(06-11-2017 02:06 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 04:34 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  Do your homework and then come back with REAL questions or unique insights that will add to the discussion. Don't pollute such a valuable thread with easily google-able questions, it's a waste of your time AND ours when 99% of everything that's been asked the last week or two has already been answered a dozen times over.

Fair enough, I suppose I deserve that. (I just spent the last hour reading this alt-currency thread and watching blockchain videos while doing cardio at a box gym and listening to chillstep , so if nothing else, your suggestion has made this the most late 2010s day I've ever had in my life.)

The problem with googling stuff is that I don't know what I don't know, to steal Rumsfeld's phrase. I can watch some youtube videos, obviously, but there's so much misinformation out there that as a beginner it's impossible to figure what's good information and what's bad information. This market seems to consist of 5% people interested in the potential of the technology itself, and 95% speculators, which means there's a tremendous incentive to spread fake news and drive market activity in whatever direction you want, so I'm very leary of anything I read. I'm not saying that everybody on this board is a saint or an investing genius, but this forum attracts higher-quality people than say, reddit, or god-knows-who on youtube. (And also you can get rich with a high-pagerank site full of lies, but you can't get rich by lying to the 20 or so people in this thread, so there's less incentive to fuck people over.)

I recognize that your time is valuable, of course, and that's why I wrote my question in a way that it could be answered with a paragraph of "Go here, do this" and "Yes that's reasonable." as opposed to "Guys tell me what blockchain is."

But that said, after having read it, here are some questions that will hopefully add a little more value.

1.) Etherium is going up in price in an insane amount. What's driving this increase? I can't seem to find solid data on this. Is it that bitcoin just too damn expensive at 2000 a coin? Does BTC have structral problems that make it unusable long term? (I've read that the average time a bitcoin takes to be processed is now 43 minutes.) I googled BTC blockchain issue, which is the term I saw Gmac use in his discussion with me, and I have a basic understanding of the problem. If this is the case, is etherium positioned to avoid these issues if it were to grow into a BTC replacement?

2.) One of the big triggers for etherium's rise seems to have been its introduction to a major Chinese exchange. Are there other exchanges that do not yet have etherium, and would its eventual introduction there drive the price higher?

3.) This kind of quick rise, which is then followed by a crash seems to have been replicated with several other bitcoin alternatives. But when I look at the market cap for ETH it seems to be dwarfing anything except BTC. Have any alternative coins grown into something with the market capitalization of ETH in the past?

4.) My own feeling, based on my experience in the tech industry, is that tech fields tend to have one big company and one smaller competitor. Intel and AMD. Eat24 and Grubhub. Uber and Lyft. Etc. etc. (With obxious exceptions like Sirius and XM back in the day, or amazon which just completely dominates the market.) The smaller competitor typically has something that differentiates it from the bigger competitor, for instance lyft's not paying its drivers jack shit, while the larger gets by on name recognition. In this case, the differentiating factor between BTC and ETH is A.) the weird app stuff, which I understand conceptually but am having a hard time putting into practice and B.) the amount of interest by larger companies. Is this sane?

These may still be stupid questions, but hopefully they're a little more valuable than what I asked yesterday.

Surely it does help that you describe some of the research that you have already done or the reason(s) for your various conclusions. In the end, you may or may not spark others to respond, and likely you end up answering a lot of your own questions or at least pose questions in a tentative theory way that will help you to bring those up again or to identify information that contradicts or supports your theory.

Yes. There is a bit of wild wild west in crypto land, and some of the dynamics are still working out, and you seem to have tentative theories that are just as good as the theories of the rest of us, who have been studying that matter longer.

It is not always clear whether one crypto is over valued or undervalued or whether one crypto or another is going to take market share - or if the cryptos may be supporting different markets.

So many of the crytpos are so difficult to judge because their track record is so short, and even if they have a longer track record, you still need to make various judgements concerning how they may distinguish themselves from others and whether they add value.

Regarding the misinformation and disinformation out there, sure it is nice to interact with RVF guys because it is a smaller community and frequently you can attempt to get them to explain their position. Yet, even RVF guys can frequently be mislead by mainstream news - happens to me frequently. So, in the end, each of us needs to attempt to take our sources with a grain of salt, and sure this forum allows a way to ask questions about sources adn even certain theories that you may find persuasive.

