Thoughts about God

I've gone through the Deep forum but haven't come across a thread addressing this, or maybe i can be pointed in the right direction.

I was born and raised Catholic, but succumbed to the "uncoolness" of God and religion in school in Ireland.

I was always dissatisfied with the answers to the fundamental questions. The priests were these flabby impotent old men, soft and definitely not leaders. Mass was an interminably boring low-energy affair and I dreaded it. I positively hated it.

I turned away from God around age 16 and as I look back on life I feel as though my life started to truly unwind then. I drank a lot, watched a lot of porn, made excuses in my life, endured years low-level ennui and depression.

It's only since I came across Jordan Peterson that some of my old questions got some answers. That the Bible was teaching wisdom and mythos, not science. It all made sense.

I look at the modern Catholic Church and I look at the pre-Vatican II era Church from my research into history. It seems as though it too has been subverted by the Marxists and this would explain its decline and noxious spinelessness.

I look at the world around me and what is it? Junk food, toxic sex relations, drug and alcohol addiction, porn everywhere, lies and cowardice from our "leaders", paedophilia in the halls of power, nations bankrupt, welfare systems that promote dysgenics and keep people poor and dependent.
And who are the heroes being placed on high before us? Narcissists and degenerates. Liars and criminals. It's like the culture has totally turned away from God and now how it rots. I want no part in it.

I think of the wisdom and salvation that faith in God provides. But then I look at the "Godly" among us. They seem to me to be sanctimonious and self-righteous. I don't know.

I wonder if any of you have been or are in the position I'm in. If you can give me some guidance on how to reestablish a relationship with God, or where to even start.

Quote

That's some heavy stuff man. I've experienced this too recently. After more than ten years of traveling, girls, drinking, and drugs I look back on it all and wonder what it was for. The "experience"? Yea, I had some fun and fucked some girls and have some "amazing" stories. Did any of it bring me happiness or contentment? Not really.

One verse follows repeats in my head over and over. It's from Ecclesiastes written by King Solomon, who was one of the richest men who ever lived. He talks about all he had done in his life and how he tried everything to find happiness. This is what he says.

10 And whatsoever mine eyes desired I kept not from them, I withheld not my heart from any joy; for my heart rejoiced in all my labour: and this was my portion of all my labour.
11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.

This is his conclusion-

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

I know this answer might be a little vague but finding out what God wants from you is probably a good start to reestablishing a relationship with him.

Quote

(04-17-2017 04:19 AM)fenetre Wrote:  If you can give me some guidance on how to reestablish a relationship with God, or where to even start.

Start by slowly giving up your addictions one by one.
Any habit that you cannot wilfuly give up is a demon that controls you.
The most difficult one for most men is to quit is masturbation and porn.

As a man, overcoming any powerful addiction will bring you closer to God.

Quote

^
More powerful than kneeling in Church and repeating empty mantras without any meaning.

Quote

I was raised a complacent Catholic who didn't know much about the church's teachings. Recently, I listened to the ex Jesuit Malachi Martin's series of interviews from the nineties with Art Bell on his radio show. They are extensive, and cover a lot of ground, both with church dogma, and modern geo-politics. I didn't buy everything he said, but it re-connected me to Catholicism in a way, to hear an intelligent, articulate person answer every question put to him both by the interviewer and callers to the show.

Might be worth a listen:

Quote

God is the mystery of The Universe.

The Bible and other books are more about philosophical insights into man than anything believable. I don't believe there is such thing as a God in the image of humanity, we are too infinitesimally small and insignificant for that.

Quote

Somewhat tangentially related, but this is a big red-pill on Nietzsche. The uninformed react poorly to Nietzsche because of his famous words "God is dead and we have killed him". But Nietzsche didn't believe in God anyway, so he obviously wasn't speaking literally. He was speaking about the European people. The churchfolk and unbelievers alike. What Frederic saw was a people who had removed from themselves the Holy Spirit of God. The European people had relinquished and extinguished the flame and fervor which had once made them great. Frederic said what he said because what he saw before his eyes was a people who had become ungodly.

Quote

Alvin Plantinga's books are good auxhiliary reading for Christians of all stripes who are interested in the metaphysics and philosophy.

Quote

I appreciate all your responses. I feel that we're all aiming for the same thing and coming along overlapping paths.

