Post: #101

(03-29-2019 01:03 PM)Buddydowrongright2 Wrote:  I’m not religious - too much German philosophy at a young age - but Roosh your path reminds me a lot of Saint Augustine. If you haven’t read him, I give his work Confessions a very strong recommend.

Augustine, yes. But I would yet add Apophthegmata Patrum, Desert Fathers Sayings , since Roosh has chosen Eastern Christianity, one that delves into paradoxes much more than the Western brethren. Black pill certainly can be experienced as a paradox.

Post: #102

(03-29-2019 04:48 PM)Matsufubu Wrote:  

(03-29-2019 04:29 PM)christpuncher Wrote:  Where do I go from here? Genuine question to you enlightened... I have no clue. Should I read the Bible?

Yes. Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Revelation to start with.

Your eyes will open.

Reading the bible is very interesting. I took to this pretty well, while I can be undisciplined with other aspects. I think it is because I like it. Ultimately you will want to read the parts you like, along with trying to balance out which parts are critical to know.

When I started, I was recommend by a Christian friend about 1 year ago to begin with the gospel (Matt, Mark, Luke, John) and New Testament (eg. Romans, Timothy). I liked the approach where I would rotate from a gospel to another book back and forth to keep it fresh. Ultimately, the gospels re tell the same story, with different parts. In my mind, once you read the 4 gospels than you kind of have your ticket to read other books based on interest, or what pulls you, but you have the Jesus Part down.

Gospel:
The gospel will help you to understand the story of Jesus Christ as told in the bible, vs. how he is portrayed by the culture at large. Personally, I found it made an impression on my how much time Jesus spent healing people. Also, he is always at odds with the Pharisees. This differed from the mainstream cultural concept that he just told us to love one another, he did say that, but he was far more intense.

These gospels contain parables which can be incredibly profound and beautiful. These are usually highlighted because they are direct quotes from Jesus. I like to think that these parables can help a spiritual idea enter into you. He must have taught in this way for a reason, also parables are very fascinating for those of us on this site who like to try and get our heads around things. (Roosh has a video on Gospel of Thomas with some analysis - in this case girl related)

New Testament:
New Testament is helpful to understand what it means to be a Christian. They address lots of practical elements of things happening in the church and what is right and wrong.

Old Testament:
Old Testament is fascinating but it can be very difficult without understanding the Jewish Culture. To me I would start with Genesis, as this is the most foundational book.

I do agree that in Old Testament, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes are very popular and wise books. Many use proverbs to guide their prayer.
Sirach is an apocryphal book that I particularly like, its got an edgy neo-masculinity vibe, but is not included in all bibles.

Revelation:
To me revelation while part of the New Testament is almost its own thing. The first part is to understand the beginning before you understand the end. It is very difficult to understand so I just flip on a youtube video when I want to learn about the end of the world. But its on the list.


<<< Just some of my thoughts as I work through these books, I am not an authority on this, just someone who is doing this now >>>

Post: #103

(03-29-2019 01:03 PM)Buddydowrongright2 Wrote:  I’m not religious - too much German philosophy at a young age - but Roosh your path reminds me a lot of Saint Augustine. If you haven’t read him, I give his work Confessions a very strong recommend.

Reminded me a bit of Built to Fade's path also, which he outlined a little while back in one of his last posts here [cut short for the sake of brevity]:

(12-28-2018 02:38 AM)Built to Fade Wrote:  I used to be black pilled in the past due to constant browsing on the chan's and apocalyptic themed discussion boards. I realised that it's futile and vain to think about negativity for more than a moment as it can strike your mind and overtake your life if you're off your guard for too long.

Quote:Ecclesiastes 1:13 & 17-18 (KJV)
13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.
17 And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.
18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

I think the black pill is one of the most insidious honey traps out there. It's an attempt by "the god of this world" to induce hopelessness in people so that they desire to give up and risk the second death.

(12-27-2018 11:40 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  I'm gradually becoming "black blanketed." I find as I get older, the world gets darker. Not because of any cliched "end times" scenario I imagine, but because all things lose their luster after a while. It's as if someone has thrown a dark blanket over your worldview.

[...]

One of the unconscious benefits of youth is that when most people are older than you are, you assume those people are somewhat competent and have acquired a certain wisdom that comes with age. But as you actually age, you start to realize most people your age never really gained much wisdom or insight. They're the same screw-ups you knew in middle school, only fatter and balder.

As such, relationships between people change. You no longer pile into the car with your friends and act wild. Everybody's too reserved. Everybody has something to lose. Everyone is on guard to a much greater degree.

[...]

Hence, my new term "The Black Blanket," which is a bit too awkward to coin as a phrase, but it's all I can come up with tonight.

How about "The Unseen Hand"? When negativity enters a person's mind, "The Unseen Hand" caresses their heart. When a person loses all hope, "The Unseen Hand" crushes their heart.

