Post: #1

I just returned to my city after a vacation in which I effectively went out 6 nights in a row. After that experience, I just don't feel like going out alone to bars, clubs, or any variation of the two and meeting the women in those places for the indefinite future. My desire isn't for this post to come off as a rant, but there's certainly some venting of frustration here.


1. Atmosphere-Most bars are just loud places where people go to get drunk and "have fun". I've found the "have fun" part to be load of nonsense. Almost everything is an appearance--from the crowds to the silly attempts at dancing by people looking to show off how great they are. Some bars have their merits because of games and live music, but those are things that exist at other places. As someone who usually finds himself alone, going out isn't very fun and I find the environment to be inauthentic.

2. Girls-This past trip (Nashville and New Orleans) has served to further lower my tolerance of dealing with the American white girl. The barrage of unpleasant attitudes, veiled insults, status digging, and mind games has driven me up the wall.
I'm sure there are some girls who don't have a stick up their ass, but I probably won't find them in a bar where they're likely to be surrounded by orbiters and "friends".

3. Social aspect-There's a big stigma associated with going to a bar alone. No one is ever going to admit to it openly, but from my experiences in the US, there's an almost implicit expectation that I shouldn't be doing any activities without someone else (including travel). When talking with anybody, it's almost certain that the questions "Who are you with?" and "Where are your friends?" will come up, and those get old real fast. Nevermind the fact that many people who go out are just going through the motions with their acquaintances, but I digress.

For the record, I have no friends and the only people I talk with on a regular basis are a few family members (not counting people at my job). This social aspect of my life is something I really want to improve within the current year. And that aspect has always been a very difficult thing for me for a variety of reasons that would make this post too voluminous. It's not only limiting my game potential, but I'm definitely feeling some negative effects of isolation.

4. Results-I have plenty of experience with night game both in the US and abroad. However, my success rate is actually pretty bad. If I were to take out college house parties from the past, I can only think of one time where I've even brought a girl at a bar back to where I live (almost 2 years ago). Overall, I have a dry spell of almost a year now. By not going out on weekends or holidays, my volume of interaction with women drastically decreases. I have very limited opportunity to interact with women (outside of work) during the day and I'm done with the disappointment of online dating apps. My game is far from perfect, but I think I've hit a point where I may need some objective guidance to progress further.

I want to focus on improving several non-financial aspects of my life this year. It's natural for a guy my age to think about women but it's at a point where it can be a little consuming to my thoughts. I want to fix that by focusing on other things.

Post: #2

This issue has been discussed extensively as far as i know on this forum.

I refer you to the following threads to get a feel that you are not alone on this:

Clubs suck: /thread-14700.html

night game even worth it? : /thread-38949.html

The Death of night(club) game as we know it : /thread-9469.html


My only advice would be to go on Tinder:
Tinder app: /thread-19115.html

Post: #3

As you can tell by my username, I don't bother much with night game anymore

day game and social circle is my thing now

Post: #4

There are some pretty big tactical errors going on here that I think are not helping.

Going alone to a foreign city (other than Vegas) during the tail end of the holidays and right before New Years is not a good strategy. This is a time where most people have returned to their family, where people want to be with their significant others, and where "your group" is foremost in everybody's mind. Given the holidays, your frame is more likely to be negative due to loneliness and isolation. What many women are looking for at this time is not a ONS-- this is because they are surrounded by their friends who have boyfriends. What they want is a boyfriend.

"Who are you here with?" is a question that is very good for filtering out men who are going to hit and quit. Which, to be totally fair, are your intentions.

I think it's best that you move on from night game and focus on your career and your friendships. Night game is best launched once you have a social circle.

Post: #5

Thats why I believe online is more time efficient and provides better filtering.

All that approaching in the club/pub, them dancing, it's all about validating and attention seeking.

They just go out for attention and free drinks etc.

