Post: #51

^ I think a lot of people lie about work satisfaction like women lie about sex partners.

I know many guys that are at least okay with their job or even say yeah they like it.

Deep down though I know 2 friends that really love their work.

One is a musician that teaches special kids.

The other is an artist/stylist that sells paintings, does women's hair, and shoots.

The rest do not have that fire in their eye or light in their voice when they talk about their work.

Yes many are satisfied or content - I believe if you washed it away and showed them a different way to live they wouldn't go back.

The 2 friends I talk about also don't identify with their jobs as them as people. It is just a lane of expression for them. If you gave either of those guys millions no way they'd being doing the same gigs and jobs either.

My experiences and views often clash with the masses.

My work is very comfy, challenging and creative work that buils skills, many perks, security, great intelligent coworkers. On a survey I'd be greatly satisfied. I like those 2 friends though if given a financial freedom not to, would easily opt out and find higher level ways to spend our time.

I don't have to convince people they aren't truly satisfied.

The fat soft body, glazy eyes, high score netflix stats, craft beer, bad clothes, and mediocre girlfriends that nag and can't cook is punishment enough.

Post: #52

This thread is slowly devolving from learning lessons from the article, and into politics.

Post: #53

My dad is rich (net worth of several million) and was able to leave his corporate job this year to focus on his restaurants and other investments.

My mom and stepdad are probably on the upper edge of the middle class here in the Midwest with a combined income of probably $150,000 + a paid-for house. My mom only has to work part time.

I was talking to my mom the other day and she mentioned that, at 51, her and my stepdad would love to retire. But they can't, even though they've got the money to live comfortably, because of potential health care costs down the road. She's gotta keep working so she can afford the possibility of having to live in a nursing home at 88.

At least for a certain segment of the middle class, I think this partially explains why the job market is somewhat stagnant. Mom and stepdad, both of whom have good jobs, would love to leave the working world 15 years early, freeing up jobs for young people, but can't. The friends I still keep in touch with from high school all say the same thing: parents have more than enough to cover living expenses until the end of their lives, but don't have enough to live comfortably with anticipated health care costs.

There's a woman in my mom's neighborhood who has a mother living with dementia in a local home for the elderly. The woman and her professional siblings are now digging into their savings to pay for the nursing home costs, because the mother has already spent her savings on previous health care issues, and also for the health costs of her now-deceased husband. This neighbor told my mom that her parents spent a "literal fortune" on health care costs. Somewhere in the upper six-figures, I believe.

Such a shame that here, in the greatest country in the world, you gotta choose between working/health care/death.

Post: #54

This is an upsetting topic that's for sure

Post: #55

(12-22-2016 11:52 PM)jj90 Wrote:  

(12-22-2016 11:27 PM)dallasguy Wrote:  IMO the worst field is IT whether support or programming. You're over the hill by age 40. Nobody will hire you unless you have Silicon Valley or Seattle on your resume. They don't value experience, so putting 15 years of work on your resume is a negative. You basically have to be top 5% and make a shitload by the time you're 30 and start your own business as a consultant after that.

I agree with the ageism in tech and support being redundant, but I disagree about the experience/time spent at least from a developer standing.

1)I don't know what job market you are in, on the West Coast where I'm at a guy who has multiple years of experience across many stacks and deep knowledge in niches get snapped up rapidly. If you are in buttfuck nowhere Kansas, yeah get to the coast or get a remote position.

2)A developer should not be grunt developing at 40. You either move up or out. If you are still an entry level code monkey, yeah your expendable.

I can co-sign this. In my experience 40 is not old and I just had to interview 3 candidates for a senior level developer position and all three candidates were over 40. All of the most sought after senior level developers and architects that I have delt with have been between 40-50.

Post: #56

The higher the education, the higher the debt and the higher the pressure to find a job to pay that debt. Yeah a Doctorate may have a job, but not necessarily in what he studied.

Post: #57

Bumping this thread.

I was recently laid off after my company moved me from the US to the UK. It was a significant blow to my career trajectory and the wife and I fell in love with England. It's been very difficult for us to accept that we'll have to leave in a few weeks.

