Post: #26

(02-08-2018 08:17 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  It wasn't like Mike's dad was some old money blue blood extolling the burden of being better than the average man, teaching redpill stuff while appearing blue to fool everyone else. If someone tells in an interview that Michael read stuff like Thomas Hobbes, Machiavelli, 48 Laws of Power, etc. then we can know for sure, but was he really a genius that figured all that shit out on his own? I have a hard time believing that.

Easy, it was his dad. EDIT: thanks to Detroit's comments, totally forgot about Barry Gordy. He had the best to learn from haha.

Probably true about Paul. Ringo thats a no brainer, and widely known and joked about. Compared to the session musicians Quincy worked with at the time(Hendrix for one), the Beatles were the Biebers of their day. Speaking as a Beatles fan thats seen Paul and Ringo live.

Post: #27

One thing I know about Quincy Jones is that he had a 6 year relationship and a daughter with Natassja Kinski who is a long term alcoholic.
If he likes to let rip on how all these people are this and that (and fair play to him, its interesting to read) then its worth bearing in mind that he was the other-half of an addict in a co-dependent relationship/family setting for a long time.

As a Brit, for years the joke about the Beatles was that they were three very talented songwriters and musicians plus Ringo Starr - who was just a very lucky guy. (I don't like the Beatles but Lennon and McCartney especially were a bit special. QJ slating Ringo's playing is like slating Britney Spears' songwriting)

Interestingly Kinski slept with ephebophile Roman Polanski supposedly at age 16.

Post: #28

(02-08-2018 09:12 AM)questor70 Wrote:  The Donna Summer song sounds nothing like Billie Jean. Sounds exactly like what it was, a mashup of Jon Anderson's New Agey self-help mysticism and Donna Summer's new-wave R&B, not MJ's early 80s dance pop. The only reason people will hear similarities now is because of Jones' accusation. There's no way anyone would think the two were related otherwise.

I think he is specifically referring to the bass riff of Billy Jean which is in fact identical to the bass riff at the beginning of the Anderson song. You might need to slow it down a bit to hear it.

Post: #29

Ringo is an appalling singer. He is an adequate drummer, an interesting pocket drummer which worked well with the Beatles, to the point his sound would be fair to be considered unique.

Paul is an interesting bass player, never taught to play bass, he shifted across when Stuart Sutcliffe left and was a guitarist playing bass, as viewed at that time. Being notoriously a pick/plectrum user when everyone used fingers.

So he gas evolved from a bassist playing it wrong, to an innovator of the sound of bass because of what he introduced with his style of play. i.e. "wrong".

Clapton, a personal inspiration of mine but somewhat limited in genres. There's many in the running for greatest of all time, I cant see how Clapton takes it off all the competition.

Post: #30

(02-08-2018 08:17 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Anita Baker's voice is still sexy as fuck. She can sing in my ear all she wants, quit hatin.

Don't know about anyone else, but I wasn't hating on Anita. She was my favorite musical artist from the 80's along with the Talking Heads.

I was just using her to get at Kona.

She was a true original, no one sang like her, moved like her, or expressed emotions like her. I liked her the same way I liked the female vocalists of the forties and fifties, like Dinah Washington, Peggy Lee, June Christy, Julie London, or Lena Horne. She had that intimate way of singing like it was just for you.

She was actually too classy for the 80's.

Better to remember her like this:





Watching this makes me think "Fuck Christina Aguilera."

Post: #31

(02-08-2018 09:59 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  Where does Travis Barker rank in terms of drummers? I've heard wide-ranging opinions on the guy, with some saying he's a legend to others saying he pales in comparison to the greats.

Edit: only asking because I was a huge Blink fan back in their heyday

Quincy thinks Travis Barker sucks and Blink fans are all bitches.

I'm surprised no one has brought up that Pryor and Brando were fags. But I shouldn't be shocked because Hollywood is fucked up.