Even though some of us have stronger opinions than others on certain topics or certain spins, there is nothing wrong with having a lot of questions and posing them, and surely it helps when you are also asserting some of your own tentative answers, which possibly you would just let those tentative answers stand if no guys contradict you are challenge your tentative answers.

By the way, my tentative theory is that we have a kind of symbiosis price relation going on between the cryptos - and we don't always know which one(s) are going to perform better, but generally they are all currently going up, which is likely to last at least another 5 weeks - Thereafter there will be some extreme downs, and maybe some will go down more than others and maybe some will go up while others go down. Also, I believe that we have another minimum of 6-9 months in which considerable money is going to continue to come into the crypto space - but we have to watch these dynamics as they go in order to see how they play out and which ones may come out on top or split or possibly suffer a complete death.

(06-11-2017 02:15 PM)Stun Wrote:  

(06-11-2017 03:30 AM)Travel Museums Wrote:  Some alt coins are worth pennies or dollars. BTC is worth thousands. So essentially a few dollars increase in BTC/USD drives the price of my altcoin/BTC plunging.

Is this accurate? Does that essentially make my alt coins/BTC a hedge against falling BTC/USD.

For reasons I'm only beginning to understand, ALTs are best measured against BTC or ETH (or both) rather than fiat. Some of the reason is many alts can only be purchased with BTC/ETH, and also BTC functions as sort of a "reserve" currency. I'm still researching this further, and will report back.

Re your question about arbitrage, this was asked and answered thoroughly, because that was one of the first questions I had. Search this thread and the bitcoin thread, the answers about arbitrage are in there somewhere.

There may be a lot of us who are engaged in a kind of accounting mumbo jumbo when it comes to figuring out taxes - I suppose if guys are trading less than $10k a year, then maybe there is not really a considerable risk if they were to get caught for failing to report, but when the amounts become higher then at some threshold point guys are going to feel that they need to make some kind of accounting in regards to fiat. Even if there is an exchange from one asset class to another asset class, the value would be measured in fiat - but still guys would need to decide whether to account for every single trade and which exchanges may be traceable by their government agencies.

Yeah I'm not looking forward to the taxes. I have a wire transfer set up in a few days. Planning to dollar cost average and make a big investment in ETH and LTC. I'm debating whether to do Dash and BTC. I feel like BTC is overpriced and dash is on another exchange.

(06-11-2017 02:06 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  I recognize that your time is valuable, of course, and that's why I wrote my question in a way that it could be answered with a paragraph of "Go here, do this" and "Yes that's reasonable." as opposed to "Guys tell me what blockchain is."

My earlier post wasn't directed at you (or any single poster in particular); we've simply received a large influx of new folks in the crypto threads who obviously went straight to post and never bothered to read the thread itself.

Quote:1.) Etherium is going up in price in an insane amount. What's driving this increase?

Great question. Complicated and multi-faceted answer.

Much of it is speculation. The vast majority of crypto projects (Ethereum included) are still in development, so the market is trying to figure out what potential value could end up being realized should Ethereum become a new decentralized internet. It's hard to say when we have yet to build any real projects/websites/apps on top of the blockchain yet.

Another big reason for Ethereum's manic rise is related to Bitcoin's stagnation. For years now the Bitcoin community has been deadlocked in a Mexican standoff trying to figure out how to scale transaction capabilities to service a rapidly growing user base. While they've bickered back and forth, the network has become incredibly congested and confirmation times and fees are both at record highs.

In the meantime, competitors have taken the internal combustion engine from Bitcoin's Model T (blockchain technology) and are realizing they can use it to build motorcycles, airplanes, double-decker buses, etc.

Bitcoin is valuable because it does one thing very well: provide a free, open-source, borderless, censorless, inflation-proof financial system. Ethereum is showing it can do that (and more), and at this point it's doing it better than Bitcoin.

Quote:2.) One of the big triggers for etherium's rise seems to have been its introduction to a major Chinese exchange. Are there other exchanges that do not yet have etherium, and would its eventual introduction there drive the price higher?