The unseen hand of an agent of "the god of this world".
_______________________________________________

(12-28-2018 12:15 AM)scorpion Wrote:  tl;dr God is the only actual escape from the black pill that is what we know as reality. Everything else is denial, distraction, or despair.

(12-07-2018 01:39 PM)velkrum Wrote:  The next [last?] Pill...

... is the White Pill.


It's when one seeks for the unadulterated truth in as many things in life as possible. It requires unwavering faith to maintain this path.

Post: #104

(03-29-2019 11:46 PM)Avoy Wrote:  [...] Queue the SJW meltdown on the last video: "Women look up to men as men look up to God." Interesting take on sharing your struggles with loved ones or women in general. The advice is sound, but the release valve is not really discussed for men. A silent prayer every morning isn't going to cut it for most when life has you feeling overwhelmed.

I was just reading through the YouTube comments on this video and this particular comment hit home for me. The beginning points you may have heard before. The last point is one that no one talks about.

Quote:This is very true. The bible says man was created according to the glory of God and woman was created according to the glory of man. Man is above the woman. The man/woman relationship is more akin to that of parent/child. It is a very sad day when a man first learns this cold, hard fact because he learns that it is truly a lonely world for him with no one to confide in.

Some may think God is the answer, pill, or next logical step. Others turn to philosophy or valued friends. I don't know the answer. But I do know talking to your girl or to people in general will always backfire and change their view of you in their eyes (it's probably happening right now). I think many guys look to starting a family to fill this void, but if you're the leader of the family and can't fallback on or show your vulnerabilities to someone you're close with than the void will continue to exist and perhaps worsen with more responsibilities.

And to those who say "submit to God" or "love" is the answer... what does that even mean in this context? Finding peace and contentment in ones own life and staying single seems like the easier path. Making a life-long commitment to being a parent to grown woman (you wife) doesn't appeal to me at the present moment.

Post: #105

I'd been dropping some detailed experience in Aurini's Discord on how to approach God, and about the Stages of the Interior Life, so the timing of this is interesting.

(03-29-2019 07:42 PM)KMK Wrote:  The claim that one can receive guidance from god in exchange for prayer, meditation, regular attendance of mass and sacraments, etc is BS. Speaking from experience.

Because that's not how it works, though many people mistakenly think it does. Note that the Pharisees did all of that, and they did not know The Father.

The only sacrifice he wants from you is a Contrite and Humble Heart. Without that, nothing will work, though you can affect what Aurini has mentioned recently as Simulation: the appearance of Holiness. The Spiritual Theologist Jordan Aumann labels Simulation as one of the signs of being a 'Demonic' spirit.

I've had a Catholic Stalker who is, effectively, a Pharisee, and has taken it upon himself to 'save' me: i.e. disturb my holy peace and attempt to make me distrust in God, thereby serving the desires of the Adversary. It usually involves Schismatic ideas: the Church is Satanic, communion in the hand is unholy, you don't have to obey Priests, etc. The idea is to make you mistrust the Church so you separate yourself from the Body of Christ.

He has no idea that he isn't a Good Catholic Man: "Don't tell me about humility! I'm humble! If there's one thing I can't stand..." [eye twitches, veins pop] ...it's being told something I already know!"

I was being hilariously-virtuous, thinking it would please God to show such heroic-patience with someone so incredibly-wearing. The Priests told me "No." Nuns from two different orders told me, "No." I showed such patience under fire that it took finally-hearing God's voice to tell me, "Bosch, no."

---

Note that what Roosh is experiencing is genuine. What he is describing are the usual understandings that are recorded when someone passes through the First Conversion: he's now walking in the Beginning Stage of the Interior Life. Needing to ask for help, him not coming where he's not wanted, understanding his presence in your life, and even the sensing of a door being opened.

I would suggest to anyone who doesn't know God to think of it the other way: He's quietly-knocking on your door, but won't enter to where He isn't invited. So, unlock and open it. This is traditionally-depicted as him knocking at a door with the absence of a handle on his side.



Be prepared: the Saints write it's not unusual to be hit with great physical trials during this stage. I went almost fully-deaf last June and now walk with a cane. Father Ripperger says "Be prepared for him to make your life a living hell for a while." He wants to know if you'll abandon him.

Also, heed this warning: God will trial you and elevate you, but only take you as far in the interior life as you are prepared to give him. It's possible to burn off your imperfections in this life: God will attempt to strip you of your attachments but if you cling to them, he'll eventually leave you to a lesser, intermittent version of knowledge of him. You're not abandoned: he just sees it is beyond you to give yourself fully to him in this life, so doesn't push you beyond what you can handle.

This is a repeated-warning given by the Mystics of the Church to the Religious.

I'm currently going through the Second Conversion: the dark night of the senses, that, if I go through it successfully, should lead me into the second stage of the interior life, the Proficient life. I'm scared I'll fail, but am also trusting in God. If by his grace it is successfully-completed, and if I thought I had more time, I'd probably seek to enter a monastic contemplative order.

