Post: #1

I stumbled on a site called Real World Divorce that shares stories and examples of divorce in all fifty states. I clicked on Maryland, a state I lived in for most of my life. Here's one story:

Quote:An acquaintance was 46 years into a marriage when his wife suddenly encouraged him to retire from the federal government. "We can travel, relax, and have fun," she said. He responded that they already had plenty of leisure time and that he had more than a month's paid vacation annually. He retired a few years later, as previously planned. Immediately upon his retirement, the wife sued him for divorce. She explained that she had gone to the Montgomery County Commission on Women seminar seeking advice on how to divorce her husband as soon as possible, while maximizing her financial gains. The taxpayer-funded leaders of the seminar advised her to wait until her husband was retired so that she could immediately collect a portion of his pension and so that she would continue to receive benefits if her ex-husband were to die. The author met this gentleman almost a decade after his divorce. While he was blindsided by her actions, once he attended a Commission on Women seminar himself (held fairly frequently throughout the year), he began to understand the careful strategy his wife had adopted. He noted that several attorneys were present, eager to represent some of the women in attendance. A cottage industry in Montgomery County, Maryland is born. Gentleman noted ruefully that he had at one point worked 2 jobs in order to support his wife and 3 sons when his wife was home with their young children.

Essentially, women come out on top in divorce over 90% of the time. What a shitty deal modern marriage is for men.

Post: #2

At that age, why not just flee the country with your assets and move to the 3rd world?

Vindictive cunt get what's coming to her, no money and support. Old retired dude gets to live the life of riley.

Post: #3

I never was really into MGTOW, but after reading that site unless you live in Nevada be very careful dealing with women at all...

Post: #4

They have 3 sons - it's interesting what they have to say about it.

If the man was investing enough in fulfilling his father role then the sons would probably love their father and support him in his plight identifying with his male problem more then with their mother's greed. Sons shunning the mother and helping the father would be revenge enough.

If he only worked, didn't bother to pass any masculine values to his sons and let his sons to grow up under influence of mommy, then he is to blame for his problems himself.

Post: #5

As someone who never really had shit so didn't have much to worry about losing, but am now making good money, shit is depressing.

Post: #6

Showing "conflict" allows a woman to extract more favorable terms, even if the conflict comes from the woman.

Quote: Massachusetts allows a divorce litigant to make claims for sole custody on the grounds that he or she has "conflict" with the other parent. One lawyer explained it as follows: "A person can file a lawsuit against another person and then say to a court 'I am not getting along very well with this person that I sued and therefore our child should have just one parent… me. Oh, and it would be nice to have $100,000 per year so that I can do a really good job taking care of our child.' Once the money starts flowing, it will turn out that the 'conflict' does not prevent the plaintiff from asking the defendant to take care of the child for a week so that she can go on vacation with her new boyfriend."

What does manufactured conflict look like on the ground? Here's a text message exchange contained in an exhibit to a motion in the Kosow v. Shuman case below. The mother of a 2-year-old sued the father in February 2010, following four years of marriage, hoping to secure physical custody and then collect approximately $5 million in tax-free child support through the child's 23rd birthday. It is March 10, 2011. The child is now three years old. The parents, who live about 15 minutes' drive apart from each other, are trying to coordinate an exchange:

Jessica: She gets picked up at noon if she were to go to school. Drop her off at noon.

Michael: I won't be home till 12:45. I can drop her off at 9:30 if you u want but she will prob sleep late

Jessica: Ok well WTF. School is out at noon.

Jessica: U r fucking a selfish fuck

Jessica: And u r no role model

Jessica: I wont even say it and it is sooooooo vile

Michael: I can drop her off at 1 or u can pick her up earlier. What is ur problem?

Jessica: Fuck u

Jessica: I have had it with u and ur abuse

What a nightmare.

Post: #7

I've spent two hours reading that site.... At work. The message can't be any clearer.

Post: #8

Dude that site is depressing. I always avoided Family Law because of the nature of the litigation, it is a foul way to make a living. Divorce lawyers are frequently victims are violence too, after reading that site you know why. Props to Nevada for making things reasonable, if I ever have kids in the US I will do like Donovan Sharpe and move to Nevada.

Post: #9

From the New York section:
   

Post: #10

(09-27-2017 04:34 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  At that age, why not just flee the country with your assets and move to the 3rd world?

Vindictive cunt get what's coming to her, no money and support. Old retired dude gets to live the life of riley.

He's getting a US Government pension, they can easily take the money every week. Even if he was able to liquidate his other assets and get them out of the country, they would use the pension to offset the difference.

