01:54 PM)kickboxer Wrote:  It seems you are having some really bad luck with day game, why dont you hit up some bars?

Honestly, I just don't like the atmosphere of most bars or clubs. I'm not much of a drinker and I find the people in these places tend to be pretty douchey. Lot of ugly, drunk bitches too. I think I need to step up the college campus game. I've posted about how I feel kinda weird trolling around those places when I'm not in school myself, but I guess I'm gonna just have to get over it. I will start pushing myself to get more into the nightlife though.

Post: #15

"We were both lying and we both knew it. It occurred to me that perhaps she thought SHE was rejecting ME."

Dr. Leo Marvin: [pause] I see. So, what you're saying is that even though you are an almost-paralyzed, multiphobic personality who is in a constant state of panic, your wife did not leave you, you left her because she... liked Neil Diamond?

Bob: Are you saying that maybe I didn't leave my ex-wife, but maybe she left me? For the first time I feel like there's hope!

Post: #16

Upon meeting I would have just said 'you dont look anything like your pics. Bye' and then just walked.

Why be polite and reward deception?

Post: #17

Quote:I didn't want to be rude; I couldn't just walk away.

I know the feeling. I'm a "nice guy" be trade so I don't like being mean to people, but when the girl purposefully misrespresents who she is (in other words, LYING), then I believe you should have carte blanche to do whatever you want with your time. You don't owe liars anything. These women are taking advantage of the fact that nice guys will still give them a social interaction in spite of their obvious fraud.

I had one experience like this about 10 years ago and swore off online dating forever. I knew it was a place where low-quality, anti-social girls to troll for dates. I have no regrets!

Quote:This "one of the guys" thing is going way too far.

Eventually they just become a guy. Example: Denmark.

Post: #18

(10-02-2011 09:39 AM)Roosh Wrote:  I had one experience like this about 10 years ago and swore off online dating forever. I knew it was a place where low-quality, anti-social girls to troll for dates. I have no regrets!

What I think this makes me realize is that by participating in this type of dating I'm showing that I too am an anti-social and low-quality male. How many of these guys with quality women met theirs online? Hardly any if I had to guess.

The online dating scene is anti-social and lazy. I knew it, but I stuck with it because I wasn't willing to put work into meeting girls. I think it's all come together for me.

Post: #19

(10-02-2011 10:47 AM)CupCake Wrote:  

(10-02-2011 09:39 AM)Roosh Wrote:  I had one experience like this about 10 years ago and swore off online dating forever. I knew it was a place where low-quality, anti-social girls to troll for dates. I have no regrets!

What I think this makes me realize is that by participating in this type of dating I'm showing that I too am an anti-social and low-quality male. How many of these guys with quality women met theirs online? Hardly any if I had to guess.

The online dating scene is anti-social and lazy. I knew it, but I stuck with it because I wasn't willing to put work into meeting girls. I think it's all come together for me.

Online dating is not a replacement for old school pounding the pavement.

Like I said before, the same girl who won't return a message online would give you her number in real life easily. I think they don't even want to meet people there. I've tested this a dozen times.

Turn the computer off and get to basics. Think of it as playing a video game. Outcome doesn't matter. You could get run over a thousand times
on the computer but when it happens on the street its a different story.

What part of the country do you live in Cupcake?

Post: #20

(10-02-2011 10:47 AM)CupCake Wrote:  

(10-02-2011 09:39 AM)Roosh Wrote:  I had one experience like this about 10 years ago and swore off online dating forever. I knew it was a place where low-quality, anti-social girls to troll for dates. I have no regrets!

What I think this makes me realize is that by participating in this type of dating I'm showing that I too am an anti-social and low-quality male. How many of these guys with quality women met theirs online? Hardly any if I had to guess.

The online dating scene is anti-social and lazy. I knew it, but I stuck with it because I wasn't willing to put work into meeting girls. I think it's all come together for me.

I think that's generalizing a bit. There are a lot more reasons for people to use online dating than simply "anti-social and lazy."

Post: #21

"Honestly, I just don't like the atmosphere of most bars or clubs. I'm not much of a drinker and I find the people in these places tend to be pretty douchey."

OK, let's help a brother out - where else can one run "night game" besides bars and clubs?

As I see it, the essence of night game is that people (i.e. women) are open to meeting new partners and being gamed. Bars and clubs are the logistically simplest way to meet new people who are open to romantic overtures and who are socially lubricated by alcohol. (Day game is for when women aren't open to being escalated at the time; women are always open to meeting attractive men but their proclivity to advance the game may not be in play.)

-If you have any honest-to-God pubs in your area (not fake Irish pubs with people drunk off their asses, but real pubs) they are much better places for conversation and thus interesting people, while keeping the night-game vibe.