The short answer is "yes". The Chinese are still mostly obsessed with Bitcoin, though, and I don't think we've yet begun to see major Ethereum traction there. Hopefully this upcoming blockchain conference (and the EEA announcements during) will spur additional interest now that their largest exchanges are carrying it. You can check out the volume rankings by exchange to get a better/more updated idea of where and how money is coming into crypto.

As far as new markets, Russia seems very interested (Putin recently met in person with Vitalik Buterin, the creator of Ethereum) and of course there are billions of people in second- and third-world countries like India, Pakistan, Nigeria, Venezuela, Angola, Argentina, etc. where rampant government corruption has resulted in a devalued/hyperinflated money supply and often draconian capital controls.

While the modern banking system deprives the vast majority of people on this planet access to the modern global economy, crypto will let them buy/sell/trade/lend/borrow/etc. using nothing more than a basic smart phone and an internet connection.

Fuck the central banks; thanks to crypto any person on this planet can now be their OWN central bank.

Quote:3.) This kind of quick rise, which is then followed by a crash seems to have been replicated with several other bitcoin alternatives. But when I look at the market cap for ETH it seems to be dwarfing anything except BTC. Have any alternative coins grown into something with the market capitalization of ETH in the past?

Since the alt coin market exploded into existence back in March, the top 5 or 10 coins have all moved up and down the list, with tokens like Ripple briefly displacing Ethereum as #2. But it has always reclaimed its spot and now seems to be gunning for Bitcoin at #1.

A big part of making money in this market is doing enough research to recognize legitimate projects/technology early on, and not getting caught in the (often whale-manipulated) pump 'n dumps aka "shitcoin roulette".

Quote:4.) My own feeling, based on my experience in the tech industry, is that tech fields tend to have one big company and one smaller competitor. Intel and AMD. Eat24 and Grubhub. Uber and Lyft. Etc. etc. (With obxious exceptions like Sirius and XM back in the day, or amazon which just completely dominates the market.) The smaller competitor typically has something that differentiates it from the bigger competitor, for instance lyft's not paying its drivers jack shit, while the larger gets by on name recognition. In this case, the differentiating factor between BTC and ETH is A.) the weird app stuff, which I understand conceptually but am having a hard time putting into practice and B.) the amount of interest by larger companies. Is this sane?

The analogy I like to use is that Bitcoin is like SMTP, the protocol that enables email, while Ethereum is TCP/IP, the basic protocol/communication language of the internet itself.

Like I wrote above, Bitcoin has one singular application. Ethereum has, theoretically, an unlimited number of potential applications, of which a decentralized financial network is only one.

Then again, the increased flexibility of the Ethereum programming language provides a larger attack surface than Bitcoin, which prioritizes security over everything else.

Quote:These may still be stupid questions, but hopefully they're a little more valuable than what I asked yesterday.

These were great questions; I hope my replies were helpful. Glad to have you on board the crypto train.

(Just be aware that, much like the Trump Train, the crypto train also has no brakes!)

Top quality answer.

Everything I'm seeing about this, and everything I know about psychology, tells me that these are about to take off in a big way.

Some more money came in that I didn't particularly have a use for, so I upped my planned buy. I've now got about 8 of these things, let's see what they do.

If they go to shit and I lose all my money, then that's a great lesson to me that I don't know nearly as much as I think I do, which is probably worth the money I spent on them.

(06-11-2017 05:57 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  ....

Another big reason for Ethereum's manic rise is related to Bitcoin's stagnation. For years now the Bitcoin community has been deadlocked in a Mexican standoff trying to figure out how to scale transaction capabilities to service a rapidly growing user base. While they've bickered back and forth, the network has become incredibly congested and confirmation times and fees are both at record highs.

In the meantime, competitors have taken the internal combustion engine from Bitcoin's Model T (blockchain technology) and are realizing they can use it to build motorcycles, airplanes, double-decker buses, etc.

Bitcoin is valuable because it does one thing very well: provide a free, open-source, borderless, censorless, inflation-proof financial system. Ethereum is showing it can do that (and more), and at this point it's doing it better than Bitcoin.
.............

Hey Isaac,

I have a hard time disagreeing with almost anything that you say - but there is something that seems off about your ethereum / bitcoin comparison.

