Post: #176

What's important is that the progressives are always magnanimous in victory.





The window for a peaceful end to this business is rapidly closing. No offence to our darker skinned RVF bros, but if I were a white guy in that town I'd already be sharpening my bayonet. No doubt there are plenty doing that right now.

Post: #177

I for one stand with my Southern brothers.. read this NSA. We're ready

Post: #178

Looked back on my earlier comments before posting. I implied in them that the kooks wouldn't know when to stop, but I figured that they would at least stop with Robert E. Lee - you know, because he reluctantly fought for the Confederates and had freed his own slaves years earlier while Grant kept his.

The South was allowed to put up their monuments and name Army bases (Fort Jackson, Fort Lee, Fort Hood) after defeated Confederate generals because the North wanted to fool them into thinking they were respected members of the Union again, and not a conquered country-within-a-country. It was underhanded, but hell, it worked pretty well for a while and most people believed the lie. Sometimes, trying to move things back to the antebellum United States requires a lie or two.

What in the FUCK do these jackasses think is going to happen if they keep doing this? Do they think reminding Southerners that they're conquered is going to end well? Have they not seen the nationalistic wave that's hit, oh, a quarter of the country at least?

Post: #179

Then again, this could be precisely the point.

The elites want to drive a wedge between the South and a renewed conservative nationalist federal voting base.

I just hope the southerners recognise who their real enemies are. Trump didn't make this move and sure as hell he didn't push it, but unfortunately getting involved would be a no-win situation for him and for the right in general.

Southerners need to start cleaning house locally.

Post: #180

(05-21-2017 07:04 PM)BiggNastee Wrote:  I for one stand with my Southern brothers.. read this NSA. We're ready

Post: #181

(05-21-2017 06:52 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

That town needs another good bath.

Post: #182

(05-21-2017 07:04 PM)BiggNastee Wrote:  I for one stand with my Southern brothers.. read this NSA. We're ready

You're a 127 post 0 rep blow-in deliberately baiting the NSA on a forum that has no idea who you are and which you've functionally invested virtually nothing in.

On the off chance you're not a government paid troll, you are in fact a fucking idiot that needs to put his dick back in his pants and leave the chest thumping for the white supremacist forums.

Nobody is impressed, least of all the NSA.

Post: #183

Someone mentioned earlier the prospect of Texas turning Blue. Well no shit with all those leftists fleeing from the consequences of their ideology to low tax, low regulation small government Red states whilst infecting the states with their ideology. In addition the infection is also being being inflicted through universities and the educational school system.

You think leftist immigrants wouldn't screw the pooch everywhere they go? They are attracted to eden and make it hell everywhere they go.

Post: #184

(05-21-2017 06:52 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  What's important is that the progressives are always magnanimous in victory.





The window for a peaceful end to this business is rapidly closing. No offence to our darker skinned RVF bros, but if I were a white guy in that town I'd already be sharpening my bayonet. No doubt there are plenty doing that right now.

Absolutely disgusting pictures.

There have been police guarding this monument for weeks.

During MG there is a constant police presence around the circle, to make sure no one climbs it and gets hurt.

Now that the statue's gone, they just abandon it? Completely unacceptable.

White guys in NO aren't "sharpening bayonets," we're leaving.

Post: #185

I think these statues a perfect political tool for Republicans, if they don't cuck out. Simply stating, "it's wrong to try and erase American history," is enough to attract 55% of the vote in these areas.

Sure, these statues were pretty distasteful for their endorsements of White Supremacy. But it doesn't change the fact that America overcame this history and it would be wrong to try and suppress what has been overcome. Therefore Republicans in the area should use the removal of these statues as "Unpatriotic," and "Anti-American." I'm sure the South has the least cucked Republicans in America so there has to be many who will tow this line.

Post: #186

The country is coming apart and the border lines are being drawn:

Post: #187

Post: #188

Not sure if this is real or not but if it is, who do they come for next? George Washington? This is from /pol/



from Facebook account Texas Antifa:

Quote:Comrades, we need to fight to remove the disgusting statues of ALL war criminals and slave owners. Texans want these statues removed! If you are not subscribed to our mailing list, you can find out more from your on line Antifa group admins the exact times and rally points. There are 4 rally points, you are welcome to participate in any rally group you wish. People in each group will have the exact plans, which needs to go well in order to remain organized since this will be one of our largest.