Online you can quickly just get to the chase, yes/no/maybe. You can filter hundreds while sitting on the lounge relaxing.

If you are 6'4" and chad then of course you can go out AMOG the club and score pussy, but if you are Mr average, then online is a greater ROI, in my opinion.

Post: #6

Sounds like you would benefit from linking up with an RVFer nearby to make nightgame more enjoyable. I've tried doing it alone and it isn't as fun as when I am out with friends and I passively night-game.

I'd focus more on having fun when out. But it just sounds to me like you'd even find going out with male friends/acquaintances not enjoyable.

Post: #7

Too bad we don't live near each other, because I'm semi in the same position! I have friends, but none of them have the mindset to succeed at game. They've all sworn off women out of resentment and bitterness, others lack the confidence and motivation to cold approach, others only want a long term relationship, and the remaining are in long term relationships. AT least in my circle of friends, none of them can be good consistent wings. So, ill just stick to day game and online game unless one of them just wants to go out with me for fun. They'll never have the intention to go out with me to game girls.

Funny enough, one time i went out with my socially awkward brown friend, and girls were rejecting me because of him solely. They even told me that, they said he was creepy. I actually did better going out by myself.

Another time i went out with some dudes who i lift with sometimes, and we pulled 3 girls from the club all separately, Too bad these guys aren't motivated about the game like i am though, is all im saying.

I personally wouldn't bother with night game unless you're going out with people unless you got great game and are great looking on top of it, then you could get away with it. Stick to day game and online game for time being would make sense in your situation, until you find some cool dudes go out with...

Post: #8

Not going to tell you which style of game works best.

As far as men finding friends, the best places I suggest are the Gym, Shooting range and a lounge (primarily a cigar lounge)

As far as better women I suggest, Barnes and Noble, Art clubs (there are A LOT of "James Bond" Types of cocktail parties at art museums throughout the year, and from my experience, the men are weird but the women are gorgeous) and sadly Starbucks.

Post: #9

You've met a lot of high repped forum members, did any of them give you any actionable advice on why you might be having a year long dry spell?

Post: #10

I understand your situation and how running solo can sometimes fuck up your inner game. On the other hand some of my most successful nights have been solo. This is after having been shit tested with "why are you here alone?" and either blowing the question off or saying something like "I'm waiting for friends". It's not a big deal if you don't make it a big deal. When I go out alone I never *feel* alone or that I wished I had someone with me. It's all about your frame and emotional state.

But there's a difference between running solo because you want to and running solo because you have no other options. It sounds like you're in the latter situation and that's the issue. Lack of friends and a social life is fucking with your head and emotions and girls can tell as soon as you open your mouth.

I also disagree with going back on tinder. It won't solve your underlying problems and it's a crutch that demotivates you from going out and making friends/doing approaches. Online dating by nature de-values men and over-values women. It's the last thing a guy in your situation needs.

Some actionable advice:

>Look for *local* RF guys in your area and make 2 solid buddies you can do stuff with. It doesn't even matter if they're good at game and can teach you to pull. Just find dudes who are trustworthy and fun to chill with.
>Join 1 regular group activity outside of work even if it's a gay wiffle ball club or something
>Talk to random attractive women during the day at grocery stores or wherever. It will make you less dependent on night game to meet women if that's the route you want to go.
>Once you get some kind of social life going try night game again and you'll probably get better results.

Post: #11

I know that feel, especially this part:

(01-02-2019 03:19 PM)Rang off the Pipe Wrote:  1. Atmosphere-Most bars are just loud places where people go to get drunk and "have fun". I've found the "have fun" part to be load of nonsense. Almost everything is an appearance--from the crowds to the silly attempts at dancing by people looking to show off how great they are. Some bars have their merits because of games and live music, but those are things that exist at other places. As someone who usually finds himself alone, going out isn't very fun and I find the environment to be inauthentic.

