The Andrew Yang thread

Why do you need a tax at all? Just print the money. Doing so dilutes the value of the currency in proportion to those who own it

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(03-10-2019 10:00 AM)Hypno Wrote:  Why do you need a tax at all? Just print the money. Doing so dilutes the value of the currency in proportion to those who own it

The rich own assets not money, so it hits working class people the most.

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(03-10-2019 10:00 AM)Hypno Wrote:  Why do you need a tax at all? Just print the money. Doing so dilutes the value of the currency in proportion to those who own it

The USA has already been doing this since the 1970s when they went off the gold standard.

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Dissidents are trashing on Trump for Yang simply because they're... bored. Real change is hard and takes years, if not decades, and it's not clear that Trump will be able to make a measurable impact on our lives. So the restless soul moves to what may give entertainment or excitement in what is generally a hopeless situation. I don't believe in Yang's platform or UBI (it seems like glorified welfare to me), but it's stimulating to meme someone that could hurt my enemies. Trump hasn't given us a whole lot to be excited about in the meanwhile.

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(03-10-2019 09:35 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

(03-10-2019 09:02 AM)Jaydublin Wrote:  I'm seeing a lot of people posting their opinion on Andrew Yangs UBI proposal without actually listening to Andrew. Just so we are all on the same page Andrew proposes the idea that the 1k per month be given no matter your situation. If you are unemployed you get 1k, if you make 20$ an hour you get 1k, and if you make 500k a year you get 1k per month extra....no strings attached.


But it is not on top of welfare benefits. So if one gets 400$ a month in food stamps they will not get the full 1k or maybe they will and not get food stamps. But 1k is what each person gets. I am not sure if this applies to disability, probably the same.

So all those whose only income is welfare will be getting $1000 per month, only. And everyone else will be getting their current income, plus $1000 (unless they choose to reduce their hours). There will be huge inflation due to all the middle and high income earners splashing that $1k around with abandon. And the bottom section of society will be trying to buy their necessities with $1k - the problem that all these necessities have just doubled in price.

It's entirely speculative. (Rich) right wing pundits will tell you that low taxes leads to increased spending which pumps up the economy but if you suggest that the rich guys should cop a tax and give the money to the little guys to spend then suddenly they'll tell you in frightful, hushed tones that all the extra money will lead to rampant price inflation.

The reality is that unless there's a production shortfall then vendors will simply up supply to meet demand. The Chinese can't price gouge if the Indians will just undercut them.

That's another issue with this scheme. Much of this money is obviously just going to end up in China by way of Walmart. In a perfect world there would be a system where you could only spend that money on American goods and services but that would require immense government oversight to achieve.

Something else to watch out for. Unless there are protections against seedy lending linked to any UBI then it's going to end up as a giant money-funnel for predatory globo-jewish banking cartels. They'll structure loans to come out of the UBI the microsecond the money goes in and for the low IQ types that $1000 will buy them a Cadillac that ends up costing them $240,000 over 20 years. When the dumber breeds of refugees wind up here in Australia the banks are all over them like white on rice. For the lenders it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

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(03-10-2019 08:49 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

(03-10-2019 08:23 AM)Hypno Wrote:  Sorry, late to the party because I thought this was the left eating itself.

Is the 4Chan crowd and former Trump supporters now supporting Yang? Why would they do that? Is this a prank or serious?

Probably because he comes across as rational, intelligent and willing to fight for working class men - so everything Trump is not

Lets be real, that's what naive people think.

Some of you are really falling for this shit? You think this guy or anyone else for that matter can peacefully grab the reigns and correct our coarse?

Not at this point. Sorry to burst your bubble.

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Quote:Why do you need a tax at all? Just print the money. Doing so dilutes the value of the currency in proportion to those who own it

Adding 2trillion a year to the money supply would cause hyperinflation

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(03-10-2019 12:17 PM)aeroektar Wrote:  

(03-10-2019 08:49 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

(03-10-2019 08:23 AM)Hypno Wrote:  Sorry, late to the party because I thought this was the left eating itself.

Is the 4Chan crowd and former Trump supporters now supporting Yang? Why would they do that? Is this a prank or serious?

Probably because he comes across as rational, intelligent and willing to fight for working class men - so everything Trump is not

Lets be real, that's what naive people think.

Some of you are really falling for this shit? You think this guy or anyone else for that matter can grab the reigns and correct our coarse?

Not at this point. Sorry to burst your bubble.

You don't have a sense of humor, do you?

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(03-10-2019 09:55 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  The correct way to fund UBI is to institute a Tobin tax on all financial transactions.

