(07-21-2018 05:04 PM)mikado Wrote:  The thing is that Americans place a way bigger emphasis on race, contrary to Europe. See, Trevor Noah, the guy who called Africa the French team.

It's completely true that Americans are full of racial hangups while Europe is fairly colorblind, but EU and its (((fellow Europeans))) are doing their best to make us catch up. If nothing is improved, I predict only 20 years until we become much worse than USA in this regard. A sad end to our once peaceful continent.

(07-21-2018 12:51 PM)Rossi Wrote:  

(07-21-2018 08:04 AM)mikado Wrote:  Because the best players were not white.

Get over the fact that football is about winning, not just putting someone on because he is of a certain race.

You sound like the Belgians who are raging and revendicate their "best football team in the world cup" status, but in the end France is the champion, not them.

Who said that?


FIFA Balon dOr announce 3 best players every year in the world. If you take this award in consideration, since 2000, there were 45 nomination for white players and only 9 went to black ones, such as Thierry Henry, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos etc.

45-9 and you're saying "best players were not white."

This award has been around since 1950's, if you calculate from beginning, gap marging would be a lot higher as well. I just counted since 2000.

Well the Best From the U19 French Pool aren't the Players you're talking about!

(07-21-2018 12:24 PM)Parras Wrote:  

(07-21-2018 08:04 AM)mikado Wrote:  Because the best players were not white.

Get over the fact that football is about winning, not just putting someone on because he is of a certain race.

You sound like the Belgians who are raging and revendicate their "best football team in the world cup" status, but in the end France is the champion, not them.

I think I'm starting to see the problem as to why so many people are angry. The most important global event (World Cup) has been dominated by Europeans in the last 40 years or so with the exception of Brazil and Argentina.


2006 World Cup winners. Italian white guys





2010 World Cup winners. Spanish white guys




2014 World Cup winners. German white guys.




2018 World Cup winners. French Black guys.









I can see how this could have triggered many (WRT).

In 2010, Marine Le Pen said "I'm worried about immigrants being on the French national team, because they have another nationality in their hearts"

^^^ A lot of those people are awful quiet right now, because the majority of the French people are very proud of this team and are very happy that France won the world cup.

VIVE LA FRANCE!!!!

Now I'm starting to Get It. I'm not a Soccer Fan at all... so I didn't realized Soccer was not yet NBA'ed Yet! I truly thought the Winning World Cup Soccer Team would have been at least Half of this Representation already

   

I mean in life there's Give & Take. So soccer fans: the probability of your Cab Driver being non white will increasingly be similar with the probability of Who's Part of Soccer's Top Prize in the Game! If you're angry, which is totally understandable... be angry at Both though... cuz one comes with the other! IQ is the White Realm, and Physicality is the Black One! Give & Take.

(07-21-2018 08:04 AM)mikado Wrote:  Because the best players were not white.

Get over the fact that football is about winning, not just putting someone on because he is of a certain race.

You sound like the Belgians who are raging and revendicate their "best football team in the world cup" status, but in the end France is the champion, not them.

So the topic of demographic shift can't be discussed without condemning the orator as racist?

Of course professional sports are about winning, no one said they weren't. But when a minority non-native people over represent for the native ethnicity of a nation, eyebrows will be raised and questions asked.

Last I checked, asking questions and noticing changing demographics wasn't racism. But for some reason you're always suspiciously quick to dismiss any discussion of the matter while demonizing the person noticing as racist. Why is that?

(07-21-2018 06:47 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

(07-21-2018 08:04 AM)mikado Wrote:  Because the best players were not white.

Get over the fact that football is about winning, not just putting someone on because he is of a certain race.

You sound like the Belgians who are raging and revendicate their "best football team in the world cup" status, but in the end France is the champion, not them.

So the topic of demographic shift can't be discussed without condemning the orator as racist?

Of course professional sports are about winning, no one said they weren't. But when a minority non-native people over represent for the native ethnicity of a nation, eyebrows will be raised and questions asked.

Last I checked, asking questions and noticing changing demographics wasn't racism. But for some reason you're always suspiciously quick to dismiss any discussion of the matter while demonizing the person noticing as racist. Why is that?

We have an entire section dedicated to Politics. We have a Migrant invasion of Europe Thread, A migrant invasion of US Thread, We have plenty of threads for WRTs to Whine about "The Invasion". This is a thread about the world cup. Whether i agree with Zelcorpion or not is beside the point. The point is that this is about Football and he polluted it with his WRT whining. People just wanted to talk about football...

