Post: #26

I've coached sub-juniors and juniors in powerlifting for a while. Many of them don't seem to train that hard at first until they've got a taste of competition, then it's a constant quest to beat their PBs.

Post: #27

A little PCP in the Gatorade couldn't hurt

Post: #28

I went about as far as you can go in the great sport of wrestling and have beaten guys that were former medalists and I was briefly on the US National team. I was a resident athlete at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs.

I wrestled internationally many times and was on the olympic ladder pretty high up.

Wrestling is set up for failure.

It's hard to learn and hard to get good at. Everyone has to have their ass kicked for years before they can hope to get halfway decent.

If that wasn't bad enough, no one could give a shit about the sport. It isn't glamourous, it's barely hung on as a sport for decades. I remember looking in the stands one year at University Nationals at Northwestern U after finishing second and thinking it was so sad that all these epic battles were taking place and no one was really there to watch them.

Your team has got to be conditioned and had got to drill proper technique religiously to where moves come reflexively and that means situational drilling over and over and over. Chain wrestling and set ups and more drilling.

One thing I hated but knew was really good was doing something called a "grind match" where you literally wrestled for 30 mins (starting out) until you could wrestle for 2 hours.

I fucking hated that but it trained your mind and 6 minutes no longer seemed like a long time.

What will motivate your team is a shift in mindset from "we suck" or "we are not very good" is an appreciation for going to battle win or lose.

If you can make this a FUN experience they appreciate for what it umistakably is, a time of extreme character building and self discovery, they will catch a fire and be motivated.

Yelling at them and telling them to toughen up won't get you very far (although it has it's place).

Themes I'd be pounding into their heads are the life lessons that come from the sport.

The harder you work, the more success you'll have.

I'd challenge them all the time "Is this breaking you? Are these pushups going to make you quit? I don't know you guys aren't sounding too convincing" etc

There is an awesome video of the story of Dan Gable who had an unbelievable work ethic and won the 1972 Olympics without having a point scored on him.

He won every college match except his final match against Larry Owens.

How he dealt with adversity and disappointment was amazing, it also follows the Iowa Hawkeyes through one of their most brilliant seasons where the Brands brothers and the Steiners along with a lot of other future badasses deal with their own hardships.

Wrestling is a humbling and character building sport, it's something your guys will always take with them if you can get them to commit to 3-4 months of training hard as fuck.

Post: #29

(12-04-2017 10:20 PM)Kona Wrote:  https://redraidernation.wordpress.com/20...-haka/amp/

Maybe that helps.

Kahuku jv kids. Their varsity is usually ranked nationally. Just a really good program.

What kind weight training facilities you have?

Maybe getting some interteam competition going there will help.

Aloha!

Kona is on the money here and really underselling this idea.

Granted it is usually the rugby team that does the Haka, but New Zelanders are definitely onto something here.









But more on point, high school guys can really get into this sort of thing too,





fast forward to 45 seconds in

Post: #30

(12-05-2017 03:21 PM)Jones Wrote:  When I saw "Warrior Spirit" and "Wrestling"...



THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR!!!!

Thank you so much for reminding me about the Ultimate Warrior. Have you kids watch these everyday before practice. (skip to 3:55)

Post: #31

(12-06-2017 01:11 AM)Fisto Wrote:  I went about as far as you can go in the great sport of wrestling and have beaten guys that were former medalists and I was briefly on the US National team. I was a resident athlete at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs.

I wrestled internationally many times and was on the olympic ladder pretty high up.

Note to self: never piss off Fisto again.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #32

We're cool man!

Post: #33

(12-05-2017 02:22 AM)Enigma Wrote:  Also, banging their moms may put some extra fight into 'em.

Great ideas, over all. But with this last one you nailed it perfectly and showed you know me much too well, Enigma. hahaha

If there's one worth getting my 8 seconds on, you better believe I'll do what I can.

(12-05-2017 04:06 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I think a lot of it also boils down a severe lack of multiple male child households. There are a lot of only-children and a lot of singular-male-multiple-female child households due to people having kids later in life.

You're right that kids these days have a long way to go. That's definitely what I'm observing as I interact with teenagers more.

That being said, we talk a lot on this forum about what's wrong with society and especially with the young males we are raising. Maybe it's time for more of us to start getting out into the community and instilling some old school principles directly into these kids ourselves and bringing change by being better leaders to our youth.

