Inside/Outside Sales Datasheet

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(02-14-2019 11:19 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

(02-14-2019 10:30 AM)ChicagoFire Wrote:  Repped. Let me look into this. Fun fact I interviewed at a demo show job that is pretty similar to this and they don't offer company cars (wear and tear on your personal car) or this kind of pay so I'm somewhat familiar with this lifestyle.
I'm currently on the fence with relocating to another state to work on the oil rigs. If I can get a company car, room and board AND make 100K+ I'll do this instead. Job searching sucks and some days I just want to rip my hair out. Just looking at the success rate gets my hope up (1/6 get job offers, etc).
Any certain certificates/training/information to drop on the med interviewer that will help increase my odds of getting hired? I can get interviews in general but can't close for the life of me.
Once I get home from work I'll apply. Hot damn this forum is awesome!

The jobs that are high paying and easy, they literally sit you down at the interview and then ask you who you know in the industry. Then they call those folks and ask them. Getting jobs is 100% about having the right connections. So, ignore those positions. A lot of them pay 180 to 250k, but it takes time and work to get there. I mean on the surgical side having a good relationship with 10 surgeons will make you worth 200k easy. When I say a good relationship, I mean you can send them an email about a new product and ask them to try it... and they will.

A huge chunk of older medical sales folks are high school degree guys. They like to see science or business backgrounds, but there are no degrees required. You have to have a basic understanding of medicine and human biology though. Just research the product before the interview and you will be fine.

If you get serious and you want to learn how the industry works... here is a website with lots of free info and training. https://www.hida.org

This is a $160 billion industry with super high margins!

(02-14-2019 10:40 AM)Zeroblack Wrote:  I'm in Toronto unfortunately but I'll check it out and see if there's a Canadian alternative.

If you won't leave Canada then forget it. The medical device market in Canada is fucked up. Health Canada is stupid on a level you can't imagine. They buy shit products at dirt cheap prices and Canadian citizens are stoked about it because the dipshits think everything is free.

Basically the Canadian government wants you to pay $5,000 to $200,000 up front for access to the market every year. Then they only do bids once every 3 to 5 years. So, this is usually handled by a corporate government account specialist in the US. Once the Canuck government buys whatever 10 years out of date piece of Chinese made bullshit they plan to fuck up patients with... they force everyone to use it. So, reps are rarely needed.

Basically what I'm saying is that Canada is a medical shithole. It works good if you are young and healthy. If you ever need surgery for anything... RUN! FUCKING RUN! Canadian surgeons are the bottom of the barrel. In Toronto they are still doing surgeries open that even 3rd world countries are doing laproscopic. Thats insane.

Sorry for the Tirade. I once spent 3 years as nation sales manager for Canada along with the Western US. I rate this health system one of the worst in the industrialized world.

Well, so much for medical sales.

I completely understand your tirade. It would be hard to keep cool in the face of incompetence and out right bullshit.

But it sounds perfect for someone like ChicagoFire, way better starting out than in tech sales.

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I tried signing up for the 3 month membership but it keeps giving me an error message. I'm waiting to hear back from customer service. Also another point to keep in mind is that site will auto bill you so if you can't keep track of your expenses and all that jazz medreps won't be a good fit.

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(02-15-2019 10:06 AM)Zeroblack Wrote:  Well, so much for medical sales.
I completely understand your tirade. It would be hard to keep cool in the face of incompetence and out right bullshit.
But it sounds perfect for someone like ChicagoFire, way better starting out than in tech sales.

Just do it in the US.

(02-15-2019 10:26 AM)ChicagoFire Wrote:  I tried signing up for the 3 month membership but it keeps giving me an error message. I'm waiting to hear back from customer service. Also another point to keep in mind is that site will auto bill you so if you can't keep track of your expenses and all that jazz medreps won't be a good fit.

I wouldn't pay Medreps right away. Just find the job you like and put the description and location into google. Sometimes you can find the job posting on a recruiters website. It doesn't work every time because some places use MedReps exclusively. They charge money to keep the riffraff out.

