The reason that Europeans are so peaceful today relatively speaking to other peoples on the planet aside from East Asians is because of the change of genetics over 800 years in the making.
Over 800 years from the 12th century onwards the Europeans became less bloodthirsty and homicidal within their own societies as the war on murder commenced.
Quote: And so began the war on murder. From the 12th to 17th centuries, capital punishment became steadily more prevalent. We see this in an increasing willingness to use it not only for murder but also for other crimes (rape, abortion, infanticide, lèse majesté, theft, counterfeiting, etc.). We also see this in the use of ‘exemplary’ punishment: drawing and quartering, breaking on the wheel, and burning. Beginning in the 13th and 14th centuries, we see cases of a murderer being buried alive in a casket placed underneath the victim’s casket (Carbasse, 2011, p. 53).
Then, after the 17th century, the war on murder began to go into reverse. It had been largely won, and public sympathy now shifted to the condemned man. In England, the homicide rate fell by over a hundred-fold between 1300 and 1900 (Eisner, 2001). Europeans were becoming kinder and gentler, and this pacification of social relations would make possible much of what we call modernity: the expansion of the market economy; a growing freedom to live among total strangers; the rise of the individual as an autonomous, self-maximizing being, and so on.
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The result being: [2]
This change in behavior is also observed in Russian experiments that removed the most violent and aggressive foxes from the breeding pool:
This has occurred to a larger extent ever since humans have lived in civilizations:
Quote:The past 200,000 years of human cultural evolution have witnessed the persistent establishment of behaviors involving innovation, planning depth, and abstract and symbolic thought, or what has been called “behavioral modernity.” Demographic models based on increased human population density from the late Pleistocene onward have been increasingly invoked to understand the emergence of behavioral modernity. However, high levels of social tolerance, as seen among living humans, are a necessary prerequisite to life at higher population densities and to the kinds of cooperative cultural behaviors essential to these demographic models. Here we provide data on craniofacial feminization (reduction in average brow ridge projection and shortening of the upper facial skeleton) in Homo sapiens from the Middle Pleistocene to recent times. We argue that temporal changes in human craniofacial morphology reflect reductions in average androgen reactivity (lower levels of adult circulating testosterone or reduced androgen receptor densities), which in turn reflect the evolution of enhanced social tolerance since the Middle Pleistocene.
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Which seems to be the result of the suppression of anti-social behavior. And subsequent removal of such humans from the gene pool ever since the formation of the state.
Evidence of pacification can also be observed by the levels of homicide per capita state vs non-state: [4]
Low IQ coupled with low impulse control = sociopathy.
Those guys are even easy to catch. They get into crime at a young age. Our resident crime psychologist IKE (where is he), always said they should lock up these obvious sociopaths for many years - for their first violent crime. Instead, the justice system allows them to grow up, father a child or two, then they do something really heinous and only then are they locked up for good.
-The genetic factor is grossly overplayed. Look at Australia and other places founded as penal colonies, you have a population with a very high preponderance of criminal genes, yet you also have very low crime rates.
-The Max Roser study of violent death rates above doesn't seem to incorporate the world war culls, revolutionary and communist culls. With this in mind, that chart above is completely preposterous.
Wars aren't a modern phenomenon in Europe, though there were periods of peace. Another argument against genetics as primary driver is the fact that former soldiers will bring violence into society as they acquire lower personal aversion to extreme violence (not talking about the average soldier here, but the more marginal elements). For example, MS13 gang violence is a direct consequence of the civil wars and death squad culture in Central America.
“Nothing is more useful than to look upon the world as it really is.”
01-23-2018 11:59 AM
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(01-23-2018 11:59 AM)911 Wrote: -The genetic factor is grossly overplayed. Look at Australia and other places founded as penal colonies, you have a population with a very high preponderance of criminal genes, yet you also have very low crime rates.
Most were political prisoners and guys convicted of minor crimes. Anything more serious got the death penalty. Alot of prisoners were sent to America as well.
Quote:Wars aren't a modern phenomenon in Europe, though there were periods of peace. Another argument against genetics as primary driver is the fact that former soldiers will bring violence into society as they acquire lower personal aversion to extreme violence (not talking about the average soldier here, but the more marginal elements).
You are not wrong about the fact that wars haven't really diminished. In fact its not violence per se that is diminished by executions but unorganized violence. Private vendettas and serial killings. War requires a different mindset to taking personal revenge against a personal enemy.
Quote:The Max Roser study of violent death rates above doesn't seem to incorporate the world war culls, revolutionary and communist culls. With this in mind, that chart above is completely preposterous.
I think the people that compiled the statistics are aware of that. Rather it only documents cases that are considered murder perpetrated by non-state actors. Serial killings and killings as a result of private vendettas for example.
Quote:For example, MS13 gang violence is a direct consequence of the civil wars and death squad culture in Central America.
Due also to the fact that unlike the brigands of Europe from 12th century onwards they weren't put to death but deported to El Salvador.
Enabling them to take over territory from the weakened government and enacting terror on the populace thereby facilitating in many ways more migration towards the United States. Dumping problems on others came back to bite.
In addition prison breeds prison gangs and more worse criminals as far as the US justice system is concerned. Security threat incubators. This is why I advocate that beatings,restitutions and executions replace prison. I recommend this article by one of the manosphere bloggers.
And as Leonard D Neubache advocates in one of his posts. Every person even in jail(death row and holding for trial) should only have access to security guards and pastors. Every prisoner is to be an atomized individual lest they organize into a gang as they currently do now.
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2018 08:08 AM by infowarrior1.)
