Post: #26

Leasing is enjoyable to have a worry free driving experience, downside is its not a permanent fix, as every few years you have to get a new car.

If you think a permanent 500-800/mo car payment is worth it, then go for it.

I understand not wanting to show up to a professional job in a beater, but I do think there's better options available than leasing luxury vehicle

Post: #27

(09-02-2017 04:17 PM)Repo Wrote:  That said I'm looking at those Alpha Romeos that Kona mentioned, those look amazing, and seem to have great reviews.

Those are exactly the case I was mentioning where the base model is probably stupid. From what I read, and how it feels to drive, that's a Ferrari engine in the Quadrofoglio. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_F154_engine

Its double the price of the base, but worth it. I don't see a lease option on the website, but I know the Alfa romeo in Honolulu would do it for that model. https://www.alfaromeousa.com/car-shoppin...ent-offers

And you want the warranty. That thing needs to be dealer serviced.

Aloha!

Post: #28

Yeah, there is a lease option coming up for me, but the price is essentially the same as the car payment so I'd definately buy it if I chose that option. Not sure why this specific car the lease price is so high compared to other cars in the same price range, I guess they don't really want you to lease them.

Post: #29

(09-02-2017 04:32 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(09-02-2017 04:14 PM)Repo Wrote:  I'm not set on any car at this point, still shopping and probably won't purchase till next year. Thread was intended to simply discuss the pros and cons of leasing versus buying. I've never leased a car before, but at first glance it seems to be an attractive option.

Leasing a car is good if you have a business for tax write off purposes.
I still don't know what a tax write off is.
But leases crush cashflows. Repossessions are going to be very high during a Trump Administration.

I've never leased a car and never will. Knowing that the bank owns my car rather than myself is a nightmare to me. When things go bad, which they will, you will a) paying the expenses of something that you will end up taking back b) You fail to make payments you risk your credit for something that doesn't appreciate or own...

Beta on all counts.

I respect this opinion but a humorous reply to the saying that you'd rather own your car is...Q: why does a the bank have a drive through? A: So your car can see its owner when you make your car payment.

Might not be so relevant now that you pay online but you don't own your car if you're financing it either. Unless the title's locked away in your desk drawer or in the important pile next to your birth certificate it's still not "yours"

But I agree with you that the smartest use of money when it comes to cars is typically to pay it outright, upfront and keep that figure as low as god, greed, and government allow.

Post: #30

(09-02-2017 06:21 PM)h3ltrsk3ltr Wrote:  

(09-02-2017 04:32 PM)crdr Wrote:  

(09-02-2017 04:14 PM)Repo Wrote:  I'm not set on any car at this point, still shopping and probably won't purchase till next year. Thread was intended to simply discuss the pros and cons of leasing versus buying. I've never leased a car before, but at first glance it seems to be an attractive option.

Leasing a car is good if you have a business for tax write off purposes.
I still don't know what a tax write off is.
But leases crush cashflows. Repossessions are going to be very high during a Trump Administration.

I've never leased a car and never will. Knowing that the bank owns my car rather than myself is a nightmare to me. When things go bad, which they will, you will a) paying the expenses of something that you will end up taking back b) You fail to make payments you risk your credit for something that doesn't appreciate or own...

Beta on all counts.

I respect this opinion but a humorous reply to the saying that you'd rather own your car is...Q: why does a the bank have a drive through? A: So your car can see its owner when you make your car payment.

Might not be so relevant now that you pay online but you don't own your car if you're financing it either. Unless the title's locked away in your desk drawer or in the important pile next to your birth certificate it's still not "yours"

But I agree with you that the smartest use of money when it comes to cars is typically to pay it outright, upfront and keep that figure as low as god, greed, and government allow.

I really like that one.