I love going out, drinking, meeting new people, all that fun stuff. However I have a growing distate for "clubs," and it seems most bars are converting into pseud-clubs: turning up the music, dimming the lights, and clearing a dance floor.

I like to go out to pure *bars* just to drink and socialize, but it's rare that single girls will just wander in.

Maybe some of the older guys can chime in if things were always like this, or if it's a trend.

Post: #12

Thanks guys. Some of the responses have brought up things I hadn't even thought of. By coincidence, I happened to be in both cities while college football games were going on, so there were a lot of families and students out, which aggravated the group dynamic that was already present because of the holiday. That was my first real trip to the southern US, but it appears more common for families to go out drinking together in that part of the country.

(01-02-2019 07:13 PM)LINUX Wrote:  You've met a lot of high repped forum members, did any of them give you any actionable advice on why you might be having a year long dry spell?

I haven't received any actionable advice related specifically to that dry spell, but I can recall two specific things.

1. Building muscle-I'm a skinny person and have never been particularly muscular. This isn't for lack of trying but either injuries or finances have gotten in the way. I don't see myself as a bulky person but I want to have more of a fit, muscular aesthetic.

2. Unrelaxed-One member has said that I look "stiff". This is one of several comments that people have given me since I was a child (and as recently as two nights ago). The other common ones are that I look "serious", "angry", or don't "smile". I think I've learned more and more why that is within the past year, but it's not something I want to get into too specifically here.

The main things I personally attribute to the dry spell are:

1. Lack of volume
2. Hesitant to lead
3. Weaker social awareness/emotional intelligence
4. Natural shyness

I've been working on all of those things to various degrees, but there's still a long way to go.

Post: #13

Dang why did Day game bang get banned??

Anyway, this might go against the philosophy of this forum but I believe you should gain friends. I stated in another thread earlier that men work better in tribes or packs and women work well in groups or flocks. Maybe this coud be a coworker who shows a glimps of a slayer or a PUA. Maybe this could be a gym bro. Look at the movie 300 and tell me does their dynamic seem desireable?

Also I hate to break it to you but all those things you stated are kind of signs of lower testosterone. There's no reason to panic but maybe an eye opener.

Post: #14

OP it looks like you need to focus on building up your confidence first before getting out there in force.

Going out shouldn't feel like a chore. If you're not in a good mood, or anxious for whatever reason, you're better off doing something else.

Also, night game isn't for everyone, and there's no shame in admitting it. Have you tried approaching during the day? Meeting women in a more casual, less meat-market like environment? Like, say, cafes/museums/volunteering events/salsa (or whatever) dancing? If you're in the US there's plenty of co-ed social sports leagues too. Most of the women will be frumpy but it's a much more relaxed setting that you can use to practice and get back into the swing of things. Point being - night game is NOT the only way to meet women, and most certainly not the only way to build up your confidence.

Finally - while ideally you'd be able to link up with like-minded, game-focused guys, depending on your particular location this may not be possible, at least not every weekend. Doubly so if/when you're traveling. So it's best if you can get to a state where you don't mind going out alone, or seek out other avenues in which to meet women that are more suited to your personality and temperament.

TL;DR - take a break, work on yourself, get into a better mental + psychological state and then get back into night game (if you really want to, that is).

Oh - and one more thing. When goin out, don't pressure yourself too much - focus on having a good time. It's OK to just go number farming and following up with leads later. It isn't a failure if you don't pull a girl back to your pad the same night.

Post: #15

Hey rang, can you or do you enjoy dancing? I was also kind of in the same situation as you with no friends in a new city I think you're familiar with in upstate NY. I mostly role solo, since I am a beginner in game, my nights out were bland and sometimes bad, I was mostly doing talk game and they hardly led anywhere, like you mentioned, it was loud plus I have an accent and that doesn't make it easier for communication, I honestly considered quitting nightgame.