---

By the way, He's 'Abba'. It doesn't matter what the Jews called him, and my gut tells me to stay away from that name. I had sensed it, then had conversations with different Religious that I can reliably-detect the actions of the Holy Spirit in over a couple of weeks, whom all volunteered the same knowledge whilst having a deeper awareness of his constant presence in each moment. I can see the patterns of behaviour of who is in the world and who has been removed from it. All of them: 'Abba'.

Food for contemplation.

Post: #106

I wonder what George Pell thinks about all of this.

Post: #107

^ If by this stage of the game you aren't questioning any narrative against Traditional Institutions provided by a Socialist State Government, a Police Force that is bragging it is tracking 'Right Wing' thought in its constituents, and both a Socialist and (((Converged))) Australia Media, then there's no helping you.

Post: #108

The Catholic Church is also luciferian converged.







The rot is being pushed from the top down with hardcore socialism, replacement immigration into the West, gay marriage and the inevitable auction of indulgence.

Catholics will be forced to rebel against their leadership, flee the organisation or be subsumed into evil. I wish them the best in this endeavor.

Post: #109

Buddhism seems to be the most reasonable and pragmatic religion to me personally. I've always had a difficult time believing in a creator God and don't see myself believing in one anytime in the future.

Post: #110

(03-30-2019 04:25 AM)Robby88 Wrote:  Buddhism seems to be the most reasonable and pragmatic religion to me personally. I've always had a difficult time believing in a creator God and don't see myself believing in one anytime in the future.

Not singling you out personally but rather this line of thought. This mode of thinking where you go to the shop and select your religion from whichever suits you most. Is it a stretch of the imagination to say that the acceptability of choosing your gender is simply an extension of the acceptability of choosing your religion?

Your religion is passed on through your family in the same way your ethnicity is. Obviosuly this has broken down somewhere in the past years. Our dislocation, atomisation and disunity is rooted in our abandonment of the faith that allowed our people to survive for so long.

The “free-thinker” is no such thing; ie pagans atheists agnostics western buddhists (who wants the spirituality but no obedience to the Law). It’s usually a blind degenerate looking for a rationalisation for the guilt generated by his continued rejection of the moral law. Ever notice how such a man never makes a serious effort to study religion by talking to an authority in the church? He is happy to “debate” lay people whom he knows are not prepared or able to discuss 3000 years of deep thought. But our free thinker is so comfortable in his deep ignorance. He’s just looking for an excuse to be a degenerate. Do our totally uneducated modern men really believe that they know better than 3000 years of thought?

And isn’t it ironic that the guys who mock Christ for being a cuck or turning the cheek when the situation requires it, or allowing himself to be crucified to heal the sin of Adam—these are the same people who deride the jews when discussing the JQ, without realising what a fundamentally Jewish mindset they have. They’ve internalised the commands of their oppressors as EMJ would say. The jews wanted a nietchean superman and they had Christ murdered because they wanted God on their terms. Sound familiar?

Part of me wonders if the Right (in its atheist/darwinist/modernist form) ever gains control of the machinery of the State whether it will make everything worse than it would otherwise have been.

Post: #111

(03-29-2019 08:29 AM)Roosh Wrote:  We have an Orthodox Christianity thread but I wanted to create a more general thread for believers. This is not a thread for pedantic debate about the existence of God or which sect is best. This is for people who already believe in God and want to get closer to Him. (Atheists are free to create their own thread).

I've spent the last 12 hours straight preparing a post for this thread. But it's early morning here and time to go to sleep. I'll see if I can get something done tomorrow. I want it to be coherent.

I'll show the parallels and connections between Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jungian Psychology, Alchemy, Pyschedelic Experiences, Shamanism...

Hopefully.

I will take it as a given that God exists (even though I don't believe in him, I still have faith, but this is not uncommon even among the most devout). And I will also take it as a given that all those aforementioned 'schools' are given equal weight and merit, with respect to getting to the end goal: getting closer to God. As per your directive, Roosh.

It won't be rambling and there won't be any mumbo-jumbo. Hopefully. I will try to show that all these 'things' are just different means to the same end. I'll also give practical advice on finding a 'Church' for you, according to your stage in the journey. That is if you are on the journey. I've been on the road for some time now. This is spoken to all RVF members who are seeking. Those who have already found what they are looking for, will of course have no need of my advice.

Who am I? I'm no one. I'm dirt. I am in the blackest days of my life and I can see no way out. 7 years now I have been in the 'Dark night of the soul'. It is through this metaphor I will make my attempt to tie in all those schools above, from Chrisitianity to Buddhism.

Who am I? I do not know. I know I am not a scholar. I'm not even clever. And I know that I have failed. Totally. Absolutely. This is the dark night of the soul. And just when you think it can't get any worse, it just gets blacker, until one day you are staring in to the void, and then it stares right back at you!

