Post: #1

So Ive been looking for advice on updating my resume and Im startled at how many people are admitting to/justifying lying on their resume. I understand why they do it as some expectations from potential employers are too high (Ive heard some really funny stories like 5 yrs experience needed for a 2yr old program).

I wouldnt dare lie on any applications as I am certain I would get caught, but I can see extreme career growth potential if in a year from now I happen to be buddies with the HR guy at a reputable company or I work at a company where the policy is not to disclose any information other than verifying employment and dates of employment and I embellish my resume. Assuming Im not applying to jobs I cannot do and am in no way qualified for of course.

If you are applying to jobs you know your capable of doing it seems to be a victimless crime especially now that many degrees are all but useless. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Post: #2

You can stretch the truth so well w/ the right words it's not really worth the risk to lie.

Post: #3

(01-22-2012 10:38 PM)defguy Wrote:  So Ive been looking for advice on updating my resume and Im startled at how many people are admitting to/justifying lying on their resume. I understand why they do it as some expectations from potential employers are too high (Ive heard some really funny stories like 5 yrs experience needed for a 2yr old program).

I wouldnt dare lie on any applications as I am certain I would get caught, but I can see extreme career growth potential if in a year from now I happen to be buddies with the HR guy at a reputable company or I work at a company where the policy is not to disclose any information other than verifying employment and dates of employment and I embellish my resume. Assuming Im not applying to jobs I cannot do and am in no way qualified for of course.

If you are applying to jobs you know your capable of doing it seems to be a victimless crime especially now that many degrees are all but useless. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Dumbest. Idea. Ever.

Small world, people talk and karma is a bitch. I've seen a guy at B-School embellish their shit and he went from offers at some of the best firms in the world to jobless and nobody would talk to him.

Post: #4

(01-22-2012 10:38 PM)defguy Wrote:  So Ive been looking for advice on updating my resume and Im startled at how many people are admitting to/justifying lying on their resume. I understand why they do it as some expectations from potential employers are too high (Ive heard some really funny stories like 5 yrs experience needed for a 2yr old program).

I wouldnt dare lie on any applications as I am certain I would get caught, but I can see extreme career growth potential if in a year from now I happen to be buddies with the HR guy at a reputable company or I work at a company where the policy is not to disclose any information other than verifying employment and dates of employment and I embellish my resume. Assuming Im not applying to jobs I cannot do and am in no way qualified for of course.

If you are applying to jobs you know your capable of doing it seems to be a victimless crime especially now that many degrees are all but useless. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Most successful people lie on their resume. I actually spoke with a judge about this not too long ago. He was the youngest judge I ever met in my life (early 30s) and works in family law court. He lied on his resume.

Most HR departments that conduct background checks only go so far. They'll confirm whether you've actually worked somewhere, look at tax records to see if you've lived in a state during a particular year, and ask your employer about your work behavior and whether they would rehire you.

Aside from that, you can generally lie about your position and even the dates of employment. This even works with federal government agencies.


Just don't get carried away. Don't mention something so extraordinary that it gets talked about around the office or brought up down the road should you get promoted, etc (your resume will get looked at again). Keep it simple, but you can embellish and even fabricate to present yourself in a better light. Just don't overdo it and use your best judgment. Hope this helps.

Post: #5

I've actually written a post on how to build a boss awesome resume.

And don't lie on your resume.

If you put something on your resume that you can't do, eventually they will find out.

Post: #6

(01-22-2012 10:58 PM)Alpha Wrote:  I've actually written a post on how to build a boss awesome resume.

And don't lie on your resume.

If you put something on your resume that you can't do, eventually they will find out.

I saw your link. I agree with your resume length recommendation, but only for someone just starting out (entry-level, college grad, etc). For someone who has career experience (at least mid-level), going over a page is fine.

Formatting and detail can highlight your technical ability, which is a good thing if the job you are seeking calls for that.

As far as lying on your resume, I want to be more clear about that.

Definitely don't say you worked somewhere you've never worked, or attended a school you never attended, or possess a qualification you do not have. These type of lies can become easily discovered.

In fact, Notre Dame recently fired a football coach they had just hired who lied about possessing a master's degree during his entire coaching career which spanned decades. It's never too late to get fired.

However, there are people who have lied about these things and have yet to be detected. Some of them have had their careers for decades.

Also, you want your resume to highlight your successes (performance-related), not a mere listing of your tasks at each job; here is where the lying comes in.

By all means, exaggerate, embellish (I hate to use the word "lie") these successes. If you worked in sales and your efforts led to a 13% increase in productivity, increase that 33% or even higher, etc. Hell, even if you didn't increase productivity, say you did.

At the end of the day, it's all about looking better than the next man.

