Post: #1

Is it really possible to obtain a high degree of Intrinsic validation while living in modern liberal societies.

As I believe instrisic validation is a akin to stoicism and the corner stone of western civilisation. And macrocosm like microcosm, renders the individual also as strong, powerful and competent.


My main questions are ....

How did you achieve intrinsic validation ?

Is it possible to maintain it, especially in very materialistic/nihilistic places such as New York or London ?


I believe that in cities that are more geared towards women, in terms of sexual market value, culture, politics. It becomes harder to find ways to centre yourself and exercise your masculinity.

I am currently living in London, which is very gynocentric. I have some good friends, but it is an isolating place, simply due to the culture. Despite being one of the world's biggest financial centres, there is a severe lack of ambition floating around. Unless you are in the big skyscrapers that dominate the city skyline.

Further to this, there are no places for intellectual debate. That landscape is dominated by anti intellectual marxists, in other words I feel starved of oxygen in this city. When I was younger, I was on point and highly motivated, and I still am when it comes to career and business.

However it really is wearing me down to the point where I am posting this topic, to try and find some sources of inspiration.

I have found that recently, I have delved into a a series of oneituses over women, which is not like me, at least not since I was a teenager and I've been incredibly deflated at times.

Currently I am working in a very demanding emergency service role, which I enjoy albeit stressful. I am working on my location independent skill sets and a project, so in the future I can move on. However I feel as if I am running away from what would be a great opportunity, for to develop that state of stoicism

Hopefully this topic can spark some discussion around methods of developing internal validation, even if it is beating the dead horse a bit.

Post: #2

Here is a strong piece of advice:

Stop cluttering your mind and your life with vague, mealy-mouthed, and useless abstractions like "intrinsic validation"; and instead, be honest with yourself -- as much as possible -- about your actual wants and desires; and in addition, have a realistic sense of what is achievable -- and on what timeframes -- as well as of all the things you already have that you take for granted but really should not.

You ask:

Quote:How did you achieve intrinsic validation ?

Is it possible to maintain it

It is possible to achieve, and then maintain, an erection, or having 1 million dollars in the bank, or the ability to squat 225 lbs to the rested bottom. It is not possible to "achieve" and "maintain" "intrinsic validation" because the entire concept is vague, ill-defined, and virtually meaningless. What you are really asking is, how do I feel better about my life? It's a very simple question and all the questions you are asking are, in reality, features of basic masculine psychology. Don't feel the need to dress them up with chatter and weak abstractions.

Here is the most important passage from your post -- the passage the tells one everything one needs to know:

Quote:I have found that recently, I have delved into a a series of oneituses over women, which is not like me, at least not since I was a teenager and I've been incredibly deflated at times.

You should recognize that this is not some incidental observation, but is what lies at the heart of the discontent you are experiencing. You are erotically frustrated; and by this I don't mean the need to blow your load in a hole, but the need for a female companion that would complement you, and give you affection, sensuality, and, indeed, validation of a very particular and non-intrinsic kind. That is what you are missing, and without it you are unmoored and at loose ends, like so many other men. There is no need to look any further than that.

Now, given that this is the state of affairs, you should then ask yourself how and when you can achieve the thing that you so crave and desire. And while I don't know your exact circumstances, the answer may well be that it's not so easy to achieve it in the near future. There is one big thing that the manosphere and this forum are not wrong about: and that is that today's western women, particularly in the big cities but really everywhere, have a LOT of problems, to put it mildly. Unless you are in a very good position, the task of finding a satisfactory mate -- which can be frustrating and uncertain under the best of circumstances -- may not be so easy and may take you some time, perhaps even years. Of course you could also get lucky and meet the gal of your dreams tomorrow, but I'm talking about what is likely.

Given that this is the situation, you might as well recognize it and accept it for what it is. You should realize that you are erotically frustrated, and that you may well, despite your best efforts, remain in that state for a while to come. You should also recognize something else: that while eros is a big part of life, it's not all or even most of it.

