Post: #26

I follow Thomas Wictor too, I have thought he's a fucking Saud shill many times. Purely due to have much he approves of Islam and how he bangs on about the GCC being more advanced then the west and other bullshit.


However I think he's right about Prince Mohammed trying to modernise Saudi Arabia and clearing out the Wahhabists in the country. The religious police have had their powers severely curtailed. Saudi Arabia is trying to mimic the Egyptian red sea resorts with a huge development on its side. Prince Mohammed is consolidating his power though here, his father is a lame duck, he's close to death and basically the last son of Ibn Saud to be King. The Prince was fast tracked to power by the Sudairis and now is making huge movements from women driving to the 2030 shit. I'm not sure how this falls into the whole geopolitical arena in the middle east as it is so convoluted with many factions involved. However the modernisation of Saudi Arabia can only be a good thing. Bang Saudi Arabia coming soon!

Post: #27

The Saudi version of Game Of Thrones is heating up

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-06...-crackdown

Second Saudi Prince Confirmed Killed During Crackdown

Following the death of Prince Mansour bin-Muqrin in a helicopter crash near the Yemen border yesterday, the Saudi Royal Court has confirmed the death of Prince Abdul Aziz bin Fahd - killed during a firefight as authorities attempted to arrest him.

The death has been confirmed by the Saudi royal court.

The Duran and Al-Masdar News both report that the prince died when his security contingent got into a firefight with regime gunmen attempting to make an arrest.

Prince Aziz (44) who was the youngest son of King Fahad.

The Duran's Adam Garrie points out that Prince Abdul Aziz was deeply involved in Saudi Oger Ltd, a company which until it ceased operations in the summer of this year, was owned by the Hariri family. Former Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri was punitively in charge of the company until it ceased operations.

Prince Abdul Aziz’s strange and sudden death which is said to have occurred during an attempted arrest, sheds light on the theory that the clearly forced resignation of former Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri had more to do with internal Saudi affairs than the Saudi attempt to bring instability to Lebanon.

The Saudi Royal family has now lost two princes in 24 hours.

As Al Jazeera notes, in this Saudi version of 'Game of Thrones', the 32-year-old Bin Salman shows that he is willing to throw the entire region into jeopardy to wear the royal gown.

His actions have already all but destroyed the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC); Yemen can no longer be referred to as a functioning state; Egypt is a ticking time bomb; and now Lebanon may erupt.

There's a lot to worry about.

Post: #28

(11-06-2017 09:04 AM)Extinguished Light Wrote:  There are a lot of moving parts here that I can't pretend to understand.

Obviously this is a consolidation of power move for the new crown prince.

There are basically three things that come together there - The IPO of Aramco, consolidation of power for a new crown prince, and the lifting of certain "oppressive restrictions" on women in Saudi Arabia (aka opening the door for increased cultural degeneracy).

There is no way this looks like good news to me. I'm in no way a fan of Saudi Arabia or Jihadism or what have you, but to me this just looks like one more country coming under the thumb of Jewish banksters.

They actually do not need their money or their banks.

Remember Iran before the Islamists took over? Why on Earth would you not want more countries in that area to be more secular?

Post: #29

Painting Bin Salman as a secular reformer fighting the wahhabi establishment is way too simplistic, that's just the image he is going for. Arabia is a very young country, it's bound to loosen up eventually. Bin Salman is the chief neocon/globalist deep state tool in the ruling clan, Wikileaks showed that he was the chief proponent of backing jihadis to destroy secular regimes in the region, sowing destruction in Syria and Yemen.

Walid bin Talal was in his way because this billionaire has a lot of investments all over the Middle East, so he is more for regional stability and not into a total war with Iran.

Post: #30

Delete

Post: #31

(11-06-2017 12:15 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(11-06-2017 09:04 AM)Extinguished Light Wrote:  There are a lot of moving parts here that I can't pretend to understand.

Obviously this is a consolidation of power move for the new crown prince.

There are basically three things that come together there - The IPO of Aramco, consolidation of power for a new crown prince, and the lifting of certain "oppressive restrictions" on women in Saudi Arabia (aka opening the door for increased cultural degeneracy).