Also if you find something that interests you, PM me and I might be able to link you up with the company or the recruiter. A lot of the companies on MedReps don't show their name right off the bat.

I think a good place for you to start looking is the careers section of McKesson, Medline, Cardinal, Fisher Scientific, Stryker, Medtronic, and J&J. Those companies all have rookie programs to some degree and are often willing to bring people from outside.

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^^
Ha I signed up yesterday just more motivation to fill out apps (skin in the game). Besides even just anything in the 40K range is life changing since I owe student loans.

I'm looking into McKesson, Medline, Cardinal, Fisher Scientific, Stryker, Medtronic, and J&J right now. I'm changing job searching tacts right now. Instead of primarily spending my own precious time I'll just job search while I have downtime at my job. I also notice McKesson has warehouse work. One tact I could do is work in the warehouse for 6 months and request a transfer into sales. I may take you up on your offer EE let me just put in the grunt work and we'll see how everything plays out

Also don't be offended since I am job searching not only in sales but in 2 other industries. That's why I'm not relying on you or pestering you with questions. Once I get a job that is acceptable to my standards I'll thank everybody who helped me out.

To anybody who doesn't follow my posts I have been working in the food industry for 7 years, working deadend jobs and have been trying to get out for about 5 years. I've been on and off about it since it's demoralizing at times but if I can do it you can get out of a bad situation! Always be persistent!

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Interesting thread. I work in the UK as a regional account manager with a 1m book of business and c. 140 accounts to manage. The bulk of jobs in the UK will pay no more than 40k$ basic with commission hovering around 2k tops per month. Yes, there are outlier jobs but even most sales directors I know are not getting 6 figure. Realistically you will get a field sales rep job and do 3 visits per day as a kpi and grow your pipeline by recognising opportunities to up sell and upgrade. Generally speaking a 50k$ job is very good in the UK for the majority of the country outside the south. Average UK salary is 24k and even the pressure for sales jobs is immense. I'm currently selling into oil and gas and thinking trying to break into that sector as the monetary gain is way better. Pipelining and creative ways to drive business is exactly the same principle as Game. It's about understanding needs and positioning a solution whether its functional or emotional. Pipeline. Pipeline. Pipeline.

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EndsExpect
I'm living with family in Canada and I can't leave at the moment. But the good news is that I'm seeing results with Tech. I'm actually more excited to see ChicagoFire's progress with Med device sales than my own with Tech.

ChicagoFire
You're definitely right about being demoralized sometimes. I went through 3 rounds of interviews with one company but the offer wasn't made. It seemed like they really liked me but that's life. The next step is to focus on 2 second round interviews this week and push it as far as it can go.

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I have been working from home in a B2B sales role for quite some time now. I lived as a digital nomad for about 5 years but now have settled down with my Estonian wife and live in Estonia. I work exclusively on B2B sales projects and have 3 contractors that help me with lead generation and cold calling and I share commission with these girls. This allows me to focus my time on closing instead of prospecting. Estonia is a great place to setup your financial center from if your sales is remote and location independent as Estonia has an E residency program and also a shit ton of Blue Eyed Blondes.

I fucking love my lifestyle . its not for everyone . I have the freedom to set my own hours and work from anywhere that internet is decent. Projects tend to have lifecycles so keeping savings and being adaptable are important. Ill also say that 80% of folks arent cut our for it from a skills standpoint and of the people that have the skill set 80% of those dont have the work ethic as self starters. That said if you can get a contract for remote B2B sales and make it work , its a great match for Game and Travel.

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You're living the life Iconoclast.

For the people looking to get into this field, can you elaborate on what you mean by 80% of folks don't have the skills for it.

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Zero Black.

Its called the 80/20 rule. 20 % of the sales people make 80% of the money. Being thick skinned enough to handle rejection. Overcoming objections that most sales guys cower to. And having a tenacious work ethis are essential atributes. When you add in the remote aspect which requires self starting and saying no to distractions an aditional 80% of sales guys that can sell in a structured environment, fail when working remotely.