I know that I have responded to your posts on this topic before, but should it not seem difficult to suggest that there is something outmoded about bitcoin - when it's continuing to reach ATHs, and not in any kind of slow way.

We have pretty large exponential growth in BTC since $890, and it looks like this week, we have a pretty good chance at the $3300 to $3600 price territory.. Sure, BTC has not reached that $3300 to $3600 price territory, yet, but it's hardly dying or even losing market share to ethereum.

Yes, I understand that the market share argument is made a lot, and even suggestions that ethereum can do everything that bitcoin can do (but better), and the same arguments can be made about bitcoin allowing for sidechains. In the end, it seems that Ethereum cannot be denied as a prominent player, and surely it is coming very close to surpassing bitcoin's market cap, but these trends cannot be called as inevitable or foregone - because they have to play out, and fair enough that you are projecting Ethereum to surpass bitcoin's market share -

Now, if we talk about downside, instead of upside, I really doubt that bitcoin has a downside that is greater than Ethereum - but I can understand that some guys have already come to that conclusion, and it is fair enough for them to make their bets and their investment plans according to their views about both upside and downside possibilities as they see them.

It could be possible that we each understand the symbiosis that is going on in this space, even though we are using different words to describe what we see and different words to describe upwards and downwards potentials and whether we believe that there is some zero sum game competition going on - however, in the end, even if Ethereum goes 5x bitcoin, bitcoin can continue to have strong use cases and several use cases that overlap with Ethereum. The same is true with the opposite, even though you seem to recognize that there are some potentially serious security flaws with Ethereum - and you seem to almost assume that Ethereum is going to be able to weather some of its security vulnerabilities (like it did with the DAO). Sure, it could be true that Ethereum is going to be able to weather any potential upcoming security vulnerability(ies), but since we have not had sufficient examples of those, besides the DAO, we are going to have to see how that plays out - because it seems that the more that the value of the assets on the chain and the better liquidity of off loading it, the more it becomes a target for a large variety of economical attack.

In the end, we have to be really careful to the extent that our discussion might be either assuming too much about the future or downplaying serious matters, such as security vulnerabilities of any of the assets, whether that is bitcoin, ethereum or any of the coins or blockchains built upon them

Apologies for asking stupid n00b questions, but I was wondering some things when I read your post.

(06-11-2017 07:47 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I have a hard time disagreeing with almost anything that you say - but there is something that seems off about your ethereum / bitcoin comparison.
I know that I have responded to your posts on this topic before, but should it not seem difficult to suggest that there is something outmoded about bitcoin - when it's continuing to reach ATHs, and not in any kind of slow way.
We have pretty large exponential growth in BTC since $890, and it looks like this week, we have a pretty good chance at the $3300 to $3600 price territory.. Sure, BTC has not reached that $3300 to $3600 price territory, yet, but it's hardly dying or even losing market share to ethereum.

Is the growth in bitcoin due to long-term confidence in the bitcoin community... bitcoin... people? Designers? God I don't even know what kind of language to use for this. Let me try again. Is the growth in bitcoin due to investor's long-term confidence in the ability of bitcoin to remain viable in the face of increasing transaction fees and processing time, or just an increased awareness of cryptocurrency in general? I know if it wasn't for this thread I would've gone into bitcoin because it's the name I know. Information about the problems it's facing isn't readily available to non-savvy investors, and my impression is that a LOT of nonsavvy investors are pouring into this field. This isn't the stock market, where the majority of investment money is driven by highly educated guys with IQs in the 140+ range, or even computer algorithms.

The "bitcoin is outmoded" argument seems to stem from underlying technology issues, and because of the nonsavvy investor community I don't think they'd be properly priced into the coin's value. Given this fact, do the ATHs prove anything about BTC? Am I misreading the nature of bitcoin investors?

Quote:Yes, I understand that the market share argument is made a lot, and even suggestions that ethereum can do everything that bitcoin can do (but better), and the same arguments can be made about bitcoin allowing for sidechains. In the end, it seems that Ethereum cannot be denied as a prominent player, and surely it is coming very close to surpassing bitcoin's market cap, but these trends cannot be called as inevitable or foregone - because they have to play out, and fair enough that you are projecting Ethereum to surpass bitcoin's market share -

Now, if we talk about downside, instead of upside, I really doubt that bitcoin has a downside that is greater than Ethereum - but I can understand that some guys have already come to that conclusion, and it is fair enough for them to make their bets and their investment plans according to their views about both upside and downside possibilities as they see them.