WRTs are basically SJWs and Vegans combined in how much they whine and annoy the general population. I'm not even gonna accuse him of being a racist because i don't care if he is or not. Fact is though his whining reached a point that it annoyed a considerable amount of people in this thread who wanted to talk about football.

(07-21-2018 04:57 PM)911 Wrote:  It's mostly a meritocracy, but there is also a systematic bias towards physicality above technical skills at the youth level which favors kids of west african descent.

A slight bias, yes, and it's because you can teach technical skills but raw athleticism cannot be taught.

Raw athleticism is also way overrated in soccer, which doesn't rely on this as much as american sports do. Most of the top football players in the world are pretty fit but not particularly "athletic": Messi, Modric, Hazard, Iniesta etc.

(07-21-2018 08:51 PM)911 Wrote:  Raw athleticism is also way overrated in soccer, which doesn't rely on this as much as american sports do. Most of the top football players in the world are pretty fit but not particularly "athletic": Messi, Modric, Hazard, Iniesta etc.

The game of football has changed. It's a lot faster. Except Iniesta and Modric the next two guys are pretty athletic. That's where the game is going now. Guys like ronaldo are athletic as well and it's not hard to add the technical dimension to their game.

In sports as nutrition and fitness becomes even more scientific than it is now. Having the physical edge over your competition will always grow in importance. I think you'll continue to see guys like per Mertesacker go extinct in the game while speedy wingers and center forwards become even more popular.

Just enjoy the beautiful game and spend your energy discussing who will be the next Ballon d'or!

(07-21-2018 09:13 PM)zigZag Wrote:  

(07-21-2018 08:51 PM)911 Wrote:  Raw athleticism is also way overrated in soccer, which doesn't rely on this as much as american sports do. Most of the top football players in the world are pretty fit but not particularly "athletic": Messi, Modric, Hazard, Iniesta etc.

The game of football has changed. It's a lot faster. Except Iniesta and Modric the next two guys are pretty athletic. That's where the game is going now. Guys like ronaldo are athletic as well and it's not hard to add the technical dimension to their game.

In sports as nutrition and fitness becomes even more scientific than it is now. Having the physical edge over your competition will always grow in importance. I think you'll continue to see guys like per Mertesacker go extinct in the game while speedy wingers and center forwards become even more popular.

I really disagree with the sentiment that guys like Modric/Iniesta who aren't particularly athletic are dying out as footballers. England are crying out for players like them- indeed, our best youth player Phil Foden isn't particularly athletic, but he sure has a lot of technical ability. Germany has Toni Kroos, he's hardly an athletic specimen.

The real shame would be if players in the mould of Berbatov, Cantona, Balotelli were replaced by workhorses such as Moussa Sissoko.

(07-17-2018 08:32 AM)Rossi Wrote:  Did France or England ever have black coach? I remember France having Domenech, he was also white.

No. Holland has though, well it depends if you consider Rijkaard black. Gullit is the current assistant manager.

A (white) work colleague plays at a semi-professional level. He was in the youth academies at several mid-rank Premier League clubs. At the work party when he'd had a bit to drink, his bitter side came out and he said something along the lines of: "all the clubs just wanted big black guys, so I didn't have a chance". In England, there's definitely a preference for physicality — so big dudes of West African descent like Pogba are preferred to someone like Messi. Messi probably wouldn't have made it had he come to England. In the modern day, Scholes probably wouldn't either.

Ironically, one of the league's notorious hardmen, Roy Keane was only 5"10 and about 11.5 stone (160lbs)... would he make it now as a midfield enforcer? I mean, he handled Vieira just fine, despite the size difference. This obsession with size is why our football is technically lacking compared to many other countries such as Holland and Spain.

@Teedub - Messi wouldn't make it in England because he is protected playing in Spain. Barcelona has built the team around him, he owes a lot too players like Xavi and Iniesta who are heavily underrated. Notice when Xavi left the team they seemed to lose a step.

Scholes was overrated, he is not in the same league as Xavi, Iniesta or even Modric.

The problem with English football is that there are far too many foreign players, I mean ALL foreigners not just the black ones.

Italy suffered as a football nation in the early 70s, what did they do about the situation! They got rid of foreign players in their league, until their national team got back to glory. The article shows how teams with more Italian players are doing worst in Serie A, than teams with more foreign players.

http://www.italianfootballdaily.com/opin...urris-del/

As for the English league, you only need to look at Manchester City and you can count the English "born" players on one hand.
England sadly wouldn't adopt the same policy, too much money involved and PC culture. Notice I didn't say anything about SJWs.
Is it true they are thinking of selling Wembley Stadium?
Can you imagine that they are going to sell of their national stadium.
I guess the English FA doesn't make enough money as is. Those Arab/Russian Billionaires must be padding their Swiss bank accounts nicely.