Post: #31

Any car that you can lease or buy new, you're better off buying a slightly older version of that car due to immediately 20-25% depreciation just by driving it off the lot. A used car, that you buy outright, with 20-40k miles on it is a great compromise between not having to worry about repairs, and not paying too much up front. At the same time, you own the car, so you don't have the hassle of mileage overage on a lease, or handing it back and repeating the process once the lease is up. Buying new cars doesn't make sense at all given the massive loss of value that you will never recoup.

Post: #32

(09-02-2017 06:20 PM)Repo Wrote:  Yeah, there is a lease option coming up for me, but the price is essentially the same as the car payment so I'd definately buy it if I chose that option. Not sure why this specific car the lease price is so high compared to other cars in the same price range, I guess they don't really want you to lease them.

http://www.giuliaforums.com/forum/481-al...554?page=1

They make a lot less of them that cars in the similar range. And there's less dealerships, so a solid used market isn't there. In fact it looks like they stopped Alfa romeo franchises in the us and just brought them back a few years ago. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/car.../10285723/

Aloha!

Post: #33

I have heard even from a guy who is worth 40 mio. $ that Leasing a car does not calculate. Low-end luxury range does not make much sense. Some low-end conventional/utility cars may have so many given perks that they sort of make sense if you use it for your business and sell it off within 3 years.




In German, but good subtitles in English available. (Guy may not look like this, but he is a Harvard educated former investment banker who is now worth 40 mio. $.)

Aside from the financial issues there are other risks. Essentially the bank owns the car. One of the actual cases that I heard to an acquaintance was brutal. She bought a small compact car, had it almost paid off completely after 3 years. The she got into an accident (not her fault) and the car was totaled. Since the lease contract was almost up, the bank received the payout for the car and said to her: "Thank you and fuck off." The car was still worth some 50%+ of the original price, but who cares. Sure - you can make sure that the insurance option covers somehow for that little thing, but you will still be fucked over in such a case - even if less strongly than with the case above.

I also worked for some very successful financially prudent mid-sized companies (up to 300 mio. $ turnover) and I was also surprised to find out that many of them preferred to buy a low-key utility vehicles, own it in full and then sell them off later. Big corporations leased, but they have access to banks, some even financed the deals with their own financial divisions.

I might point out as well that the price decrease especially in the luxury range is massive in most models. You will be better suited to buy a used car which is 4 years old, but has a relatively low mileage. You could take a credit, though I personally don't even recommend that from a financial viewpoint.

Post: #34

(09-02-2017 12:03 PM)Repo Wrote:  

(09-02-2017 11:29 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  What are you buying/leasing for?

Seems pointless to buy/lease a 'luxury' car just for a daily commute.

On the other hand, if you just happen to enjoy riding luxury cars, you would probably want to rapidly trade in cars so that you can get the next big thrill.
It would make sense to rather have short-term lease agreements and then rapidly switch to the next car for your next dopamine hit.

For my own enjoyment mostly. I'm not rich by any means, make just over 6 figures and have a very reasonable mortgage. I mostly date women in my income class or higher, so I don't know if a beater is worth it, plus wouldn't look that good when showing up with it and senior directors at work. And most importantly I just don't want a beater. I realize neither option is a great financial decision, but I'm a single guy in low 30s and based off various health issues and diseases that run in the family I don't expect to live passed 70.

Anyway, I live outside Philly limits so the car would get a decent amount of use, but definately not more than 10k miles a year.

Lastly would like to have a nice car to help with SA game, that thread has been eye opening. Whether buy or lease, I could afford to pay off the sticker price in 4 years, which seems to be the rule of thumb.

Why don't you just keep your current car, and then supplement with the occasional month-to-month rental of a high end luxury car? Then instead of having a low end car you can instead enjoy having a high end car. When the hole in your budget starts getting too big, you just hand back the car, cancel the month-to-month rental (I've had a quick look at car rental sites in the USA, most of them allow to cancel anytime), and go back your current car until you've saved up for the next awesome car rental.

It seems silly to commit yourself to a 4 year commitment to a 7 when what your really want is to enjoy short term experiences with a string of 9's.

