Post: #26

(06-20-2017 11:22 AM)IstillLoveVistaBaby Wrote:  This is something I've been researching into in my study of theology and Christianity. Jesus never lost control of himself, not once.

Two things:

(1) Whenever you ask yourself "What Would Jesus Do?", remember that crafting whips and overturning tables is within the parameters of the answer.

(2) As far as music being demonic and whatnot, Jesus had a potent and penetrating insight to offer: "It is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean, but what comes out of him." This was not just a reflection on Talmudic dietary laws, it was also a very powerful psychological observation: it's what you do that defines you, not what music you consume.

That said, music itself is a powerful persuasion tool, particularly in support of congregations; read your Cialdini on this one.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #27

It's not evil, but thumping rythm is obviously hypnotic on some brainwave level. The other extreme is some classical with no repetition or rythm, which I think I dislike more than even primitive rythm based music.

Post: #28

I think the OP makes a valid point, but only to a certain extent. EDM (a genre I cannot stand) absolutely does seem to be deliberately engineered to accomplish some sort of effect akin to this. Probably hip-hop too. These are both very dance-focused genres.

But rock music? I just can't buy it. The whole rock and jazz are the devil's music thing is Chick Tract silliness. The only popular rock music with a remotely African sounding beat was the very early stuff, from the 1950s. Rock is dramatically less danceable than soul, R&B, hip-hop, EDM, and other genres. If rock is supposed to get people to abandon their passions to the devil, it does a pretty lousy job of it, especially in this day and age. I go on YouTube and watch videos of artists like Led Zeppelin performing early shows to crowds of kids sitting down and listening intently. At most rock shows, kids bob their heads, and that's about the extent of it. Rock is rather academic and centered around the performance of it, rather than effecting the state of the listener (who usually needs to use drugs to get anywhere with that.) Plus, the rhythm often takes a backseat to the melody.

This is anecdotal, but I love music, mostly listen to rock, and have no interest in dancing or the types of music most people listen to for dancing. Aside from certain artists (mostly metal bands) that actually seem to believe in satanic stuff, as opposed to most that just use the imagery for shock value and don't really believe any of it, rock and its tropes are generally less intrinsically harmful than most other types of popular music. When I was a middle-school snot who wanted to offend his parents I used rap, because rock is usually so innocuous and has been that way for the past 30-40 years, at least.

Post: #29

The lyrics nowadays are pretty 'demonic'.

Post: #30

Post: #31

Definitely an interesting premise, although taking the pearl-clutching 1950's style preacher approach to dissecting this issue is not the way to go.

Also just as an aside, anytime anyone uses the word sheeple in whatever argument they are trying to convey, I have to work hard to stifle the urge to chuckle and disregard everything they say.

Put simply: yes, music can certainly be used as a vehicle to produced altered psychological and spiritual states, feel free to call that 'mind control' if you want it to sound more sinister. Some would even consider this ability as evidence that music is a form of 'magic', i.e. that every song is a kind of spell that produces changes in those who listen to it.

Music used to have much more ritualistic purposes in past times: with songs to strengthen the urges for violence before battle (think of the Haka for the Maoris as a great example), or songs to celebrate newborns in the tribe and wish them a good life, or to pray to the gods for a bountiful harvest. It is simply a way to amplify certain thought-forms in the consciousness of the listener. Think of it as a way of taking affirmations to the next level, by engaging in them on a much deeper sensory level (i.e. replete with rhythm, chanting and movement of the body).

In this day and age, however, people are often simply looking for the music that makes them feel 'alive', that gives them the biggest dopamine rush possible: as such, when you look at the formulaic nature of much of modern pop music it seems almost scientifically constructed for this very purpose rather than anything inherently nefarious as a primary motive. Due to decades of essentially scientific testing (as the record companies figure out what is most popular, what people respond to the most), you see certain themes emerge, such as the focus on very sensory, base urges of partying the night away, drinking, dancing, fucking, etcetera, as well as certain repetitive structures that have been proven over time to produce the strongest reward response in the brain (i.e. the build-up followed by the drop in EDM).

Feel free to disagree with me, but I don't think there's any kind of active mind-control thing going on here- simply decades of musical A/B testing resulting in a certain formula which is the most addictive ($$$) to the lowest common denominator. It's sort of like asking whether fast-food companies have some deeper purpose of poisoning humanity: no, they are actively working towards creating a product that creates the strongest, most immediate dopamine rush in the brain once it's consumed, the unhealthiness of it is secondary.