There is no way this looks like good news to me. I'm in no way a fan of Saudi Arabia or Jihadism or what have you, but to me this just looks like one more country coming under the thumb of Jewish banksters.

They actually do not need their money or their banks.

Remember Iran before the Islamists took over? Why on Earth would you not want more countries in that area to be more secular?

Because secular governments are more difficult to control than warring and divided Islamist shitholes. Hence Iran 1953, Iraq 2003, Libya 2011 and Syria 2011 - today.

Post: #32

(11-04-2017 10:57 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Does it make sense that it all happened at the same time the King is having the IPO of Aramco on the NYSE?

It's not about Aramco. It is however about a promise Trump made:

Post: #33

Saudi Arabia Aiming To Confiscate 800 Billion In Assets From Citizens
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-08...ted-assets

From the very beginning, there was something off about Sunday's unprecedented countercoup purge unleashed by Mohammad bin Salman on alleged political enemies, including some of Saudi Arabia's richest and most powerful royals and government officials: it was just too brazen to be a simple "power consolidation" move; in fact most commentators were shocked by the sheer audacity, with one question outstanding: why take such a huge gamble? After all, there was little chatter of an imminent coup threat against either the senile Saudi King or the crown prince, MbS, and a crackdown of such proportions would only boost animosity against the current ruling royals further.

Things gradually started to make sense when it emerged that some $33 billion in oligarch net worth was "at risk" among just the 4 wealthiest arrested Saudis, which included the media-friendly prince Alwaleed.



One day later, a Reuters source reported that in a just as dramatic expansion of the original crackdown, bank accounts of over 1,200 individuals had been frozen, a number which was growing by the minute. Commenting on this land cashgrab, we rhetorically asked "So when could the confiscatory process end? As we jokingly suggested yesterday, the ruling Saudi royal family has realized that not only can it crush any potential dissent by arresting dozens of potential coup-plotters, it can also replenish the country's foreign reserves, which in the past 3 years have declined by over $250 billion, by confiscating some or all of their generous wealth, which is in the tens if not hundreds of billions. If MbS continues going down the list, he just may recoup a substantial enough amount to what it makes a difference on the sovereign account."

Then an article overnight from the WSJ confirmed that fundamentally, the purge may be nothing more than a forced extortion scheme, as the Saudi government - already suffering from soaring budget deficits, sliding oil revenues and plunging reserves - was "aiming to confiscate cash and other assets worth as much as $800 billion in its broadening crackdown on alleged corruption among the kingdom’s elite."

As we reported yesterday, the WSJ writes that the country’s central bank, the Saudi Arabian Monetary Authority, said late Tuesday that it has frozen the bank accounts of “persons of interest” and said the move is “in response to the Attorney General’s request pending the legal cases against them.” But what is more notable, is that while we first suggested - jokingly - on Monday that the ulterior Saudi motive would be to simply "nationalize" the net worth of some of Saudi Arabia's wealthiest individuals, now the WSJ confirms that this is precisely the case, and what's more notably is that the amount in question is absolutely staggering: nearly 2x Saudi Arabia's total foreign reserves!

As the WSJ alleges, "the crackdown could also help replenish state coffers. The government has said that assets accumulated through corruption will become state property, and people familiar with the matter say the government estimates the value of assets it can reclaim at up to 3 trillion Saudi riyal, or $800 billion."

While much of that money remains abroad - and invested in various assets from bonds to stocks to precious metals and real estate - which will complicate efforts to reclaim it, even a portion of that amount would help shore up Saudi Arabia’s finances.

A prolonged period of low oil prices forced the government to borrow money on the international bond market and to draw extensively from the country’s foreign reserves, which dropped from $730 billion at their peak in 2014 to $487.6 billion in August, the latest available government data.

Confirming our speculation was advisory firm Eurasia Group, which in a note said that the crown prince "needs cash to fund the government’s investment plans" adding that “It was becoming increasingly clear that additional revenue is needed to improve the economy’s performance. The government will also strike deals with businessmen and royals to avoid arrest, but only as part of a greater commitment to the local economy.”