Post: #11

Something many people don't understand is that litigation (and the expenses associated with it) can extend far beyond the point when a divorce has been "finalized"...

Post-Divorce Litigation

Quote:One characteristic of America's family law system is the lack of finality. "The court has decided that one healthy adult should be a financial dependent of another adult," summarized one attorney, "but the extent and period of dependency is left open. The Legislature and the court have decided that the child should be a cash-producing asset, but the ownership of that asset is uncertain and constantly reviewable. The court leaves open questions as to who will pay for certain of the child's expenses. The court orders people to go about their daily lives in a certain way, but the only way to get those orders enforced is to keep going back to court and paying my fees."

Litigation does not typically stop after the trial, after the appeal, or even after a second trial following a successful appeal. Parties can go back to court at any time regarding child-related issues. "It isn't like a contract dispute between two companies that ends after the trial," said a business litigator in Massachusetts. "Companies that sue each other usually won't work together again so there is no more cause of action. With divorce, though, as long as there is a kid, the lawyers keep billing until the kid turns 23." Child support or alimony can be brought back to the judge in the event that one party begins to earn more or less than previously. Custody and parenting time decisions can be reviewed at any time after a change in circumstances, though some states require that there be a "substantial and material change."

As noted above, for couples where one ex-spouse has chosen the court system, rather than mediation, as their dispute resolution system, it is virtually inevitable that they will return to court any time they have a dispute. How significant a dispute does there need to be before people are back in court? Professor Margaret Brinig told us "I read a file today of someone in another city spending more than $7000 [in attorneys fees] litigating whether the ex-spouse had violated a court order by failing to replace baseboards and to clean the toilets in the property awarded in their dissolution decree. A reported appellate decision in Virginia deals with whether a custodial parent could forbid a noncustodial parent from letting their son ride a mini-dirt bike." A disagreement about how a child's Christmas vacation will be spent can start with letters back-and-forth between lawyers ($3,000) and end with a motion in front of a judge ($10,000).

Post: #12

I think you have to be a bit careful with that website because in looking up the info they have in place for Illinois, they have the old child support formulas listed but the state changed all of that this year. Previously, they would take a percentage of the paying parents net income but now they consider both parents income to determine child support. Plus they count any alimony to be awarded as income to be used in determining child support. This is a massive improvement from the old method that I got stuck with. In addition, now there is mandatory mediation in place if the parents cannot agree on a parenting arrangement before having the courts decide. This also is a huge improvement on the previous system.

I do think that as time is going by that the divorce laws are slowly starting to improve. In just two years, the laws in Illinois are much better than when I went through this. My advice to anyone who is going through a divorce here is to fight as hard as you can, don't cuck out and learn every nook and cranny of the divorce laws that you can. This way, you will know if your lawyer is doing his job and you can self direct your divorce. As far as divorces go, I got as favorable a result as one could get, largely because I did the above.

That said, I do not blame any man here for being deathly afraid of this. It is said that going through a divorce is as traumatic if not more so than the death of a loved one. I could write a book on my experience but touch wood, I did quite well in the end and now my post- divorce has been conflict free.

Post: #13

When you earn real money put it in the Cook Islands in an account in your name only, do this before you get married as well as after(if you choose to marry...) and keep your money there in a blind trust. Many doctors I know shield their assets this way to avoid bullshit lawsuits (or for that matter lawsuits with merit...). Asset shielding, prenuptial agreements, post nuptial agreements, and blind trusts are the only way to protect yourself in this hostile environment. Even if I get an unplanned pregnancy I want in my child's life, gotta have leverage these days.....

Post: #14

Gotta love this from the section on Denmark:

Quote:How do people game the system? “It is mostly people with lower incomes who try to get extra money. Single parents get more money from the state for each child and therefore it is common for people to pretend not to be married to a second spouse. Mothers will accuse the father of being a child molester in order to get custody so that they can then collect both the state subsidies for single parents and child support from the father.” What if the father doesn’t have a job? “The state will pay on behalf of the father if the father cannot pay. The state pays for most of the consequences of failed marriages.”

[A Dane wrote to explain "In the Muslim communities there's a thing called a 'father hotel'. It's a one room apartment allegedly housing 18 men, divorced from their wives. In reality the men are living with their wives and kids enjoying the single mother benefits in spades. Visit http://denkorteavis.dk/2012/vi-bliver-sn...et-driver/ and ask Google to translate it. Divorce is a sound business decision for poor people with lots of kids."]

Post: #15

Meh.