I had listened to Malachi Martin's interview last year and I thought it was thought-provoking. Thank you for thinking of me with this suggestion.

It's the bitter feeling of having been lied to for years by everyone around me. It's clear to anybody who understands Nietzsche that he was saying that the Europeans have shunned the very thing that made them who they were and that will be their undoing. Yet people talk about him as though he were simply an anti-God lunatic.

The prescription of the Atheists is actually a joke. They seem so certain of science, evidence, reason and logic but they rely on faith based explanations of the beginning of existence. Probably mistaking evolution, the means, with evolution, the cause or intelligence. Even if they were right, look at the vacuum left by secularism.
On the one hand the Atheists are all about biology and science. But what happens to the race/ethnicity when they put their own base pleasure at the apex of their existence? The people become weak and the society rots from the inside.
Who will win when you have two people fighting to impose their beliefs? On the one hand a bloated, pampered man and the other a god-fearing man. Who will be willing to die? This is being played out in Europe at the moment.

I feel like I've exited a stage of anger and revulsion. I think Western Civilisation is magnificent and the pinnacle of human advancement and achievement. Yet it also actively sows the seeds of its own destruction. Like Anonymous Bosch says, how great is it really, seeing as it has given birth to cancers like Marxism, and the merchants of death who masquerade as the peaceful, and spreading war throughout the world.
A collapse of some sort is inevitable and we must welcome it, because the flock has become fat and we need to lose some of the dead weight in order for our civilisation to ultimately evolve and survive.

I now look at the stories of Solomon (thank you for sharing this) and the wisdom of the Bible as a fount of immense comfort. Our ancestors have been through these very struggles over the millennia. Our struggles have been borne before and we will overcome.

I agree that the empty mantras of the church are not the place to start. The church too has been subverted. It was the pioneers of Africa who left for Europe all those years ago, and it was the pioneers of Europe who left for America more recently. It will be the pioneers of the American frontier mentality who will carry the torch for the next renewal.

Reading Tolstoy and Dostoevsky have been immensely powerful. The answers we need are not in more and more girls, travel, drink or drugs. This is a necessary stage for sure but it's like what Roosh talked about in a recent podcast. He talks about everything he has done and what does he feel? Very little different. Still has a hunger not satisfied.

I will take all your generous advice to heart and report back.

Quote

delete

Quote

He looks like this, I think:



Just kidding...I am a believer. What created the Big Bang? What created time, space, the universe? A force that's out there, greater than we can imagine. Something that is too big to be named. A force that created the force.

That vast, eternal "thing" is God to me.

Quote

(04-18-2017 05:11 AM)fenetre Wrote:  The prescription of the Atheists is actually a joke. They seem so certain of science, evidence, reason and logic but they rely on faith based explanations of the beginning of existence. Probably mistaking evolution, the means, with evolution, the cause or intelligence. Even if they were right, look at the vacuum left by secularism.
On the one hand the Atheists are all about biology and science. But what happens to the race/ethnicity when they put their own base pleasure at the apex of their existence? The people become weak and the society rots from the inside.
Who will win when you have two people fighting to impose their beliefs? On the one hand a bloated, pampered man and the other a god-fearing man. Who will be willing to die? This is being played out in Europe at the moment.

I feel like I've exited a stage of anger and revulsion. I think Western Civilisation is magnificent and the pinnacle of human advancement and achievement. Yet it also actively sows the seeds of its own destruction. Like Anonymous Bosch says, how great is it really, seeing as it has given birth to cancers like Marxism, and the merchants of death who masquerade as the peaceful, and spreading war throughout the world.
A collapse of some sort is inevitable and we must welcome it, because the flock has become fat and we need to lose some of the dead weight in order for our civilisation to ultimately evolve and survive.

You should take a look at another post of mine which ties in evolution and sin. Spirituality and science are very much connected and atheists are idiots for missing the obvious.

Reposting from this thread: /thread-54219.html

(03-04-2016 07:08 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Inspired by Samsaeu's post about premarital sex, I wanted to take the time to write out my thoughts on how sin and evolution. Christians like to deny evolution and natural selection as being contrary to the bible. However they are very much inextricably linked.

Before I begin, we can define sin as anything that goes against Jesus' only two commandments:

Quote:Matthew 22:37-40New International Version (NIV)

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Humans like to think that we are above nature. Evolution does not affect us as it seems that we have supposedly stalled in our evolutionary progress.