We are simply in awe at how many have pledged their support to be there this day. Texans agree the disgusting idols of America's dark days of slavery must be removed to bring internal peace to our country. Several large groups of BLM have also pledged their support for this historic rally against the idols of an oppressive history, hence the name "Anti-Oppression Rally" - These statues are a slap in the face of all Black Americans!

Post: #189

Quote:Texans agree the disgusting idols of America's dark days of slavery must be removed to bring internal peace to our country.

"""Texans"""
MOAB on Austin when?

Sam Houston was removed from office for refusing to swear an oath of loyalty to the Confederacy, so what exactly is the rationalization for removing a statue of him?

Resident forum SJWs please explain.

Post: #190

The guys defending this don't seem to know what we're dealing with here. It's never where it starts, it's where it ends.

These "social justice" losers, as Quintus, Lizard of Oz, and I have been saying for years now have a psychopathic need to deconstruct and destroy anything outside their worldview, which they consider "impure." Because they consider themselves moral and upstanding, anything else is benighted and not worth preserving. We see this in everything they do, from your sex life to banning shirts to what color a building is, nothing ever escapes their grasp. It's always the same everywhere. Tucker Carlson seemed to hone in on it last week.





In everywhere these purity revolutions have taken hold, from Egypt to the Jacobins in France to the heralds of Mao and Pol Pot, there have always been thought policing, witch hunts, upheavals, and bloodbaths. These people cannot be reasoned with, rationalized away, or given a single inch. You see the consequences written on the base of the statue above. Surprisingly, Trump's victory has made them worse. The mask is fully off. As Tucker said, these people want their pure world now and they don't care what they have to do to get it. If you're a casualty, so be it.

Don't think you're safe from these people, ever.

Post: #191

I'm glad they got rid of monuments such as this monument dedicated to the Battle of Liberty Place.

   

Post: #192

If I've learned one thing, it's that this is the look I'm going for when I'm older:



#beardgoals

Post: #193

Wait until they realize what even the North, the entire founders and pretty much everyone thought until maybe the 19th century.

They would have to tear down Washington, Lincoln, every statue of every president until Kennedy.

The reality is that some of the things have been thought is because elite-trained men were taught that way. They had not encountered any NASA employed black geniuses or CEOs (they exist - and Booker T Washington would have made the cut as well).

And I might add another thing - the educated and the elite back then thought even worse about the poor Whites. There were statements made by the aristocrats back then that the poor Whites to them were more hopeless than the blacks. They actually considered the impoverished Whites as inferior. (Due to malnourishment in Europe they were actually much shorter and weaker - also it showed itself in price and the White slaves were worth 10% of a black one.)

White slave you say?


Now - what should Antifa now fight against here? The likelihood that an average White Antifa fighter has White slave ancestry in him is probably 100 times more likely than that his ancestor was a slave owner since only 1.6% owned slaves.

But of course those things are better forgotten because they would risk uniting folk against the globalist elite than the opposite that is meant to divide and conquer.

Post: #194

(((Howard Zinn's))) People's History of the United States is garbage SJW crap, but with a significant redeeming factor - it covers white slavery extremely extensively.

It calls it "indentured servitude", sure, but when you read the chapter he doesn't mince words when saying it was often far worse than with blacks, as there was far less of an investment to protect.

I wonder if that chapter will be "rewritten" soon.

Post: #195

Good news. Country is moving in the right direction.

Post: #196

Read the whole speech. Saw a few typical platitudes, but plenty of truths too (the bolded bits stood out). Looked hard to find where the man lied and came up empty.

Quote:Thank you for coming.

The soul of our beloved city is deeply rooted in a history that has evolved over thousands of years; rooted in a diverse people who have been here together every step of the way—for both good and for ill. It is a history that holds in its heart the stories of Native Americans—the Choctaw, Houma Nation, the Chitimacha. Of Hernando de Soto, Robert Cavelier, Sieur de La Salle, the Acadians, the Islenos, the enslaved people from Senegambia, Free People of Color, the Haitians, the Germans, both the empires of France and Spain. The Italians, the Irish, the Cubans, the south and central Americans, the Vietnamese, and so many more.