You want to wire $10.000.000 to buy a mansion? 1%

You want to speculate $1.000.000.000 against the Peso? 1%

You want to short sell one million times a day? 1% of each and every position

It's a simple and efficient method of taxing those who primarily live of investments, while at the same time removing short term speculation.

Then businesses and individuals move their money to other markets. Then companies no longer have access to capital so they have problems remaining solvent or growing. It seems people will never learn. You can't tax productive people and expert prosperity. Too bad people will have to learn the hard way.

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(03-10-2019 02:06 PM)zigZag Wrote:  

(03-10-2019 09:55 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  The correct way to fund UBI is to institute a Tobin tax on all financial transactions.

You want to wire $10.000.000 to buy a mansion? 1%

You want to speculate $1.000.000.000 against the Peso? 1%

You want to short sell one million times a day? 1% of each and every position

It's a simple and efficient method of taxing those who primarily live of investments, while at the same time removing short term speculation.

Then businesses and individuals move their money to other markets. Then companies no longer have access to capital so they have problems remaining solvent or growing. It seems people will never learn. You can't tax productive people and expert prosperity. Too bad people will have to learn the hard way.

No they don't cause they're not allowed to.

Move your business and you can't sell to that country. That was in fact what Trump was running on.

The first step to empowering workers is to stop borderless corporations.

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That's called exchange controls. Third world used to have that.
it doesn't work, and proposing that in the US would be tantamount to admitting third world status

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(03-10-2019 02:50 PM)Hypno Wrote:  That's called exchange controls. Third world used to have that.
it doesn't work, and proposing that in the US would be tantamount to admitting third world status

That's hilarious.

The world was built on these policies.

Globalism as we know it, is 30 years old at the very most.

You can trade, but you can't fuck people over with no consequence.

This is simple nationalist policy, that Trump ran on. Tariffs on foreign goods.

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UBI is too expensive (so is Medicare-For-All)

But ethically, I agree with the sentiment that we need to prepare for the impending loss of jobs due to automation.

Welfare-For-All does not seem to be the best solution though.

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(03-10-2019 02:46 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

(03-10-2019 02:06 PM)zigZag Wrote:  

(03-10-2019 09:55 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  The correct way to fund UBI is to institute a Tobin tax on all financial transactions.

You want to wire $10.000.000 to buy a mansion? 1%

You want to speculate $1.000.000.000 against the Peso? 1%

You want to short sell one million times a day? 1% of each and every position

It's a simple and efficient method of taxing those who primarily live of investments, while at the same time removing short term speculation.

Then businesses and individuals move their money to other markets. Then companies no longer have access to capital so they have problems remaining solvent or growing. It seems people will never learn. You can't tax productive people and expert prosperity. Too bad people will have to learn the hard way.

No they don't cause they're not allowed to.

Move your business and you can't sell to that country. That was in fact what Trump was running on.

The first step to empowering workers is to stop borderless corporations.

Except that's not gonna work. Trump ran on trade being FAIR. He didn't want to get rid of free trade. This comment of yours is basically ugly girl mentality. Unable to compete so you should stifle competition.

People are free. It's their money. The only solution is to uplift other people. Not try to enslave the capable people who produce. Any sort of authoritarian measure is a nonstarter.

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Globalism as we know it is much older than 30 years.

Gold has been used as a currency for hundreds of years. Following world war 1, most countries abandon the gold standard. In 1933, Roosevelt devalue the dollar and made it illegal for Americans to own gold, but foreigners could still exchange dollars for gold.

after world war II, the rest of the world's economy was in shambles, but the dollar was still as good as gold because it can be converted into gold. It wasn't until Nixon abrogated the gold exchange clause in 1971 that dollars were no longer exchangeable for gold.a few years later, in 1975, Ford made it legal to again on gold as an American.

the explosion of debt, particularly American debt, traces back to the bretton woods convention during world war II. We should so much debt, we had to go off the gold exchange standard. After we did that, the debt went exponential.

I think the universal basic income is a really bad idea, for a number of reasons, but there's no reason to create a new tax to pay for it if it ever got enacted. We don't start a new tax every time we start a war, we just issue more debt.

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(03-10-2019 02:50 PM)Hypno Wrote:  That's called exchange controls. Third world used to have that.
it doesn't work, and proposing that in the US would be tantamount to admitting third world status

Quote:Then businesses and individuals move their money to other markets. Then companies no longer have access to capital so they have problems remaining solvent or growing. It seems people will never learn. You can't tax productive people and expert prosperity. Too bad people will have to learn the hard way.

How the hell is speculating with capital a more productive activity than someone earning an income on a 9 to 5 job?!? A transaction tax of about 0.1% or less (not nomad's 1%, that's too high) will barely be noticed and would result in a huge windfall, in addition to stabilizing financial markets by eliminating the more speculative end.