But I noticed there was untapped potential in nightgame, I felt that I can do better and have more fun with it. I read the dance game thread posted here on RVF and got introduced to swing dancing. Then I started watching videos and practicing the moves didn't even take long to master the basics. Then i went out to test my moves twirling, dipping and lifting the girls mixed with some simple salsa moves and my nights out have improved drastically.

I could often times escalate to make outs without saying much just by dancing with the girl, a stage I never reached before just by talking at the bars. And the girls love that swing and salsa shit, as you twirl, dip and lift them their faces light up, it spikes their emotions. As a result this entertains you and boosts your confidence, and when you're entertained, they are entertained, which often times makes it easier for you to escalate and lead.

If you haven't already, I highly recommend investing some time to learn some basic swing or salsa moves and then incorporate it to your nightgame routine, it will definitely boost your confidence and help in escalation and leading. All my hot leads from nightgame so far have involved dancing. The goal is not to show off but to invite the girl into your fun world and dance with her so you two can be in your own little world in the venue. Even though sometimes you will not pull, but you will definately be leaving the venues thinking, "Damn, that was fun."

Post: #16

An introverted guy with no friends doesn't enjoy going to night clubs??

What are you gonna tell me next, the sky is blue?

Post: #17

(01-02-2019 08:46 PM)redbeard Wrote:  I know that feel, especially this part:

(01-02-2019 03:19 PM)Rang off the Pipe Wrote:  1. Atmosphere-Most bars are just loud places where people go to get drunk and "have fun". I've found the "have fun" part to be load of nonsense. Almost everything is an appearance--from the crowds to the silly attempts at dancing by people looking to show off how great they are. Some bars have their merits because of games and live music, but those are things that exist at other places. As someone who usually finds himself alone, going out isn't very fun and I find the environment to be inauthentic.

I love going out, drinking, meeting new people, all that fun stuff. However I have a growing distate for "clubs," and it seems most bars are converting into pseud-clubs: turning up the music, dimming the lights, and clearing a dance floor.

This!!!! I have noticed all bars are turning into "peudo clubs". Been having a hard time trying to find a place just to sit down and meet people

Post: #18

(01-03-2019 11:29 PM)for.petes.sake Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 08:46 PM)redbeard Wrote:  I know that feel, especially this part:

(01-02-2019 03:19 PM)Rang off the Pipe Wrote:  1. Atmosphere-Most bars are just loud places where people go to get drunk and "have fun". I've found the "have fun" part to be load of nonsense. Almost everything is an appearance--from the crowds to the silly attempts at dancing by people looking to show off how great they are. Some bars have their merits because of games and live music, but those are things that exist at other places. As someone who usually finds himself alone, going out isn't very fun and I find the environment to be inauthentic.

I love going out, drinking, meeting new people, all that fun stuff. However I have a growing distate for "clubs," and it seems most bars are converting into pseud-clubs: turning up the music, dimming the lights, and clearing a dance floor.

This!!!! I have noticed all bars are turning into "peudo clubs". Been having a hard time trying to find a place just to sit down and meet people

That place would be called a lounge. And it's even more "social-circley" and exclusive than a club would be.

Post: #19

(01-04-2019 02:19 AM)The_e_man Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 11:29 PM)for.petes.sake Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 08:46 PM)redbeard Wrote:  I know that feel, especially this part:

(01-02-2019 03:19 PM)Rang off the Pipe Wrote:  1. Atmosphere-Most bars are just loud places where people go to get drunk and "have fun". I've found the "have fun" part to be load of nonsense. Almost everything is an appearance--from the crowds to the silly attempts at dancing by people looking to show off how great they are. Some bars have their merits because of games and live music, but those are things that exist at other places. As someone who usually finds himself alone, going out isn't very fun and I find the environment to be inauthentic.

I love going out, drinking, meeting new people, all that fun stuff. However I have a growing distate for "clubs," and it seems most bars are converting into pseud-clubs: turning up the music, dimming the lights, and clearing a dance floor.