You see, New Orleans is truly a city of many nations, a melting pot, a bubbling cauldron of many cultures. There is no other place quite like it in the world that so eloquently exemplifies the uniquely American motto: e pluribus unum: out of many we are one. But there are also other truths about our city that we must confront. New Orleans was America’s largest slave market, a port where hundreds of thousands of souls were bought, sold, and shipped up the Mississippi River to lives of forced labor, of misery, of rape, of torture. America was the place where nearly 4,000 of our fellow citizens were lynched, 540 alone in Louisiana; where the courts enshrined “separate but equal”; where Freedom riders coming to New Orleans were beaten to a bloody pulp. So when people say to me that the monuments in question are history, well, what I just described is real history as well, and it is the searing truth.


And it immediately begs the questions, why there are no slave ship monuments, no prominent markers on public land to remember the lynchings or the slave blocks; nothing to remember this long chapter of our lives; the pain, the sacrifice, the shame … all of it happening on the soil of New Orleans. So for those self-appointed defenders of history and the monuments, they are eerily silent on what amounts to this historical malfeasance, a lie by omission. There is a difference between remembrance of history and reverence of it.


For America and New Orleans, it has been a long, winding road, marked by great tragedy and great triumph. But we cannot be afraid of our truth. As President George W. Bush said at the dedication ceremony for the National Museum of African American History & Culture, “A great nation does not hide its history. It faces its flaws and corrects them.” So today I want to speak about why we chose to remove these four monuments to the Lost Cause of the Confederacy, but also how and why this process can move us towards healing and understanding of each other. So, let’s start with the facts.


The historic record is clear: The Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, and P.G.T. Beauregard statues were not erected just to honor these men, but as part of the movement which became known as The Cult of the Lost Cause. This “cult” had one goal—through monuments and through other means—to rewrite history to hide the truth, which is that the Confederacy was on the wrong side of humanity. First erected over 166 years after the founding of our city and 19 years after the end of the Civil War, the monuments that we took down were meant to rebrand the history of our city and the ideals of a defeated Confederacy. It is self-evident that these men did not fight for the United States of America. They fought against it. They may have been warriors, but in this cause they were not patriots. These statues are not just stone and metal. They are not just innocent remembrances of a benign history. These monuments purposefully celebrate a fictional, sanitized Confederacy, ignoring the death, ignoring the enslavement and the terror that it actually stood for.


After the Civil War, these statues were a part of that terrorism as much as a burning cross on someone’s lawn; they were erected purposefully to send a strong message to all who walked in their shadows about who was still in charge in this city. Should you have further doubt about the true goals of the Confederacy, in the very weeks before the war broke out, the Vice President of the Confederacy, Alexander Stephens, made it clear that the Confederate cause was about maintaining slavery and white supremacy. He said in his now famous “corner-stone speech” that the Confederacy’s “cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first in the history of the world based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”


Now, with these shocking words still ringing in your ears, I want to try to gently peel from your hands the grip on a false narrative of our history that I think weakens us, and make straight a wrong turn we made many years ago. We can more closely connect with integrity to the founding principles of our nation and forge a clearer and straighter path toward a better city and a more perfect union.


Last year, President Barack Obama echoed these sentiments about the need to contextualize and remember all our history. He recalled a piece of stone, a slave auction block engraved with a marker commemorating a single moment in 1830 when Andrew Jackson and Henry Clay stood and spoke from it. President Obama said, “Consider what this artifact tells us about history. … On a stone where day after day for years, men and women … bound and bought and sold and bid like cattle on a stone worn down by the tragedy of over a thousand bare feet. For a long time the only thing we considered important, the singular thing we once chose to commemorate as history with a plaque, were the unmemorable speeches of two powerful men.”


A piece of stone—one stone. Both stories were history. One story told. One story forgotten or maybe even purposefully ignored. As clear as it is for me today … for a long time, even though I grew up in one of New Orleans’ most diverse neighborhoods, even with my family’s long proud history of fighting for civil rights … I must have passed by those monuments a million times without giving them a second thought. So I am not judging anybody, I am not judging people. We all take our own journey on race.


