Post: #26

Folks, in 2017, self-improvement has to be for oneself, not to chase pussy.

Hypergamy is a preference function on the quantile (top 20% no matter what), not on an absolute preferred value. With the connectivity increase from social media, that 20% is more reachable than ever before AND of more highly preferred (w.r.t women) since the set size increases.

In conclusion, women have more bargaining/market power than ever before. The only solution is for us men to:
a) collude against female preferences by rejecting suboptimal pussy and, on a posteriori basis, not wifing up sluts, voting against welfare, voting against women, etc.)
b) quit the market (sex dolls, MGTOW, prostitutes,etc.)

I should write a matching article on ROK....

Post: #27

(05-07-2017 02:10 PM)ziggystardust Wrote:  I doubt any of the people doing the 'predicting' understand the term paradigm shift. It's much like the rise of nationalism (yes, this is a thing) among young people, in spite of mainstream propaganda attempting to quash it.

Regardless, in decades to come the conversation will not be about how many men are hooking up via online, but wether males should bother wasting time learning game and pursue real women or just have equal or better sex with robotic dolls along with augmented reality (VR).

If you want to see where most western countries are headed, in terms of relationships, look to Japan. It will be MGTOW as the cultural hegemony.

Actually, you don't understand the term at all. It's a concept created by T. Kuhn, who was a philosopher of science (though with a degree in physics), and the concept aimed to show a qualitative change in understanding and doing science in particular domain, especially in physics. A key example is a shift from Newtonian mechanics to relativistic mechanics. Sadly, these days, the term became so popular, it's used and abused left and right.

Post: #28

(05-07-2017 04:36 PM)robreke Wrote:  They will in certain foreign countries.

They also will in the West if you have high enough perceived value.

With either stronger value than hers and some attraction or simply strong attraction, they will.

If you have higher perceived value than them and and solid attraction, that's where the real cheesecake is.

Can you define value?

Post: #29

"Just improve your value" is simplistic and naive.

If you have already maximized your value as much as you possibly can and you are coming across better than 95% of men, this is still often insufficient, because the combined effects of developments in technology and feminism are in more cases than not sufficient to nullify your improvements, even if you have improved massively. Even if you do see positive results from self-improvement, all other things being equal, you would have almost certainly received far greater positive results from that very same amount of self-improvement before smartphones, "advances" in feminism etc.

I cannot see the "bubble popping" or the "pendulum swinging the other way" unless there is some massive catastrophe/cataclysmic event which affects the entire western world to the extent that the contributing factors to this phenomenon are erased or diminished to a tiny fraction of previous dominance. Even then, it might take a full generation to take effect because the current generation of western women in their prime (18-24) are likely to have attitudes from previous experiences.

Only a decade ago, when smartphones and internet were not widely used by women, simple SMS and email on PC for more detailed messages seemed like such a great thing. I remember long detailed emails back and forth between me and various girls which actually made our relationships better; they added depth much like a good, long heart to heart - times when communication was not restricted to a single picture or less than X characters.

I remember having to teach girls how to switch on their computers, I created an email address for some of them, taught them how to use email. Once we began to write to each other, the fact that we had exchanged such letters "in private" away from our peers added an element of secrecy and "us against the world". Sometimes there would be secrets not even spoken, but which we both knew. It helped to develop romance and passion. Never in a million years did the thought "is this girl going to respond" enter my mind. She was my girlfriend FFS. And she loved both talking and writing to me, more than I did.

If you had told me the default 10 years later, I would have struggled to get my head around it. CBT therapists maintain that the depressed predict irrationally negative outcomes. Well, I must have been mentally ill, but in the opposite direction, psychotic, possibly, for never would I have predicted the destruction that would ultimately result from mobile phones combined with the internet.

Now a girl only has to turn on her phone and it's a neverending bombardment of "Want some dick?" "Want some dick?" "Want some dick?" every second of every minute of every hour of every day. It's like that skit, I think it was Chris Rock (I may be wrong here), but now it all comes out of that little phone in her hand.

A girl not responding by text after I have banged her? What on god's green earth are you talking about? Girls were basically stuck to you like glue after you had sex! Something completely unnatural and perverse would have to happen to make this natural order of things suddenly reverse. Me chasing a girl after we had sex? The chase is over, surely? What? I have to continue to game her AFTER we have had sex to even get her to reply to a text message again, let alone meet again? Jesus, what have you done?