We've been conditioned to accept the very extreme form of socialism already in place, in the form of high income taxes, and to cuck for big capital, that has been sucking nearly all the wealth created by labor since the 1970s. There has been a huge increase in productivity and technology, and most of the gains have eluded the middle class. The idea here is to rebalance that.

And access to capital is a non-issue. Consumers will have $1-2 trillion to spend, and most of this will be spent, there will be a bottom up trillion dollar capital injection into the economy at the local level, trickle up economy. Access to capital is not an issue.

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(03-10-2019 12:19 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

Quote:Why do you need a tax at all? Just print the money. Doing so dilutes the value of the currency in proportion to those who own it

Adding 2trillion a year to the money supply would cause hyperinflation

Rough calculation , but it gives you some perspective:

M4, the total money supply in the US, is around $15-20 trillion. The US economy produces over $20 trillion in goods and service annually. Yang's UBI would add about a $1 trillion in cash to the economy, about 5%, for an economy that grows about 2.5%-3%, this means an extra inflationary pressure of 2% per year. Very manageable, given the potential positive effect on growth.

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Speculating is capital earns an excess return only if it provides liquidity. It's completely legitimate provided at your own capital, and not the central banks which are actually private we owned Banks with a license to print money. Literally. The speculation generally eliminates price discrepancies, it lowers the spread between bid and ask.

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(03-10-2019 06:22 PM)911 Wrote:  

(03-10-2019 02:50 PM)Hypno Wrote:  That's called exchange controls. Third world used to have that.
it doesn't work, and proposing that in the US would be tantamount to admitting third world status

Quote:Then businesses and individuals move their money to other markets. Then companies no longer have access to capital so they have problems remaining solvent or growing. It seems people will never learn. You can't tax productive people and expert prosperity. Too bad people will have to learn the hard way.

How the hell is speculating with capital a more productive activity than someone earning an income on a 9 to 5 job?!? A transaction tax of about 0.1% or less (not nomad's 1%, that's too high) will barely be noticed and would result in a huge windfall, in addition to stabilizing financial markets by eliminating the more speculative end.

We've been conditioned to accept the very extreme form of socialism already in place, in the form of high income taxes, and to cuck for big capital, that has been sucking nearly all the wealth created by labor since the 1970s. There has been a huge increase in productivity and technology, and most of the gains have eluded the middle class. The idea here is to rebalance that.

And access to capital is a non-issue. Consumers will have $1-2 trillion to spend, and most of this will be spent, there will be a bottom up trillion dollar capital injection into the economy at the local level, trickle up economy. Access to capital is not an issue.

What? Nothing you said here makes any sense. That person working the 9-5 wouldn't have that job unless the business had the capital to hire them. You can't start a business without access to capital. You can't grow a business without access to capital. Literally nothing happens without access to capital. That's the whole point of the stock market.

Whether you speculate or you're a longterm investor, you provide capital that businesses need to survive. Big capital keeps the economy growing. 10% of people pay 80% of taxes. Those "Evil" Big capital bastards definitely need to start paying their fair share it seems 80% just isn't enough.

Consumption isn't access to capital because capital is needed to produce things. There is no value in consumption. The big value is in production.

The issue with your 0.1% tax is that the money is already taxed. It was taxed when they earned it. So you're saying to double or even triple tax people. That is a great way to have capital flee. It seems people who believe in parasitism never learn.

Your "Bottom up" system is the dumbest thing i've ever heard tbh. You essentially give people money for what? Existing? All that would do is devalue the money. Consumers having money still isnt enough to cause production to rise. Cause those businesses would still need capital to expand.The value in the country is in production. That's why america is great. Production.

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You also incent people to do nothing, and you attract people to this country who want to be here to get paid to do nothing. And you do it on the backs of people who actually do something, who now have an incentive to do it somewhere else

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He was just on the breakfast club too. The ghetto vote is locked.

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(03-10-2019 06:59 PM)Hypno Wrote:  You also incent people to do nothing, and you attract people to this country who want to be here to get paid to do nothing. And you do it on the backs of people who actually do something, who now have an incentive to do it somewhere else

The people who do "nothing"(Except provide capital") Are more useful than the people who "actually do something"

Tell me. How many worker owned businesses do you know that were started and continue to be successful while being owned by workers? Seriously? Look into it.

There is a reason that every business is either started by a rich guy with capital or by a guy with an idea who gets capital from a bank.

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Forget his claimed positions.

Has anyone in this thread dug up any info on who is behind this clown and helping to advance him?

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Marx and Engels.

UBU has been tried in one or two Scandinavian countries and been a failure

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