Sales is alot like game. Infact before I learned and started practicing gaming women I was a succsessfull sales proffesional and usually outperformed sales teams of 30+ closers. I just never transferred the skillset to women. Once I made the connection wvwrything was downhill from there and my life got a hell of alot better!

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Here's another idea:

I've found sales internships on the medreps site. Yay or nay? Even at just 36K that's much more than what I've made in the food industry. I'm specifically referring to Medical Sales College. I hate settling for singles and would rather shoot for 80K but if the opportunity comes along I might just take it for the experience.

Edit:
Oh shit just 8 weeks of training at a "measly" 6-8K (college can cost 20K per year) and you can potentially make approximately 150K???? This is a bit too good to be true. Would love to hear from the RooshV community about this.

http://medicalsalescollege.com/

https://www.reddit.com/r/sales/comments/...ont_shoot/
I'm getting the read of it isn't a scam but you will have to put in insane hours even after you get hired...FUCKING WOW!!!!

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@Zeroblack - January and February most companies are not really hiring. However, by March it should start moving because companies are ready to hire all the fresh graduates for SDR roles.

Check out The Leadership Agency, it’s a recruitment agency in Toronto and they have a few job postings for SaaS sales.

Honestly, just keep applying until you get a job. It’s a numbers game at the end of the day, with a little creativity and luck. Be optimistic and confident, and I’m sure you’ll land a job.

I’ll say it again! Startups are desperate for quality SDRs!!!

Good Luck

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(02-19-2019 08:35 PM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  Zero Black.

Its called the 80/20 rule. 20 % of the sales people make 80% of the money. Being thick skinned enough to handle rejection. Overcoming objections that most sales guys cower to. And having a tenacious work ethis are essential atributes. When you add in the remote aspect which requires self starting and saying no to distractions an aditional 80% of sales guys that can sell in a structured environment, fail when working remotely.

Sales is alot like game. Infact before I learned and started practicing gaming women I was a succsessfull sales proffesional and usually outperformed sales teams of 30+ closers. I just never transferred the skillset to women. Once I made the connection wvwrything was downhill from there and my life got a hell of alot better!

I see your point. But let me get it right, are you saying 80% of people have the skills for it and are able to hit numbers but they're not superstars? or it's not for everyone because they simply lack one of the necessary skills to be successful at selling in any environment?

Not to take away from your posts, I'm just trying to understand precisely what you mean.

(02-20-2019 02:19 AM)Aviel Wrote:  @Zeroblack - January and February most companies are not really hiring. However, by March it should start moving because companies are ready to hire all the fresh graduates for SDR roles.

Check out The Leadership Agency, it’s a recruitment agency in Toronto and they have a few job postings for SaaS sales.

Honestly, just keep applying until you get a job. It’s a numbers game at the end of the day, with a little creativity and luck. Be optimistic and confident, and I’m sure you’ll land a job.

I’ll say it again! Startups are desperate for quality SDRs!!!

Good Luck

Fuck man, I thought it was just me because they say hiring seasons are from Jan to May. And here I am doing role play assignments for second round interviews but thinking, "are startups really that desperate?". I don't know if it's the time of year or if Toronto is just really shitty.

I haven't encountered that recruitment agency before, that's a really good tool. I'm gonna look into it, thanks bro.

You are right man, it is a numbers game. But when hr is asking the same few questions that don't even relate to how I'm gonna do the job, it gets old real quick. Sorry for the bitching.

Salesforce and a startup contacted me for phone interviews this week. Will update at the end of the week how things go.
Cheers!

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Zero Black.

80% of sales people will just barely get by. 20% of sales guys close most of the deals and 80 peecent of the money. .

I know of a company in Canada that could be looking for a serious guy like you. Shoot me a PM and we can discuss.