Someone has to do it - why not us?

I myself came from a single mother home. These kids have gotten soft and weak and nervous, but they still have the same basic genes as our forefathers so they are not beyond repair.

But it's up to older men to step to the plate and show them how it's done.

A few of you guys also mentioned that it sounds like these kids just came in because they thought they had to pick a sport. Honestly, I don't really care what brought them to the mat to begin with.

I feel like it's our job to get them to want to stay there now that they are there.

I always appreciate your input, Leonard. And I appreciate the input of everyone who posted here trying to help. But as much as the state of young males bothers me as much as it does the rest of you, in this particular case I want to focus on what to do about it on the ground level.

Quote:I find it extremely rare that a young man is capable of natural aggression unless he grew up with a brother within 3 years of his own age.

I have to say, I don't know about that...

Some of the kids I knew who were only kids growing up were actually the toughest guys around.

I do think there's a lot of value in siblings and I get what you mean, but I saw and continue to see (though overall less so far) plenty lone children that have the spirit in them that I was referring to in the OP.

(12-05-2017 07:37 AM)realologist Wrote:  And the school size shouldn't be an issue. I'm from Michigan and toughest wrestlers almost always came from small towns.

Edit: added content

Thank you for this reminder. You're absolutely right and I shouldn't use that as an excuse.

We need to get tougher kids on the team in the future, and we need to create a stronger, more intense wrestling culture if we want the program to survive at this school.

But there's no reason we can't create a legacy at a school of this size, and in fact, one might argue it could be easier at a school like this because such a small student body is looking for something to be proud of.

Not to mention that our football team actually won some championships this year.

Moving forward, I'll delete this excuse out of my mind.

(12-05-2017 08:23 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  What youre describing sounds like a lack of the right "culture"

You're absolutely right, and that's where we're focusing a lot of our energy right now.

I'm starting to get more optimistic about at least the long-term prospects of this team. All three of us coaches are working together very nicely, and the momentum is building - every single practice has been better than the last.

Yesterday one kid didn't show up to practice. He's one of the newbs that actually did pretty damn decent at his first tournament and I see some real potential in him.

Anyhow, I showed up today and he was looking a bit down. Pulled him aside outside the room and asked what was wrong and he started telling me that he had gotten drunk a couple days before after school and had missed school and then practice because of it. This kid doesn't strike me as a troublemaker - very intelligent and good at school. You could see he was beating himself up really bad about it and his mother was upset about it but had forced him to come to practice.

Anyhow, he implied to me at this point that he was thinking of quitting. He's got SATs coming up and he wants to focus on that. He doesn't mind the conditioning and the wrestling is fun but he's been struggling to pull himself to practice and can't rationalize putting 13 hours a week into it. He's never done any other sports and they just aren't for him.

Blah blah blah blah excuses excuses

Keep in mind that me and this kid spent a lot of time together at his first tournament. He was having a blast and I know he was.

I didn't bitch at him. I didn't guilt trip him about missing practice or lecture him on the drinking (as if I'm one to talk - hell, I got drunk at wrestling tournaments a few times).

I just said (keep in mind he's highly intelligent and mature), "Look, number one, alcohol is a depressant. For a day or two, maybe three, after getting wasted, things look a little different and you get pessimistic and down about shit. Give some time to let your head clear before you make any big decisions and you might see it in a new light."

Then I said to him, "Man, I'll tell you right now, wrestling is not just any sport. This is a unique and special sport, and it will push you to your limits and turn you into a different kind of person. We're not just teaching you to win here - we're making you into a new man. And I've never met one single person that wrestled for at least a year that didn't remember that experience and keep going back to it for the rest of their life. This is something that will always stick with you and be a part of who you are. I just want you to think about that a bit.

One more thing. Coach and I aren't just here to help you guys win more matches this year. We're also committed to building a new culture of wrestling at this school, something that everyone in this community can be proud of. And this is your chance to be a part of that.

Just hang around a bit and think it over."

After I went back in the room he spent some time talking with the head coach. Not sure what transpired between them, but whatever it was, the kid ended up coming back in the wrestling room and he sat there studying for his SATs or something like that while the rest practiced. That's what it looked like - not sure exactly what kind of arrangement him and the coach came to, but I do know he's not making the next tournament because of his test anyways, so maybe he's giving him a bit of a pass.