The worst part is, the reason I was laid off was because my visa and title was tied to my old title of "support" and we had outsourced our entire support team once I moved here. So some new IRT suit comes in, sees my title, and says "gtfo of here!" even though my title is nowhere in line with what I was actually doing. Realistically, my title should have been junior business analyst considering what I was doing.

Even worse, the dipshit that I was never asked for an exit clause or a change to my title when I was applying for this work. Dumb dumb dumb. Stupid hard lessons learned. I was so starry eyed with a new international job that I didn't think critically.

I will not be making these mistakes again. Though, I don't know if i'll get lucky like this again.

Post: #58

Bump,

Has the job market improved with the lastest oil crash? typically manufacturing and services pick up after a commodity crash, especially with tariffs that trump's gona put on products from abroad.

Post: #59

I agree with mostly everything said so far in this thread. As a person who works in white collar land I am bothered that most of it can be done remotely yet companies still force you to go into an office where you have to be surrounded by low energy assholes, making you to take an hour lunch, and then do a commute everyday.

Anyway the girlfriend will be getting $20/hr for a remote job that she can complete whenever she wants but she is worried about the pay. I laughed at her because she is worried about the pay yet after I explained to her why she is so lucky she calmed down. Right now my girlfriend lives with parents (pays zero rent) but now she has a job she can do in her pajamas, a job that avoids most of the social bullshit of work, a job where she does not have to commute, a job that has almost zero work expenses, and a job that can be done her job at 1-2pm if she wakes up early enough.

The only thing that sucks about remote jobs is that you have almost zero social contact with other people, however you do get to decide who you interact with meaning you can surround yourself with way better people then you ever would at work.

(04-04-2017 07:13 PM)Jack Of All Trades Wrote:  Bump,

Has the job market improved with the lastest oil crash? typically manufacturing and services pick up after a commodity crash, especially with tariffs that trump's gona put on products from abroad.

I am in Calgary and the economic situation is still pretty dire. There is still work but mainly lower end, contract-employee jobs that would allow an extremely frugal single man to barely scrap by provided he has no debt or responsibilities. Any job that is some what decent gets flooded by resumes.

The upside is when I go to work there are far less people clogging up public transportation and the roads.

Post: #60

^the issue with remote work is you don't really get to meet people in industry, I don't know about you but physically meeting people is a great way to meet people and keep in touch. I've found this really important as they can give you good info on what's going on. Also working remote means your skills are interchangeable, your just a cog in a machine and don't have that contact with managers and other staff.

Post: #61

Technology has eliminated the need for worker drones, while at the same time the population has exploded exponentially.

Where these two facts meet is a place where there are no meaningful jobs for a large section of the population now.

Probably 80% of jobs are just made up shit anyway, and do not contribute to real society (food/energy production, medical etc)

We are going to see this trend get worse and worse.

Post: #62

9 Million in a country of over 350 million people.

It will only get worse.

Post: #63

(04-10-2017 04:01 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Technology has eliminated the need for worker drones, while at the same time the population has exploded exponentially.

Where these two facts meet is a place where there are no meaningful jobs for a large section of the population now.

Probably 80% of jobs are just made up shit anyway, and do not contribute to real society (food/energy production, medical etc)

We are going to see this trend get worse and worse.

My professor was just saying this yesterday. We all need to find ways to make it in the high-tech, high-skilled economy or we're fucked. He pretty much said we are going to end up in an era where large portions of the population will just not have jobs. Nearly everything is going to be automated.

Post: #64

(04-10-2017 02:43 PM)Jack Of All Trades Wrote:  ^the issue with remote work is you don't really get to meet people in industry, I don't know about you but physically meeting people is a great way to meet people and keep in touch. I've found this really important as they can give you good info on what's going on. Also working remote means your skills are interchangeable, your just a cog in a machine and don't have that contact with managers and other staff.

My wife has a remote job and as video conferences every single day. People see her face and talk with her daily.

It's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world. I still think it's better to be in an office and meet with people all over. It's a great way to network and keep in touch.

Post: #65

9 million American Men in prime working age sounds like "able bodied" to me.There are plenty of vacancies in our American Military, Zero Sympathy. I've watched several people go above and beyond to meet height/weight and educational standards to enlist, people like this contribute to the problem.

Post: #66

Well that's a recent development. The military was downsizing not that long ago.

I was already in the military, they don't want me back.