We breed horses, dogs, pigs, and cats to have amiable personalities for domestication purposes. It is foolish to think that humans are exempt from this as well.

Humans are very much subject to evolution but in ways that we cannot easily quantify. As i've gotten older, i've come to notice how personality traits from both parents manifest in children. I have identified personality traits within myself that I can clearly point out in both of my father and mother as well as in other people. The kaleidoscope of how you view this world is very much dictated by the two people who brought you onto this Earth.

Nature plays far more of role than nurture than we are willing to admit. Does that remove all responsibility from the individual? Not at all, we still have free will. It is safe to assume that our genetic personality is a wish, you still have to take action in order to fulfill that genetic potential.

Take for example people who engage in homosexuality. The bible does not have many nice things to say about homosexuality. We all know it is no secret that homosexual men are the most promiscuous people on the planet with notch counts exceeding 100+.

STD rates are highest in gay men for a reason. Whether it's a lack of children or an incurable disease, high sex drives coupled with unnatural sexual releases are nature's way of saying, "your genes are unfit for the next generation." Take this time to ponder the meaning of the phrase, "Sin pays its wages in death."

What about women that forsake motherhood to partake in the notorious cock carousel? These women will go on to ride the carousel until their late 30s when they immediately realize their time to have children is almost over.

The bible goes on in length to describe premarital sex as bad and women love sex just as much as men if not more. The cost of indulging in this passion of the flesh eventually leads these women to not have children thanks to modern birth control and abortion. While her sinful acts won't immediately lead to death, without any children her genetic lineage dies with her. It seems that once again sin has paid a full paycheck of death to a maternal line (or nature removing unfit genes).

While these are only a few examples, this rule isn't hard and steadfast. It seems that straight heterosexual men can get away with promiscuity and other hard acts of the spirit destruction. However in days gone by, men were the first to die out in either war, hard labor, or sickness. With modern medicine we can obviously delay that and forestall the such effects. However it's only a matter of time before antibiotics become ineffective against STDs and a major war has men from all walks of life called to defend their homelands.

Sin is a multifaceted spiritual concept and the things I previously outlined above are only one manifestation of it. You can obviously still have children and proceed to lead a promiscuous life. However there are many more unintended consequences of such behavior on the mother and children that will manifest itself in either poor impulse control (leading to crime) or all around poor parenting repeating acts that would lead to the death of a genetic line.

Moral of the story, find pure and chaste women to have many children with so you pass nature's test.

These questions you are asking are good ones. They will bring you closer to what you seek.

Quote

The strength to be a better person resides in oneself.

Sure, society today is rotted and corrupt. But I don't let that affect me, I overcome.

Personally, I don't need "God" or a "higher power" to guide me or influence me. I find that power within myself.

Quote

(04-21-2017 12:57 PM)[email protected] Wrote:  The strength to be a better person resides in oneself.

Sure, society today is rotted and corrupt. But I don't let that affect me, I overcome.

Personally, I don't need "God" or a "higher power" to guide me or influence me. I find that power within myself.

Thank you for clearing that up. Now go tell the mods to delete all threads dealing with religion. I am sure your word will be enough.

Quote

Thank you, The Beast and debeguiled.

I went to Mass yesterday. It was an mixed experience. On the one hand I found the soft, impotent tone and language a little nauseating. It is manifest weakness and meekness. Almost like the congregation, the average age of which must have been 70, were reveling in their flabby helplessness.
On the other, I have to understand that not everyone is like me. Not everyone is into the way of living that we on the forum espouse.

I didn't take the holy communion. There was an obese barrel-shaped aging woman giving out the communion with the priest. I can't accept that. The symbolism was apt.
The whole affair was so thoroughly uninspiring and my reaction to it was visceral. There is no teeth, no bite, no energy, no strength. I think I could go to the church when there is no mass on, and sit and pray in silence. I think I will do that.

I did go to confession afterwards. I found that meaningful. I expressed my failings to the priest and asked for forgiveness. I felt that a small burden had been lifted off me. I left the church with a pep in my step.

I'm wary of allowing myself to see this process as a "plug-and-play" solution to life's sacred mysteries. We live in a solution-in-a-box world. I accept that I will have to work hard to reacquaint myself with God and it will take time.