Anyhow, today we were really working some of our new ideas in and really drilling the kids and kicking their asses more than we have before. It started to look like practice the way that I remember it. I've been throwing in more inspirational talks while they're exercising and getting them working more in unison.

And several times I looked up and saw this kid was sitting there watching intently with this new, slightly excited and curious look on his face.

Just before practice ended he walked by me and he had this real fire in his eye and just said to me with a smile on his face, "I'm staying." And then he walked out the door.

Point of this story - I think we're getting somewhere.

(12-05-2017 01:59 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  There is a lot you can do. You're an inspirational guy, BB.

Thank you very much.

Quote:First and foremost you can give these children your enthusiasm. I had a boxing coach once who'd been a national champ, and there's pretty much no sacrifice I wouldn't have made for him. He gave me his time, and his enthusiasm, and whilst I'd always loved boxing and trained hard anyway, starting to train with him was a sea change in my training and performance. He really loved the sport; that sincerity shone through, and motivated all of us who trained under him to work harder and be better, tougher fighters. You can do the same for these kids. They'll want to impress you and earn your approval, because you're that kind of guy, and you can use that to produce a great team. If you love wrestling, and love coaching it, then these kids will come to love you and want your respect as time goes on.

I do feel like I'm starting to take on that kind of role and building real relationships with some of the guys already. It will take time, obviously, but I think we're on our way.

Quote:That said, it's important to remember that competition is the true gauge of training and progress. Not everyone who is a beast in the gym is a beast come competition time. I am a pretty good natured and easy going guy in general life, it takes a lot to make me aggressive, and I never much cared for competition unless it mattered - for that reason I was pretty hopeless in sparring relative to competition. I was also conscious of not wanting to hurt my sparring partners (to the extent that I could have). But when it came time to be matched up against a stranger, fighting for real, I was a totally different person with a vicious streak and a real killer instinct.

Good things to think about - I hadn't really considered it that way.

(12-05-2017 02:56 PM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  We would add in the goofy pro-wrestling stuff like that to keep it fun, do a couple crazy moves in practice to fuck around, or wear funny costumes to the weigh-ins, dressed like other wrestlers or whatever to keep the team spirit high.

haha Funny. We actually have a set of masks hanging on the wall that one of the captains brought home from a trip to Mexico last year. Some look like superhero masks or pro wrestling get-ups.

They're not very easy to see out of so I actually had the idea of having kids put them on when sparring every once in a while as a way to get a better sense of their weight distribution.

Quote:We had some seriously old school coaches who wouldn't mind jumping in the ring and mixing it up, and didn't give a fuck about anything but making us badasses. You've got to make them forget everything they know and strip them down until all they know is that grind and drive to fight for themselves & the TEAM. When all that's LEFT is the warrior spirit.

Yeah, I definitely get out there with them. I've been taking it easy this past week and doing more supervising because I've been fasting the past 7 days, but think I'll be done in 3 more. I was going to go for 20 days, but I just don't have the energy to train as hard as I want to with them, and I want to be there 100%, not just be a supervisor like some coaches do.

Now that they've got a taste of competition going to start challenging some of the bigger guys personally in practice more.

Also agree with breaking them down. Our new coach did a fantastic job of that today.

(12-05-2017 03:21 PM)Jones Wrote:  Aside: I want to join a wrestling club, but there's none in my city. It's something to look starting up in the new year. I have next to no experience with amateur wrestling myself.

I'm looking to get into some adult wrestling myself.

We have some guys who meet to train up in a bigger town north of here in the spring, but I hear competition is a bit weak unless you travel out of town for tourneys.

I think if you want to get after it, your best bet is put your feelers out for men in your community with a solid wrestling background and see if they want to meet and train with you. Don't be shy to be the one to get it going just because you're inexperienced. Start with two guys and start inviting more.

As others have put out in this thread already, wrestlers really are a different kind of person, and knowing that, most are ready and eager to teach a new guy the ropes if he really wants to get on a mat and roll around.

Once you get some skills and conditioning going, you may have to travel out of town to tournaments to compete. Even if you don't compete it's a great skill to have - not just for the character building but it's also a solid self defense system. I can tell you that over the years I did way more scrapping than I should have and knowing how to wrestle made all the difference in the world.

You can often even take someone who's just as strong and tough as you and make them look like a total bitch once you know what you're doing. Certainly not promoting going out and getting in fights, but if you ever run into a mugger or a burglar, not a bad skillset to have on your side at all.