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Just got off the phone with a recruiter from MSC:

They offer internships which are very competitive and next openings are for the Florida location in May. Pay is 36K and after 1 year of working they give you free tuition into their program.

If you don't want to go that route they do have their 8 or 12 week program. 12 weeks is for a dual study 8 is for one subject. There's also an online program.

Like OP and countless others have said in sales employers want to see if you have drive. If you do go through this program very important word of advice is to be prepared for the interview. I was told point blank they will correlate being clueless with being clueless in the surgical room. The recruiter emphasized that it would help to have B2B experience but if you don't there's potential to "settle" for a role as an ASR. You make 50K supporting the sales rep but don't have to sell. Once you get a year of experience you can move up.

I'm on the fence about this and I'll research for 2 hours and fill out an application later today. Even at just 50K I will make more than middle management at my deadend food industry jobs (some with 10+ years of experience). With higher education program they always say there's people that will help you out with placement which is a total lie. My alma mater pretty much threw me under the bus when I graduated and took my money. Bottom line is this isn't a scam but don't expect to half ass everyday in class and get a job. To get the most out of this program you have to excel at your classes and network like crazy as a student.

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Zero Black.

Its called the 80/20 rule. 20 % of the sales people make 80% of the money. Being thick skinned enough to handle rejection. Overcoming objections that most sales guys cower to. And having a tenacious work ethis are essential atributes. When you add in the remote aspect which requires self starting and saying no to distractions an aditional 80% of sales guys that can sell in a structured environment, fail when working remotely.

Sales is alot like game. Infact before I learned and started practicing gaming women I was a succsessfull sales proffesional and usually outperformed sales teams of 30+ closers. I just never transferred the skillset to women. Once I made the connection wvwrything was downhill from there and my life got a hell of alot better!


I wouldn't take this post too seriously.

He's right about the 80/20 rule. 20% of salespeople that take the right steps, choose the right industry and a company with a game changing product, make 80% of the money.

If you dick around in B2C, door to door sales, startups, etc then yeah, most guys won't make shit except the top performers.

Selling shouldn't be incredibly difficult. It's picking a company that people want to talk to, with good marketing, inbound leads, brand name, being persistent, and applying some pressure for the close.

I don't even look at companies where more than 10-20% of reps are making less than 200k. It's setting myself up for failure.

Being a good salesperson is important. What's more important is choosing the right industry (tech or medical device) and the right product.

I can take the top 20 salespeople from enterprise tech with seven figure W2s and put them in a 1099 gig selling life insurance and they won't break 50k. Those 20 salespeople got to where they are because of solid skills, but mostly because of applying their talent in the right place at the right time.

"You'll make the most money in sales" is potentially the worst career advice of all time because it doesn't differentiate between the guy selling you your cell phone plan or your Nissan and the guy who sold $300 million of IBM mainframes to one of the largest companies in the world.

Everyone should consider themselves fortunate that I'm here telling you the difference, because early in my career I didn't have that guidance and spent too much time in low paying shit thinking that I'd be the 1% making a killing.

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Thank you Graft.

I had a crap day today but when I open up my computer and see this forum I know I have thousands of years of experience in my fingertips. Why bother reinventing the wheel, watch how successful people give advice and conversely how people fail miserably. If you put effort into improving your life you will eventually accomplish your goals (within reason).

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(02-20-2019 07:14 AM)Zeroblack Wrote:  

(02-19-2019 08:35 PM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  Zero Black.

Its called the 80/20 rule. 20 % of the sales people make 80% of the money. Being thick skinned enough to handle rejection. Overcoming objections that most sales guys cower to. And having a tenacious work ethis are essential atributes. When you add in the remote aspect which requires self starting and saying no to distractions an aditional 80% of sales guys that can sell in a structured environment, fail when working remotely.

Sales is alot like game. Infact before I learned and started practicing gaming women I was a succsessfull sales proffesional and usually outperformed sales teams of 30+ closers. I just never transferred the skillset to women. Once I made the connection wvwrything was downhill from there and my life got a hell of alot better!