This!!!! I have noticed all bars are turning into "peudo clubs". Been having a hard time trying to find a place just to sit down and meet people

That place would be called a lounge. And it's even more "social-circley" and exclusive than a club would be.

Not sure about Canada but the lounges here are definitely "easier" to game in for someone that doesn't like traditional nightgame. Example: https://www.yelp.com/biz/barbarossa-loun...-francisco

Music isn't as loud and you can freely roam around and mingle with different groups. Lots of girls there in two-sets as well, and even some solo girls, which I found isn't as common in nightclubs.

The danger is that you can easily burn a venue if you are uncalibrated. I don't personally like this style of game because I'm much more of a quick hitter, show value kinda guy. But I can see it working for the right type of guy.

Post: #20

(01-02-2019 09:05 PM)Rang off the Pipe Wrote:  I haven't received any actionable advice related specifically to that dry spell, but I can recall two specific things.

1. Building muscle-I'm a skinny person and have never been particularly muscular. This isn't for lack of trying but either injuries or finances have gotten in the way. I don't see myself as a bulky person but I want to have more of a fit, muscular aesthetic.

2. Unrelaxed-One member has said that I look "stiff". This is one of several comments that people have given me since I was a child (and as recently as two nights ago). The other common ones are that I look "serious", "angry", or don't "smile". I think I've learned more and more why that is within the past year, but it's not something I want to get into too specifically here.

1) Building muscle is almost free, it only costs time and if you want, a basic set of weights (cheap). You need to eat anyway so just eat well (meat).

2. You need a good, regular bashing. It'll relax you in the long run. Martial arts, specifically something that works on wearing you down and facing your fear of being hit will do wonders for you... you won't stress about the little bullshit things that subconsciously make you tense.

Post: #21

i feel you bruh. having taken both swing dancing and salsa dancing classes, i can say that it definitely helps.

but i stopped going to swing dancing classes because most of the women were unattractive nerds. combined with the cost of the classes, it was clear to me that I should simply stick to beginner status and not pursue it much further, at least not while i am broke.

Gonna stick to free dancing events to get my “practice” in.

but that being said, swing dancing is genuinely fun. If i were born rich, I would have pursued swing dancing more seriously.

for game purposes, i say stick to salsa. at least you can go to a salsa club and dance with some good-looking latinas on latin night. and it’ll give you an excuse to take some spanish classes — BAM — now you have a social life and are meeting new people all the time because you are taking language classes and going out to dance with people.

Whenever I next move to a city, that’s exactly what i’m gonna do. look for cheap salsa dance classes and spanish classes. meet locals. go out at night. profit.

On the other hand, most people that do swing dancing are nerds. I use the term “nerd” affectionately, not pejoratively. nice people, genuinely interesting, and often very book smart (seems like there’s a concentration of engineering/comp sci/physics swing dancers where I am), but not exactly girls that I’m tryna smash.

Good way to build a social circle with whom you can party later. This, I can agree with. Especially if you have introvert-tendencies — I can confirm that it worked for me, and overall helped me reject the idea that I absolutely have to pull on any one given night.

Edit: also co-sign co-ed sports. haven’t done it myself, but i am very interested. seems like a fantastic, organic way to meet people post-college, especially if you’re skilled at the sport. need to start working on my volleyball skills

Post: #22

(01-04-2019 02:22 AM)corsega Wrote:  Not sure about Canada but the lounges here are definitely "easier" to game in for someone that doesn't like traditional nightgame. Example: https://www.yelp.com/biz/barbarossa-loun...-francisco

Music isn't as loud and you can freely roam around and mingle with different groups. Lots of girls there in two-sets as well, and even some solo girls, which I found isn't as common in nightclubs.

The danger is that you can easily burn a venue if you are uncalibrated. I don't personally like this style of game because I'm much more of a quick hitter, show value kinda guy. But I can see it working for the right type of guy.