(12-06-2017 01:11 AM)Fisto Wrote:  I went about as far as you can go in the great sport of wrestling and have beaten guys that were former medalists and I was briefly on the US National team. I was a resident athlete at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs.

I wrestled internationally many times and was on the olympic ladder pretty high up.

Wrestling is set up for failure.[...]

Fisto, you're the first person I thought of when I started up with this, and sure as hell wish you were still here! haha In awe of your experience, man, and I read every word you wrote carefully - all of it rings very true.

Very difficult, unglamorous sport, but so worth it. Our society needs more of it, in my opinion, and it's worth preserving.

May hit you up via LINE with a question from time to time and I'll definitely check out those resources you mentioned.

(12-06-2017 04:27 PM)eradicator Wrote:  Kona is on the money here and really underselling this idea.

Granted it is usually the rugby team that does the Haka, but New Zelanders are definitely onto something here. [...]

Here's my question.

I fucking love the Haka...

But in these days of PC bullshit, am I going to have a bunch of crybabies breathing down my neck about cultural appropriation?

This is an all-white school - not only are their no New Zealanders on the team, I don't think there is one single non-white kid on the team.

And this area is thick with fucking liberals.

I would love to capture the spirit of the Haka in one way or another. But completely copying it feels like drama in these times, and while I wish it weren't, I don't really want or need any drama either.

(12-06-2017 05:54 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  Note to self: never piss off Fisto again.

This is kind of an unwritten rule of the forum. Or it should be haha.

To be honest, Fisto was underselling his credentials in that post. He is one helluva a man on many levels. I tend to be ballsier than I should be at times, but he is one guy I most definitely would not want to mess with.

An asset to the forum. And not just for being a beast either.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #34

I'll go out on a limb and say so long as you do it respectfully, and it's clear you are not mocking the native New Zelanders, it should be fine. If any of your kids are talking about the dumb dance they did at school etc, then that could lead to trouble. Look at the New Zealand rugby team, it is all white men(though at least they are from New Zealand).

What do the Aussies and kiwis on the board think?

Post: #35

I was talking to my Dad the other day and he was telling me about when he was an undergrad in college in the 1950s. He was a gymnast. Like most of the gymnasts at his school, he was also a cheerleader for the football team because they had to do a lot flips and stuff like that as part of the routines. He told me that the players on the football team were hard core; practicing most of the day for six days a week, playing through injuries, and generally acting like football was the center of the life.

My dad's school was a small southern university that now plays in Division 1AA (FCS). In the 1950s, before colleges were divided up into the different levels they are now, there were hardly any bowl games and no national playoffs. So, the only thing those guys were playing for was the championship of their small conference that no one outside their two-state region gave a crap about. The two professional football leagues at that time likely only sent scouts to look at the top one or two players in the entire conference and ignored all the rest. Anyway, pro football barely paid anything at that time, so wasn't a lucrative career option for most college players.

I asked my Dad, "So, these players treated the season like the most important thing in their lives even though it really meant nothing outside of the state?" He said, "Yes, it was really important to them, and they likely still talk about how important it was to this day, even though they're all in their 70s or 80s now."

Like you said, this sporting and school spirit seems to have gotten lost with this generation. Hopefully, with the swing in the culture wars typified by the recent US general election and your efforts, that will change.

Post: #36

Solid watch here - it's a made-for-TV so not as good a documentary as it could be but still well worth it, even if wrestling is not your thing.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #37

I wrestled in middle school and high school. I was varsity every year in high school and qualified for state in a pretty competitive and respectable state for collegiate wrestling. But I was never elite. I didn't have the killer instinct in my wrestling years.

I got much more of a killer instinct from Kung Fu, where we trained killing techniques and with the mentality to kill as fast and efficiently as possible. Now since Kung Fu I've done Muay Thai and boxing and am more of a believer in this approach to fighting for pure practicality (meaning less flair and flourish, just pure, raw, and simple techniques that get truly mastered).

Now coaching kids in wrestling you won't be doing any hitting, but I can think of some Kung Fu and boxing drills that could be adapted for wrestling.

I remember practicing sprawls and taking shots many times over and over at the blow of a whistle. I think a better drill would be for partners to face off, and have a competition between the two to see who hits the matt faster on the sprawl, or who comes up faster on the single leg shot. So each repetition is a sincere attempt at being better than the previous.