I see your point. But let me get it right, are you saying 80% of people have the skills for it and are able to hit numbers but they're not superstars? or it's not for everyone because they simply lack one of the necessary skills to be successful at selling in any environment?

Not to take away from your posts, I'm just trying to understand precisely what you mean.

(02-20-2019 02:19 AM)Aviel Wrote:  @Zeroblack - January and February most companies are not really hiring. However, by March it should start moving because companies are ready to hire all the fresh graduates for SDR roles.

Check out The Leadership Agency, it’s a recruitment agency in Toronto and they have a few job postings for SaaS sales.

Honestly, just keep applying until you get a job. It’s a numbers game at the end of the day, with a little creativity and luck. Be optimistic and confident, and I’m sure you’ll land a job.

I’ll say it again! Startups are desperate for quality SDRs!!!

Good Luck

Fuck man, I thought it was just me because they say hiring seasons are from Jan to May. And here I am doing role play assignments for second round interviews but thinking, "are startups really that desperate?". I don't know if it's the time of year or if Toronto is just really shitty.

I haven't encountered that recruitment agency before, that's a really good tool. I'm gonna look into it, thanks bro.

You are right man, it is a numbers game. But when hr is asking the same few questions that don't even relate to how I'm gonna do the job, it gets old real quick. Sorry for the bitching.

Salesforce and a startup contacted me for phone interviews this week. Will update at the end of the week how things go.
Cheers!

Salesforce is one of those companies where you can get a job as a SDR, work hard, get promoted to a closing role, and be making 200k+ in a few years with recruiters hitting you up every day for the rest of your life. No pressure or anything

I did four separate "phone interviews" with Salesforce over a few years. They are really nothing more than a screen where a recruiter collects some basic job history and passes it off to a hiring manager. Don't get your hopes up yet. They never even advanced me to a real interview and I would have worked for them for free. Now one of their recruiters hit me up for 175k field job and I didn't even want to interview.

Companies like Salesforce pretty much own the market for what they do, the gold standard in both CRM and SaaS. A great place to start your career.

If anyone needs help evaluating a tech offer then PM me, I'll take a look at the company and look for my usual green/red flags.

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(02-20-2019 02:19 AM)Aviel Wrote:  @Zeroblack - January and February most companies are not really hiring. However, by March it should start moving because companies are ready to hire all the fresh graduates for SDR roles.

Check out The Leadership Agency, it’s a recruitment agency in Toronto and they have a few job postings for SaaS sales.

Honestly, just keep applying until you get a job. It’s a numbers game at the end of the day, with a little creativity and luck. Be optimistic and confident, and I’m sure you’ll land a job.

I’ll say it again! Startups are desperate for quality SDRs!!!

Good Luck

For everyone that's in this position, it's the toughest part of your career. I was there. I even saw someone post about giving up and working on the oil rigs which I was thinking about 4 years ago or so.

Guys that are in Chicago or Toronto, you could get lucky (Netsuite and Salesforce are the best SDR gigs in Chicago), but be prepared to move. Only certain cities are good for SDR gigs. Companies typically don't like to hire them in expensive cities (except for SF) because it's a low level phone based position that they dont want to pay 60k base salary for. Cities that are good:

Bay Area (the best): Oracle, Cisco, Salesforce, Symantec, Intuit, Box, Dropbox, Adobe, pretty much every tech company hires SDRs out of here
Austin (second best): Oracle, Apple, Dell, Google, VMware, Box, Dropbox, Cloudera, MongoDB, Informatica
Boston: Oracle, Hubspot, Marketo, Dell

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^^
Re: oil fields
That was probably me. When I job search from now on I know what I'm good at and blitz multiple industries across multiple state lines. I come from the food industry where my bosses fight over nickels, even just 40K let alone 90K is life changing. I'm one of those people that can't sit on his hands and wait for a great employer or recruiter to contact me back, some say I'm hyper.

I got spare time tomorrow so I'll apply for those companies and cities, thanks once again Graft.