I will paraphrase Jung from one of his works called 'Alchemical Studies': If you are a young man, this is probably not for you. You have been warned. There are great dangers in taking this path. This is not to be taken lightly. There are very real dangers ahead that will manifest if you are not ready to travel this road. If you are unsure, then you are not ready.

It was something like that anyway. If you are a younger man and you are living life and you are happy, then this road is not for you, yet. It will bring you no reward. And even for older men (above 25 say) it is a perilous and treacherous path. Once embarked upon...

You will then come back to this at other periods of your life as you fuse in the concepts of Alchemy, Christ, Buddha, Drugs, Therapy. A synthesis will take place, but only after complete and utter destruction which will only get worse as you age. You will come to know truth, you may even get some comfort, but the price to pay will be a form of torture and torment so great, that many do not come back from it.

Nevertheless, Jungians warn that "acknowledgement of the shadow must be a continuous process throughout one's life"


You can only come to know and be one with death while you are alive.

You will only ever know bliss and true freedom when you are dead.

Is the Buddhist's Nirvana the same as the Christian's Heaven?

This is why we are here: to know God. We are the lucky ones. We get to prepare for eternity. No matter what you call your 'God', we are all equal in the end.

It is in this spirit I'll approach it.


I will give a quick taster.

Ouroboros wrote:
Ecclesiastes 1:13 & 17-18 (KJV)

18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.


I first heard about 'Ouroboros' when Jung did his scholarly study and interpretation of the Alchemists in the book of his I just mentioned. It is the snake that eats its own tail. The paradox. The ever going circular argument that can never be settled. The Phoenix, burned to ashes and rising from its own flames. New again. After the most painful process possible. Jung called it the process of Individuation, and it is very much tied to the concept of the Shadow, of resurrection. Both literal and metaphorical. Allegorical.

This is pertinent because the quote there by Ecclesiastes 1:13 & 17-18 (KJV) is something I could link a dozen times to all those different 'schools' I said I was going to connect. Maybe later. In fact, definitely later, I will.

He also quoted DoBA -
---------------------------
Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:
I'm gradually becoming "black blanketed." I find as I get older, the world gets darker. Not because of any cliched "end times" scenario I imagine, but because all things lose their luster after a while. It's as if someone has thrown a dark blanket over your worldview.

[...]

One of the unconscious benefits of youth is that when most people are older than you are, you assume those people are somewhat competent and have acquired a certain wisdom that comes with age. But as you actually age, you start to realize most people your age never really gained much wisdom or insight. They're the same screw-ups you knew in middle school, only fatter and balder.

As such, relationships between people change. You no longer pile into the car with your friends and act wild. Everybody's too reserved. Everybody has something to lose. Everyone is on guard to a much greater degree.

[...]

Hence, my new term "The Black Blanket," which is a bit too awkward to coin as a phrase, but it's all I can come up with tonight.

--------------------


What DoBA is alluding to here, whether he realises it or not is "Nigredo".

In alchemy, nigredo, or blackness, means putrefaction or decomposition. Many alchemists believed that as a first step in the pathway to the philosopher's stone, all alchemical ingredients had to be cleansed and cooked extensively to a uniform black matter.[1]

In analytical psychology, the term became a metaphor 'for the dark night of the soul, when an individual confronts the shadow within'.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigredo


Already things are starting to connect. Alchemy, Jung, Christianity, Ouroboros, DoBA, myself...


DoBA, I say to you:

When you see your matter going black, rejoice, you are at the beginning of the work.
-- Rosarium Philosophorum

https://jungiangenealogy.weebly.com/nigredo.html#


Where you are now, many have been before, and many more are about to go there. Some willingly, some not.

Mortificatiois experienced as defeat and failure. Needless to say, one rarely chooses such an experience. It is usually imposed by life, either from within or from without…. -- Edinger (1985)[4]

I didn't want enlightenment. And I didn't get it. But the quest for it was imposed upon me many years ago. I've already talked about some bad experiences I've had on this very forum and in other 'religious' threads.

Let's just say, that just like greatness, some men have it forced upon them.

DoBA, this 'Black Blanket' of which you speak is very real. It took you to get to this stage with all your requisite wisdom to see it. How much further you decide to look in to the beast or avert your eyes is entirely up to you. Either way, it will never bring you glory. But it might bring you a deeper understanding. Only you know.


Nevertheless, Jungians warn that "acknowledgement of the shadow must be a continuous process throughout one's life";[34] and even after the focus of individuation has moved on to the animus/anima, "the later stages of shadow integration" will continue to take place—the grim "process of washing one's dirty linen in private",[35] accepting one's shadow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology)


Jung was clever, but he also had a sense of humour.

Back to Nigredo - putrefaction and mortification. I'll wash a bit of my own dirty linen in public here:

I keep a rotting bag of vegetables in my kitchen. It's ok, no one ever visits. At first you notice something a bit 'off' in the smell, then it gets worse, until the stench gets almost unbearable. Actually it is unbearable, it's enough to make most people gag. But when you live among the stench you get used to it. But you know what, after you get used to it, a funny thing happens: you don't notice it anymore, until one day you walk in to your kitchen and think 'what is that sweet smell? - it is almost like Roses'.