It could be possible that we each understand the symbiosis that is going on in this space, even though we are using different words to describe what we see and different words to describe upwards and downwards potentials and whether we believe that there is some zero sum game competition going on - however, in the end, even if Ethereum goes 5x bitcoin, bitcoin can continue to have strong use cases and several use cases that overlap with Ethereum. The same is true with the opposite, even though you seem to recognize that there are some potentially serious security flaws with Ethereum - and you seem to almost assume that Ethereum is going to be able to weather some of its security vulnerabilities (like it did with the DAO). Sure, it could be true that Ethereum is going to be able to weather any potential upcoming security vulnerability(ies), but since we have not had sufficient examples of those, besides the DAO, we are going to have to see how that plays out - because it seems that the more that the value of the assets on the chain and the better liquidity of off loading it, the more it becomes a target for a large variety of economical attack.

In the end, we have to be really careful to the extent that our discussion might be either assuming too much about the future or downplaying serious matters, such as security vulnerabilities of any of the assets, whether that is bitcoin, ethereum or any of the coins or blockchains built upon them

What specific security vulnerabilities are you referring to? I found and read this article, and wasn't overly impressed. The same author came back here and said that many of his concerns had been addressed.

(06-11-2017 08:56 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Apologies for asking stupid n00b questions, but I was wondering some things when I read your post.

There is nothing wrong with some questions that are kind of n00b questions. There is some self-regulation in this, right? because if you are getting the sense that your questions are too nOOb, then maybe you may need to add something to the mix, such as your experiences and/or logic. If you are both asking and contributing, then we are likely accomplishing our forum objectives to help each other to help ourselves in self-improvement.

(06-11-2017 08:56 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(06-11-2017 07:47 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I have a hard time disagreeing with almost anything that you say - but there is something that seems off about your ethereum / bitcoin comparison.
I know that I have responded to your posts on this topic before, but should it not seem difficult to suggest that there is something outmoded about bitcoin - when it's continuing to reach ATHs, and not in any kind of slow way.
We have pretty large exponential growth in BTC since $890, and it looks like this week, we have a pretty good chance at the $3300 to $3600 price territory.. Sure, BTC has not reached that $3300 to $3600 price territory, yet, but it's hardly dying or even losing market share to ethereum.

Is the growth in bitcoin due to long-term confidence in the bitcoin community... bitcoin... people? Designers? God I don't even know what kind of language to use for this. Let me try again. Is the growth in bitcoin due to investor's long-term confidence in the ability of bitcoin to remain viable in the face of increasing transaction fees and processing time, or just an increased awareness of cryptocurrency in general?

Guys participating in this thread and forum seem to have all kinds of ideas in regards to this topic, and to some extent we are getting off topic for this thread because you are asking about bitcoin, even though bitcoin does have some relation, in my view, to a combination of confidence in bitcoin and also money that is flowing into all of the crypto space. You cannot just separate out one crypto in order to attempt to describe growth or price appreciation because there is some symbiosis that seems to be going on and even to be able to attempt to predict price direction(s).

There are people who bet in order to attempt to bring one asset down and there are people who bet to bring the asset up and there are spam attacks and disinformation spreading. All of this is taking place simultaneously, and we have to decide which factors to take more seriously in order to attempt to determine how to allocate our investments.

So, yeah, bitcoin and ethereum are offering different products, but sometimes when people are speculating, they don't even necessarily get down to whether there is any actual use case or what that use case is, so long as the price of the asset goes up after they invest into it.

(06-11-2017 08:56 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  I know if it wasn't for this thread I would've gone into bitcoin because it's the name I know.

Sure, bitcoin does have the most name recognition, so that will likely help in some regards. Developing use cases can also help, so if some folks are learning about various ICOs then they will likely learn about Ethereum, and even Ethereum is becoming more well known by folks who begin to look further into the matter, beyond the name recognition aspect.