I just hope people listen like I did when my dear friend Wynton Marsalis helped me see the truth. He asked me to think about all the people who have left New Orleans because of our exclusionary attitudes. Another friend asked me to consider these four monuments from the perspective of an African American mother or father trying to explain to their fifth-grade daughter who Robert E. Lee is and why he stands atop of our beautiful city. Can you do it? Can you look into that young girl’s eyes and convince her that Robert E. Lee is there to encourage her? Do you think she will feel inspired and hopeful by that story? Do these monuments help her see a future with limitless potential? Have you ever thought that if her potential is limited, yours and mine are too? We all know the answer to these very simple questions. When you look into this child’s eyes is the moment when the searing truth comes into focus for us. This is the moment when we know what is right and what we must do. We can’t walk away from this truth.


And I knew that taking down the monuments was going to be tough, but you elected me to do the right thing, not the easy thing and this is what that looks like. So relocating these Confederate monuments is not about taking something away from someone else. This is not about politics. This is not about blame or retaliation. This is not a naive quest to solve all our problems at once.


This is, however, about showing the whole world that we as a city and as a people are able to acknowledge, understand, reconcile and most importantly, choose a better future for ourselves, making straight what has been crooked and making right what was wrong. Otherwise, we will continue to pay a price with discord, with division and, yes, with violence.


To literally put the Confederacy on a pedestal in our most prominent places of honor is an inaccurate recitation of our full past. It is an affront to our present, and it is a bad prescription for our future. History cannot be changed. It cannot be moved like a statue. What is done is done. The Civil War is over, and the Confederacy lost and we are better for it. Surely we are far enough removed from this dark time to acknowledge that the cause of the Confederacy was wrong.


[u]And in the second decade of the 21st century, asking African Americans—or anyone else—to drive by property that they own; occupied by reverential statues of men who fought to destroy the country and deny that person’s humanity seems perverse and absurd.[/u] Centuries-old wounds are still raw because they never healed right in the first place. Here is the essential truth: We are better together than we are apart.


Indivisibility is our essence. Isn’t this the gift that the people of New Orleans have given to the world? We radiate beauty and grace in our food, in our music, in our architecture, in our joy of life, in our celebration of death; in everything that we do. We gave the world this funky thing called jazz, the most uniquely American art form that is developed across the ages from different cultures. Think about second lines, think about Mardi Gras, think about muffaletta, think about the Saints, gumbo, red beans and rice. By God, just think.


All we hold dear is created by throwing everything in the pot; creating, producing something better; everything a product of our historic diversity. We are proof that out of many we are one — and better for it! Out of many we are one — and we really do love it! And yet, we still seem to find so many excuses for not doing the right thing. Again, remember President Bush’s words. “A great nation does not hide its history. It faces its flaws and corrects them.”


We forget, we deny how much we really depend on each other, how much we need each other. We justify our silence and inaction by manufacturing noble causes that marinate in historical denial. We still find a way to say, “Wait, not so fast.” But like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said, “Wait has almost always meant never.” We can’t wait any longer. We need to change. And we need to change now.


No more waiting. This is not just about statues, this is about our attitudes and behavior as well. If we take these statues down and don’t change to become a more open and inclusive society this would have all been in vain. While some have driven by these monuments every day and either revered their beauty or failed to see them at all, many of our neighbors and fellow Americans see them very clearly. Many are painfully aware of the long shadows their presence casts; not only literally but figuratively. And they clearly receive the message that the Confederacy and the cult of the lost cause intended to deliver.


Earlier this week, as the cult of the lost cause statue of P.G.T Beauregard came down, world renowned musician Terence Blanchard stood watch, his wife Robin and their two beautiful daughters at their side. Terence went to a high school on the edge of City Park named after one of America’s greatest heroes and patriots, John F. Kennedy. But to get there he had to pass by this monument to a man who fought to deny him his humanity.


He said, “I’ve never looked at them as a source of pride … it’s always made me feel as if they were put there by people who don’t respect us. This is something I never thought I’d see in my lifetime. It’s a sign that the world is changing.” Yes, Terence, it is. And it is long overdue. Now is the time to send a new message to the next generation of New Orleanians who can follow in Terence and Robin’s remarkable footsteps.


A message about the future, about the next 300 years and beyond: Let us not miss this opportunity, New Orleans, and let us help the rest of the country do the same. Because now is the time for choosing. Now is the time to actually make this the City we always should have been, had we gotten it right in the first place.


We should stop for a moment and ask ourselves: At this point in our history — after Katrina, after Rita, after Ike, after Gustav, after the national recession, after the BP oil catastrophe and after the tornado — if presented with the opportunity to build monuments that told our story or to curate these particular spaces, would these monuments be what we want the world to see? Is this really our story?