After the vegetables rot, I mean really full on rot, and are totally decomposed, they take on a new 'form'. Who would have thought a stench so foul could give rise to a scent so sweet?

Try it! It's not illegal. It might even impress the chicks!

And this is at the very heart of what we are talking about here.

"The first state is the hidden state, but by art and the grace of God it can be transmuted into a second, manifest state. That is why “the prima materia sometimes coincides with the idea of the initial stage of the process, the nigredo. It is then the black earth in which the gold or the lapis is shown like the grain of wheat. It is the black...~Carl Jung, Psychology and Alchemy. Page 312.

I will talk more about Nigredo and putrefaction and mortification later as it is all related - Buddhism, Christianity, Waste Recycling!

Jung will come up a lot as well as he's already done the heavy lifting. He was a great man. A wise man. A kind man. I'm just the errand boy...


Jung had the utmost respect for Christianity as he did other religions.

He is not a substitute to Christianity, merely a sign post on the path to show you the way to the temple.

"One must be utterly abandoned to God; nothing else matters, but fulfilling God's Will."
--Carl Jung, 'Memories, Dreams, Reflections'.


It's approaching mid day here and I'm about to settle down for the night. I waffled on as usual. You might even say I got my head stuck up my arse? :-)


As for Ouroboros, the Phoenix, the Quest -

The secret is that only that which can destroy itself is truly alive.
~Carl Jung, Psychology and Alchemy, Page 81.


"To save the village we had to burn the village"

There's a lot to get to grips with here. Hold on to your hats, it's going to get hairy...

Post: #112

To those saying "I can't be religious" and similar, I would say "good for you!", you probably have avoided real suffering in your life.

I don't mean this in a condescending manner.

It just became fully apparent to me, and Roosh from what I'm reading, that modern society, modern ideology has no answer for suffering. No answer at all.

You reach out, grasp at something, an institution, friends, society, culture and there's nothing there to soothe your suffering. Nothing that can give meaning or strength in your suffering. That everything we call modern society has no answer for suffering.

Not only that, but modern society actively shuns it. Treats it like a leper. Modern society has managed to reduce suffering to very low levels and to remove those who suffer from sight into hospitals, old folks homes, mental institutions.

Who has answers for someone who suffers?

Post: #113

(03-30-2019 03:24 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Is that a fucking xenomorph head in the centre?

Some people would look at those church designs and write us off as conspiracy-tards "well what adopted what, the culture or the church",.

The chicken or the egg.

Post: #114

(03-30-2019 05:16 AM)fenetre Wrote:  

(03-30-2019 04:25 AM)Robby88 Wrote:  Buddhism seems to be the most reasonable and pragmatic religion to me personally. I've always had a difficult time believing in a creator God and don't see myself believing in one anytime in the future.

Not singling you out personally but rather this line of thought. This mode of thinking where you go to the shop and select your religion from whichever suits you most. Is it a stretch of the imagination to say that the acceptability of choosing your gender is simply an extension of the acceptability of choosing your religion?

Your religion is passed on through your family in the same way your ethnicity is. Obviosuly this has broken down somewhere in the past years. Our dislocation, atomisation and disunity is rooted in our abandonment of the faith that allowed our people to survive for so long.

The “free-thinker” is no such thing; ie pagans atheists agnostics western buddhists (who wants the spirituality but no obedience to the Law). It’s usually a blind degenerate looking for a rationalisation for the guilt generated by his continued rejection of the moral law. Ever notice how such a man never makes a serious effort to study religion by talking to an authority in the church? He is happy to “debate” lay people whom he knows are not prepared or able to discuss 3000 years of deep thought. But our free thinker is so comfortable in his deep ignorance. He’s just looking for an excuse to be a degenerate. Do our totally uneducated modern men really believe that they know better than 3000 years of thought?

And isn’t it ironic that the guys who mock Christ for being a cuck or turning the cheek when the situation requires it, or allowing himself to be crucified to heal the sin of Adam—these are the same people who deride the jews when discussing the JQ, without realising what a fundamentally Jewish mindset they have. They’ve internalised the commands of their oppressors as EMJ would say. The jews wanted a nietchean superman and they had Christ murdered because they wanted God on their terms. Sound familiar?

Part of me wonders if the Right (in its atheist/darwinist/modernist form) ever gains control of the machinery of the State whether it will make everything worse than it would otherwise have been.

You are right of course, to a large extent. But with this wisdom you have, surely you know there are exceptions and Yin in the Yang, so to speak?

Let's not be too harsh.

I used to be among those degenerate 'so-called' buddhists, till I realised I was just kidding myself and no one else.

Since, I have studied it from a theological and comparative religion viewpoint. I have practiced it as well in its more pure and truest forms.

Certain schools of reform in Buddhism saw it as the ideal opressive mechanism for the state, centuries ago, and they were right, and it still goes on today.