I read over the ten commandments during the week. I think they are reasonable and I am working to follow them.

I don't see God as the answer to my perceived failings or weaknesses. I am quite capable of being the best that I can be for most things. But I also think it would be foolish to think my strength comes entirely of my own volition and that there are things about me that I struggle to control and that are self-sabotaging and destructive. I could lie to myself as I have done and gamble, or I could admit them and deal with them, with God's help, as I am striving today.

I anticipate hardship in the future and I want to harden myself insofar as possible today so that I may bear it. It is all well and good for greenshoots above to "overcome". Even a scant understanding of history and the misery that life as a rule is for most who have lived should give all pause for thought.
We take so much for granted and in the case of sudden hardship I feel that many are unprepared.

In spite of my attitude towards mass, I will aim to go each week on a Sunday for the month of May to give it a proper chance. One of my weaknesses is conceit and I perhaps should humble myself more. Perhaps the congregation, having lived for many more years than I, know a thing or two more about life and living than my young-buck attitude proffers, and I could judge them less by their appearance.

Quote

It is true that the world is a fucked up place, reading all the examples that the OP gave. But did you ever think that it might actually be the least fucked up its ever been, and we may be blessed to live in this time?

Imagine being persecuted in the Spanish Inquisition, being a 19 year-old marine on Guadalcanal, being a slave on a ship to the New World, being a tribal leader facing Genghis Khan, the list goes on and on. The world has a fucked up history.

God is obviously many different things to people, both now and throughout history. But I think overall, it is a symbol of hope and purpose. People need to feel that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, or they are put here to do something other than monotonous everyday activities. If you can find these things on your own, maybe you don't need some imaginary man in the sky?

Quote

@fenetre

Sounds like your head is in a good place. One thing I have noticed about the Catholics, as opposed to Evangelicals for example, is that they take the Biblical injunction to do good works in secret more seriously. I was involved with one parish where some of these unlikely sorts of people were doing all kinds of good works for other congregation members and the community completely in the background without any need for recognition, and you would never know what they were up to unless you got to know them.

Quote

OP, the issue revolves, I think, around each individuals search for "God", something that transcends us.

Is he out there?

I conducted a study on this, looking at both sides, and really had to conclude, that there is SOMETHING out there that we may call God. Some good pointers in this respect is found on doesgodexist.org. Persuaded me, and I hope you check it out.

Now, who the hell is he?? Did he just place us in this prime real estate in the milky way and forgot about the whole thing?? What qualities would he have to have?
Again here, I found the Christian God to be the one most worthy of respect, fear and reverence. The moslem god was a moon god who had universal qualities placed on him by a pedophile who claimed that that same god approved of his banging out a 7 year old child.


The Catholic church has done a poor job of bringing that God revealed in the Bible to the people. Putting its trust in rituals, chants and beads. The evangelicals seem closer to the mark when they're not tainted with modern degeneracy.

You need to be convinced of the path you're travelling.

I did my homework, and being Christian, a follower of Christ seems best.

Read a chapter of one of the Gospels each morning, and say a word of prayer daily. Much much more than following the 10 commandments, is a simple heart that loves and fears God. A young man who followed the commandments in the bible approached Jesus to ask why his life was still so empty. Jesus answer is that that dude needs to chill out on that and simply FOLLOW him.

Things will be much clearer to you.

PS: I'm on a phone so couldn't quote or reference adequately.

Quote

I went to mass every Sunday for the month of May, and was there again this morning.

Last week I was at the church thinking, what am I doing here?

Yet just before the mass ended I watched an adult son hugging his mother and kissing her on the head. She looked at him and smiled and in that moment I felt an immense depth of emotion as I saw their love and happiness for each other.

I was struck by this moment and thought about it throughout the week.

Today I looked around the church and I saw the old people in a different light. I watched an old man in front of me at one point and I thought that's how I'll look one day.

Over the past month I've had incredible dreams and have completed a lot of work. I dreamed on two occasions that I died.

I'm on day 19 of no fap no porn.

My view of life has changed.

I deleted tinder and have instilled some self-discipline when it comes to looking at women in the street.

I want to stop being a degenerate who uses girls for sex.

I don't want to sound gay but all the casual sex only made me depressed. I've had dreams and thoughts on most days about my last serious girlfriend. The last girl I loved.