Post: #32

(06-21-2017 11:00 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  It's not evil, but thumping rythm is obviously hypnotic on some brainwave level.

I don't think it's a coincidence that musical tempo and heart rate are both measured in "beats per minute."

What's a normal heart rate for various cardiovascular activity levels?

Abormally slow: 40-60 bpm
Resting: 60-80 bpm
Walking: 80-100 bpm
Light Exercise: 100-120 bmp
Moderate exercise: 120-140 bpm
Intense Exercise: 140+ bpm
Maximum: 180-200 bpm


Check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempo#Basi...o_markings

Excerpt Wrote:Lento – slowly (45–60 bpm)
Adagio – slow and stately (literally, "at ease") (66–76 bpm)
Andante – at a walking pace (76–108 bpm)
Moderato – moderately (108–120 bpm)
Allegro – fast, quickly, and bright (120–168 bpm)
Vivace – lively and fast (168–176 bpm)
Presto – very, very fast (168–200 bpm)

Post: #33

(06-21-2017 01:11 AM)Mage Wrote:  Cat's murr is proven to cause healing as could be some music. A lot of it has to do with sound that is outside of human hearing spectrum too. Can it be it demonic in Christian sense - no. Can it be demonic in esoteric sense of having "demonic energy levels" and hurting your "chakras"? Yes!

Very interesting. Many cultures indeed thought music to contain supernatural powers. The Pythagoras used music in healing as well not to mention the hindu's om mantra, the mother of all sounds which is supposed to vibrate with your pineal gland when uttered.

Post: #34

1. During my college years, I have spent quite some time studying the psychology of music.

Music above +/- 110 BPM has been shown to raise stress hormones in your body and to negatively impact biomarkers of the immune response. From this it can be concluded that chronic exposure will make you more prone to infections and emotional instability.

I wouldn't call that demonic per se, but I wouldn't call it great either since all modern music is 110 BPM or above.

2. Music preferences are related to personality traits. The beats per minute, overall atmosphere and emotional undertone are the most important.

However, usually these kinds of relationships with personality are a two-way street. Chronic exposure to music might temporarily change your personality.

The glazed-over looks of entranced teenagers dancing to EDM, or the enthralling experience of drumming ACDC are named.

Wether it's dissociating oneself or hyping oneself up, there are consequences for your personality.

Do you want to be around others who are hyperactive or self-absorbed?

3) We are now in a climate in which a certain type of music is constantly pushed. Even if you don't like it, you will be surrounded by it. Kids grow up on it.

Chronic exposure due to peer pressure might have effects on the population as a whole. We as adult men should consider if we want those effects for ourselves and our families.

4) What strikes me the most personally, is how record companies use "voice framing".

We as humans are more sensitive to voice tone then the words being spoken.

You can say badass shit, but if you do it in a high-pitched voice no one will believe you.

It has been known in cult and therapist circles that it also works the other way around. The voice has an hypnotic quality. Instruct a follower to do your bidding in a empathic, rhythmic and expressive voice tone. He will deduce your intent from your voice tone, not from the exact words you used.

What this has to do with music?

Listen to this example by Rihanna:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e82VE8UtW8A

The lyrics could not be more explicit. But her voice tone in the chorus is calm, almost timid. Judging by the voice tone, you would never guess she is singing explicitly about rough sex. The words go into your brain anyway.

It strikes me that almost everywhere in the world, radio stations blast this song all day long. Many songs have a similar lyrical content and non-congruent vocal tone.

I wouldn't call it demonic. But I do have some questions. What will happen to a young brain if it's exposed continuously to a soothing voice describing explicit sex?

Post: #35

Interesting read on the subject of music and mental conditioning.
Long but very informative, OP might be happy with this

Post: #36

(06-21-2017 11:00 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  The other extreme is some classical with no repetition or rythm, which I think I dislike more than even primitive rythm based music.

Can you give some examples of what you mean? The only music I can immediately think of that's effectively rhythmless is bad improv jazz.

Post: #37

Music is just another form of communication; it's not inherently bad. It's a memetic vector with hypnotic potential, and so is every other form of art.

The message the music conveys is what's good or bad, which is in itself subjective.

If we don't like the message pop culture is pushing, we should put out our own messages. Which is what I've been harping on in the fiction threads for the last year. Trying to do something about the medium is utterly pointless.

Post: #38

How about the brown note, is that a real thing?

Post: #39

Most modern music is demonic in the sense that it's an assault on reason, integrity, thought, and progress. It's a symptom of the culture and the times we live in.