Post: #32

When people assess Ringo's drumming, they do it through the lens of hindsight. They put Ringo up against drummers who came later, like John Bonham or Keith Moon, and of course Ringo comes up short.

But if you compare Ringo against the drummers of his own era, when he started out, it becomes clear how much he innovated.

A great example is "It's My Party" by Lesley Gore, which was a #1 hit in 1963 that was produced by Quincy Jones. (Let's put aside Jones' big band/jazz background because we're talking Top 40 pop and rock here.)

The drummer hired by Quincy Jones for "It's My Party" is metronomic, bloodless, and rudimentary. His uninspired beat makes this record sound dated. In fact, all the Gore records Jones produced sound more dated than the Beatles records from the same era and a big reason is the stiff session musicians.

And yet the drumming of "It's My Party" was considered state-of-the-art then and is very indicative of that era. Jones wasn't busting on this song's drummer in his interview, though. Maybe he should have been.

What was Ringo doing in '63? He was innovating.

He made the Beatles' first big hit, "Please Please Me," come alive with with his wild rolls and a variety of beats. Most people don't listen carefully to his drumming here because the singers get all the attention, but his drums alone in this song are revolutionary for rock.

Ringo was also bringing his rock solid beat to "Twist And Shout" and "She Loves You," and giving them the drive and propulsion that still blows people away.

In other words, Ringo was paving the way for the Ginger Bakers of the world who would bust on him later.

If Ringo didn't grow as a rock drummer, it's because the Beatles grew more and more pop-oriented and they didn't require a Ginger Baker type. Still he was a lot closer to Baker than Jones' pick for a drummer:

Post: #33

(02-09-2018 07:22 AM)T and A Man Wrote:  Ringo is an appalling singer...

Here's the thing. Technical proficiency should not be the only criterion in judging the artistic merit of a musician.

Most musical genres that celebrate instrumental prowess like jazz, prog-rock, or speed-metal, are mostly appealing to...other musicians (like Quincy Jones). Despite the relatively brief period of the guitar hero from the Cream era through the early 80s shredders, instrumentalism for its own sake really isn't appealing to the average listener. Singing skill, maybe, hence American Idol and The Voice, but not instrumental ability.

What matters is the power of what it is you're trying to say through music. And that can be done without being anywhere near a virtuoso.

Here's an example.

Post: #34

If we're gonna bring up old tunes, I'm gonna weigh in:





Simple. Easy to play. Repetitive. Respect.

Post: #35

Ok, then going through all that, what 'other' criteria should Ringos singing being judged on with respect to artistic merit?

You haven't presented a counter argument, you've just put forward theory.

I don't rate his ability to hold tune, his tenor, his register nor his expression. He has no catalogue of great songs, nor considered a great live act as a vocalist.

A great singer to me is Bruce Dickinson. Do Bruce and Ringo compare in any criterion?

Post: #36

(02-08-2018 08:17 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  What I would like to know is how exactly did Michael Jackson learn how to be so dark triad and Machiavellian? Quincy isn't the first person to say that about Mike. Plenty people said he was a ruthless businessman and hyper competitive. I think Eddie Griffin in that Vlad TV interview said similar stuff. But how did he get like that?

I think this aspect of Michael Jackson is what a lot of people don't know about. He was an insane pedophile but he wasn't stupid. He was an absolutely brilliant image marketer and had a sharp sense of business.

He came up in an era when studio executives could easily fuck you over. Just look at all the golden 70's and 80's musicians who had vast fortunes siphoned away from them by greaseball execs. Yet Michael Jackson thrived in this dog eat dog environment.

The whole story behind how he snaked the Beatles catalogue from the Beatles themselves is kind of amusing too. He completely fucked over Paul McCartney from just learning some things from him in a casual conversation.

Post: #37

This interview proves two important game tenets:
Older guy/younger girl dynamic (and that the age disparity gets more disproportionate the more wealth a guy has)

And that women will risk getting disowned for certain guys.