I'd like this thread to be more about comparitive religion and getting to know God in all his forms rather than us quibbling and squabbling over the political ends of religion, which I think we all agree is not a good thing. Be that Buddhism or Christianity, or whatever.

It would be easy for this thread to fragment.

I sensed an earnestness in Roosh's voice when he made this thread.

I say this humbly as a nobody, and someone who I am sure wouldn't be able to last 5 minutes with you in a proper theological debate fenetre.

There's a reason they have a "No Religion, No Politics" sign above the bar in most pubs. Things get heated and escalate quickly.

Not singling you out personally but rather this line of thought.

What Robby88 wrote:
Buddhism seems to be the most reasonable and pragmatic religion to me personally. I've always had a difficult time believing in a creator God and don't see myself believing in one anytime in the future.

is a common belief or rather non-belief system among those that seek, among those at the beginning of the journey. Buddhism is a gateway drug to Christianity and the two can even co-exist perfectly well if you know what you're doing. The very fact they are mutally exclusive means there is no conflict, no gray area.

But then, you dive deeper in, and you see that maybe they aren't so different after all. But that is after many hundreds of hours of study.

It's common for people to think, oh jesus, he was a buddha right, or a monk, right? kind of thing. And no, that's not what it's about at all. It's another common misconception to those on the path. But...

If you look on religion as a vehicle, zooming right out, then back in again, rinsing repeating, you just get tired of it all and shout out loud: WHAT THE FUCK IS THE QUESTION HERE?

They still aren't the same of course. But as someone who has done 'the work' I see them as lights on the path.

I actually relate to Robby88 and what he says to a very great extent in fact, so I know where he's coming from. But if he is thinking along those lines then he is already on the path. Only he knows where it will take him.

Let's not tar all buddhists with the same brush (not saying you were), coz that's no better than saying all catholic priests are child molesters.

I know that Roosh has done 'the work' too with his reading and looking in to the more esoteric religions, the Eastern religions, but yet he is finding himself at a further stage down 'his' path.

I hope you don't see this as me policing you in anyway, as I do very much agree with you as well. But if he feels this way, then he feels this way. Let's encourage him. Let's provide a 'safe space' for him to explore. (just kidding about the safe space shit)

God can not be forced on anyone. It is for each man to find what it means to him. And only those that humble themselves, and do 'the work' will have a chance of getting an answer, even if it's one they don't like.

I'm sure God does not mean the exact same thing to any two people in the whole world, even those in the same church who pray side by side.

God is within. As much as he is 'out there' pulling all the levers.

I think.

Post: #115

I don't want to dwell on it because it's a very touchy subject for some people, suffice to say that I hope that wise Catholics find a parish which is to the maximum extent kept at arm's length from the Vatican.

Here you can see from the side that the statue is not rising up as it might seem from the front but lunging forward.



And here is the demonic side shot.



Some will attack me as being a subversive but a temple like this and it's altars are not designed by accident.

My only motivation is to ensure that men seeking God do not blindly put their trust in the Church as an organisation. At some point, perhaps soon, all Catholics will be forced to choose between God and the Vatican.

Post: #116

(03-30-2019 06:29 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I don't want to dwell on it because it's a very touchy subject for some people, suffice to say that I hope that wise Catholics find a parish which is to the maximum extent kept at arm's length from the Vatican.

Here you can see from the side that the statue is not rising up as it might seem from the front but lunging forward.



And here is the demonic side shot.



Some will attack me as being a subversive but a temple like this and it's altars are not designed by accident.

My only motivation is to ensure that men seeking God do not blindly put their trust in the Church as an organisation. At some point, perhaps soon, all Catholics will be forced to choose between God and the Vatican.

The pursuit of truth above all. Take priority over any organization. Indeed.

Post: #117

delete

Post: #118

(03-29-2019 10:42 PM)Fortis Wrote:  I can honestly say that a lot of the forum is falling into various shades of black pill. Especially those of us who have gone through the grind to smash chicks.

I haven't studied the black pill much, but there seems to be two different types of black pill such that we need different words for them.

There are the incels who have given up who are a type of black pill.

Then there are those who took the red pill, had "success" however measured, and reached a point of dissatisfaction. Is that all there is?

Broadly speaking, there are two types of men on the forum. Those who hope to find a good quality woman, perhaps marry and have children. And those who have been married and realize the trap and illusion that it is in our current society. Both can reach a point of informed nihilism which is much different from that of an incel or societal loser.

Post: #119

(03-30-2019 05:55 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  To those saying "I can't be religious" and similar, I would say "good for you!", you probably have avoided real suffering in your life.

I don't mean this in a condescending manner.

It just became fully apparent to me, and Roosh from what I'm reading, that modern society, modern ideology has no answer for suffering. No answer at all.

You reach out, grasp at something, an institution, friends, society, culture and there's nothing there to soothe your suffering. Nothing that can give meaning or strength in your suffering. That everything we call modern society has no answer for suffering.