Of course, there is a major danger that such a draconian cash grab would result in a violent blowback by everyone who has funds parked in the Kingdom. To assuage fears, Saudi Arabia’s minister of commerce, Majid al Qasabi, on Tuesday sought to reassure the private sector that the corruption investigation wouldn’t interfere with normal business operations. The procedures and investigations undertaken by the anticorruption agency won’t affect ongoing business or projects, he said. Furthermore, the Saudi central bank said that individual accounts had been frozen, not corporate accounts. “It is business as usual for both banks and corporates,” the central bank said.

However, this is problematic: first, not only is the list of names of detained and "frozen" accounts growing by the day...

The government earlier this week vowed that it would arrest more people as part of the corruption investigation, which began around three years ago. As a precautionary measure, authorities have banned a large number of people from traveling outside the country, among them hundreds of royals and people connected to those arrested, according to people familiar with the matter. The government hasn’t officially named the people who were detained.

... but the mere shock of a move that would be more appropriate for the 1950s USSR has prompted crushed any faith and confidence the international community may have had in Saudi governance and business practices.

The biggest irony would be if from this flagrant attmept to shore up the Kingdom's deteriorating finances, a domestic and international bank run emerged, with locals and foreign individuals and companies quietly, or not so quietly, pulling their assets and capital from confiscation ground zero, in the process precipitating the very economic collapse that the move was meant to avoid.

Judging by the market reaction, which has sent Riyal forward tumbling on rising bets of either a recession, or devaluation, or both, this unorthodox attempt to inject up to $800 billion in assets into the struggling local economy, could soon backfire spectacularly.

Post: #34

This has happened recently before in China. The numbers they are reporting to be regained in the asset seizures probably pales in comparison to the amount that was grafted. China's graft was so bad, no amount of seizure would come near the original amount. I wonder is SA had a graft problem that bad. Like China, it wasn't until a change of power leadership does anyone get arrested for the graft. When Hu Jintao came to power, he cracked down on all those old Jiang Zemin corruption party leaders. Then when Xi Jinping came in he cracked down even harder and surprised everyone. Hu only stopped the worst offenders. Xi stopped people that were taking bribes as small as a Rolex watch.

None of the people the stopped were capable of being stopped in the previous regime.

That was business as usual for the time. Same goes for SA. The uber rich Chinese that escaped you see in Vancouver and the USA, with mega houses or supercars, are not any different than the Lamborghini flipping men in SA, gambling supercars, cheetahs, and whatever else they can find just for fun.

As with most things in life, the official story isn't false, nor is the conspiracy to grab power is as well. Killing two birds with one stone....

Post: #35

Saudi has asked its citizens to leave Lebanon and those planning to go, to cancel their plans.

I reckon war may be imminent. Curious whether Saudi will fight it directly, or Israel will be the forefront.

Post: #36

This whole SA situation has my head spinning. My traditional sources for Global Affairs have not been doing a great job, Sero Hedge has been best with updates from a catchment of sources versus traditional global affair sites. I am trying to learn more and dig deeper so if folks recommend sources, please do share.

SA x Israel alliance makes no sense in theory - these two are bosom buddies with the same end goals in mind, both countries hardliners are hacks as in theory they should be enemies.

Post: #37

I don;t think there will be a war in Lebanon anytime soon, because the Saudi-Israeli neocon stratagem depends on sowing discord along ethnic/sectarian lines and exploiting the ensuing chaos to destroy their target country. That was the game plan in Syria.

Eventually though, Syrians of all stripes and religious affiliations came around and rallied around their president, wiping out ISIS and other foreign/mercenary jihadi bastards. ISIS collapsed despite tens of billions of globalist funding, because they had no organic support in Syria, they're clearly an astroturfed movement.

Lebanon stands very united today, Sunnis are pissed at the Saudis holding their prime minister Hariri, Shiites have had a strong alliance with Syrian Christians, and Lebanese Christians respect that. Ironically, this latest Saudi move has managed to unite the country like no time before.