Just don't bite more than you can chew and you'll be fine. I trust most of you understand what that means and know what you have to do.

Post: #7

(01-22-2012 11:10 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  I saw your link. I agree with your resume length recommendation, but only for someone just starting out (entry-level, college grad, etc). For someone who has career experience (at least mid-level), going over a page is fine.

That was covered in depth in the comments. I agree, if you actually have worthwhile content to fill more than one page with, go over by half a page or a page. But Don't fluff. Quality over Quantity.

(01-22-2012 11:10 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Formatting and detail can highlight your technical ability, which is a good thing if the job you are seeking calls for that.

Flowery borders will not help you get a job. Different than formatting with headings, bold, italics, etc.

(01-22-2012 11:10 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Definitely don't say you worked somewhere you've never worked, or attended a school you never attended, or possess a qualification you do not have. These type of lies can become easily discovered.

This is exactly what I meant when I said don't lie. If you put that you speak Portuguese to be impressive, but you can only ask for the bathrooms and you know damn well you don't really speak Portuguese, just know that one day there will be a Portuguese customer, and everyone will watch you not translate.

(01-22-2012 11:10 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Also, you want your resume to highlight your successes (performance-related), not a mere listing of your tasks at each job; here is where the lying comes in.

By all means, exaggerate, embellish (I hate to use the word "lie") these successes. If you worked in sales and your efforts led to a 13% increase in productivity, increase that 33% or even higher, etc. Hell, even if you didn't increase productivity, say you did.

At the end of the day, it's all about looking better than the next man.

Just don't bite more than you can chew and you'll be fine. I trust most of you understand what that means and know what you have to do.

This is solid.

Post: #8

(01-22-2012 11:20 PM)Alpha Wrote:  [quote='Hencredible Casanova' pid='147620' dateline='1327291813']Definitely don't say you worked somewhere you've never worked, or attended a school you never attended, or possess a qualification you do not have. These type of lies can become easily discovered.

(01-22-2012 11:20 PM)Alpha Wrote:  This is exactly what I meant when I said don't lie. If you put that you speak Portuguese to be impressive, but you can only ask for the bathrooms and you know damn well you don't really speak Portuguese, just know that one day there will be a Portuguese customer, and everyone will watch you not translate.

This is crucial. I've actually been called out on my language knowledge in a couple of interviews, Spanish and Portuguese. With Portuguese, which I can speak at a basic conversational level, I once interviewed for a job where the interviewer actually worked as a translator in college. She was from France and spoke five languages. She called me out on Portuguese. I told her "Eu falo Portugues mas eu preciso para a practica." Luckily, just that alone convinced her I knew my shit and she didn't go any further. It could have gotten ugly. Since that experience, I've taken the additional step of stating the level of proficiency I have in each language.

Again, to everyone reading this, just don't bite off more than you can chew. If you're going to exaggerate, lie, or embellish, be sure you can "own" that detail if you're ever called out on it.

Post: #9

I do appreciate the input so far. Its common sense but I should clarify when referring to embellishing or lying on your resume I mean something you are capable of doing not some college graduate trying to become the next CEO of Walmart. I dont want newbs bashing each other on this forum over misunderstandings in communication.

For example a loan underwriter for company XYZ could dramatically improve his life and income saying he was a loan officer at company XYZ in his resume when applying to other companies. But that would only work if 1) Your close buddies with the HR guy at XYZ and he will lie for you or 2) Company XYZ will verify you worked there but not give any information other than this such as salary or job title.

If you get the job saying you were a loan officer and you cant do what a loan officer does then youll get fired within 2 weeks.

Post: #10

(01-22-2012 11:27 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(01-22-2012 11:20 PM)Alpha Wrote:  

(01-22-2012 11:10 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Definitely don't say you worked somewhere you've never worked, or attended a school you never attended, or possess a qualification you do not have. These type of lies can become easily discovered.

This is exactly what I meant when I said don't lie. If you put that you speak Portuguese to be impressive, but you can only ask for the bathrooms and you know damn well you don't really speak Portuguese, just know that one day there will be a Portuguese customer, and everyone will watch you not translate.

This is crucial. I've actually been called out on my language knowledge in a couple of interviews, Spanish and Portuguese. With Portuguese, which I can speak at a basic conversational level, I once interviewed for a job where the interviewer actually worked as a translator in college. She was from France and spoke five languages. She called me out on Portuguese. I told her "Eu falo Portugues mas eu preciso para a practica." Luckily, just that alone convinced her I knew my shit and she didn't go any further. It could have gotten ugly. Since that experience, I've taken the additional step of stating the level of proficiency I have in each language.

Again, to everyone reading this, just don't bite off more than you can chew. If you're going to exaggerate, lie, or embellish, be sure you can "own" that detail if you're ever called out on it.