In Kung Fu especially but also in boxing practitioners learn how to not telegraph their strikes or moves. Before the untrained person throws a punch they usually have a dozen signs a split-second before, like the eyes widening, should tensing, hand twitching, and other peculiar things unique to each person. These are effectively trained out when faced off with a partner, in a competition/game to see if one person can hit the target or the other can move the target out of the way. This idea could be adapted to wrestling. Sure you probably already have them partnered up with one shooting and the other sprawling, and taking turns. But have them totally still, neutral body positions, and at a precise distance from each other. Maybe with a particular pair of partners the sprawler has the advantage, so then next time the shooter can start in a slightly different, lower position (closer to taking the shot). This would be akin to the striker moving closer to the partner holding the target because they cannot hit it fast enough from further away.

Hopefully this makes sense. These are just a couple of ideas that pop in my mind, and someone with a fair bit of wrestling experience and other combat sport and art experience, for what they're worth.

Post: #38

Man, what an exciting day today. Wrestled our second tournament of the season. Hauled our sleeping bags in and slept right in the gym last night like we used to do back in the day - what a trip down memory lane that was. There was some whining here and there about it initially but in the end they had a blast and it was a good bonding experience for the team. I busted out a set of pushups before bed and then again right when I jumped out to send a signal that there's another way to wake up besides quivering in your blanket wishing you were still sleeping...

I'm getting into my groove a bit, and now that I remember more about the sport and what to tell my wrestlers, as well as developing relationships with them, I'm becoming a lot more vocal on the corner of the mat. And since I'm a lot louder than the head coach and the kids really seem to respond to me, he kind of lets me do a good deal of the talking - though I listen to what he's saying too and help get the message across.

Our two good guys cleaned up, of course, and the rest took a lot of losses as to be expected for flabby newbs, but man, I'm seeing such a huge change in these kids based on the stuff we've been working. They are fighting HARD out there. I was really pushing the aggression aspect in every match and making them come at their opponents hard. And they were listening.

One kid was actually afraid to hurt people...fucking ridiculous and not the first time he brought it up, but his was his first actual tourney and we broke through it.

I told him that even though wrestling is aggressive it's a gentleman's sport and none of it is personal, and how I used to approach my opponents in the stands before meeting them on the mat and shake their hand and introduce myself, maybe shoot the shit. And then go out and wrestle hard. "Every single one of these guys signed up to be here, I told him. It's not like you're attacking some kid at school that doesn't want to fight or something, and as soon as someone does start getting hurt, it gets stopped anyways."

He liked this idea of breaking the ice with his opponent beforehand and it seemed to help him get over his resistance to playing hard.

What was even more impressive, though, was their refusal to give up even when getting smashed around and breathless with all odds against them. If you've ever wrestled you've seen how new guys are often losing air or getting exhausted and they just up and quit to have the match be over and done with. We had absolutely zero of that going on, with every single one leaving their heart out there.

In fact, the head ref, who was a real cold bastard calling out every single coach on every slightest indiscretion throughout the day, actually approached me and my coach near the end and shook both our hands and said, "I just want to say what an amazing job you guys are doing with this team of new guys. Not only were they all super respectful and polite, but I didn't see one single kid give up in his match - every single one battled it out until the very end and left everything out there. And they're all showing strong signs of getting good too. You're going to have a really good team here down the road."

Hell, we even had a damn girl get a pin and it was only her second tournament ever. I know, I know - I think it's fucking ridiculous girls are allowed to wrestle against boys in high school. Shit used to piss me off when I was a kid and I threw a girl in a Saturday Night Ride once because I was so resentful that I had to wrestle her - for the unitiated, it's a pin that basically spreadeagles your opponent while you're on top of them with your back arched almost like you're drilling them on a Saturday night, of course (got dirty looks the rest of the day haha). So yeah, don't really support girls wrestling.

But what can you do? Still had to admire her fight, and most don't really show up expecting to rack a bunch of wins or anything. Also, she's got a little brother in the 8th grade that was there and he's fired up to wrestle next year and I got a chance to talk with him a bit - hell, he was shadowing me for half the tournament. He's got some feminine mannerisms, likely in part to his older sister and beta father, but he's bursting with energy and confidence, has a real fire in his eye, and is chomping at the bit to start wrestling. Impressive eagerness for sure.