The only war scenario conceivable is Israel unilaterally launching air strikes on Hizbollah targets, but they'd have to deal with Russian air defenses.

The helicopter that crashed killing high-ranking Saudi officials was apparently shot down by the Saudi air force, they didn't even bother planting a bomb or staging a crash. The recent conference on the futuristic city with the talking robot was probably a trap set up to gather all the potential opponents of the crown prince in one place. According to a journalist interviewed by Corbett earlier today, those officials might have been alerted and were trying to leave the country.

Post: #38

Looks like the coup by MBS is almost over, he's about to be crowned new King of Saudi Arabia

Post: #39

So what the hell does this all mean for the ME?

What does mean for US relations with the Saudis?

Post: #40

(11-09-2017 02:16 PM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  Looks like the coup by MBS is almost over, he's about to be crowned new King of Saudi Arabia

No father would want to be "accidentally" killed by his own son.

Smart from Salman....

Post: #41

(11-09-2017 04:19 PM)AManLikePutin Wrote:  

(11-09-2017 02:16 PM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  Looks like the coup by MBS is almost over, he's about to be crowned new King of Saudi Arabia

No father would want to be "accidentally" killed by his own son.

Smart from Salman....

This has been planned for a long time. This is not a coup by any stretch of the imagination. Even I knew about the rumored succession plan from a foreign policy magazine article maybe 3 or 4 years ago.

He's a super smart, very educated, and talented man who found and fixed many things behind the scenes. They want the talent to lead the country moving forward, and also because he is interested in long term, diversifying their wealth into other things outside of just oil. Long term oil only wealth could collapse their economy and wealth and he understands that. Also, it's easy to make even more money when you still have tons of it...

Open Question for everyone: How many years or decades will it take before Saudi aligns itself with China more so than America? Especially economically.

Post: #42

Needless to say, I am very pleased by the arrest of the Saudi version of Soros, "prince" Bin Talal, whom I've several times denounced on this forum and others: /thread-48360...pid1168679



And note that Bin Talal has been, for decades, one of the principal backers of leftist and cucked politicians, worldwide, but notably in France (where his political, nefarious clout was immense)... he's also a kidnapper and rapist, see my previous posts on that: /thread-48360...pid1168686

That does not bode well for Maduro, by the way! Foreign enemies of President Trump: Bin Talal first, then Maduro, then the ChoSun leader (unless he calms down fast), will go down one after the other, want to bet?

Post: #43

(11-09-2017 03:42 PM)kaotic Wrote:  So what the hell does this all mean for the ME?

What does mean for US relations with the Saudis?

Could be any of the following:

1. For the Middle East this could be a dividing point, perhaps even a turning point in Radical Islam's spread and power into a more moderate one focused on economy and tech, under Sunni control.

2. Also could cause a few or at least one new war.

3. The return of the Arabian Empire. Over time they will reacquire by hard and soft power all formerly owned lands or more. They certainly have enough money to do it and would solidify their long term survival as a civilization giving them a new 250-300 years to be dominant. Another Harun Al-Rashid? If they annexed most of their neighbors, no one would hardly cry foul except EU cuck countries. Puppeting is also possible.

4. A new legit ally to fight extremism.

5. Possibly a new trade partner outside of oil someday. Likely they will start buying tons of military hardware from the USA now.

Looking forward past that, would be what new dynamic would this play into Western Europe in the next 20 years? France will probably become an Islamic state of some kind/degree for example.

Also, should they become a large empire again, should it collapse into bad hombres control, Israel is kinda fucked especially if nukes or whatever advanced weaponry of the time is in hardliner's control.

Post: #44

(11-09-2017 12:58 PM)kosko Wrote:  This whole SA situation has my head spinning. My traditional sources for Global Affairs have not been doing a great job, Sero Hedge has been best with updates from a catchment of sources versus traditional global affair sites. I am trying to learn more and dig deeper so if folks recommend sources, please do share.

SA x Israel alliance makes no sense in theory - these two are bosom buddies with the same end goals in mind, both countries hardliners are hacks as in theory they should be enemies.