I look at my list of notches and can't remember a lot of them. Where has it all got me?

I've had so many thoughts about casual sex and many of the values held up on the forum. So much bullshit and degeneracy. It guts men like feminism guts women.

It's us men who allow feminism. It's our fault for sleeping with girls who espouse feminism. We promote bitter women by pumping and dumping them. Women don't know any better. We manipulate them and then complain about how they're manipulated by the state.

Men gave them the vote.

As I was at mass today I reflected on how I'm taking part in a ritual that has gone on for over 2,000 years. I'm a link in a long, long chain.

I think about how we imagine we're masters of the universe but we're just being carried along by the tide.

I see my life from a higher point it seems.

I see Christianity not only as a private development of my relationship with God, but it is also who I am and where my blood has come from.

My thoughts are muddled. I guess I'm in the middle of an existential phase of some sort.

Quote

Christian music can be a big part of spiritual inspiration, though the Catholics aren't strong on this. If you can find some gospel music that is truly God centered, as in, focused on the human voice, and the words, without a bunch of showing off by the musicians, or the singers imitating pop star hand gestures, you can have a powerful reaffirmation of your faith.

Production values are the enemy of spirituality, and focus on show biz and not on what matters. It can be hard to find. A lot of modern Christian music is insipid and repetitive, literally preaching to the choir in favor speaking truth simply and with feeling.

A few of my favorites. Revelation Song is one of my favorite modern gospel songs. It was written by a woman, and it seems to me that the message is better conveyed by a male voice. I like this version by Guy Penrod. He keeps it simple, and doesn't constantly go for showy high notes. I also like Penrod because he is one of the few gospel singers I know who has a genuine sparkle of humanity in his eye:





I also like some songs by the Isaacs, and this one has been very comforting to me when I was feeling unsure. Simple, powerful, A Capella testament to faith by a family band:





I will also include this version of Come To Jesus by David Phelps because he has a great voice and though he usually does a lot of the stuff I don't like in spiritual music, belting like mad, acting out the song with his hands, getting breathy and weird instead of singing it straight, in this song he reigns himself in, and makes a haunting version of a beautiful song:





Finally, because you were referring to older people, I want to include this version of In The Living Years by the Isaacs. Even though the words are secular, the performance is low keyed and affecting, and focuses on the relationship between children and their parents, which to a great degree is what Christianity is all about:





There might be something in there you like. If not, just remember not to forget music in your faith. A song can express things in ways a sermon can't, and having a list of songs that strengthen your faith will stand you in good stead.

P.S. I know this is a lot of videos. If you want to choose one to listen to, go for the Isaacs singing I Will Praise Him. Simple, heartfelt, emotional. And Lord what voices. What it's all about.

Psalm 100

1. Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands.

2. Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing.

Quote

OP, you most certainly are not alone in these feelings you're experiencing. I can relate to a lot of what you're saying because I've been going through a similar existential crisis for awhile now.

Just hang in there, keep going to mass, and keep praying. This has been my strategy, and I can honestly say that I've recently started to feel a sense of inner strength and peace that I haven't felt in a long time.

I think the act of showing a sincere commitment to faith ultimately yields great fruit, even if it feels confusing and perhaps useless at times. In the beginning I definitely had a fake it 'til you make it attitude because I just wasn't that into it, but the more I stick with it the more I seem to be growing in my faith and my relationship with God.

Granted, I may not be the best guy to speak on this since I'm in a similar boat as you, but all I know is that I've noticed an inner shift in myself over the past few months, and my priorities seem to be changing as a reflection of that. It's as if certain things are finally starting to click for me (I can only hope).

Also, you might want to check out the Tridentine (Latin) Mass if you can find one nearby. There are far more knowledgeable guys on this topic here (I've only been attending Tridentine Mass for a couple of weeks now), but I can say that it's a huge change from the ordinary mass. If you REALLY want to feel like you're taking part in an ancient faith, Tridentine Mass will do the trick. A lot of the issues you mentioned regarding the uninspiring, and even depressing nature of ordinary mass seem to disappear with the Tridentine Mass. Solemn Mass, in particular, is quite beautiful.

Stugatz started a good thread on the subject here, and a few of us have shared our insights/experiences with it.

Quote

They just made the word good into God and evil into Devil. I wont believe in god until I see him.

Quote