(06-11-2017 08:56 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Information about the problems it's facing isn't readily available to non-savvy investors, and my impression is that a LOT of nonsavvy investors are pouring into this field.

Yes. You gotta be careful if you conclude too soon about what is the good information and what is the bad information, so yeah, in the end there is a lot of conflicting stories out there. Whether you believe the "low down" about the supposed problems in bitcoin is another question too, regarding the extent that the "problems" might be exaggerated too, even by well meaning folks. So, ultimately, you need to decide for yourself how you want to approach the matter and the extent that you want to continue to look into the matter after you have made your investment choices. I frequently will remind guys that they are not locked into their initial choices, but they can also chose a strategy that allows them a more incremental choice set, rather than betting too much in one direction or another that will possibly cause them to feel locked in, especially if the market moves against their investment choices.

(06-11-2017 08:56 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  This isn't the stock market, where the majority of investment money is driven by highly educated guys with IQs in the 140+ range, or even computer algorithms.

Exactly, it is the wild, wild west, which can bring some advantages and some disadvantages.

An advantage is that you can structure your own trading and entry points and get into systems quite easily and cheaply.

A disadvantage is that you can be robbed of your coins.

(06-11-2017 08:56 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  The "bitcoin is outmoded" argument seems to stem from underlying technology issues, and because of the nonsavvy investor community I don't think they'd be properly priced into the coin's value. Given this fact, do the ATHs prove anything about BTC? Am I misreading the nature of bitcoin investors?

I think that you might be misreading the nature of bitcoin investors and maybe even trying to simplify too much. I doubt that you are doing this on purpose, but there is a lot of conflicting information out there, and bigger players try to manipulate various markets in order to move regular people to do certain things, but sometimes even the manipulators lose control over the price and they cannot keep the price down, for example so they are forced to go with the trend, which currently is up.

Yes, a correction can happen at any time, and then there can be a variety of narratives that describe why the correction happened or assert that bitcoin is dying. Several of those narratives have been hot and heavy in bitcoinlandia since the price was at $250, so just from that you gotta realize to take some of that spin with a grain of salt, and understand that some players (big or small) are going to see value in spite of the narrative. Furthermore, from time to time, the narrative is going ot play in such a way to exacerbate a situation, so in that regard, bitcoin has a tendency to overshoot expectations, so if the price is dropping the drop could be longer and lower than expected and the same is true about upwards price movements. But sometimes, you expect more price drop and it does not happen because there is an inability to manipulate the price any lower or a variety of other related reasons.

(06-11-2017 08:56 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Quote:Yes, I understand that the market share argument is made a lot, and even suggestions that ethereum can do everything that bitcoin can do (but better), and the same arguments can be made about bitcoin allowing for sidechains. In the end, it seems that Ethereum cannot be denied as a prominent player, and surely it is coming very close to surpassing bitcoin's market cap, but these trends cannot be called as inevitable or foregone - because they have to play out, and fair enough that you are projecting Ethereum to surpass bitcoin's market share -

Now, if we talk about downside, instead of upside, I really doubt that bitcoin has a downside that is greater than Ethereum - but I can understand that some guys have already come to that conclusion, and it is fair enough for them to make their bets and their investment plans according to their views about both upside and downside possibilities as they see them.

It could be possible that we each understand the symbiosis that is going on in this space, even though we are using different words to describe what we see and different words to describe upwards and downwards potentials and whether we believe that there is some zero sum game competition going on - however, in the end, even if Ethereum goes 5x bitcoin, bitcoin can continue to have strong use cases and several use cases that overlap with Ethereum. The same is true with the opposite, even though you seem to recognize that there are some potentially serious security flaws with Ethereum - and you seem to almost assume that Ethereum is going to be able to weather some of its security vulnerabilities (like it did with the DAO). Sure, it could be true that Ethereum is going to be able to weather any potential upcoming security vulnerability(ies), but since we have not had sufficient examples of those, besides the DAO, we are going to have to see how that plays out - because it seems that the more that the value of the assets on the chain and the better liquidity of off loading it, the more it becomes a target for a large variety of economical attack.

In the end, we have to be really careful to the extent that our discussion might be either assuming too much about the future or downplaying serious matters, such as security vulnerabilities of any of the assets, whether that is bitcoin, ethereum or any of the coins or blockchains built upon them

What specific security vulnerabilities are you referring to? I found and read this article, and wasn't overly impressed. The same author came back here and said that many of his concerns had been addressed.