Why not? This talking point reminds me of how anti-Russia folks justify the USA rejecting Russia on any level of cooperation. Putin is an evil guy. Putin is the richest man in the world. Putin killed all the oligarchs and is very dirty himself. Putin is KGB, so you cannot trust him. Putin did not really win those elections... etc. etc.

There is no reason why Saudi Arabia cannot work with Israel if they share similar interests. That's how alliances and pacts get started. Two countries run out of reasons to hate each other and gain too many shared interests. Good foreign policy weighs both and chooses a direction that provides the best benefit.

Saudi Arabia is a monarchy. If they were smart they would take a page from China's book and use Autocracy more effectively to push even unpopular agendas to the point where local people either forget or drop their grudges/issues/qualms.

We live in an age where certain styles of democracy has been found to be less powerful than initially thought. Those that have the benefit of these hybrid type governments, will find themselves able to make changes to their civilization more dynamically.

Post: #45

Watch Lebannon. The Saudis and Israelis are looking for more war to encircle Iran.

Post: #46

The Saudi Arabia regime isn't only a natural allly to Israel. It's the purpose of it's existence. Al saud are a British invention. That was their role in the region. To serve as an ally to all British and by association Israeli interests.

Saudi Arabia is simply turning from wahhabism to a nationalistic dictatorship that will still use radicals from time tontime. Dubai is a whorehouse yet still finances and backs jihadists in Syria.

Yes this might mean less uncontrollable jihadists armies but the end policies remain the same.

At least the previous regime knew that there was a time to sit down and talk but MBS wants to power his way and boss everyone around. Isn't working so well in yemen. He's bombed the poorest country in the region for 4 years yet still can't get any shit done.

If these shitheads had the intelligence of the Iranian regime we'd be in deep shit but the problem is they fuck up and fail and leave a trail of destruction.

Lebanese sunnis are pissed. But their first grade leadership are notorious money hungry cowards. I worry about their short term memory. Still though, it's not them that are gonna fight a civil war. Lebanese sunnis don't really fight. Very few do.

Heck even in the civil war there wasn't a prominent Sunni militia here. And even after all the attempts to spread isis were met with very limited success. Some cities like Tripoli have their share of extremists but they're no match to hezballah as of now. What's worrisome is the refugees here who can be armed and raised up any second.

What Saudi Arabia can do is harm us economically especially if the us stays in its course of imposing sanctions soon.

They can also provide economic help and political Arabic cover to an Israel attack.

If Saudi attacks Lebanon on its own which is quite unlikely it will get it's ass kicked. Once a few yémén missiles start falling it's gonna be a funny sight.

Post: #47

MBS needed attractive slogans and goals for his rise to power.

For his people, it's supposedly fighting corruption. If I was a Saudi youth I'd be happy some princes got their ass locked up now (nevermind that he's been more corrupt than all of them combined already).

For Trump it's the distancing from wahhabism that's supposedly gonna take place

For Israel it's the promise of being anti Iran and giving them normalized relations.

Ben naef and co. Have been the us men in Saudi for a long time. To get ahead of them he had to promise a lot.

Post: #48

Unless oil gets back to above 80$/barrel, Saudi is going to see a massive drop in its influence in the next decade. The idea that they can diversify away from oil or that their population will accept a modern, less extreme version of Islam is a pipe dream. Saudi people have neither the IQ nor the work ethnic to have high value added industries. I don't understand what MBS's long term goal is.

Post: #49

The analysis I heard was that the king and crown prince basically just will say and do anything to gain and keep power. This whole "anti-radicalism" is just to get money on board for their new city project. The crown prince is also supposedly a rabid Iran hater who calls Shiite s a "non-muslim cult". Does not see them as a muslims at all. You would think not being muslims would make them potential partners for the West, but we would rather work with this scat-fetishist who can't even win a war against a bunch of mountain herders.

Post: #50

Arado best case scenario he wants to follow Dubai model. Import a workforce and have a bunch of shiny objects.

Give robots citizenship and shit like that.