Post: #1

I keep running into problems in the office environment, and I would be very thankful to hear your thoughts on it.

About me: I have a pretty good position (team lead) in a company in the digital industry. In our office we are about 70 people.

I have always kinda had trouble with not knowing what exactly is the best behavior towards my co-workers. Either I come across as too aloof/standoffish to people, or then on the other hand my impulse is to create a stronger bond than just superficial friendliness, which some people don't really want.

Some examples:

- I try to focus on my work at the office. Since I'm a team lead I have quite a bit of responsibility. That doesn't leave much time for socialising in the office. It's also not so easy for me to snap out of my concentration and get into "funny, jokey mode". That's why I seem kinda serious all the time. So that's why to some people it seems like I am aloof/ standoffish to them. Then sometimes when we have drinks at the office on a Friday I am friendly and open to them, but to some it seems kinda strange that I don't really talk with them during the week and then on Friday afternoon I kinda "change my personality" and become talkative.

- Some girls have made it pretty obvious that they are into me. Thing is unfortunately most of them are like a 4 or 5. While I genuinely like them as a person, I simply am not attracted to them. This creates tension. Other people in the office know that I kinda "rejected" them because I didn't make a move. This kinda made these girls "lose face" which I find unfortunate. I don't really know how I should act towards these girls. I want to be nice to them because I like them, but at the same time I don't want them to think that I want to hook up with them. Sometimes I then become too aloof/ standoffish to them, which I find not good.

- Many people in the office seem very friendly with each other, often making jokes and laughing together, but from what I know they actually don't really hang out together outside of the office. This is something I don't really understand. To my mind, if I have a good connection with a person, the logical thing is to go grab some drinks after work or on the weekend. But it seems like most people are actually quite happy with just joking around in the office, being friendly, but not meeting their office colleagues outside of work. I can definitely understand that, but for me it's kinda hard to strike that balance of being "funny" but still keeping a distance. That's why I often err on the side of being too aloof/ standoffish.

- If I happen to run into co-workers outside of the office (e.g. on a Saturday afternoon) I am very open and talkative because I am in a different mindset. But the next Monday when I see them again in the office my mood is quite different as I am in "work mode". This change of character seems strange to people, and I kinda come off as "schizophrenic". I really don't like it, but I can't help it.

I was wondering if other people have had similar issues in the office environment. Maybe someone can offer some tips what I could do differently. I would be very thankful for any comments.

I have been working independently for quite many years, and about 6 months ago started a new permanent position, and I really kinda seem to struggle with the social dynamics / behaviours in the office environment.

Post: #2

Thoughts:

- your last sentence

- if your work is more technical or is to oversee more complexity, and others’ jobs are lighter / softer / less left brained or what have you, there may be a true disparity of downtime and fluff

- some people keep a wall between work social life and private social life, and it’s not always who you’d expect


Solution ideas:

- go from employee to consultant, bless the office with your presence only when leading a meeting, so heads down work is at home, office visits are fun and an occasion, and you can charge based on results and not butt-in-seat time. later, add new clients and hire to delegate.

- work a little lower to the threshold to compensate if you are overachieving; use extra bandwidth to social climb to better level in the org

- ... anyone else?

Post: #3

Your post struck a chord in my soul, because I am exactly the same way and it's why I don't form relationships with people in the office. I have two personalities in the office - one in which I'm quite open and friendly, and another which is quite withdrawn. I relate it with being very self conscious and not being entirely comfortable around groups of people that I don't 100% gel with. It's those people that I don't gel with that kind of forces me to withdraw into my self.

So, maybe the same result but different causes.

Post: #4

If you don't engage them much at work, where you have real cause to discuss the task at hand with them, and seek their input, it is hardly surprising that they see your hyper-friendliness outside work as false or incongruent. You seem to be suggesting that you are not sincerely, regularly interested in their opinions on work matters, and don't invite them to shoulder tasks with you, in an environment where you are by definition united in the pursuit of the same goal. This could easily be interpreted as a lack of respect for their competence, if one wanted to be particularly negative. At the very least, if you are not friendly/helpful/open to being helped in a work environment then why would these people take you seriously socially?

If you want to manage these people better, you should ask their opinions on work matters. You don't have to invite them into your private life, or weep together at the water fountain, but you should give them the opportunity to demonstrate their value, and reciprocate by helping them where you're able. If you are a competent guy, and I don't doubt that you are, people below you will be flattered that you ask their advice, and it will be a great compliment to them to be included in your deliberations. It will almost certainly help you perform better too, as people have a great deal to contribute if they are given the opportunity and the right encouragement. The phrase 'what do you think, X?' is one of the simplest things to say, and one of the great keys to good management.

You don't have to fawn over anyone, or care about their trouble and strife (though perhaps you should (also cockney rhyming slang for 'wife')). However, a collegiate atmosphere is the most conducive to maximum progress in my experience, and if you are in a position of seniority it would be sensible to try to foster that.

Post: #5

I think one of the issues is that you're their boss, but you're concerned that you'll be seen as aloof. It's natural that there will be a certain distance between manager and employee. No employee will (or should) be stupid enough to share personal details about what they do outside of work with you. In their mind, if they say something that you don't agree with, they could end up not getting promoted or even fired. Attitudes change when there is a distinct and formal rank difference between someone.