Post: #35

This is really not my area of expertise, but a friend of mine bought a used (ca 8 year old) Ferrari and drove it for a few years. Not a practical car by any means, but he sold it recently for more than he bought it for without doing anything except maintenance. At a certain point, very high-end cars stop depreciating and start appreciating due to rarity. I'm not sure how much of a car guy you are, but if you're very interested, you might find similar opportunities.

Post: #36

(09-03-2017 01:20 PM)Running Turtles Wrote:  This is really not my area of expertise, but a friend of mine bought a used (ca 8 year old) Ferrari and drove it for a few years. Not a practical car by any means, but he sold it recently for more than he bought it for without doing anything except maintenance. At a certain point, very high-end cars stop depreciating and start appreciating due to rarity. I'm not sure how much of a car guy you are, but if you're very interested, you might find similar opportunities.

Correct. Buying a low-end luxury car via lease is less rational than buying a high-end older sports car on credit.

Post: #37

Leasing v buying should be neutral, because they do the math and estimate the value of the car at the end of the lease.

Leasing seems cheap because you don't pay for the car after the lease is over.

It also seems cheap because there is an up front payment and the monthly payments are less than the cost to finance the entire car.

But what you are doing is buying the most expensive years of a car. Much better to buy an offlease car since you get it at a discount. Check out offleaseonly.com

Also, the lease will limit you to a certain number of miles, impose charges for minor damage, etc.

Post: #38

(09-03-2017 02:10 PM)Hypno Wrote:  Leasing v buying should be neutral, because they do the math and estimate the value of the car at the end of the lease.

Leasing seems cheap because you don't pay for the car after the lease is over.

It also seems cheap because there is an up front payment and the monthly payments are less than the cost to finance the entire car.

But what you are doing is buying the most expensive years of a car. Much better to buy an offlease car since you get it at a discount. Check out offleaseonly.com

Also, the lease will limit you to a certain number of miles, impose charges for minor damage, etc.

I agree with him. I bought mine from Offlease and got a (3 years old) Range Rover Sport for 44k. Put really awesome looking Off market rims on it, and it looks better than new Stock models. Every girl loves it, looks sleek in front of clients / managers / other dudes. Very safe, very spacey. I mean nothing but upsides after the 44k price tag.

Post: #39

You guys should be aware of the fact that GM, Chrysler and Ford survived during the time where they produced butt-ass products only because of their financing division. Even the so-called 0% lease is in reality not that.

Leases can be as high as 15%+. Someone is raking in that cash and that cash is coming from someone - you!

Post: #40

Get a year or two year old Maserati Ghibli. They are pretty inexpensive compared to other luxury vehicles. No-one else would know except you and other car junkies.

Post: #41

(09-04-2017 08:47 AM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  Get a year or two year old Maserati Ghibli. They are pretty inexpensive compared to other luxury vehicles. No-one else would know except you and other car junkies.

They are quite a bit cheaper than their newer versions, but often have a poor track record of reliability and very expensive cars to maintain. Fun to drive, but will put a crimp in the pocketbook.

Post: #42

If you only expect to drive 10k miles per year, that shifts the bias toward leasing. Obviously you must negotiate. However, for a purchase, if you were willing to take it down a tier, I would recommend a Mazda 6. Also, seek out a standard transmission that will save you about 2k off the bat, maybe more with the bmw. If you have good credit you should be able to get .9-1.9% financing and although im not into financing generally, that's just free money seeing as you would feel like a chump if you could not turn $35k into 36,750 in 5 years. Often they will give you a $750 deduction if you finance, so you are really not paying much interest.

The internet is your friend. I printed out am internet offer for my wife's car, brought it to the dealer and he couldn't believe it, but honored it.

Post: #43

This website was mentioned here before, but deals like this are rare:

https://leasehackr.com/blog/2017/3/6/lea...nth-0-down