We have not erased history; we are becoming part of the city’s history by righting the wrong image these monuments represent and crafting a better, more complete future for all our children and for future generations. And unlike when these Confederate monuments were first erected as symbols of white supremacy, we now have a chance to create not only new symbols, but to do it together, as one people. In our blessed land we all come to the table of democracy as equals. We have to reaffirm our commitment to a future where each citizen is guaranteed the uniquely American gifts of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


That is what really makes America great and today it is more important than ever to hold fast to these values and together say a self-evident truth that out of many we are one. That is why today we reclaim these spaces for the United States of America. Because we are one nation, not two; indivisible with liberty and justice for all, not some. We all are part of one nation, all pledging allegiance to one flag, the flag of the United States of America. And New Orleanians are in … all of the way. It is in this union and in this truth that real patriotism is rooted and flourishes. Instead of revering a four-year brief historical aberration that was called the Confederacy, we can celebrate all 300 years of our rich, diverse history as a place named New Orleans, and set the tone for the next 300 years.


After decades of public debate, of anger, of anxiety, of anticipation, of humiliation and of frustration. After public hearings and approvals from three separate community led commissions. After two robust public hearings and a 6–1 vote by the duly elected New Orleans City Council. After review by 13 different federal and state judges. The full weight of the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of government has been brought to bear and the monuments, in accordance with the law, have been removed. So now is the time to come together and heal and focus on our larger task. Not only building new symbols, but making this city a beautiful manifestation of what is possible and what we as a people can become.


Let us remember what the once exiled, imprisoned, and now universally loved Nelson Mandela and what he said after the fall of apartheid. “If the pain has often been unbearable and the revelations shocking to all of us, it is because they indeed bring us the beginnings of a common understanding of what happened and a steady restoration of the nation’s humanity.” So before we part let us again state the truth clearly.


The Confederacy was on the wrong side of history and humanity. It sought to tear apart our nation and subjugate our fellow Americans to slavery. This is the history we should never forget and one that we should never again put on a pedestal to be revered. As a community, we must recognize the significance of removing New Orleans’ Confederate monuments. It is our acknowledgment that now is the time to take stock of, and then move past, a painful part of our history.


Anything less would render generations of courageous struggle and soul-searching a truly lost cause. Anything less would fall short of the immortal words of our greatest president, Abraham Lincoln, who with an open heart and clarity of purpose calls on us today to unite as one people when he said, “With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation’s wounds … to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.”
Thank you.

Post: #197

Just remember. When the violence kicks off in ernest and white liberal-lite phaggots are fleeing from the hell they have created you only have to remember one thing.

Breath control. Relax. Aim. Slack. Squeeze.

Post: #198

Excelsior - the mayor's speech is the usual manipulative bullshit. Why manipulative?

Because I posted a video before where it was clearly stated that back in those days ALL THE LEADING WHITE MEN thought that Whites were the superior race - even Lincoln wanted to ship all the blacks off to Liberia or a country in the Caribbean. The men of the north were just opposed to slavery, but had no intention of treating blacks as equals. That sentiment by the way prevailed right until the 1960s in most countries.

For example - this is Belgium in the 1950s where they showed blacks in a zoo - actually created a replica of an African village and put them on display:


By current standards this was utterly racist, but they did not mean to be dicks about it - they just thought that this behavior was fine.

So the mayor can suck it. I agree - let New Orleans erect monuments for the scores of Black Slaves. While they are at it they should erect monuments for White Slaves as well.

It is not that what the mayor is saying that is untrue, it is what he is not saying - that makes it untrue - he is a lying piece of shit. When Merkel allowed millions of Middle Eastern migrants into Europe over the picture of a drowned kid, it was not untrue that the kid had not died in the crossing. It was just bullshit that we should use tear-filled accounts of "explaining your daughter" why Robert E Lee is up there in veneration. Because he was a great general and fought for what he considered his way of life. That is why.