Not only that, but modern society actively shuns it. Treats it like a leper. Modern society has managed to reduce suffering to very low levels and to remove those who suffer from sight into hospitals, old folks homes, mental institutions.

Who has answers for someone who suffers?

Do you think you are the only person in the last few thousand years who has asked this very question? And I'm not being condescending either.

This question you ask is at the heart of the journey.

It's not about them, it's about you!



It's about you being totally and utterly devastated. Totally lost. It's about not being able to find succour or salvation. It's about the long dark night of the soul. It's about burning in hell. On this Earth. It's about knowing you never will find an answer. Still you seek.

Because you asked those very questions you asked, nomadbrah, in an earnest fashion, and you did 'the work' to try to make some kind of sense of this seemingly unfathomably cruel existence.

Buddhist Koan: Is it better to be the vessel, or what resides in the vessel?

Would you prefer to get a terminal illness yourself, or would you prefer to watch a near and dear one go through it. It's not a trick question. Just like the koan, it's meant to provoke thought. You need to do the 'work'.

Most can go through life without needing God. Good for them. They may even subscribe to some religion because they have to (see Islam), but like Jung said, this isn't a path that you go down lightly, that you go down of your own volition - it is usually because this life and its meaning and the lack of its meaning has consumed you.

Who has the answers for someone who suffers?

No one. Not even God himself sometimes, if you can find the bastard.

I've wrestled with God longer than I care to admit. I've believed in him. I've not believed in him. I hated him. I told him in prayer that I would kick his fucking arse if I ever get a chance to lay my hands on him for this cruel existence, not just of mine, but of others. Silly eh? I know.

Essentially you are asking a 'does god exist' kind of question, and it's a good question, and I can only help you so far, seing as I also don't really believe in him either! But even those that do and are close to him won't be able to help you till you ask the question in earnest yourself.

I'm going to get totally derailed and sidetracked answering this question a hundred times over.

We need to stick a "No religion, No politics" sign above this bar we're all drinking in. :-)

But do I think I am the only one who has ever wrestled with God. Nah, I'm not that special.

You will like this one:

In Genesis it is said that Jacob wrestled with God at Peniel and was renamed 'Israel' - he who wrestles with God. That is my interpretation anyway.




I think a lot of people confuse God with the cliche of sky fairies and the man in the clouds with the big beard. That's not what it's about.

It's about coming to terms with this existence, of asking 'why'?

And then getting no answer. Or an answer you don't like.

It's about spiritual development and growth. About personal growth.

It's also about societal growth and development and good rules to abide by. See Confucianism. For both societal values and family values. For greater cohesion.

Maybe that sheds some light.

Some men don't need god. Some men don't believe in god. Some men seek god and never find him. Some worship false gods. Some just worship different gods but can go along to get along. Some worship different gods and won't be happy until they've chopped your head off so you will worship their god too.

It's a clusterfuck. I get it.

I may be wrong, but I don't think this is the question Roosh is posing here. I think we are looking at God from the perspective of a personal spiritual path for growth, and if possible a pragmatic solution of some kind of 'church' to join to do good and help others now that we have grown up and we have become strong men. Because we can.

You don't need to be a manic street preacher to spread the word of God.

And the clever ones lead by example. Not by bullying.

Some times you can get more out of your men, by truly leading them, not crushing them. Like an infantry soldier that would die for his officers, because he 'loves' them.

And so on and so forth down the chain of command.

We are all just errand boys.

Post: #120

(03-30-2019 05:55 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  Who has answers for someone who suffers?

Buddha. It was the premise of his spiritual journey, enlightenment, and teachings - http://www.buddhismforbeginners.com

"In the same way, the Buddha said, the urgent need of our existence is to find lasting relief from recurrent suffering, which robs us of happiness and leaves us in strife."

(03-30-2019 05:55 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  It just became fully apparent to me, and Roosh from what I'm reading, that modern society, modern ideology has no answer for suffering. No answer at all.

Agree with you 100%. Modern society teaches consumption, materialism, and self-indulgence as the path to happiness (or the way to be less miserable).

Post: #121

(03-30-2019 05:55 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  Who has answers for someone who suffers?

The Buddha.

It is noteworthy that of all the major and minor religions, it seems that it's Buddhism and Christianity which spend the most time and effort contemplating the nature of suffering in this world and offering a way out of it.

I would also agree with other people in this thread that the number of lifestyle Buddhists in the West is regrettable.
Ususally if you ask these people questions like "Have you read the Pali canon?", "Which sutra are you studying right now?" they'll stare at you like a deer in the headlights.
What is Mahayana, Theravada, Vajrayana, and what are the differences?
Over thousands of years of history, who are some influential monks, scholars, or schools of thought that you find interesting or insightful, and what did they ponder, preach or postulate?
I mean most can't even name the four noble truths or the eightfold path.