I've got at least two guys I'm talking with about getting started on a serious weight lifting program outside of practice, which will be more of a beginner routine during the season but then become a strength program for the off-season. I'm really pushing the idea to them that this is a long-term game plan and that if they follow the instructions I give them they can really come back next year with some serious upper body strength and start crushing some fools.

One is a freshman and he's already won three matches in his first two tournaments. I mean, I was getting wins coming out of the gate as a freshman but I also had a lineup of older, seasoned guys ahead of me to show me the ropes and was a regular lifter. In contrast, this team here was so close to dying last year it was being held together by a wrestling mom, and now is composed of all newbs with two completely inexperienced coaches - I gotta say he's doing good taking all that into account.

I like that this kid's eyes actually get gleaming when I talk to him about preparing year by year for what will go down when he is a senior - as opposed to acting like that sounds like a long dreary road. He seems excited about it, and better yet, he's improving with each and every practice and competition. I get the sense that he sees this is a long uphill climb and that the light is far down the tunnel and he doesn't seem to mind that one bit.

I actually wrestled with his uncle, and his uncle was a stud, so there are some good genes in there.

Other than some tears from one of the girls, I've yet to see one kid get overly-emotional about a loss. I still feel like we're working with some weaker, softer material here, but they seem to be getting on board with the shit we've been drilling into them. All in all, we still have a long way to go, but things look to be pointed in the right direction.

I'm glad their intensity is picking up because we're planning to drill them harder next week than we did last week for sure.

Former member OG Norcal actually came out to catch up with me at the tournament, so that was cool. He knew a lot of the MMA guys that were wandering around and introduced me to some of the other coaches and fathers of wrestlers on other teams.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #39

(12-04-2017 09:47 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I recently started helping coach a high school wrestling team.

These kids are mostly new, so I don't expect a ton out of them this year, and while I enjoy the shit out of it, I can't help but be frustrated simply by their lack of intensity on the mat. I remember when we wrestled in high school we really had the fire. We'd slap ourselves in the face if that's what it took to bring it up a notch before we went out to roll and try to crossface someone's nose off if he was putting up enough of a fight.

I remember some of us being warned constantly in tournaments to tone down the aggression, but fuck, it's wrestling, so at least we were aggressive. In our day, it was not entirely uncommon for guys to almost end up actually fighting each other in practice or their opponent in a match - that behavior was not encouraged, obviously, but when you throw a bunch of tough, competitive kids out there to battle like that it just happens sooner or later.

I'm sure you know what's coming. Kids these days just lack that warrior spirit.

Out of 12 kids, I'd say two manage to show it at all. The second best guy on the team is very skilled but even he doesn't have that kind of intensity - he's placing high in tournaments but with a bit of fire he could be crushing it. The only one I could see getting scary on a mat is the team captain and admittedly he's a stud and may make it to state, but it doesn't seem to be rubbing off on the others in the slightest - it's like they just see him as a different type of creature than they are.

I'm new to this coaching thing but so is the head coach and he's an old buddy, so he's willing to try out my ideas. If anyone has experience with this type of setting and how to get in these kids' heads and psyche them up I'd love some tips.

There's a lot I can help them with otherwise, but this is simply an issue I don't understand. I always had that fire in myself from a young age, and of course I had my weak moments like anyone, but for the most part I didn't take shit from anyone. And in sports I always brought it hard. Even if I hadn't been like that naturally, my teammates would have constantly been pushing me to get rowdy when it was game time.

Today's boys are just too damn soft. I swear with most of these kids if someone walked up to them and punched them in the face they'd just stand there looking bewildered. We have one light heavyweight who doesn't want to sprawl when people shoot in on him because he's afraid of hurting them. I don't even know what to say to that...

I'd like to help them with it even if they don't have the potential to excel at the sport - every man should have a little bit of fight in his veins.

Any ideas?

When there is no snow I coach another sport at a weathly private school and the hardest thing has been trying to instill some fight and agression into the kids when they play against other teams.

I've done a lot with them about learning that in order to be competitive, first you have to get into the game. In order to be able to play with the ball, first you have to win control of the ball.

It's been a long road but mostly I use and encouraging approach when I see something agressive I like I praise them and I tell the boys that they won't get a bad word from me as long as I see them competing for the ball.

I often give them encouraging speeches about how they'll have to compete in life for anything they really want, even if they are trust fund kids.