Yes, if Ethereum prices are going up and does another 50% increase in a week from $220 to $350, then any guy can start to feel a bit more comfortable with Ethereum.

I am not a coder, so a lot of that I read is second hand in regards to Ethereum vulnerabilities. I guess that the essence of my understanding is that it is well known that Ethereum is much more easy to get the adoption of code into ethereum or to get programs or code to run on ethereum, and so in that regard, it is logically more vulnerable to attacks or bugs or scams because the code is easier to get onto the platform or embedded into the platform. Also, a lot of this is new (less than a couple of years and in some cases there are programs being implemented on ethereum on an ongoing basis, several weekly). bitcoin has been tested for more than 8 years, and there are fewer new additions, and just those practices cause the possibility of more vulnerabilities in ethereum as compared with bitcoin.

Gee you make a whole big deal for months about people talking about ethereum in the Bitcoin thread. Then you come in here like you are sort of authority for "n00bs", and just talk about BTC.

Wow. This is beyond bitcoin or ethereum it's one thread the Blockchain thread. All you did was clutter the lifestyle forum with not one, but two threads, about basically the same thing. Cryptocurrency.

Speaking of the DAO and your mention of security flaws. You have no idea what you are talking about shouldn't be saying anything related to ethereum in this thread. It is misinformation and harmful to other RVF members.

Can you explain in two sentences (not ten paragraphs) what happened exactly in specific, technological terms? I don't think you actually understand what happened other than there was a "hack".

(06-12-2017 12:50 AM)Armogan Wrote:  Gee you make a whole big deal for months about people talking about ethereum in the Bitcoin thread. Then you come in here like you are sort of authority for "n00bs", and just talk about BTC.

Wow. This is beyond bitcoin or ethereum it's one thread the Blockchain thread. All you did was clutter the lifestyle forum with not one, but two threads, about basically the same thing. Cryptocurrency.

Speaking of the DAO and your mention of security flaws. You have no idea what you are talking about shouldn't be saying anything related to ethereum in this thread. It is misinformation and harmful to other RVF members.

Can you explain in two sentences (not ten paragraphs) what happened exactly in specific, technological terms? I don't think you actually understand what happened other than there was a "hack".

Regarding the DAO attack: If you believe it is necessary to educate us or correct me about my discussion of that then do it.

My understanding is that the programing language of the DAO allowed the DAO hacker to take advantage of language in the contract language in order to allocate a very large portion of all DAO funds to him, and so within 90 days or something like that he was going to be able to cash out the Ether that he had gotten through the contract language.

Instead of allowing the DAO hacker to benefit from finding the DAO loophole, the Ethereum foundation hard forked Ethereum in order to write back the DAO language or something like that. ETC was formed because there was a pretty decent following that did not like the idea of forking Ethereum for those kinds of DAO hacker protection reasons.

So, yeah it seems to have been a programming language problem of the DAO that affected ETH, and caused a situation in which centralization type decisions were made to advantage the DAO losers, so they did not lose from the DAO.

Sure, there may be better ways to explain, to the extent necessary, I don't know. I don't claim to be any kind of expert, and I am just explaining from my understanding of the DAO and the forking that resulted.

I also think that there are a lot of folks who are quite surprised by the recovery of both ETH and ETC after the forking and the situation around the DAO attack. Some folks thought that these circumstances were going to cause the death of both ETH and possibly even ETC - but both ETH and ETC were able to recover from this, and surely ETH has upwardly exploded much more than ETC.. and maybe the whole experience even demonstrates how much people are willing to throw money into a whole hell of a lot of ICO (Initial Coin Offerings) that are based merely on a white paper, and in a lot of cases, the code has not even been implemented but could have some similar buggy flaws (once it gets to the code implementation level).

Again, I am attempting to describe balls and strikes in a lot of this, and mostly I am not trying to spin matters. If I get facts wrong, then I would appreciate correction because I am not trying to trick anyone in terms of my discussion of what I believe are relevant, substantive and material facts.

Anyone buying into Bancor?