I can see intent behind the "increase your value" argument, but sometimes huge external shifts outpace you and you're left with worse even though you are "better". When I was in college, I was learning french and found a penpal site. I thought writing to a guy would be a bit gay so I wrote to a girl. We wrote letters, email and actual letters, fairly regularly. We saw each other on our primitive webcams and we both thought it was pretty cool. About a year later we finally met and it was great, everything just resumed in real life as it had online. I didn't have intentions to meet a french girl when I signed up, "it just happened". In those days, I was BP and believed in merging of the souls and all that gay shit. But there I was, in Brittany, with a sweet french girl who looked better than her pictures, making love in the attic bedroom of her parents' countryside cottage. Now I know game, the nature of women, I have improved myself, I can cold approach, I am so much better than I was then... but there is no way in hell I can do what I did back then. The same countryside french girl has access to so many men and so much attention even in her small town or village that it's pointless to even think that shit is possible anymore. And that's just one example. In the old days of Myspace you could just sort girls by zip code and they would be responsive, down to hang out and look just like their pictures. This is with a real shitty Myspace profile, no Justin Bieber lifestyle pimped out Instagram stuff here.

Some ideas: North Korea style censorship/banning of smartphones/banning of dating apps/banning of social media/removal of welfare/removal of universal healthcare (applies mostly to western Europe)/banning female vote/imprisoning SJWs/imprisonment for attention whoring/imprisonment for whiteknighting/removal of women from workforce other than in nursing and day care. Also, it seems that a decreased standard of living makes the situation better; countries which are too wealthy seem to be the worst countries as far as responsiveness of women goes.

Post: #30

(05-07-2017 05:06 PM)McCarthy Wrote:  The only solution is for us men to:
a) collude against female preferences by rejecting suboptimal pussy...

Never gonna happen. Scroll through the "i-just-had-sex" thread right here on this forum, and you'll see plenty of guys hooking up with 5s and 6s.

The thirst is real.

Post: #31

Hey guys, new poster but long time lurker here.

I've been noticing recently that whenever I lock down the digits of millionaires or influential tastemakers/media icons/politicians at networking events or private parties, it's almost like I gotta pursue them.

Weird.

It's almost like these busy people who are in high demand at the peak of their success have a lot of opportunities available to them and aren't really seeking me out to offer me value or mentor me.

What gives?

Post: #32

(05-07-2017 03:32 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Women were never meant to initiate conversation with (in general, BUT there are times they do).

Men are the ones who LEAD the initiate, conversation, date, etc.

100% on board with this view.

The best barometer for how interested a girl is in you is not how often she initiates text conversations with you. If she's hot, she may never initiate a text conversation with you (might be a pride thing).

The best barometer for how interested a girl is in you is how available she makes herself to you.

If she's showing up to the dates and hangouts you set up and is inviting you to hangout with her, who cares who initiated the text convo?

Post: #33

(05-07-2017 09:56 PM)Suits Wrote:  Hey guys, new poster but long time lurker here.

I've been noticing recently that whenever I lock down the digits of millionaires or influential tastemakers/media icons/politicians at networking events or private parties, it's almost like I gotta pursue them.

Weird.

It's almost like these busy people who are in high demand at the peak of their success have a lot of opportunities available to them and aren't really seeking me out to offer me value or mentor me.

What gives?

You're missing the point of the thread.

GymBro is saying that he notices it doesn't happen anymore. He's noting a change, not a constant.

Personally, I've only been in this game for a year, so this is all I know, but girls never pursue me over text.

Post: #34

(05-07-2017 07:52 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  I can see intent behind the "increase your value" argument, but sometimes huge external shifts outpace you and you're left with worse even though you are "better". When I was in college, I was learning french and found a penpal site. I thought writing to a guy would be a bit gay so I wrote to a girl. We wrote letters, email and actual letters, fairly regularly. We saw each other on our primitive webcams and we both thought it was pretty cool. About a year later we finally met and it was great, everything just resumed in real life as it had online. I didn't have intentions to meet a french girl when I signed up, "it just happened". In those days, I was BP and believed in merging of the souls and all that gay shit. But there I was, in Brittany, with a sweet french girl who looked better than her pictures, making love in the attic bedroom of her parents' countryside cottage. Now I know game, the nature of women, I have improved myself, I can cold approach, I am so much better than I was then... but there is no way in hell I can do what I did back then. The same countryside french girl has access to so many men and so much attention even in her small town or village that it's pointless to even think that shit is possible anymore. And that's just one example. In the old days of Myspace you could just sort girls by zip code and they would be responsive, down to hang out and look just like their pictures. This is with a real shitty Myspace profile, no Justin Bieber lifestyle pimped out Instagram stuff here.

You literally described how I got a summer Croatian girlfriend. I literally pipelined a hottie without even knowing I was doing that. We had extremely long conversations through gmail talk. One week before me leaving, she PRINTED those conversations and gave them to me.