Also, while in the Western sphere of thought, religion and philosophy are more or less separate, in the Eastern world view this separation does not exist in the same way.
What we call "Buddhism" alone is an extensive, rich and deep edifice of ideas, spread over a vast continent and over the aeons built up and developed by numerous cultures, peoples and societies.

While they all had the same starting point, over time they went into many different directions. Some just stuck to the original teachings, some didn't. Some pray to statues for a good harvest or rain. Some ventured into mysticism. Some broke all taboos in their search for answers. And some even killed the Buddha.

"Buddhism" is a very convenient label, but doesn't reflect the world of ideas that are described by it.

You could compare the Western lifestyle Buddhist with some Asian person that comes up to you and says something like:
"Oh, Christianity is so fascinating! I read a book about it once. It's all about love and spreading the love, right? Jesus said love is the answer! It makes so much sense to me. I now consider myself kind of a Christian, you know. It's such a deep message, being compassionate, helping each other, being a good person. I even went to visit a Church once, it was an amazing experience, such a spiritual and mystical place. We just don't have that where I'm from! I'm thinking about doing a retreat at this monastery to learn more, you know, just living with the monks, praying, thinking about life and finding myself."

We've probably all met someone like that, usually with religions reversed though.
They don't see that they are barely scratching the surface of the real thing.


Anyway, in completely different news, that:



is a snake's head.

No way around it, and no way that it's just a coincidence. Especially considering what the rest of the building looks like.
I don't think that the architect and the artist just happened to be pranksters trying to stick it to the Church (and somehow absolutely nobody noticed).
It's intentional.

Post: #122

Not sure how appropriate this may be. This is really difficult to share. I've really been struggling in my circumstances for the best part of a year. It's been perhaps the hardest 12 months I've had since I was in my early 20s. Big financial problems among other things. A couple of times, in the small hours of a sleepless night, I prayed to "whatever might be out there".

You know what? I felt a presence or voice saying "they" would make me wealthy if I surrendered to them. I knew what was up and felt a chill up my spine and I emphatically said no, never. I was not on any substances at this time (or ever, apart from the occasional drink). So I told the evil to fuck off no matter how hard my personal circumstances got.

That's all. God hasn't showed up yet.

Post: #123

Basically, you can look within for answers or follow a monotheistic religion and leave it to blind faith in a supernatural being. There are many paths one can take. To each his own. A God Pill infers there's either only one true God and way of life or a universal God and globalist religion we can all get behind -- neither will satisfy everybody and both concepts are man-made and human specific in a vast universe that goes way beyond us.

Post: #124

It's exciting to be having this revelation that seeking God and learning about Christianity is not just for dumb "man in the sky" people who can't "overcome their fear of death and seek out science and reason instead", as I used to think... BUT...

My biggest fear right now is that I am starting down this path of seeking God simply because I am getting married, early 30s, and succumbing to the idea of having children, not chasing pussy at all, and wanting to live a "meaningful" life . And that all this search for deeper meaning and finding wisdom in religion is is a rationalization to justify the cowardice of getting married to a regular, sensible girl; instead of taking a risk, chasing the dream, and perusing the ultimate male goal of becoming a 40 year old mulit-millionaire with a 20 year old 10/10 wife.

On the flip side - I am also having severe regrets for even waiting this long to think about marriage and children. So much historical redpill advice was getting men to the realization that they don't need to get married right out of college, and that banging into your 30s+ and settling down later is a viable and even preferred option. Now, I'm not so sure. I used to think that guys were nuts getting married young. Now I look at same-age friends and family who have 5 year old kids and wonder wtf was I thinking for waiting so long...

Other than watching Dr. E. Michael Jones videos, what should I do to keep developing? Really hoping to find a good not-to-hard-to-understand reading/viewing list that will walk me through with baby steps.

Post: #125

(03-30-2019 09:02 AM)Avoy Wrote:  Basically, you can look within for answers or follow a monotheistic religion and leave it to blind faith in a supernatural being. There are many paths one can take. To each his own. A God Pill infers there's either only one true God and way of life or a universal God and globalist religion we can all get behind -- neither will satisfy everybody and both concepts are man-made and human specific in a vast universe that goes way beyond us.

That's just what every sensible scientifically minded person thinks because they are totally hung up on the "supernatural" aspect. It makes it so easy to just go along and be like "yeah, see - giant universe - religion is silly"

Now though I'm realizing that Christianity never was that, and this perspective was fed to me all my life by collaborators to make me think my ancient lineage were dumb people not worth respecting.

As far I can tell so far, God is something like the idealized anthropomorphized "being" who understands the truth behind and reason for all things. Seeking God is seeking perfection of consciousness and understanding of the universe and humanity within it. If one is not willing to place God above "humanness" into a "supernatural" position, then he will always be striving for goals within the realm of the human/animal world only.

I'm also starting to understand why Jordan Peterson wouldn't let go of the "true enough" concept after hours of debate with Sam Harris about simply defining words like "true" "fact".