I think the first time your wife sees you shoot an animal, hang it to bleed out, skin it and gut it without blinking she probably puts divorce out of her head.

Post: #16

(09-27-2017 05:01 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  I never was really into MGTOW, but after reading that site unless you live in Nevada be very careful dealing with women at all...

MGTOW overlaps with other philosophies.

As women are men's most risky and expensive fixed liabilities, you need to do due-diligence and honestly determine the cost-risk-benefit of having a woman in your life.

There are some men who conclude that the cost-risk-benefit doesn't stack up.

Other men contemplating boycotting marriage are faced with the austere Red Pill decision between loneliness v alimony loneliness.

Vaginalimony makes men far less attractive to future prospects.

Post: #17

(09-28-2017 03:56 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Meh.

I think the first time your wife sees you shoot an animal, hang it to bleed out, skin it and gut it without blinking she probably puts divorce out of her head.

Leonard D running street game with his pals.

Post: #18

(09-28-2017 03:56 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Meh.

I think the first time your wife sees you shoot an animal, hang it to bleed out, skin it and gut it without blinking she probably puts divorce out of her head.

Nice thought, but has nothing to do with reality. Unless someone is prepared to murder your wife she'll leave her man? What difference does it make: if she divorces you, you lose everything, and if you have to murder her, you still go to jail and lose everything.

I have a far better solution. The laws must be changed.

There must be punishments for adultery or else marriage is a sham. There must be a cheaper court process or else no one but the rich can afford the legal privileges offered by marriage. There must be more jury trials and less bench rulings for difficult cases, child support needs to be tax deductible, and women who have children out of wedlock should be put on mandatory birth control.

Without these legal changes the West will not survive. No country or race of people that does not enforce marriage has ever survived.

Post: #19

Quote:A good general rule is that anything that is condemned as immoral outside of family court will turn out to be profitable once you get in front of a judge," said one attorney.

http://www.realworlddivorce.com/Introduction

"But but but unless we start having kids the West is doomed, guyise!!"

Post: #20

(09-27-2017 07:13 PM)Nineteen84 Wrote:  From the New York section:

And a lot of men are doing murder-suicide as a result. "I have a gun, she is going to feel it".

It would be interesting to see murder-suicide statistics in relation to divorce rates where the man cannot fight back through the power of family courts, the legal system and the favouritism of women.

Post: #21

This is the site we've been waiting for. For too long, the discussion on divorce in the manosphere has centered around anecdata, horror stories, urban legends and high-level statistics. It's long past time someone knowledgeable put in the work to do actual analysis based on case studies, interviews, relevant case law, economic analysis of child support guidelines, trends in the law, the appeals system & actionable advice on how to prepare---all on a state-by-state basis.

Will hit his tip jar if he has one---we all should.

EDIT:
I just assumed the proprietor of the site was a man...but it's a group of youngish, decently attractive women and a dorky electrical engineer with kids





Good on them!

Post: #22

(09-29-2017 07:01 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 03:56 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Meh.

I think the first time your wife sees you shoot an animal, hang it to bleed out, skin it and gut it without blinking she probably puts divorce out of her head.

Nice thought, but has nothing to do with reality. Unless someone is prepared to murder your wife she'll leave her man? What difference does it make: if she divorces you, you lose everything, and if you have to murder her, you still go to jail and lose everything.

I have a far better solution. The laws must be changed.

There must be punishments for adultery or else marriage is a sham. There must be a cheaper court process or else no one but the rich can afford the legal privileges offered by marriage. There must be more jury trials and less bench rulings for difficult cases, child support needs to be tax deductible, and women who have children out of wedlock should be put on mandatory birth control.

Without these legal changes the West will not survive. No country or race of people that does not enforce marriage has ever survived.

I don't know what's gotten sand in your vagina lately, S, but this is just fantasy land trash. Fear of repercussions, even extralegal ones, keep a woman honest. They have since the dawn of time. I've been an advocate for showing a rather brutally masculine front for this reason alone. Because despite your religious dogma regarding societal values, primitive biological drivers always win out on a day to day basis.

"Change the laws". Yeah, get back to me when you come within .0001% of accomplishing that, if you can get it past your (((managers))). Meanwhile my marriage is ticking along nicely, thankyou very much. You see, women absorb psychological control and it actually makes them happier when they're conditioned away from thinking they can simply do whatever the fuck they want. Now, this may rustle your jimmies but your precious fantasy-land laws are not going bullet-proof the marriages of faggot men-children. Women divorce men with no payoff at all, simply because they're sick of their fat bodies and soft hands.