Yeah I think a bigger city would have better lounges. The ones here seem to be just for rich drug dealers.

Post: #23

OP mentioned that he was contemplating going back to online game. Have you had success in this arena? For certain guys it can be a great thing. If you are into online I suggest you check out theblackdragonblog. Black Dragon is a self proclaimed introvert and expert on dating multiple women online. I've spoken with him; dude's a bit odd but legit.

The other thing is that night game only works if you are super positive, have a lot of energy (but not too much), the ratios are good and/or you happen to approach the right girl at the right time. All of these things require fortitude, patience and tenacity which are hard to keep up on your own. Having said all that, the rewards of night game can be epic.

Day game is a long game. Just talk to women whenever you see a decent to good opportunity and carry the conversation on as long as it will go. Eventually you will get numbers and women. The quality can be amazing (like above your smv amazing). But it can take weeks or months. If you get comfortable doing it though, its fun.

Post: #24

(01-04-2019 01:33 PM)BasketBounce Wrote:  for game purposes, i say stick to salsa. at least you can go to a salsa club and dance with some good-looking latinas on latin night. and it’ll give you an excuse to take some spanish classes — BAM — now you have a social life and are meeting new people all the time because you are taking language classes and going out to dance with people.

...

Edit: also co-sign co-ed sports. haven’t done it myself, but i am very interested. seems like a fantastic, organic way to meet people post-college, especially if you’re skilled at the sport. need to start working on my volleyball skills

I'm starting salsa classes this week and it's something I've wanted to take up again for a long time. I would've started months ago but I had a professional obligation I wanted to get out of the way. And I'm already fairly conversational in Spanish, although I don't get much opportunity to practice it in my current city. There is a group I'm going to check out soon though.

I'm also in a co-ed league. I don't waste time with the girls on my team, but most of the guys (other teams included) are cool and have introduced themselves to me. For me it's a matter of not being hesitant to get to know a person and fighting that subconscious feeling to avoid asking questions and feeling "overengaged".

Someone mentioned testosterone testing. I tried to pursue it last year and had a lot of trouble finding a doctor who would offer it. This week I'm going to try harder to get that test since I'm now in a new city. I've already found some answers about myself this year and it's time to get some more.

Post: #25

OP:

Several things at play here.

One, if you are an introvert, you don’t need to go out 6 nights straight. This is for obvious reasons. Very quickly you will get burned out, and I would say you are already there. Going out alone is often a sign of a deeper problem, and you need to be properly socially calibrated when going out so much. You need to make friends.

I caution you from being defeatist, it is way too often that I hear men on this forum being defeatist. As cliched as it might sound, you need to focus on being positive despite whatever the Hell is going on in the world (we’re all noticing a downward trend for men in many ways).

It is almost impossible to walk into a bar alone and have much success. You immediately out yourself as a lone wolf character, and many will assume you have ulterior motives. I would only say lounge bars may offer a better return. The bad news is there is not much to expect out of bars and clubs with all the distractions cell phones and online dating offer.

As far as American girls are concerned, yes there are clear issues with them, but the trend is also intensifying globally, so you will be dealing with similar levels of entitlement abroad. And it’s only getting worse. American girls will not be interesting because betas shower them in praise and validation. They will also not be interesting, because the sexual market is skewed in their favor in the US. If men in the US decided they were no longer going to have it with shitty attitudes and fat women, we’d see changes. I’ve seen fat girls laughed at to their faces in other countries— there’s a reason it’s happening there and not here. There is no reason to feel insecure around girls, in fact they should feel insecure or qualify themselves around you.

OP you need to get friends, and by many definitions you sound like an Incel or Japanese Herbivore man. Use common sense here, you’re going to have to get out of the house, and you’re going to have to drop the entitlement.

I can tell you I've struggled with similar issues in the past, and the things that worked for me were lifting, making friends, developing a positive attitude, and bringing value to every social interaction.