-When I had an uber-corprorate job we had a lot of company mixers and stuff like this, which provided booze and the NG environment but people were friendlier than at an anonymous bar, drinking but not drunk, and we could get social proof from our coworkers.

-I also used to go to a seminar series with my church group that was held at a bar. The speaker would talk for an hour, and then it would turn into a meat market, and we were all socially proofed to each other by virtue of being at the event. (If someone thinks they shouldn't/can't game religious girls, you need to read more field reports.)

-I'm not really a bar/club guy myself, but if I'm out I find that you can run some good pickup at the fourth-meal food stops like pizza cafes and pastry shops. It's better-lit and chicks don't have guys pawing all over them so the bitch shields can be lower.

-If you go out for dinner, you can also catch some good prospects coming in as the dinner crowd swaps out for the evening-drinks crowd. Like Roosh says, the guys show up to bars later than the girls, so you might as well have them all to yourself before everybody gets shitfaced anyway.

Post: #22

Online dating gets a lot of hate on these forums. Poor Gmac has to fight an uphill battle.

Post: #23

"What I think this makes me realize is that by participating in this type of dating I'm showing that I too am an anti-social and low-quality male. How many of these guys with quality women met theirs online? Hardly any if I had to guess."

I think online dating had a sweet spot, which has passed in time. In the beginning you had to be a freak to do online dating, it was a sign you were beyond hope. Then you weren't a freak but being on the site meant you were really serious about finding a partner. Now everybody is on it, and so the quality and seriousness have both taken a huge nosedive. Plus there's women who aren't serious at all and just want the attention. I'm told half of Manhattan is on OKCupid. It's just like the regular scene now. And chicks are illogical about double standards - they'll say a guy who's online must be a loser, while they are online fielding messages from those guys.

I have some friends who have met good long-term partners via online dating, but it's a lot of work for little reward, and the dry spells can be long indeed.

You can't even get a response to your approach like IRL. You have to have a superlative level of (two-dimensional, on-paper) attractiveness to get any kind of consistent response. Read The Private Man's blog for how hard it is.

Two of my coworkers dated online for 1-2 years, neither got a girlfriend, but leveraged the skills they honed to date women from real life (including one guy who's dating a chick I introduced him to). You're still way better off spending that time gaming - it's like 2-10 hours a week you never get back. Get out and approach.

Post: #24

(10-02-2011 11:15 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Online dating gets a lot of hate on these forums. Poor Gmac has to fight an uphill battle.

Even though Gmac is on time with it I'm sure he knows its no replacement for live action.
I do it. It entertains me but, when I NEED to get laid it's going to come down to the streets.
Cupcake, Have you tried the big chain bookstores?

Post: #25

(10-02-2011 11:13 AM)BadgerHut Wrote:  As I see it, the essence of night game is that people (i.e. women) are open to meeting new partners and being gamed. Bars and clubs are the logistically simplest way to meet new people who are open to romantic overtures and who are socially lubricated by alcohol.

I could see this being true if say, you lived in a suburb where most people are married with kids, and the local pub is an oasis for singles. But if you live in an area that is young and single, the people in bars and clubs are no more available than those you'll meet via daygame. For every girl in a relationship who goes out less, you have a girl who goes out less despite being single. Plus the more a girl goes out, the worse her character. Being exposed to foreign thirsty dudes in a boozy atmosphere corrodes a woman's character over time, at least in America.

The day and night scenes each have their own pros and cons. Almost all girls go out, but not at the same rate. So the balance of types of girls changes from one scene to the next.

You know the girls complaining about how "there are no good men left?" These are consistently the worst women you will meet; they are good for nothing but a fuck. The girls I've known who are sweet, cute and generally of good character spend their prime years in committed relationships. When they are single, they genuinely seek a relationship. These girls value emotional intimacy and commitment more than novelty, thrill and validation, and it's quite evident. Nightlife attracts more of the latter, thrill-seeking types, whereas it's easier to find the former during the day.

Another thing about online dating: You go out with a girl, you have a great time. You both seemed to truly enjoy yourselves. In reality, there may have been some part that made her uncomfortable, such as you pushing for sex. You made sure to end the date on a good note.

But she heads home and sees the long list of suitors begging her for attention. Suddenly, your little flaw becomes a huge deal-breaker, because among those tens or hundreds of suitors, there must be *someone* better. Why should she put up with your flaw, when she can find someone without it? This dynamic isn't unique to online dating, but it is inherent and inescapable when dating attractive women online.

Parenthetically, the flaw could be as simple as you wanting her to drive to you, upon which I insist for every single date. That whit of noncompliance eliminates you from the competition. It is like a job interview where there are so many candidates, that the employer starts eliminating people for the most trivial reasons. Because they can.

I don't have these girls' brains wiretapped, but I'm sure this has happened to me several times with online dating.