Erotic frustration is not a small thing, and to have to experience it is very unfortunate. But there are so many other things that you do have: your health; a decently paying job with prospects of growth and advancement; good friends (according to your own words); and a big city that, for all its flaws, offers a great deal in the way of interest, variety, and diversion. You should take a careful census of these things, really slow down and think about each one of them in turn. And you should, slowly and over time, find a way to take interest and satisfaction in various parts of your life, even while a big part of it remains unfulfilled for now. This is not very easy to do, but if you do it you will really have achieved something that will make you a better and more complete man and worthy of respect and that will indeed "validate" you for whatever that is worth.

I wrote about some of these ideas in this post from a few years ago which you may also find of some interest:

/thread-37819.html

In short: forget about the nonsense concept of "intrinsic validation", and think with honesty and realism about your actual psychological needs, eros being the main one. Make a realistic assessment of what is and is not achievable in that sphere, and how long it might take. And lastly, recognize that even while you are fundamentally unsatisfied in this realm, you can still have a good and interesting life -- not perfect, not ideal, but good and interesting -- and that making the effort to take interest in things outside of yourself even when you are dissatisfied with a big part of your life is what will, over time, make you a better, deeper and more interesting man and will help you lead a more various and enjoyable life. It's all up to you.

Post: #3

Appreciate the words of wisdom Lizard of Oz, you are right, most certainly. Essentially, take the good parts of your life and see it for what it is right now.

I read the post you linked to me, I enjoyed it when I first read it a while back and it still rings true today. It is an important component in life, no denying that. It is going to stay like this for a while most likely, mainly because while I live here, I am just working around the clock. Plus the culture here is so strong, that most people you come across will be moulded by it. I could ignore it before when I was younger, but now I don't have the energy to.

I will just use this time to focus on the things that I can do. And try my hardest to keep remembering that. I see a lot of other men on the same path in our early to mid 20s, we are focused on self improvement but despite these efforts there is still something missing. I had this conversation with a good friend of mine, who is a boxer, very athletic and massive into stoic philosophy. He has pretty much came to the same conclusions, about this lack of balance.

Post: #4

(04-30-2017 01:28 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  Appreciate the words of wisdom Lizard of Oz, you are right, most certainly. Essentially, take the good parts of your life and see it for what it is right now ?

Well, it's a bit more than that. To recap:

1. Recognize that the main source of your discontent is almost certainly erotic frustration -- again, not the need to get laid but the desire for a female companion to complete and "validate" you. That is what comes out of your post and is the reason for the series of infatuations that you talk about. You should be honest enough with yourself to see this.

2. Given that this is the case, make a realistic assessment of how and when you can address your erotic frustration by finding a suitable mate. It could happen soon, but more likely it's something that will take a while, maybe even years. I really don't know and it depends on your situation but it's true that many men have a lot of problems with this right now and the problems may not be easy to solve and they may not get solved quickly.

3. If this is the conclusion, then you should accept it and realize that you are likely to remain frustrated for a while to come.

4. At the same time, you should remember that while eros is a big part of life, it's not the ONLY part. And there are many other ways in which you can have a good and interesting life, and many things you already have (presumably) like physical health, a decent job, good friends, a city where you can see many things, etc. Think of all these things in turn and understand their value.

5. Making the effort to be interested in things outside of yourself -- slowly and over time, without forcing anything -- even while you remain frustrated with a big part of your life is something that will improve your mind and character and will make you into a more interesting man and someone genuinely worthy of respect. And more importantly, it will allow you to live a more various and enjoyable life, and will serve you well even if and when you are able to do something about the erotic component.

Post: #5

Thanks lizard for it all. Real masculine words of wisdom there. I needed that.

Post: #6

Intrinsic motivation is a tough one.

Depending on your goals in life - spirituality, meditation, contemplation can help to attain detachment and a certain enlightenment.

When it comes to outward achievement - some kind of mastery is necessary to feel good about yourself as a man.

+ physical prowess / workout / body
+ mental achievements
+ financial
+ sexual - women or in some cases one woman may be enough, but ability to Game other is necessary even in that case

I know that successful men have x-times the libido of unsuccessful men.