Modern football is a combination of skill, power and speed.

The English league is very physical and demanding. That is why teams favour certain types of players (e.g African).
As an Arsenal fan we have had some great players that had numerous injuries that ended or stalled their careers. Wilshere, Carzola, Eduardo and Diaby.

Like everything else, the game of football is evolving.

As Nietzche stated - adapt or die.

(07-21-2018 09:13 PM)zigZag Wrote:  The game of football has changed. It's a lot faster. Except Iniesta and Modric the next two guys are pretty athletic. That's where the game is going now. Guys like ronaldo are athletic as well and it's not hard to add the technical dimension to their game.

In sports as nutrition and fitness becomes even more scientific than it is now. Having the physical edge over your competition will always grow in importance. I think you'll continue to see guys like per Mertesacker go extinct in the game while speedy wingers and center forwards become even more popular.

Disagree on the first part - there's no way for a player to simply add a technical element to his game, nor should the lack of technical ability be overlooked just because a player is really fast. The game is moving in the direction of speedy forwards and wingers, yes, but the need for technical midfielders to find space and play them balls over the top or through lanes to run onto won't go away, if anything, they'll become just as valuable to those teams that have good pace up front.

Agree with you on the second part though - the slow, hulking center-backs like Mertesacker will definitely go extinct, as they won't be able to keep up with the speed of opposing forwards, and additionally, the black magic dirty tricks they'd use to try and discreetly foul a speedy attacker, will now get caught by VAR in most top-tier leagues. (Premier League won't have it this year, but likely to adopt it for 2019-20)

(07-22-2018 05:17 AM)floor7 Wrote:  

(07-17-2018 08:32 AM)Rossi Wrote:  Did France or England ever have black coach? I remember France having Domenech, he was also white.

No. Holland has though, well it depends if you consider Rijkaard black. Gullit is the current assistant manager.

Wasn't Dick Advocaat their coach? Last time Holland did succeed, Van Gaal was their coach and they finished 3rd in World Cup 2014.

@Rossi - it doesn't matter who their coach was, they have NEVER won a World Cup.

The Dutch are the biggest chokers in world football, to think they have created some of the best players ever to play the beautiful game.

As a kid, I thought Cryuff was the coolest player ever.

(07-22-2018 06:52 AM)Teedub Wrote:  A (white) work colleague plays at a semi-professional level. He was in the youth academies at several mid-rank Premier League clubs. At the work party when he'd had a bit to drink, his bitter side came out and he said something along the lines of: "all the clubs just wanted big black guys, so I didn't have a chance".

Yeah.

Here's the thing about that.

Blacks develop faster and enter puberty sooner about a year or so sooner, asians even later. Which is why in multicultural settings you have these divisions in youth sports, where seemingly some races never do well.

https://www.jwatch.org/jw200109180000005...es-puberty

Quote:Mean ages of boys at Tanner pubic-hair stage 2 (i.e., onset of hair growth) was 12.0, 11.2, and 12.3 years for white, black, and Mexican-American boys

You can have a situation where a 16 year old black kid is practically a full grown man, due to starting puberty sooner, and a white kid is only partially developed.

Then we have that whole "reclassifying back one year" thing which happens a lot in the US but probably also in the UK. Like a 17 year old moved back to play with 16 year olds.

This in essence means you can have an almost fully mature adult playing with kids only mid-puberty.

Want to guess who comes out on top in such a situation?

I can predict the rections to this post, but a year of puberty makes a massive difference in that age group.

Remember Freddy Adu? Yeah. That's what we saw there. A fully grown adult at age 15 (possible cheated on his birth certificate).

(07-22-2018 11:38 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  @Rossi - it doesn't matter who their coach was, they have NEVER won a World Cup.

The Dutch are the biggest chokers in world football, to think they have created some of the best players ever to play the beautiful game.

As a kid, I thought Cryuff was the coolest player ever.

They only "choked" in 74, because they came in way too overconfident and scored an early goal which threw off their concentration, they were at that point trying to put on a clinic and humiliate W. Germany instead of playing loose and focused the same way they dismantled Brazil and Argentina in the runup to the final.

In 1978, they were playing against a very good Argentina team playing at home, and they came awfully close to beating them (Neeskens' crossbar), no choke there.