These kids are all rich, want for nothing and so it's a very interesting question about how to install a will to compete in 1%ers.

Your personal level of intensity and getting to know the kids over time helps here also.

Post: #40

I am beyond fucking disgusted right now.

Not just with the state of this sport but the actions of the head coach of this team, nearly a lifelong friend of mine and a helluva beast of a man to boot.

We brought the kids down to this tournament that used to be kind of a big deal thinking all these teams were going to be there. Come to find out he hadn't done his homework and hardly anyone had come this year, and it's the last year they're even going to hold this tournament.

Okay, so what, no big deal - we only had a handful of kids wrestling anyhow due to some siblings that were off on a Christmas trip, some injuries, and a really sick kid. The newest ones with potential were mostly gone. We're already down there, so hey, let's make a day of it and get our other newbs some experience.

Since there were hardly any wrestlers there, they just set up it up so everyone at least got four matches for the day - even if they lost every match. Sham of a tournament, but who cares - it's like one big practice competition and lord knows some of them need it. I'm thinking it's all in good fun.

Our two good guys easily crush everyone in their weight class, even though one of them even had to go up a weight class to help make the brackets work. No surprise. I almost feel bad for them because the whole thing is so easy.

One second-year wrestler who'd never won before got his first pin, using a specific move we'd spent a lot of time on over the week, so that was encouraging to see that pay off and the kid's face really lit up coming off that win. Better yet, it wasn't a fluke - you could see he was wrestling at an entire new level the whole day and maybe was finally a breakthrough for him.

Two other brand new guys got one win each but in those matches were just wrestling girls, so other than it being the same move we'd been going over, it was kind of a shrug your shoulders thing and breathe a sigh of relief they didn't embarass themselves and let's move on to the next match. Other than that they were getting beat in other matches but at least showing more signs of improvement so we're getting somewhere with them overall.

Of course, parents are going crazy seeing their pudly ass kid pin a girl like he just won some kind of championship...I thought that was going to be the worst of it.

But of course it gets even more fucked up than that.

The end of the day, they decide they're giving out four medals for each weight class. I assume they already had them on hand and since tourney won't happen next year, let's give them away...

With the small handful of teams present, that meant, you guessed, it, some weight classes only had four or five kids total, so you've got not only kids that only won a single match (sometimes against a female) getting a medal but actually kids who won ZERO matches walking away with a medal...and a big smile on their face like it meant something.

It turns out, oh horray, "every single person on our team placed at this 'tournament.'"

I'm just shaking my head like what the fuck is this shit, and head coach, an old buddy of mine like I said, is hamming the whole thing up. Pulling all the kids aside in a group to get a photo of them with all their medals on. The two kids who actually place at real tournaments are just standing their looking embarrassed about the whole thing. I kept my distance from the camera and the over-congratulations, wanting no part in this fucking farce.

But it gets worse...

I was going to mention to my buddy that I thought the whole thing was disgusting and demeaning to the idea of a medal and a competition in the first place, but I didn't get a chance because I didn't want to bring it up in front of the kids on the way back. So I figured I'd comment on it next time I see him.

Then I go on Facebook tonight after we get back....

I don't know why I didn't see this coming: he's got a pic of the whole team (or those that were present today) on there, publicly congratulating them because "every single person on our team placed at the tournament" this weekend...without mentioning it wasn't really a tournament and that most of these medals were nothing more than a mislabeled participation award that didn't even require a win in some cases.

So, now not only is he helping these kids misrepresent to themselves what happened but he himself is misrepresenting it to the community, presumedly (at least in part) so he can get brownie points and facebook likes for doing such a good job with the team.

The whole thing makes me fucking sick.

If I was coach, I'd tell any kid that didn't get at least a first place, maybe second if I was feeling generous, today, to do themselves a favor and throw the damn thing away. Instead, you've got a handful of kids, including one girl who didn't win a single match, who are going to be dragging that thing out for the rest of their life telling big fish tales about their wrestling prowess back in high school.

You guys know I'm not one to be negative, but in this particular case, I do have to say: fuck this gay earth. I had to blow off some steam on this one because I was tempted to message my buddy and tell him what a fag move it was, but the damage is already done so he can't really go delete the pics now that it's out there publicly, so better I simmer down and comment later.