Just broke $400 (at $410 as of writing). What a massive increase over the last few days. Seems like it was only a week ago we were discussing whether to buy in at $210!

Cracked nearly $430 at one point and now it's going back and forth around the $400 mark. Would not be surprised to see this hit $500 today. Over $6B in new capital overnight, largely invested in ETH.

   

Edit: Down to $380 now. Highly volatile.

Getting a bit crazy now. I have no idea what's going to happen now. My gut feeling says we're bound to see a crash this week somewhere, I hope I'm wrong.

Traded some Ethereum to BTC at $400 on Poloniex.
Used it to diversify my cryptoportfolio with some more expensive alt coins I couldn't afford earlier today

I had originally planned to test out Bittrex. But transferring from Coinbase to my new Bittrex account is taking too long!
What are you guys experiencing. About an hour or two? And this was just a small test amount...

ETH is headed higher than $400, but BTC was headeding down from $2900. Was this a good trade?
BTC was not a hold. It was an immediate medium of exchange for Dash/BTC & XMR/BTC.
I actually had overly optimistic buy limits out on these two that went unfulfilled.
Canceled them out and just bought for the current ask. I was able to execute before a $200 price drop in BTC
I am correct in my logic that this trade netted me some extra BTC? Because I got out of my BTC at $2880 instead of below $2700?
Even though ETH might have gone up another $10?

Let's discuss diversification. After some research delving into the actual community/application of alt coins I sketched the following:

Quick Transaction Currency
Dash

Anonymity Currency
Monero
Zcash

Storage & Media Currency
Emercoin
Library
Florin

Token Creation, ICO, & Transfers
Waves
Ripple
Wings

Fun/Fad Currency
Dogeccoin

Token projects:
ZrCoin

Conversion:
Coinomat
Shapeshift

It seems like Monero has a solid following on the Dark Web. I read about the Note platform having a compromise that allowed hackers to steal coins though. It's advantage over Zcash is it's anonymity is automatic. Though Zcash has a potentially higher level of security by incorporating CoinJoin.

Dash has been adopted by a major gift card company. They abandonded bitcoin because it was taking too long. It seems to have a solid niche use and community. But with ample room to grow if other platforms adopt it.

I only researched Florin and Library. The decentralized library of Alexandria will use Florin to fuel it's exchange. It is more developed than LBRY which I noticed was getting pumped and dumped a few days ago. Not much on Emercoin. I saw it on Wikipedia. Anyone?

I'm a little confused on the token/ICO platforms. I researched all three yesterday and forget the details. Waves platform seems to have had at least one or two successful launches but it's 6 month delay and jerky founder cause it to be undervalued. Ripple might have been the one that was first to market and now being used by big business and lost some of it's freedom? Wings seems to be focused on AI token ICO.

I should have trusted my instinct more, empty my bank account and buy as much ETH as I could.

Well, so far it's been a 15-20% increase since I bought some. Let's see if this crashes or keeps going.

Unless you are actively day trading or timing the dips for those small multipliers, I agree it's better for most to just hold. I missed out on a portion of this last boom but it was a good lesson.

Francis Hunt thinks ETH could hit 1k by the end of the year.

I tell you, you can't even sleep with this shit going on. You miss a ton.

Thank god I listened to some of the big guns on here and never got rid of all my ETH.

I am looking the change Eth/$ 20 times per day... very stressing and useless. I need to stop that if I hold my eth one year

trade more than once a day? would that even be possible? don't fiat >< coin trades take days to process?

Anyone fuck around with Poloniex CoinoIndex before it was delisted?

http://forklog.net/how-to-invest-in-top-...same-tool/

(06-12-2017 11:33 AM)Travel Museums Wrote:  trade more than once a day? would that even be possible? don't fiat >< coin trades take days to process?

Anyone fuck around with Poloniex CoinoIndex before it was delisted?

http://forklog.net/how-to-invest-in-top-...same-tool/

With Coinbase/GDax once you add funds from your bank you get access to a "USD wallet" where you can trade back and forth between USD and ETH, if you choose to. There's a weekly $ limit though.

You guys remember that British clown making all sorts of scary lines on the ETH/BTC saying it was gonna drop to .07 ETH/BTC.

Hah what a joke.