I always put Spanish fluency, and at the interview for my current job, the lady had a masters in spanish. We spoke for a little bit in Spanish and she asked if I was fluent, I said I was, she asked a couple of questions relating to the business and I told her, in English,

"Fluency is relative. I can speak endlessly on a wide variety of topics. [This industry] is not one of those. I don't know the words,"

My job has a lot of industry-specific words in English, words you'd never use in conversation - I wouldn't be able to do my job in Spanish until I learned the terminology.

Post: #11

(01-22-2012 11:34 PM)defguy Wrote:  I do appreciate your input so far. Its common sense but I should clarify when referring to embellishing or lying on your resume I mean something you are capable of doing not some college graduate trying to become the next CEO of Walmart. I dont want newbs bashing each other on this forum over misunderstandings in communication.

For example a loan underwriter for company XYZ could dramatically improve his life and income saying he was a loan officer at company XYZ in his resume when applying to other companies. But that would only work if 1) Your close buddies with the HR guy at XYZ and he will lie for you or 2) Company XYZ t will verify you worked there but not give any information other than this such as salary or job title.

If you cant do what a loan officer does then youll get fired within 2 weeks.

Exactly. You can also do this with respect to an associate position by changing it to an analyst one, controlling for the same conditions defguy outlined.

Also, to be even more clear, you are likely applying to jobs that you are confident you can pull off, and that don't even require skills you've relied on in previous positions, so you may not have to worry about the skills in a prior job that you embellished on your resume since you will likely lose or need to polish those skills the longer you've worked in a job that doesn't utilize them.

One more important point, also, is to make sure your cover letter and experience has a lot of the keywords that are in the job description of the position you are applying to. Most HR staff receive dozens upon dozens of resumes all the time, especially the ones at big companies. They often don't even read the resumes and filter them through a computer software that "scores" the resumes based on how close the information in them match the keywords in the job description. This is especially true wrt federal government jobs.

Post: #12

Simply put, the stuff you should exaggerate is the kind of stuff that, at best, makes a good first impression, NOT a lasting impression.

Like I said, fudging your level of success within a particular job. No one is going to come up to you and say to you, months after you've been hired, hey so you increased sales at the one place you worked at three years ago by 33%. How'd you do it? No one does that.

However, the stuff that makes a lasting impression (where you went to school and when you graduated/your degreee, where you lived, where you're from, what qualifications you have) will get brought up. That's stuff you should NOT make up.

Post: #13

When people lie on their resume, it's usually lying about credentials or working longer at an employer that they actually have, or flat out lying about being fired.


The reason is simple. Today people can get away with it:

1. Nowadays a criminal background check is what en employer runs, unless you are a lawyer or doctor, or working for a top tier consulting company, your credentials (that you say you have) do not get verified. This is especially true when you are a contract employee on a short 6 month assignment. 90% of the time, drug/background screening with a couple of references are checked.

2. If you got fired from a company, when a new employer calls to check, all they will get is dates of employment and salary - THEY CANNOT SAY YOU WERE FIRED!

3. If you do actually know what you're doing, but it's just credential you lied about, when you hop on board and show your skills, it won't matter.


Don't flat out lie on your resume. It's embarrassing.


Mixx

Post: #14

Your right on point MIXX but it turns out many companies CAN and DO say you were fired. A lot depends on the company and their policy towards disclosing information to other companies so those who want to lie on their resume should stop by HR of their current or former employment to find out what they can and cannot get away with on their resume.

Is there any type of background check that allows them to see what your past job titles have been? Ive heard prospective employers can see all the companies youve worked for and dates of employment if they require your SSN in your job application.

If I am wrong someone please correct me on this: From my understanding, prospective employers can only verify your credentials through your former employer by calling their HR department or through whatever references you give them.

Post: #15

My understanding is that companies cannot say you were fired, they open themselves up for a lawsuit big-time. I've had sex with 2 HR managers, and this is just bedside post-sex small talk.

They can get your job tittle by merely calling the company to verify employment. The 3 things all companies will give are 1} dates of employment 2} Your job tittle and 3} Your salary/wages.

The company would be walking a very thin legal line if they prevent you from getting another job because they said you were fired to a new employer. That would have to be the dumbest HR person I have ever met.


Mixx

Post: #16

Mixx is right.

I have a few friends who are managers (no sex) and they have given me the scoop on hiring and firing. It's illegal for the companies to say they fired you. They can word it in a way where your departure may look suspicious but they CANNOT say they fired you.
In North America (which I assume we are talking about since we used the term 'resume' and not 'CV'), those are grounds for a lawsuit.