Cruyff was a fantastic player, one of the top 5 all time greatest, but he was also a head case and a conniving schemer who has undermined his country's chance at the WC, due to his cliqueish tendencies, by shutting out a lot of world class players from the Dutch selection in 1974, most notably PSV goalkeeper Jan van Beveren, who was at the time not only the best Dutch goalkeeper, but also one of the best in the world. Jongbloed was the achilles heel of that 1974 side, conceding a weak goal from Gerd Muller in the final without any reaction, picture perfect lead feet.

Great writeup on Van Beveren here:

https://llandudnojetset.wordpress.com/20...t-talents/



Cruyff went on to undermine his team's chances by sitting out the 78 WC, when he was just over 30yo and still the world's best playmaker.

In 2010, the third final Holland was in, they just stunk it up, one of the worst WC finals ever, and they thoroughly deserved to lose. Spain played down to their level on that game, but overall they were a far classier side:





Note that Holland won the Euro in 88, they weren't "chokers". In fact it's a small country that's consistently punched way above its weight in the football world, and since the 70s, one of the best footballing nations.

(07-22-2018 11:16 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  @Teedub - Messi wouldn't make it in England because he is protected playing in Spain. Barcelona has built the team around him, he owes a lot too players like Xavi and Iniesta who are heavily underrated. Notice when Xavi left the team they seemed to lose a step.

Scholes was overrated, he is not in the same league as Xavi, Iniesta or even Modric.

Haha you never fail to take a jab at Messi when a situation allows you to!

Re: Scholes, completely disagree. If anything, he was underrated because he was English. You often mention Xavi and Iniesta I've noticed, you obviously highly rate them. And they agree with me regarding Scholes. So does Zidane, and Pep Guardiola...and, you get the point. Scholes is 'your favourite football player's favourite football player'.

Xavi

Quote:Paul Scholes is a role model. For me – and I really mean this – he's the best central midfielder I've seen in the last 15, 20 years.

I've spoken to Xabi Alonso about him. He's spectacular, he has it all: the last pass, goals, he's strong, he doesn't lose the ball, vision. If he'd been Spanish he might have been rated more highly. Players love him.

When I think about all I have won with Spain and Barcelona and all the great players I have played with - it is impossible for me to have any regrets..

Maybe one small regret is that I never got to play with Paul Scholes - but I was never going to leave Barcelona and he was never going to leave Manchester United.

Iniesta

Zidane

Quote:My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder. Scholes is undoubtedly the greatest midfielder of his generation.

I can do this all day!

P.S Since you're an Arsenal fan, I'll leave you with these two:





Paul Scholes is the best premier league player of all time - Thierry Henry.

Quote:'I don't think people have given him the credit he deserves. (He's) one of the best, if not the best, I've played against, he could do anything. Unfortunately for him, when he was playing for the national team, for England, sometimes people didn't see it like that.

'If I had a Paul Scholes in my team, everything would be around him. At Manchester United, they saw it like that, but I think Paul Scholes is one of the best I've played against in this league, and seen anywhere.'

Sorry to go overboard, I can't help it. He is literally seen as a genius by foreign players and coaches, and intelligent people within the British game.

"Paul Scholes is the best I've played with" - Cristiano Ronaldo... and he's played with Modric, who you placed above him.

The ESPN ticker has been running a story about the German player Ozil all day long. I saw it about 10 times this morning at the gym (and I was just casually glancing at the screen). At any rate, Ozil is a German player of Turkish origin and he's quitting the national team, claiming he was subject to racism. If you miss the story, no worries! ESPN will remind you 100 more times throughout the day.

Full story here: Ozil Leaves Germany Amid Racist Accusations

My suspicions about the ticker at ESPN are being confirmed. The writers don't live in Bristol, Connecticut. Instead, they work in Yonah Shimmel's Knish Bakery on the Lower East Side.

(07-23-2018 01:23 PM)MajorStyles Wrote:  The ESPN ticker has been running a story about the German player Ozil all day long. I saw it about 10 times this morning at the gym (and I was just casually glancing at the screen). At any rate, Ozil is a German player of Turkish origin and he's quitting the national team, claiming he was subject to racism. If you miss the story, no worries! ESPN will remind you 100 more times throughout the day.

Full story here: Ozil Leaves Germany Amid Racist Accusations

My suspicions about the ticker at ESPN are being confirmed. The writers don't live in Bristol, Connecticut. Instead, they work in Yonah Shimmel's Knish Bakery on the Lower East Side.

That's the story of the day in English and in Italian media as well. It's pretty entertaining.