As for "White Supremacy" as they called it back then. Let me Red Pill you:

ALL THE LEADERS BOTH IN THE NORTH AS WELL AS THE SOUTH WERE WHAT WE WOULD CALL WHITE SUPREMACISTS BACK THEN! They were just divided on the issue of slavery and of course I will agree with that as anyone should. Slavery is not only barbaric, inhumane, breaks divine laws (if you believe in them) and what it also does as we know now is that it impedes the scientific growth of a nation, because slave-holders "property" is devalued by technological progress - so they are invested in trying to prevent it. That is why Rome did not continue to rise in technology and did not reach the industrial age by the year 200. If they had abolished slavery they actually might have had a chance!

But I don't expect reasonable assessments of the issue because the leftist view of things is just too common and the entire issue is too wrought in emotions/ too painful to watch for blacks too - I get that. It is like when even a Jew starts talking to other Jews that some aspects of the Holocoust were exaggerations - no matter his proof, he will be attacked 99,99% of the time. Truth cannot prevail when ideologies and base emotions rule.

Post: #199

(05-27-2017 02:05 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Excelsior - the mayor's speech is the usual manipulative bullshit. Why manipulative?

Because I posted a video before where it was clearly stated that back in those days ALL THE LEADING WHITE MEN thought that Whites were the superior race - even Lincoln wanted to ship all the blacks off to Liberia or a country in the Caribbean. The men of the north were just opposed to slavery, but had no intention of treating blacks as equals. That sentiment by the way prevailed right until the 1960s in most countries.

I've read this entire thread and seen this argument come up multiple times. I've seen it repeated elsewhere online too, and that's unfortunate because it is a deeply flawed argument.

I'm fully aware of the fact that Abraham Lincoln did not free the slaves out of the goodness of his heart. I'm fully aware of the fact that he and many other northerners harbored views about blacks that were not progressive. I know all about the repatriation ideology supported by many Northern Abolitionists.

What I fail to see is how precisely this should make blacks feel more comfortable about tolerating the public, taxpayer funded celebration of an ideology that was more than just "not progressive" in the Lincolnian sense, but actually dedicated to the maintenance of the permanent enslavement of them and everyone like them.

Blacks are looking at these monuments, analyzing the history of the confederacy and the historical context in which said monuments stand, and coming to the inevitable conclusion that these things are pretty highly offensive to their very core being.

Defenders of the confederacy are responding by saying "Yeah, but Lincoln was a racist".

OK. Cool. So what?

Lincoln was a racist (at least by our modern standards) whose actions (which were taken for reasons that were not all tied to anti-racism and had much to do with his other priorities, that just so happened to line up with a more egalitarian outcome for blacks relative to their pre-civil war state) ended up creating an outcome that led to major civil rights gains for blacks.
Meanwhile, Confederates founded a state explicitly and openly hostile to the notion of black receipt of civil rights to ANY degree, a state that went to war with the express purpose of denying said rights and perpetuating a system that relegated blacks to a status not too far from that of cattle.

How do you honestly expect blacks (and other minorities for that matter, as well as any non-minorities concerned with minority issues) to look at these two in the same light?

We've established Lincoln's not-entirely-progressive argument toward blacks, but if you're looking at Lincoln and the political apparatus surrounding him (his most loyal supporters, his party, his party's platforms), it really is not hard to see a stark difference here.

I'll quote:

Quote: the “limitations of the Constitution upon the States in favor of the personal liberty of all of the citizens of Republic black & white [are] soon to become a great question before the people.”

“You will search in vain in the Constitution of the United States … for that word white, it is not there . . . The omission of this word — this phrase of caste — from our national charter, was not accidental, but intentional.”

“Black men … helped to make the Constitution, as well as to achieve the independence of the country by the terrible trial of battle.”

Those words come from John Bingham, a Republican congressman who led the impeachment of Andrew Johnson, fathered the 14th amendment, and was one of Lincoln's most loyal supporters.

Meanwhile, here is what the confederate vice president had to say:

Quote:"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization.
Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science.

Again, say what you will about Lincoln, but his party was full of people like Bingham - abolitionists who, at a bare minimum, believed slavery was unjustified and who often went above and beyond the call of duty to try and end it and, following that, actually protect the rights of the newly freed.
Lincolnians drafted the 14th Amendment. Lincolnians supported and put into place the 15th amendment.

No matter where you look, the fact is that what little progress blacks made in the civil war and post-civil war era was largely the product of people who were close to lincoln and firmly in his political sphere. No, they were not a bunch of future NAACP ideologues, but they were damn sure not confederates when taken as a whole.