How things have changed... for the bad.

Too much communication these days.

Post: #35

I believe because women come into contact with so many men now the Maybe group of girls shrinks and they feel they have been hit on by the full range of men the world has to offer.

On the flipside I think the Yes girl bin is also bigger for any man because from said experience women jump on a guy they really want after filtering through so many warm and lukewarn prospects when they find one that aligns with their tastes closely.

I know personally now after having been in contact with so many women I am more likely to throw away my Maybes faster and jump on my Yes's. Talking about my feeling on a girl this last sentence rather than how she feels about a
man hitting on her.

So yes some os superficiality some is also genuine in the way that a person with enough experience can tell within a 5 minute conversation or nowadays I guess a profile even down to the way the person smiles or nods their head if they will really click and enjoy each others' company. The average girl has the social instincts at the same level as experienced players with high social IQs. It's like having Netflix compared to cable. You will only watch a show if it really piques your interest.

When you find that show though you often binge watch because it matches your tastes so well.

Post: #36

I am sure most of members are 10 or 20 years older than me, so i didn't experience the old dating scene. Instead of that, I lived and still visit a small town where the average girl was a 4 and it was really hard to find anything above 6. High bitch shields, high flakiness,bad ratios,dangerous environment(If you approach the wrong girl in a club, Someone can put a gun in your face) plus the Facebook/snapchat/tinder attention whores.

At the end, this is how the actual world works. I completely agree with Dantes. Talking about Why girls don't write first is meaningless. Despite of that, i disagree that self improvement is limited, Maybe i am too optimistic, but improving my game has helped me to get results in that hard environment.

Also, Guys blaming the attention that girls get online while these guys are the ones who are commenting, liking girls's photos and relying exclusively in Online dating, so What do you expect?

One the first thing that i learned in game: Girls are attracted for guys with higher value than them. I believe that We have to use everything in our advantage and if the girl are crazy for the social media, find the way to show higher value and call their attention By social media and others. Just my final word is that i prefer to improve myself and fight to be "THE GUY", instead of cry and write post How difficult is to get lay now and missing the old good days.

Post: #37

I heard a Justin Timberlake song in Serbia recently. Hook line was "baby come on put the technology away come sit on lap let me show you the way".

Look if Timberlake has to whine and compete against phones....

Post: #38

(05-08-2017 08:03 AM)Drix Wrote:  Also, Guys blaming the attention that girls get online while these guys are the ones who are commenting, liking girls's photos and relying exclusively in Online dating, so What do you expect?

This.

However, the prime reason for girls getting the attention and options in the current climate was creation of these platforms (online + social, which, in turn are a logical consequence of internet and www services). Ironically, these platforms were created by males, not females.

These few enablers (aka businessmen) who created online platforms and social media sites cashed out big time with a benefit for, what, say, 1% of men with top looks? But banging a 6 off online doesn't really count, we're not in a game for that.

What happened is a massive asymmetry of who calls the shots. Prior liberalisation era, when women have had restricted access to well-paid jobs, education, pill, voting, etc., it was a man's world. Now we ushered into women's world. Ironically, again, various polls done by scientists show that women are less happy than they used to be. Again, ironically, men were enablers of all of that. I'll repeat - all of these inventions, as far as I can tell, were made by men.

Henceforth, I'm afraid that the females can't really be put that much to blame, they just use tools to their advantage that are out there and, as a result, they cash out on them big time. Let me ask rhetorically, who wouldn't?

Women in XXI just leverage to stratospheric levels, what they've been offered since time immemorial, namely if they want some dick.





I can cold approach a girl, implement good text game, get her on a date with good date game, make out with her, then never hear back again. Why? Because she's got so much dick offered without getting off a fucking (pun intended) couch!

As some posters mentioned, in the past, a girl would register being cold approached on a street as something unusual. Also, her options would've been much, much more limited. If she weren't social, go out at night, try to get embedded in social circle, her options to date men she'd deem viable options, would've been limited on a given day of the week. She'd have a few to choose from, not few hundreds.

The only three possibilities that can cure the situation, to a certain extent, are:

a) formal ban of online dating sites introduced by government

and/or

b) all men taking collective action to stop using online platforms.

and/or

c) introduce counter-technology

Neither a) nor b) is going to happen, the only one I can think of is c). Now, game is a some sort of equaliser but in this arms race it only allows not to stay behind but not, in most cases, getting ahead of female prerogative (attention, no sex, instead the other way round). Few men, excluding top 1% have enough will, time, dedication and resources to max out their value through game and associated activities.

