Post: #26

I'm going to chime in and add to the chorus: any girl who has ever gone out of her way to tell me how f--ked up/damaged/alone she is has always been notably crazy (beyond the normal "all chicks are crazy" crazy) and has been terrible at pair bonding and forming healthy relationships.

It was good of you to let her go. I say next time, go with your instincts and don't even waste time on a 2nd date.

Post: #27

Several days after I told this girl I didn't want to date, she texted me with an invitation to her house, and we banged. Expressing casual disinterest really does work. However, it was not a good decision, and I can't make any excuse except that I was thinking with my dick.

From my standpoint it was an overall regrettable experience. She on the other hand sent me a text this morning to say how happy she was, and how wonderful the night had been.

I am in a sort of funk trying to process the experience because it caught me off guard. Once we were naked in her bed, I realized she has a lot of belly fat that I hadn't noticed. It's sweater season, and she still has an hourglass shape due to her substantial hips, which I liked.

It was physically difficult to have sex. I realized in the midst of it that of the dozen women I have had sex with, they have all been in at least decent physical shape, if not very well put together. Never before have I had difficulty staying aroused during sex, and I think my partners would say the same.

Fortunately I was able to maneuver her well enough, focus, and deliver a few good orgasms. It was mentally and physically exhausting, but I didn't want to risk any next-day regret on her part. Walking out could have been a disaster.

I am now absolutely certain that America's obesity problem is substantially responsible for bad marriages and relationships in general. I guess I knew it abstractly, but this was really an eye-opening experience. I do feel somewhat guilty for validating this chick, because now I am part of the problem.

[attachment=35228]

Post: #28

^ Hey at least the first 12 were in good shape much better than most Amercan guys can say.

I think most men realize it is better to wait for the higher shelf goods.

I harshly attack number inflaters and deniers of the 10 scale for this reason.

Guys saying they bang 8's that are 5.5's probably also treat them like 8's which pumps up their egos.

These men work hand in hand with the Devil in my world.

Post: #29

(12-31-2016 12:02 PM)Travesty Wrote:  ^ Hey at least the first 12 were in good shape much better than most Amercan guys can say.

I think most men realize it is better to wait for the higher shelf goods.

I harshly attack number inflaters and deniers of the 10 scale for this reason.

Guys saying they bang 8's that are 5.5's probably also treat them like 8's which pumps up their egos.

These men work hand in hand with the Devil in my world.

It's sort of an exponential scale, I think.

A 9 is a girl who you might see in the real world out on the street in a major city one or twice a year. Cars drive into each other when she crosses the street, like in "Desperado." I can count the number of 9 I've seen in my life on my fingers and have some to spare. It's an event to remember.

90% of men (players included) will never bang an 8.

A 7 is a girl who most men would chop their left ballsac off to marry. Even a 30 y/o 7 who is single will have a line of suitors out the door.

A 6 is a pretty cute girl, maybe a bit too short or a few extra pounds that prevents her from being beautiful but perfectly bangable no problem at all. Most blue-pill men would be happy to wife up a 6.

A 5 is your standard issue slobby American woman. On any given Saturday night at a club in Boston, I'd say 50% of the women are a 5 or below. Of the other half, perhaps 10% are above a 6.

This is likely better than many places in the US.

Post: #30

The thing in the OP just sounds like typical female bullshit that has no real meaning worth analysing.

However if a girl was to tell me she'd been in a toxic relationship before, I'd take it as a warning that getting in a relationship with her would be setting myself up to be in a toxic relationship, be grateful for the heads up and get the fuck out!

Post: #31

(12-31-2016 05:04 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

(12-31-2016 12:02 PM)Travesty Wrote:  ^ Hey at least the first 12 were in good shape much better than most Amercan guys can say.

I think most men realize it is better to wait for the higher shelf goods.

I harshly attack number inflaters and deniers of the 10 scale for this reason.

Guys saying they bang 8's that are 5.5's probably also treat them like 8's which pumps up their egos.

These men work hand in hand with the Devil in my world.

It's sort of an exponential scale, I think.

A 9 is a girl who you might see in the real world out on the street in a major city one or twice a year. Cars drive into each other when she crosses the street, like in "Desperado." I can count the number of 9 I've seen in my life on my fingers and have some to spare. It's an event to remember.

What? wow. move to a better city. Check out a college campus or 2. Maybe I'm jaded from living in California, but I see hot women all the time.

Post: #32

(12-31-2016 05:04 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

(12-31-2016 12:02 PM)Travesty Wrote:  ^ Hey at least the first 12 were in good shape much better than most Amercan guys can say.

I think most men realize it is better to wait for the higher shelf goods.

I harshly attack number inflaters and deniers of the 10 scale for this reason.

Guys saying they bang 8's that are 5.5's probably also treat them like 8's which pumps up their egos.

These men work hand in hand with the Devil in my world.

It's sort of an exponential scale, I think.

A 9 is a girl who you might see in the real world out on the street in a major city one or twice a year. Cars drive into each other when she crosses the street, like in "Desperado." I can count the number of 9 I've seen in my life on my fingers and have some to spare. It's an event to remember.

90% of men (players included) will never bang an 8.

A 7 is a girl who most men would chop their left ballsac off to marry. Even a 30 y/o 7 who is single will have a line of suitors out the door.

A 6 is a pretty cute girl, maybe a bit too short or a few extra pounds that prevents her from being beautiful but perfectly bangable no problem at all. Most blue-pill men would be happy to wife up a 6.

A 5 is your standard issue slobby American woman. On any given Saturday night at a club in Boston, I'd say 50% of the women are a 5 or below. Of the other half, perhaps 10% are above a 6.