I'm not on board with all of Ayn Rand's thinking but I agree with her aesthetics.

The classical music of the romantic era to me represents the highest level of thought, coherent organization, and emotional expression. It's complex and rich. It requires deep understanding and calls the listener to a higher standard, both in the immediate sense of understanding the complexity of the music itself, and of life in general.

Most of today's music is an affront to the accumulated wisdom of the geniuses that have come before us. It lacks depth, musicianship, lyricism, instrumental timbre, ambitiousness, and hopefulness. It glorifies instant gratification by putting pop hooks front and center, kinda like making orgasm the sole point of sex.

The popular music I hear today is like kindergarten songs set to beats and then some ghetto moron mumbling something about money and the hood. Or some electronic bullshit that doesn't even feature any real instruments, with cliche buildups and a DJ yelling some stupid shit like "are you readdyyyyy?"

They play this crap at the gym I lift at nonstop and it never fails to annoy the shit out of me. One time somebody had the sense to put in Blood Sugar Sex Magik and I had the best training session ever.

Having said that, there are representatives of various genres that almost redeem the entire landscape. For example, Eminem's technicality and lyricism is beyond reproach. You might hate him, you might think his music is aural garbage, but I defy you to listen to him rap and tell me he isn't at the top of his craft, a virtuoso in his own right, even if you think that craft is crap to begin with.

That's another thing that's gone missing: virtuosity.

Today's music is hypnotic in the sense that ALL the inputs we receive influence us. The lyrics of popular music now are inane, crude, lascivious, mindless and repetitive. The music itself is so elementary and unoriginal. The artists that get glorified the most are sluts and drug addicts and criminals and faggots. How can people NOT be influenced by that? It's become the new norm.

If you play some Benny Goodman or Puccini or Dvorak for today's youth they just won't understand it. They'll think it's antiquated old person music for the most part.

I'm being very general because there's a lot of exceptions in both artists and the people who listen to them. But the standards of musicianship and lyricism have fallen so low, and the tolerance for crude disgusting behavior has risen so high, that a disgusting whore like Miley Cyrus is allowed to go onstage and shove her nasty STD-infected cooter in the face of millions of people.

50 years ago she'd be in an insane asylum and on a cocktail of antipsychotic drugs to treat her derilect brain.

Post: #40

^ Well, there is virtuosity at the production side.

Music producers are the ones innovating now. They are attempting to simplify popular music as much as possible. Some of them are great at this.

Not to say it's a good thing, though.

Post: #41

I agree with the posts about us not being that far removed from our animalistic monkey-like ancestors. Many human behaviors, especially when it comes to what could be considered "pre-mating rituals", come down to an ancient desire to propagate our genes. When you think about it, it's incredibly adaptive. Even those who consciously decide to not have children retain these built-in urges because they are necessary for all life to continue, which is the purpose of life- to copy our DNA.

As an aside, and please done ban me, I think these odd conspiracy theories about demons and conspiracies and lizard people all that stuff makes our movement look a little bad. In the same way that we chuckle at the weirdo burning man lefties and their crystals and pseudo-spiritualism, this Illuminati and area 54 stuff just provides fuel to the left.

Again, please don't ban me, I rather like it here.

Post: #42

I think the intentions are degenerate at least, satanic at worst. Like that story about how gangsta rap first grew into a separate genre to increase the prison populations by influencing stupid young black males to commit crime through the music, therefore making the private prisons worth more to certain shareholders of those companies.

I like seeing the debate this topic produces, hope to hear more of it.

Post: #43

demonic but dope.

It all boils down to how you were raised and where. Music can only influence you so much.

Post: #44

(06-21-2017 10:46 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  "It is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean, but what comes out of him."

Agreed. But keep in mind that music, unlike livestock, is also something which is put forth by man. It is both that which comes out from man and that which goes into man. Whorish music and generally music which promulgates an illness defiles he or she who makes it.

Another thing which comes out of man is the decision to return to such music. And he who consciously subjects himself and praises the defilement of others, in so doing, defiles himself. It seems the quote from Christ applies only to certain situations as that where one is subjected to the music not of his own accord and does not delight in it. Maybe a shopping mall, for instance, where Lady Gaga Pokerface is playing through the loudspeaker and you're just trying to get a fresh pair of undies.

Roger Scruton made a video about this topic, and I think it's worth a watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYua80VEcBk

Post: #45

If "the beat of modern music" is demonic, then I am pretty much Lucifer himself...