We can whine and moan, complain and curse but let's not forget - men enabled all of this. Luckily, we have RVF, other forums, blogs and all the game to evolve our capabilities to not stay behind but it seems it will not be possible to get ahead any time soon.

So what a man's got to do? Perhaps, the only viable option is, to use Round Table's key motto:

Adopt, adapt, and improve.

It will not, in most cases, allow to have it easy lunch off the table, but with at least intermediate day game, night game, and social game some respectable results should be obtained. And by respectable I mean banging girls 7+ on your terms.

Post: #39

(05-07-2017 07:52 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  Now a girl only has to turn on her phone and it's a neverending bombardment of "Want some dick?" "Want some dick?" "Want some dick?" every second of every minute of every hour of every day. It's like that skit, I think it was Chris Rock (I may be wrong here), but now it all comes out of that little phone in her hand.

This. And most of us here know this already but it's almost another thing entirely when you're with a girl and you see her phone blow up with messages like this.

In fact I saw it happen to a girl who plays on our sand volleyball team last night. She is a 5 AT BEST, and pretty big. She must have received three separate messages within five minutes from guys just over Facebook alone. Take that and multiply it by 1000 for girls on the dating sites.

At the present time technology and society is providing the perfect storm for female hypergamy. Having high SMV only buys you a little more time with these females. You'll be replaced soon enough with the push of a button.

Post: #40

(05-07-2017 09:18 AM)GymBro Wrote:  If I'm not pulling a girl from a bar or club I'll usually settle for a number. I also get numbers from dating sites.

5-10 years ago I'd often have girls initiate conversations via text, ask me how my day is going, blow up my phone etc.

Nowadays I've noticed that girls never initiate - even girls I've danced and made out with. A lot of my messages also go unanswered. If I don't make an effort, they'll drop off forever.

Has anyone else noticed this over the years? Why is this happening now? How do you deal with it?

Thats Toronto for you in a nutshell.

Post: #41

(05-08-2017 08:57 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  You'll be replaced soon enough with the push of a button.

Pretty much everything is being progressively replaced. Retail is going away in favor of ecommerce. Physical media and cable is going away in favor of on-demand streaming. And more and more jobs are being displaced in favor of robots and A.I., even in the developing world. Meanwhile Elon Musk started a company to try to build the Matrix brain-computer interface.

When it comes to legitimate concerns about the future I would focus on charting a path through looming career chaos first and women second. In my case I am lucky enough to have fallen into programming so my job is one of the least likely to be replaced. Pussy, I have trouble with, but not cash-flow.

The reason online dating is becoming more popular than nightclubs is the same reason ordering shit through amazon is more popular than going to the mall and streaming netflix is more popular than buying and managing a DVD or blu-ray collection. It's all about convenience, discression, and multi-tasking.

...

Now how it is young adult women can afford to live a carefree lifestyle of swiping and partying without worrying about where their next paycheck is coming from is a mystery to me. I know the employment numbers are good these days, but I'm sure a lot of that is under-employment. What I see in the Boston area for younger women who pass the boner test are nurses and bartenders. So they are changing bedpans in nursing homes and getting people drunk.

Post: #42

(05-08-2017 10:28 AM)questor70 Wrote:  In my case I am lucky enough to have fallen into programming so my job is one of the least likely to be replaced.

So am I and a number of others on the board. I don't, however, share your optimism - it's also the kind of job most susceptible to offshoring, and with advances in AI and tooling, and globalization, wages will stagnate (if they haven't already) and possibly start to decline at some point.

Post: #43

(05-07-2017 11:49 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

(05-07-2017 03:32 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Women were never meant to initiate conversation with (in general, BUT there are times they do).

Men are the ones who LEAD the initiate, conversation, date, etc.

100% on board with this view.

The best barometer for how interested a girl is in you is not how often she initiates text conversations with you. If she's hot, she may never initiate a text conversation with you (might be a pride thing).

The best barometer for how interested a girl is in you is how available she makes herself to you.

If she's showing up to the dates and hangouts you set up and is inviting you to hangout with her, who cares who initiated the text convo?

This is the truth. Men are naturally hunters unless they have that Cristiano Ronaldo look/wealth etc and 9s n 10s have to be shooed away.

And how women respond matters most to me than them trying to initiate anything. It's been about 5 years since any woman I've ever met has been the first one to initiate a meetup with me.

If they're flaky from the get go from not responding to a ? and I can tell with zap which often tells you when they were last online.... I have my special "flaky meme" I troll each and everyone of them with.