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Graft.

Since you felt compelled to make the comment

Perhaps you can point out specificly what about my post is to not be taken seriously.

Fyi- I am a sales manager for a tech firm that operates in US, Canada and UK. I have managed many sales teams on multiple initiatives in half a dozen industries. What I wrote has proven to be true. Every. Single. Time.

I find it a red flag that you disagree with what I wrote.

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(02-21-2019 09:14 AM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  Graft.

Since you felt compelled to make the comment

Perhaps you can point out specificly what about my post is to not be taken seriously.

Fyi- I am a sales manager for a tech firm that operates in US, Canada and UK. I have managed many sales teams on multiple initiatives in half a dozen industries. What I wrote has proven to be true. Every. Single. Time.

I find it a red flag that you disagree with what I wrote.

I feel that companies/industries that have an 80/20 rule are simply on the lower ends of the spectrum in the sales industry.

Like I said, if I evaluate an opportunity and there is a large pareto principle in the sales team, I won't take the opportunity. I encourage everyone who is considering this as a career to do the same. People should be gunning for jobs with a six figure base and 200k+ median earnings for the sales team. If a sales manager tells you that only 20% of the team hits their quota, you either need to change industries or change companies.

I don't encourage people to try to become the top 10-20% of an industry where half the reps fail and don't hit number. I encourage people to look at opportunities where even if they are dead average, they make well into six figures.

The only times that you see an 80/20 rule in a top tech company is when 20% of the team blows out their number and makes 400k+, while the rest of the team is stuck at around 200k or so.

This is what I'm getting at.

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I have never seen a sales team at any level were the pareto principle did not apply. It may be relative to the industry in context to volume but it always applies. Period.


Ive sold in the M&A space, high end corporate insurance, Technology, Legal and Accounting. I have never once seen anything but the pareto principle in action. Every. Single. Time.

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(02-21-2019 01:57 PM)Iconoclast007 Wrote:  Ive sold in the M&A space, high end corporate insurance, Technology, Legal and Accounting. I have never once seen anything but the pareto principle in action. Every. Single. Time.

I would also invoke people from staying away from this path.

It's still possible to switch industries mid-late career, but sales teams are becoming more and more specialized. Building a career in "sales" across multiple industries is not a path to the top.

For senior reps and managers, companies are not only asking for 5-10 years of tech sales experience, but 5-10 years of tech experience within a vertical (financial technology, public sector technology, etc)

My advice: pick tech or medical device and stick with it. Understand that as a medical device rep, you can get hired to a good job at a couple of top tech companies that recruit from device. It will still make your path to VP slower than if you started in tech.

I've never seen a VP of sales that sold across more than two unrelated industries.

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You couldnt pay me enough money to work in an office environment in the USSA. CANADA UK etc. Its suicide.

Because I have experience in many verticals I am adaptable, resilient and robust. Well prepared for navigating this rapidly changing world. I would definitely not reccomend putting all your eggs in one basket.

I work from home, as does my team. I have lived and worked all over the world. Especially as it pertains to this forum. Ill share that my career path has allowed me to live as a perpetual traveler following my passions like Gaming women, Bowhunting, Spearfishing, Sailing, Martial Arts, motorcycles, windsurfing etc.. Ive lived in Colombia, Mexico, Namibia, Ukraine, Estonia, im headed to Spain soon. Im married to a beautiful blue eyed blonde that is submissive and feminine. I have 2 beautiful children.... None of that would have likely happened living in a shithole city selling medical devices. .

Those VP of sales guys at established firms make big bucks but they are all fucking miserable from exchanging their freedom and passions for money.

I place more value on my freedom and location independance than the size of my income. That said, i make enough to live my own personal dream.

I live my life with alot of the concepts that Tim Ferris talks about in his book 4 hour work week.

Be very careful taking any advice from a guy like Graft, although your likely to make some money. It will likely be at the expense of your dreams, passions... In short it will crush your soul.

Just food for thaught.

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