A nation of real men would fucking laugh at our laws. A nation of pantywaist faggots with all the laws in the world will still be walked over by their own women.

You need to seriously unfuck yourself. It really seems like your whole world view is rapidly evaporating now that Trump is proving to be less than a messiah and you're compensating by lashing out at anyone and anything that doesn't conform to your dream of a Ned Flanders renaissance.

Post: #23

(09-27-2017 05:01 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  I never was really into MGTOW, but after reading that site unless you live in Nevada be very careful dealing with women at all...

A desert wasteland known for its brothels, boxing matches and sundry rappers murdered on the Strip is your best shot at preserving dignity & solvency in the event your marriage fails.

Amazing.

Post: #24

(09-29-2017 08:54 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(09-29-2017 07:01 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-28-2017 03:56 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Meh.

I think the first time your wife sees you shoot an animal, hang it to bleed out, skin it and gut it without blinking she probably puts divorce out of her head.

Nice thought, but has nothing to do with reality. Unless someone is prepared to murder your wife she'll leave her man? What difference does it make: if she divorces you, you lose everything, and if you have to murder her, you still go to jail and lose everything.

I have a far better solution. The laws must be changed.

There must be punishments for adultery or else marriage is a sham. There must be a cheaper court process or else no one but the rich can afford the legal privileges offered by marriage. There must be more jury trials and less bench rulings for difficult cases, child support needs to be tax deductible, and women who have children out of wedlock should be put on mandatory birth control.

Without these legal changes the West will not survive. No country or race of people that does not enforce marriage has ever survived.

I don't know what's gotten sand in your vagina lately, S, but this is just fantasy land trash. Fear of repercussions, even extralegal ones, keep a woman honest. They have since the dawn of time. I've been an advocate for showing a rather brutally masculine front for this reason alone. Because despite your religious dogma regarding societal values, primitive biological drivers always win out on a day to day basis.

"Change the laws". Yeah, get back to me when you come within .0001% of accomplishing that, if you can get it past your (((managers))). Meanwhile my marriage is ticking along nicely, thankyou very much. You see, women absorb psychological control and it actually makes them happier when they're conditioned away from thinking they can simply do whatever the fuck they want. Now, this may rustle your jimmies but your precious fantasy-land laws are not going bullet-proof the marriages of faggot men-children. Women divorce men with no payoff at all, simply because they're sick of their fat bodies and soft hands.

A nation of real men would fucking laugh at our laws. A nation of pantywaist faggots with all the laws in the world will still be walked over by their own women.

You need to seriously unfuck yourself. It really seems like your whole world view is rapidly evaporating now that Trump is proving to be less than a messiah and you're compensating by lashing out at anyone and anything that doesn't conform to your dream of a Ned Flanders renaissance.

You seem totally content in a race to the bottom of barbarism, but your shortsightedness prevents you from seeing the big picture. For if you think men should merely be content in creating their little fiefdom, then how long before a pack of young men come along and take everything you've created by force?

You don't seem to understand the true implications of a lawless world; the Patriarch does not rule, but instead the Warlord.

In fact your conclusions do not match your premises at all - if there is no point to changing the laws, because all hope is lost, then the correct conclusion isn't to build a little safe family in the middle of nowhere but instead to:

- Cheat, lie, and steal as much as possible to accumulate money and power
- Get sex in any shape or fashion as cheaply as possible without getting in trouble, from whoring to rape
- Encourage the collapse of society as much as possible, vote in far-left

This way when the Venezuelan-style collapse comes, you will not encumbered with a wife and kids (that you are aware of) but instead will be free to find other lawless men and pillage with impunity.

Of course you do not believe in these things, since you have a wife and children, but rest assured you are beyond misguided if you think ignoring the broader political situation will fare well for yourself or your progeny.

Moreover, turning a blind eye to laws that are destroying your weaker Neighbors is the definition of sin because you do not love them as yourself. The strong earn favor from God when they help the weak.

"And we ought -- we who are strong -- to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves;" Romans 15:1

Turn your back on your Neighbors when they are suffering, and it's just a matter of time before it's your turn to suffer.

Post: #25

(09-29-2017 07:30 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:A good general rule is that anything that is condemned as immoral outside of family court will turn out to be profitable once you get in front of a judge," said one attorney.

http://www.realworlddivorce.com/Introduction

"But but but unless we start having kids the West is doomed, guyise!!"

That was one of the most depressing things I ever read. I really dodged a bullet with some females, glad I did not marry.