What were confederate sympathizers doing at this time? The exact opposite of all Lincolnian/Republican work of the time. The sons of the confederacy fought to roll back what little gains blacks made during and after the civil war, and were largely successful.

There's no equivalence here. The characterization drawn by the Mayor of New Orleans is quite accurate. You cannot reasonably expect any blacks or other minorities concerned with these issues to take even a cursory look at the history here and come out thinking any other way. If your best defense of the confederacy is "Lincoln was racist", you've already lost the argument. Nobody is going to listen to this and conclude that it is therefore completely cool and tolerable to celebrate a state that existed for the explicit purpose of entrenching their inferiority and perpetualizing their enslavement, and whose supporters did nothing but work to roll back whatever limited amount of progress they could make with regard to civil rights.

Quote:It was just bullshit that we should use tear-filled accounts of "explaining your daughter" why Robert E Lee is up there in veneration. Because he was a great general and fought for what he considered his way of life. That is why.

He fought to sustain and uphold a state whose explicit purpose it was to subjugate black people into perpetuity and halt ANY effort to provide them with anything resembling civil rights.
Explain to me why any black taxpayer should be content not only to see a defender of such a thing venerated in their city, but support it as well. What could possibly make them comfortable with this? What reason have they to give ANY deference to the legacy of a state that never hid its contempt for them and went to war in service of said contempt?

Quote:As for "White Supremacy" as they called it back then. Let me Red Pill you:

ALL THE LEADERS BOTH IN THE NORTH AS WELL AS THE SOUTH WERE WHAT WE WOULD CALL WHITE SUPREMACISTS BACK THEN!

You are not "red-pilling" me. I know this. It still doesn't make your case, for reasons explained above. The fact that most leaders at the time were racists by any modern standard doesn't justify the notion that blacks should look at the confederacy and see anything equivalent to its opponent, or defer at all to its legacy.

Quote:They were just divided on the issue of slavery and of course I will agree with that as anyone should. Slavery is not only barbaric, inhumane, breaks divine laws (if you believe in them) and what it also does as we know now is that it impedes the scientific growth of a nation, because slave-holders "property" is devalued by technological progress - so they are invested in trying to prevent it.

You claim to believe all of this, and yet are arguing in defence of the legacy of a nation explicitly founded on the promotion and perpetuation of slavery and absolutely dedicated to the institution. You argue in defence of men who put their lives on the line in service of that nation and claim that they just "fought for what they believed in"...which was the institution of slavery and the inherent, perpetual inferiority of black people.

Quote:But I don't expect reasonable assessments of the issue because the leftist view of things is just too common and the entire issue is too wrought in emotions/ too painful to watch for blacks too - I get that. It is like when even a Jew starts talking to other Jews that some aspects of the Holocoust were exaggerations - no matter his proof, he will be attacked 99,99% of the time. Truth cannot prevail when ideologies and base emotions rule.

You're not telling the truth. That is the fundamental misunderstanding here. The position being promoted in service of the confederate legacy here is far from accurate. I've read this thread, and it only confirms this.

Post: #200

If a person is unwilling to accept that "slavery in the south" was as genuine a cry to go to war as "democracy for the middle-east" then of course these monuments are going to be seen as divisive.

That Lincoln et al didn't give a shit about black people is entirely relevant because once you accept that fact you will see that the premise for the war against the South was a fabrication used to further other unrelated agendas. It should not escape notice that the fall of the South was the beginning of the end for state's rights and the dawn of the omnipotent federal government.

As for the argument that "it offends Blacks to drive past this every day" well that's a high bar to set, isn't it? There are blacks that are offended by the very sight of white men. Indeed, a growing number of "radicalised" blacks are perpetually offended with everything white people have built in this world, and with the existence of white people themselves. That's why white people see the removal of a historic statue on the premise that "it offends black people" and they think "what's next?"

This is just another chapter in the prologue for a racial civil war in America that is going to end very badly for blacks. I'm not going to say they'll be genocided but they are going to learn the hard way that their entire way of life is built on the foundations of white society and welfare provided from printing money out of thin air and using it to buy white-produced food and foreign-produced oil.

There is a momentum about this madness and whites are starting to cotton on to it. People say "that statue is racist, and it's just a statue, so get over it", but whites correctly see another point on the flood markers that just went under the water, and brother, it's still raining.