After they feel guilt or downright dumb for not replying for a day or 2, suddenly I always get the : "I'm sorry I've been so busy with work" blah blah.

OP lives in Toronto which is probably the flakiness capital city in NA. These bimbos will have some 40/45 hr a week work schedule and make it seem like they live some CEO lifestyle running a fortune 500 company.

I find it common to make out with a girl at a club without being able to close. And when I contact to escalate she'll have "forgotten" even meeting.....with "who is this " ? Or: "I think you've got the wrong number"?

Post: #44

What pours vinegar on the wound is that in today's SMP you're not competing with distinguished and socially intelligent gents like the ones found on this forum, but rather men who send unsolicited Facebook messages to women saying things like "wow stunning!!!" and "why u ignoring me babe" and "hey hun just about to jerk off to ur pics."

Post: #45

(05-08-2017 01:45 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  "hey hun just about to jerk off to ur pics."

It's part and parcel of the decline of western civilization ala Idiocracy.

Post: #46

Skank_Hunt is right.

In this day and age even if you increase your looks/value to beat out 90% of men it can still be an uphill battle. You're still competing with hundreds of thousands of men. And who has the time to dedicate all their time to game? Without some type of fame it takes a lot of work and time. For years I've never totally enjoyed the way the dating game has become. I would much rather spend a few hours with a chick, build something, and see her again. These days it's spend a few hours and try to get her alone or most likely never see her again. Pussy is all the same, without some type of bond once you nut she doesn't mean shit.

You can see this trend to the top everywhere you look. The gap between the very wealthy and the middle class, sports, academics, it's everywhere. When I started training in BJJ years ago, having a black belt was unheard of. Now they're everywhere. Back in the day you had nothing except your instructor and perhaps an old beat up VHS tape with a Brazilian dude with bad English. Now you have the internet and you can teach yourself any move you desire. Of course you still need real world experience, but it's helping make people better than ever before.

Combine that with other trends in the West, and the pickings are slim indeed once you get above 30. Sure you can get laid, but if you're looking for anything committal forget it. Of the several women I work with the vast majority have either cheated or been cheated on.

In a sense it's became a race to the top and a race to the bottom. Competition is becoming fiercer and at the same time the degeneracy train has no brakes.

These trends eventually will reach a tipping point. As the inequality in the sexual market place increases, it will produce lots more angry men. A large population of angry men causes unrest, unrest eventually leads to war. Eventually enough of the male population dies and things reset for a bit. Technology is also accelerating this decline. Technological unemployment is becoming very real, and once those millions of truck drivers are replaced by driverless cars, things will go down.

I take solace in the fact that these trends have been repeated throughout history. We build, we go to war, we destroy, and we rebuild...the story goes on and the song remains the same.

Post: #47

I'm waiting for the women to be sick of this. Will things ever become great again?

Someone build "Roosh Island" and let's move all of us there LOL

(05-08-2017 06:39 PM)Neo Wrote:  Skank_Hunt is right.

In this day and age even if you increase your looks/value to beat out 90% of men it can still be an uphill battle. You're still competing with hundreds of thousands of men. And who has the time to dedicate all their time to game? Without some type of fame it takes a lot of work and time. For years I've never totally enjoyed the way the dating game has become. I would much rather spend a few hours with a chick, build something, and see her again. These days it's spend a few hours and try to get her alone or most likely never see her again. Pussy is all the same, without some type of bond once you nut she doesn't mean shit.

You can see this trend to the top everywhere you look. The gap between the very wealthy and the middle class, sports, academics, it's everywhere. When I started training in BJJ years ago, having a black belt was unheard of. Now they're everywhere. Back in the day you had nothing except your instructor and perhaps an old beat up VHS tape with a Brazilian dude with bad English. Now you have the internet and you can teach yourself any move you desire. Of course you still need real world experience, but it's helping make people better than ever before.

Combine that with other trends in the West, and the pickings are slim indeed once you get above 30. Sure you can get laid, but if you're looking for anything committal forget it. Of the several women I work with the vast majority have either cheated or been cheated on.

In a sense it's became a race to the top and a race to the bottom. Competition is becoming fiercer and at the same time the degeneracy train has no brakes.

These trends eventually will reach a tipping point. As the inequality in the sexual market place increases, it will produce lots more angry men. A large population of angry men causes unrest, unrest eventually leads to war. Eventually enough of the male population dies and things reset for a bit. Technology is also accelerating this decline. Technological unemployment is becoming very real, and once those millions of truck drivers are replaced by driverless cars, things will go down.

I take solace in the fact that these trends have been repeated throughout history. We build, we go to war, we destroy, and we rebuild...the story goes on and the song remains the same.