The Ivanka thing seems true because if he was lying he would of been more vague and not have implicated a specific daughter.

Incase you dont know QJ is a very self improvement oriented guy, his autobiography is up there with Gene Simmons in terms of game insights. Besides game he also discusses his health - he went on the paleo diet during the mid 1980s, which helped him recover from sleep issues he had been suffering from.

And speaking as a music fan, QJs projects were still well-received until he reached his sixties - which is pretty amazing when you consider how youth driven music is, how quickly people tend to be labeled old/washed up/obsolete in the black community especially. (Right now, Pharrell is the only guy in his 40s still making relevant music)

Post: #38

(02-09-2018 01:57 PM)Chowder Head Wrote:  I'm surprised no one has brought up that Pryor and Brando were fags. But I shouldn't be shocked because Hollywood is fucked up.

Everyone knows Brando was bi. He also has like a dozen kids too.

Weird to think that he's one of the most masculine sex symbols of all time (think Streetcar or Wild One).

Post: #39

Hol' up hol' up......Brando was a fag?!

Post: #40

Little fun fact: Quincy Jones's daughter Kidada used to bang the late Tupac. They were even considering getting married.

Post: #41

(02-09-2018 09:39 PM)CincinnatiKid Wrote:  And speaking as a music fan, QJs projects were still well-received until he reached his sixties - which is pretty amazing when you consider how youth driven music is, how quickly people tend to be labeled old/washed up/obsolete in the black community especially. (Right now, Pharrell is the only guy in his 40s still making relevant music)

One can argue that Jay-Z's latest project had some relevance (and he is in his 40's). But then again most of the folks listening to the record might have been 30's & above lol.

Post: #42

Brando whored around with everybody in Hollywood, including a lot of men. I thought this was common knowledge too.

Post: #43

Simple? Best?

Post: #44

(02-10-2018 01:44 AM)flanders Wrote:  Brando whored around with everybody in Hollywood, including a lot of men. I thought this was common knowledge too.

It's not so much Brando being gay/ bi/ everything basically. He was renowned as an 'alien' in Hollywood.

There has been ALOT of talk apparently about him being gay/ bi/ his-own-daughter-Cheyenne in his orientations/orientation.

*(and that playing a role in her later suicide)

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/180492...interview- (Cheyenne's account.)

Its more Richard Pryor (???) - by his own account a fu *ked up man but gay..? Pryor's daughter has come out swinging about this allegation.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/201...rando.html

What bothers me about the interview is Jones (for all his achievements) carrying on like a typical California-residing entertainment industry doyen about how 'woke' he is and how he sees through not just people but also the whole 'religion' thing.
After all, he knew Benito Mussolini's grandson and so he knows secrets about the Catholic Church .

When he also acknowledges >>having a codependent relationship with<< and >>starting a dysfunctional family<< with a chronic alcoholic (Natassja kinski) then I'll give him more credence.

But I guess at the level that he's on its not so much -a train-wreck of a family set-up he co-created- as... "all just energy" ..coming towards him.. and I imagine he could just, screw up his eyes and y'know.. see the patterns around him as it unfolded.

Post: #45

(02-09-2018 09:02 PM)T and A Man Wrote:  Ok, then going through all that, what 'other' criteria should Ringos singing being judged on with respect to artistic merit?

Ringo's singing does one thing really well, and that's convey his charming everyman humility. When he went off-key, it only made you relate to him more. He's friendly. He's approachable. He's a cuddly teddy-bear.

I LOVE operatic rock singers. Dio was my favorite of that lot (RIP) but no musician is all things to all people.

Iron Maiden doesn't have a single song in its whole catalog with the same feel-good vibe as "With a little help from my friends" Iron Maiden fans don't care, but Beatles fans do, which is why not everyone likes the same music.





That humility works sometimes for weightier material, like coming across as a broken sad-sack here.





So he's got a limited range. You use what you've got.