H1N1 is spot on. Encourage people to share their opinions at work and make them feel valued for their skills. You're not going to be their "friend." That's just going to look like an episode of The Office.

Post: #6

Some thoughts:

-Don't shit where you eat, keep it "friendly" with these girls but keep it professional

-H1N1 nails it - make the feel valued and wanted - but LEAD - this is in your title.

-It's okay to shoot the shit with the guys in the office HOWEVER you need to do recon to see if these aren't some lame soy boys. Even so, nothing wrong with keeping it friendly.

-I don't usually see coworkers outside of work, but maybe if we're at a work function aka holiday party then I'll be a bit more loose - sometimes as above, I'll state I'm in a different mode when I'm not working.
-STATE your mode - I'll tell people hey I got shit to do, I'm in the zone aka work mode, when I'm not, you'll know. This is open communication, shows you're serious about work, but understand when to work and play.

Post: #7

My advice is to be cordial and sincerely friendly, but not 'involved'.

There is plenty of safe, sincere small talk about positive shit like vacations and home remodeling without hearing someone out about their marital problems. I have specific coworkers I drink with after work, and even though a few of them push the boundaries on gossip and drama, I stay out of that.

It isn't really weird that people don't connect outside of work. Everyone makes an effort to be friends at work because they're in a confined space and it's not by choice, but that doesn't mean they want it encroaching on their personal time with family or to introduce you to their regular friends. Probably only two or three coworkers have ever become "outside-of-work" friends, and I two of them better jobs when I moved on. Those connections, when you do make them, are valuable, but still be mindful not to give them any ammunition by getting overly familiar.

...and for the love of God, don't worry about "not making a move" on women at the office. That is almost always a disaster, for all you know they're already banging your boss. I've had women literally eat out of my hand and put their head on my shoulder at office parties, just be diplomatic and act like it didn't happen, then proceed to work with them normally.

Post: #8

Thanks a lot for all the answers so far.

Yes, it definitely makes a lot of sense what has been said so far.

H1N1's ideas are very good:

(02-20-2018 08:04 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  If you don't engage them much at work, where you have real cause to discuss the task at hand with them, and seek their input, it is hardly surprising that they see your hyper-friendliness outside work as false or incongruent. You seem to be suggesting that you are not sincerely, regularly interested in their opinions on work matters, and don't invite them to shoulder tasks with you, in an environment where you are by definition united in the pursuit of the same goal. This could easily be interpreted as a lack of respect for their competence, if one wanted to be particularly negative. At the very least, if you are not friendly/helpful/open to being helped in a work environment then why would these people take you seriously socially?

If you want to manage these people better, you should ask their opinions on work matters. You don't have to invite them into your private life, or weep together at the water fountain, but you should give them the opportunity to demonstrate their value, and reciprocate by helping them where you're able. If you are a competent guy, and I don't doubt that you are, people below you will be flattered that you ask their advice, and it will be a great compliment to them to be included in your deliberations. It will almost certainly help you perform better too, as people have a great deal to contribute if they are given the opportunity and the right encouragement. The phrase 'what do you think, X?' is one of the simplest things to say, and one of the great keys to good management.

Yes, I will try that, i.e. seek their input on work matters, I think that is a very good idea.

Just one thing for clarification: I am not the team lead for all the 70 people in the office space, only for a smaller team within the office.

(02-20-2018 09:02 AM)Running Turtles Wrote:  I think one of the issues is that you're their boss, but you're concerned that you'll be seen as aloof. It's natural that there will be a certain distance between manager and employee. No employee will (or should) be stupid enough to share personal details about what they do outside of work with you. In their mind, if they say something that you don't agree with, they could end up not getting promoted or even fired. Attitudes change when there is a distinct and formal rank difference between someone.

Yeah, I get that for the people I'm managing there is gonna be some type of barrier or distance. But as I mentioned above, there are also other people in the office that are not in my team. Also, the environment/ industry I work in is very open minded and casual. For example, several people in the office have been pretty open about the fact that they do drugs at parties (coke). It's nothing of the ordinary really. The boss of the whole office also knows about it. Hooking up with a co-worker would not be a big deal either. So I'm not sure how much that mantra "don't shit where you eat" really applies here. If anything, I think I've actually been too guarded about these things. I.e. I didn't want to reveal too much personal stuff exactly for the reasons mentioned in this thread (not giving others ammunition against me). But I think to some extent I have been too paranoid about it, which also led to me being too aloof/ standoffish towards others. In the States one might need to watch out more, but in Europe things are more relaxed.

This is also very good advice:

(02-20-2018 12:49 PM)kaotic Wrote:  -STATE your mode - I'll tell people hey I got shit to do, I'm in the zone aka work mode, when I'm not, you'll know. This is open communication, shows you're serious about work, but understand when to work and play.

I have actually already started doing that in past few weeks. Just letting other people know that I am aware that I might not be very talkative, and the reason being that I'm just very focused on my work.

But as mentioned above, over the course of the next weeks I will try to seek other coworkers input on work matters and ask them for advice about things. I will make a conscious effort to interact with people more. I actually already started with it today. So far the reactions have been good. I'll see what I can do in the next days.