Post: #17

Just get yourself an interview BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY! A lot of people "lie" or stretch things on the resume. Don't be nieve and think other wise. I don't know how it is in the USA but here it is common practice, you BS to get an interview then bust your balls to shore up your loose ends for the interview and job. If you bullshit a technical skill you are damn sure you will have to teach yourself the skill in a short time to be competent if required to use it. In the end... Get the job. You don't get ahead playing nice.

Post: #18

Employers are allowed to say they fired you. I have looked into this in the past to help out a friend. It's perfectly legal for employers to say you were fired if asked during a background check.

http://jobsearch.about.com/od/background...cansay.htm

Post: #19

Both Casanova and MiXX are right, it all depends on the company. They CAN say they fired you but quite a few bigger companies choose not to in order to avoid potential lawsuits. The trick is to find out what your employer will not disclose and use that to your advantage.

@ Moma we are talking about the US but I am curious on how things are different in other countries as well

I wish more people participated in the poll, still the numbers are what I thought they would be. A LOT of people lie on their resume. I completely understand it though Kosko has it right, "You dont get ahead playing nice."

Post: #20

defguy - One of my lizards who is from the UK said that they lie more here (Canada Toronto). I've found there is a lot more B.S here in everything. Britain likes to play more by the book and I am not sure how the lying works in Britain exactly (info was so difficult to extract there, I didn't know enough to blag properly).

In North America, the culture is more about team work and all that, than individual skill set (unless one gets into really specialised fields etc).

Thus, I've spoken to HR people and lying on the resume is definitely the thing here. Fail to do so and get left in the dust.

It's the same thing with meeting and a lizard and telling her the total truth.

You'll find yourself isolated on a beach somewhere, flogging your dolphin to the mating calls of an ovulating killer whale.

Post: #21

(01-23-2012 01:36 PM)Moma Wrote:  It's the same thing with meeting and a lizard and telling her the total truth.

You'll find yourself isolated on a beach somewhere, flogging your dolphin to the mating calls of an ovulating killer whale.

Sheer Poetry

Post: #22

I can say that the banks that I worked at all had MiXX's policy. They could not say that you were fired because it opened them up to liability. Some could not even give a recomendation for the same reason.

Post: #23

Employers have to protect their asses. I hear that this is the same with academic records? I was always told Employers could snoop at my GPA but that is a private sealed piece of info that's hard to get at, I believe also this is bullshit. As only education administrators have access to your grade info. If this is indeed true then people with poor(er) GPA's can easily hustle there way in. I have easily beat out grad students in interviews since I am simply more ruthless and sharp on what they require of me. I don't hang my hat on a grade number, I don't even bring it up I talk the gab nicely they automatically assume I know what they fuk I am talking about/doing.

Get the interview, get the job. Bust your ass during probation and be nice to your superiors to pick up clues on how to work your tasks better. I am still at a entry-level status tho so I am talking from being greasy outta school and nailing down legit jobs. I lie about my professional affiliations, class work, and technical skills. I've never gotten a job in which I didn't stretch something on the resume.

Lol I guess it must be a Canadian thing. Its hard competing with these immigrants (god bless em) that have STACKED resumes. Then you have connects which in large the majority of jobs in Canada are landed! Canada is not that big, evreybody knows somebody a lot of jobs are landed this way. So you have no choice but to get greasy on the resume to at least show your leagues ahead of the "recommended" candidates, or over qualified immigrant.

Post: #24

(01-23-2012 05:48 PM)kosko Wrote:  Employers have to protect their asses. I hear that this is the same with academic records? I was always told Employers could snoop at my GPA but that is a private sealed piece of info that's hard to get at, I believe also this is bullshit. As only education administrators have access to your grade info. If this is indeed true then people with poor(er) GPA's can easily hustle there way in. I have easily beat out grad students in interviews since I am simply more ruthless and sharp on what they require of me. I don't hang my hat on a grade number, I don't even bring it up I talk the gab nicely they automatically assume I know what they fuk I am talking about/doing.

As far as university records go (at least in the US) the law states that a University can ONLY divulge if/when you attended a school, whether you got a degree, and what the degree was in, unless you EXPLICITLY authorize the university to give out more information to an employer.

If you ever found out that a potential employer was able to get your transcripts/GPA from a university WITHOUT your permission, congratulations! You have a great lawsuit on your hands.

Post: #25

Embellish or lie strategically so you don't get caught. The author of Dress For Success had interesting stories. He used his contacts to acquire and verify old resumes of top corporate managers. But he had to shitcan the project because so many lied.

One guy had an employment gap from being in prison. So he wrote to U.S. companies in Iran after the fall of the Shah. When he found a company where nobody replied, he said he worked there and increased profits by 33%.

Don't lie indiscriminately. Have a good reason for lying (to cover an employment gap or include an essential qualification). Lie as little as possible, and not about things that can be easily checked (like degrees or previous employers).