(01-23-2018 11:59 AM)911 Wrote: -The genetic factor is grossly overplayed. Look at Australia and other places founded as penal colonies, you have a population with a very high preponderance of criminal genes, yet you also have very low crime rates.
Most were political prisoners and guys convicted of minor crimes. Anything more serious got the death penalty. Alot of prisoners were sent to America as well.
Convict colonisation was only big in the early days in any case. I doubt many current Australians could trace their roots back to convict stock.
(01-23-2018 11:59 AM)911 Wrote: -The genetic factor is grossly overplayed. Look at Australia and other places founded as penal colonies, you have a population with a very high preponderance of criminal genes, yet you also have very low crime rates.
Most were political prisoners and guys convicted of minor crimes. Anything more serious got the death penalty. Alot of prisoners were sent to America as well.
Convict colonisation was only big in the early days in any case. I doubt many current Australians could trace their roots back to convict stock.
I would expect many of those who are descended from convicts to have a high incidence of petty crime compared to the rest of the population.
01-24-2018 08:06 AM
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(01-24-2018 08:06 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote: I would expect many of those who are descended from convicts to have a high incidence of petty crime compared to the rest of the population.
I don't really think that was a serious comment...but just in case it was, here's an Australian source you might like to read:
Although genetic explanations for criminal behaviour have been circulated since the emergence of modern criminology in the 1700s, until recently, there has not been the scientific evidence to substantiate or refute any claims.
01-24-2018 07:13 PM
infowarrior1
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(01-24-2018 08:06 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote: I would expect many of those who are descended from convicts to have a high incidence of petty crime compared to the rest of the population.
I don't really think that was a serious comment...but just in case it was, here's an Australian source you might like to read:
Although genetic explanations for criminal behaviour have been circulated since the emergence of modern criminology in the 1700s, until recently, there has not been the scientific evidence to substantiate or refute any claims.
What is your alternative explanation for the overall decline in murder homicides?
(01-25-2018 06:47 PM)Cane Toad Wrote: What is your alternative explanation for the overall decline in murder homicides?
Your words..."This is why I advocate that beatings,restitutions and executions replace prison"
Dude, are you a full on Muslim guy? Stone women, throw gays off the roof, chop off hands etc..along with your beatings, restitutions and executions.
In answer to your initial question...maybe the current justice system is a step above a primitive cycle of violence and retribution.
Singapore has the death penalty and caning for more petty crimes. Do you say that Singapore is a primitive Muslim society?
I'd say the prison rapes and long term restriction on liberty is far worse and more barbaric along with a criminal record that prevents them from reintegrating into society. In fact modern prison has a high reoffending rate.
That and the growth of criminal gangs in prison who also likewise run the street gangs.
Than caning on the buttocks for graffiti and a firing squad for serial killers.
In fact the government is what prevented the cycles in revenge in the 1st place. Who dares take revenge against the government in history for enacting justice? And how did the government fare?
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2018 11:09 PM by infowarrior1.)
01-26-2018 11:07 PM
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(01-23-2018 11:59 AM)911 Wrote: -The genetic factor is grossly overplayed. Look at Australia and other places founded as penal colonies, you have a population with a very high preponderance of criminal genes, yet you also have very low crime rates.
Most were political prisoners and guys convicted of minor crimes. Anything more serious got the death penalty. Alot of prisoners were sent to America as well.
Convict colonisation was only big in the early days in any case. I doubt many current Australians could trace their roots back to convict stock.
In addition what went for "convict" back then was a 15yo who stole a loaf of bread because he was hungry or someone who said something nasty about the king. The British back then were famous for even enslaving Scots/Irish for merely having outstanding debts to the crown. Their soldiers were more psychopathic than the ones they imprisoned.
But I agree with 911, that the factor of genetic psychopathy is overstated.
Aggression can be inherited, but aggression that is controlled is highly useful in terms of channeling the energy into benevolent streams.
Low IQ is more of a problem, but the middle ages were mostly defined by severe lack of nourishment.
In addition only part of the population - more the dumb psychopaths were taken out of the gene pool.
What had far more influence on humanity's development in Europe was the humble potato:
Right after the introduction the hitherto way too short Europeans (hunting was often forbidden then by the aristocracy) began to be finally well-nourished, IQs began to rise, average height was going up after having been going down for roughly 1000 years. Even the medieval warming period around the year 1000 when Greenland was actually green - it did not help.
Crops like the potato, then corn and tomato - it helped tremendously to rejuvenate Europe and usher in modern civilization.
It was not the gruesome murder of the low-tier sociopaths out there - that was just an additional k-selection tool.
(01-27-2018 12:55 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote: Aggression can be inherited,
Bullshit, it is socialised.
Yeah right - keep telling yourself that a bulldog has the same aggressive potential as the corgie.
The same goes on with humans - expression of aggression is socialized and controlled through the lens of each individual.
Aggressive potential, the amount of hormones flooding your system in anger - that is highly genetic. There are men out there who need 4 blokes to hold them down in anger, because of enormous spikes in hormones combined with huge strength. A choleric usually fathers a choleric son in temperament, but it is all about the control of it all.
If aggressive potential is not inherited, then men are not more aggressive than women - and we are.
Eight hundred years is a blip in time when you're talking about a trait (pacification) becoming established in a gene pool. Not buying it as a major influence. Cultural forces, such as Christianity, probably had a much more profound impact.
(01-27-2018 07:59 AM)MMM Wrote: Eight hundred years is a blip in time when you're talking about a trait (pacification) becoming established in a gene pool. Not buying it as a major influence. Cultural forces, such as Christianity, probably had a much more profound impact.
I'd agree with you were it not for the silver fox experiment that demonstrates the possibility of pacification over a short time period. Check out the video I embedded on the silver fox experiment.
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