Post: #67

I'm one of those in the statistics -- good college degree,solid academic background, can't find any job.Luckily I tutor and can work from home and have ZERO debts...but that's hardly a consolation. I've lived abroad many years doing independent type of jobs and the fact that I don't have a clear cut career path (eg: I'm not a corporate drone) has severely damaged me...but I will carry on somehow. I've literally send thousands of resumes (yes, thousands) and no reply at all that is of any significance.

Post: #68

(04-13-2017 08:44 AM)weambulance Wrote:  Well that's a recent development. The military was downsizing not that long ago.

I was already in the military, they don't want me back.

They are. Got several friends in and they're all sweating to pass the tests for their next promotion, else they'll be discharged.

Post: #69

Don't even have to read past the article's title before seeing he's his own worst problem.

"9 million American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them..."

He's sure to state his excuse for his problem before anything else. Classic victim mentality.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #70

(12-24-2016 12:07 AM)Travesty Wrote:  The fat soft body, glazy eyes, high score netflix stats, craft beer, bad clothes, and mediocre girlfriends that nag and can't cook is punishment enough.

Post: #71

I call that the 4 months later backhand.

Post: #72

(04-11-2017 05:11 PM)Laurifer Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:01 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Technology has eliminated the need for worker drones, while at the same time the population has exploded exponentially.

Where these two facts meet is a place where there are no meaningful jobs for a large section of the population now.

Probably 80% of jobs are just made up shit anyway, and do not contribute to real society (food/energy production, medical etc)

We are going to see this trend get worse and worse.

My professor was just saying this yesterday. We all need to find ways to make it in the high-tech, high-skilled economy or we're fucked. He pretty much said we are going to end up in an era where large portions of the population will just not have jobs. Nearly everything is going to be automated.

This doom conclusion is usually overstated. I'm in an industry where they claim AI has been "about to take it over" for 30+ years. Now, mine is a very specialized and high level with lots of barriers to entry (medicine) so it is a bit different, but the idea I think still holds.

(04-13-2017 08:27 AM)PV2X Wrote:  9 million American Men in prime working age sounds like "able bodied" to me.There are plenty of vacancies in our American Military, Zero Sympathy. I've watched several people go above and beyond to meet height/weight and educational standards to enlist, people like this contribute to the problem.

This is the catch-22 thing, because it is such a great idea given the 20 year fulfillment, then pension. Usually those that know about the military have known it was likely their whole lives. So they do ROTC type stuff and at least get college paid for after duty. Or they just "lifer" it. It's a harder decision to just randomly take if you don't have family members in it, or you're in the mid to late 20s all of a sudden ...

Post: #73

People who provide REAL value are in demand more than ever. Computers and robots can certainly speed up mindless processes, but they will never be able to replace a person who provides real value.

Seemingly every kid coming out of college thinks they are entitled to a cushy office job paying $60K plus where you can work exactly 9-5 and do nothing but make mindless spreadsheets, Powerpoints, and long-winded emails just because they graduated from college. I was one of them - I didn't bother to get an internship or learn any meaningful business skills in college because I thought a resume that said I had a 3.8 GPA was "proficient at Microsoft Office" was all that I needed. I learned the hard way that this is not how it works.

If you aren't creating value, the economy is not going to pay you. If you find yourself constantly "bored" at work, your days are numbered. Eventually someone who actually creates value will identify your useless ass and replace you with a more cost effective solution.

Joining the construction industry a couple years ago has been a truly eye-opening experience. Skipping colllege to learn a trade was looked down upon when I was graduating high school - I was so smart and could never be just a plumber.

Nowadays I use my fancy office skills to contract out construction work to these guys, some who barely know how to send a legible email. Even though some of the jobs I pitch are worth six- or seven-figure sums, I get turned down regularly because these guys already have too much work on their plate! They don't know how to send an email or how to market their business on social media because they are too busy getting paid very well for doing highly valuable work to waste time on that bullshit. Value can be created in an infinite number of ways, but it is on YOU to figure out how. Luckily I think I have found my personal method in just the past few months. I'm 30.

If you want to live in an expensive city, eat out for every meal, and drive a nice car, but don't have a single skill that 100 million other people in the USA alone can do just as well or better - you are going to be one disappointed, broke motherfucker.