Whole thing was an embarrassment. I don't mind taking a hopeless team and slowly building it into something one match, one person at a time, no matter how many losses it takes. But this...?

I cn only take solace in knowing there's no way the captains who actually earned their medals will let it go completely missed that their teammates took a fake medal home this weekend that means jack shit.

The fact that a man I respect as much as I do this guy would play a part in this bullshit after all the discussions we've had about the weak state of our youth, and the role the school and the parents have played in creating that condition, bothers me beyond measure. I mean, it would have been one thing to accept the medals courteously and head home with a team chuckle, grateful for the practice. But to ham it up and then misrepresent it publicly...We aren't talking about elementary school kids - it's supposed to be a high school.

I am seriously beyond words with this guy after seeing his post.

I don't claim to be an expert on the matter, but I'm pretty sure misrepresenting participation medals as trophies is not how you teach youngsters to harden the fuck up.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #41

When I wrestled in high school i'd say 2/3 of our team was like you described then the other 1/3 of us had the warrior spirit. Our coaches literally focused on us and went with the mentality that it's up to each individual to decide how much they want to put into it. The first year or two I started in middle school I definitely didn't have much fire but it was something I consciously changed. The best thing would probably be to encourage and push the leaders so it'll rub off on everyone else. If it doesn't then they're doing the wrong sport.

Post: #42

BB - these kids need a reprieve from getting their asses handed to them every weekend.

This light tourney was probably exactly what they needed.

Your coach is right to make them feel like winners.

That's the kind of thing that gets kids motivated, a taste of victory.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Post: #43

^ I don't know - maybe my rant was a little much because I was still disgusted by the whole thing, but in this case, I have to disagree with you.

Yes, sure, a light tourney was what they needed. I'm fully on board with some light competition to whet the appetite. But to then misrepresent it is self-defeating.

It's one thing to hand out participation awards, even if I do think it's a foolish practice that undermines the rewards of real achievement. It's another entirely to hand out mislabeled medals to kids who won a single match, or even worse, didn't win any matches at all...and then on top of that to show them how to misrepresent their progress further publicly to their community...

Meanwhile, the head coach has weakened the power of his own public praise by saying things on social media that every kid he tagged knows to be untrue. Now when he really does want to make a goodwill shout out for their hard work and effort, it will have lost some of its power. It will just be "coach being coach again," as he's marked himself as a leader who makes feel-good declarations that don't necessarily mean anything.

They were doing just fine getting their asses handed to them every weekend. They knew exactly where they stood and the mountain climb they still had ahead. They were building emotional resilience.

No one was complaining about it or throwing a fit or showing signs of lasting discouragement. They were working harder each time out and slowly getting better. Every weekend we were seeing visible improvement and every weekend yet another kid was landing a first win, breaking that invisible barrier of "kids with a win under their belt" and walking away from a victory with a genuine sense of pride and growth we can build on.

What the coach did this weekend doesn't give us something to build on. It teaches sneaky tactics for using social media and a chance opportunity at a conflated medal to inflate cheap, misleading "successes." It cheapens the rewards of placing that are as of yet still unobtainable to them and will be for some time.

I think research like in that in Dweck's Mindset has shown this soft-gloved approach can ruin a kid's approach to challenging endeavor, undermining them in all walks of life. And in my eyes it's indicative of everything that's wrong with modern society. I'm sure at the least there's a middle line that could be walked here if mine is too hardnosed to be practical.

You're probably right in that it's one weekend in the big scheme of things and not worth dwelling on long. Fortunately, teenagers are smart enough to understand where they really stand and what a cheap reward it was. It's just frustrating to watch my buddy make such an embarrassing spectacle after the conversations we've had about how to best toughen these modern kids up - in my eyes, he's got a huge blind spot about what's going really wrong out there.

A better thing to do would be to get them out to some jv tournaments and have them put in some real competition to win a third or fourth place that doesn't get handed out just for showing up, or, upon failing, represent a more achievable to shoot for down the road.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #44

Me and my friends turned into hardened street fighters by randomly assaulting each other anytime, any place to keep each other in check. I'm talking walking down the street broad daylight suddenly murking each other. There was a blood soaked punching bag in my parents basement because we used to beat it bare fisted until our knuckles opened up.

I don't know what to tell you. I'm only 30 but it seems generational drop in T-levels is accelerating, probably a combination of toxins and our limp-wristed, pussyfooting modern Western culture.