This is likely better than many places in the US.

I thought it was a linear scale!

As in a 10 is just the top 10%

This is a topic that needs to be clarified!!!

Post: #33

I think he advocates the position that a 10 does not exist in real life because all the guys will never agree on the same woman being "perfect".

Post: #34

Referring to the title of the thread, the first thing to ask yourself is who was actually the toxic element in the relationship that she mentions; furthermore, if she talks in a similar vein about several relationships, then what, or rather who, is the common factor?

Post: #35

@Nordwand

Completely agree. Most women project their own faults unto other people: "Look at her! All she want's is this guy's money!", "What a slut!", etc.

Post: #36

Usually chicks that continuously enter into toxic relationships:

Just love the Chads too much (want to change the bad boys when they are untamable)
Just honestly don't know any better

The 1st option is more likely 9 times out of 10 but for the 2nd option it is possible that the chick was entrapped. I would take time to know her and read the personality (and remember that women are master manipulators). If she gives red flags such as excessive shit testing, extreme bitchy behavior, extreme flamingos (and you are doing the right steps), cut her off!

Post: #37

What are extreme flamingos?

Post: #38

As Christian Bateman noted, "Borderline girls typically end up with two types of men: needy tools (who they destroy) and guys with real Dark Triad traits who truly don’t give a shit." Something similar could be said about girls who say they've had an abusive ex-lover. (A.V. Yader also wrote a very excellent article on this topic.)

There are two possibilities here. One is that this is a girl who gets turned on bad boys, either because of their novelty value (maybe she grew up in a sheltered suburban home, and then was surrounded with supplicating nice guys once she became a young woman), or because her father was abusive and she's looking for the same kind of dynamic in a boyfriend because it's what she's used to and has learned how to deal with. I.e., her father used to never give her attention unless she misbehaved, and then he would beat her and then feel guilty about it and shower her with affection; so now she's going to find a guy who acts the same way. She's used to getting attention from guys by misbehaving; she's not used to getting attention by being good, so a normal relationship won't feel right to her.

She may even feel that she doesn't deserve a good guy, and therefore lose respect for any guy who treats her well. She may say she just wants a man who will respect her, but what women say they want, and what they actually respond favorably to, are two different things.

Chances are, she's been damaged by her past, so however nice you are to her, she's always going to have trust issues and be reluctant to invest fully in the relationship. It could also be that even if she does trust you, she'll find you boringly predictable compared to those bad boys she fucked, and crave the excitement and drama she had when she was with them. (After all, she's already seeking attention by telling the story of how that bad boy treated her; but what happens when she settles down with a nice guy? How is she going to be the center of attention when she's no longer being mistreated?)

Chances are, even though she may have decided a relationship with that guy wasn't going to work (or maybe she got dumped by him), she still loves him. Why else would she still be talking about him so much? She's not over him yet, and probably never will be. She already pair-bonded, and is now alpha widowed. There's no more pair-bonding ability left over for you, unfortunately; she already gave it to someone else.

The other possibility (and arguably the more dangerous possibility) is that she was never actually abused, but rather, she made it all up in her head. Her ex was a nice guy but because of her own neuroses, she got insecure and became convinced he was an abuser, as a way of shifting the blame for her inability to remain in the relationship. She will end up making a similar accusation against you, if you get involved with her. Women, especially mentally unstable women, are often capable of psychotic dissociation, which occurs at a subconscious level, when the truth would be too painful for them to accept, or when they need to tell a lie convincingly by believing the lie themselves.

My first wife used to talk constantly about her allegedly abusive ex, against whom she had obtained a restraining order. After she left me (and filed a police report and took out a restraining order against me), I found her journal, which had some entries from after we started talking, but before we got together. She wrote that I reminded her of this guy (the abusive ex), and that maybe that was why she liked me so much.

I started getting more and more intrigued, and sought out the ex and reached out to him. I also researched the restraining order case (and the criminal case in which she had gotten him locked up in jail), in which she had accused him of taking a knife and cutting her open and drinking her blood. It turned out that in court, she had admitted that they never had had sex, and that he had denied ever actually being intimately involved with her; rather, he described her as a close friend whom he would have to reluctantly give up because of the behavior that her paranoid delusions drove her to. She also had admitted that she sometimes heard voices and that some of the hundreds of slash marks on her arms were from self-inflicted wounds.

Anyway, he and I swapped stories, and it turned out that he was an offbeat character like myself, an independent thinker who had similar ambitions of changing the world, and also a bit of a narcissist. So, she liked hanging out with fellow outcasts, but would eventually turn on them, and then use their outcast status to make easy prey of them when it came time to use the system against them. She ended up killing herself, so ultimately, everyone who had invested in her ended up with just memories (and in some cases, court records) to show for it. Bottom line is, these chicks are not only damaged, but they can inflict a lot of severe pain on you too (if you get emotionally attached to them, as they are often able to get naive nice guys to do, through their skill at mirroring others' interests and beliefs), and they can do permanent damage to your reputation with their abuse allegations as well.

And for what? So you can hit some pussy that numerous bad boys already hit before you got there, and will probably continuing hitting while you're in a relationship with her, and afterward? It's really not worth it. On the other hand, the more deeply you get involved emotionally, the more you'll just get hurt in the end.

Post: #39

(12-31-2016 09:01 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  I thought it was a linear scale!
As in a 10 is just the top 10%
This is a topic that needs to be clarified!!!

Platonic perfection can't be achieved in the real world. Either 10 represents 100% (perfection) or it represents a grade of A (90-100) in which 100 is statistically impossible.

This is why contests exist, because there is a deep desire to try to define the best, of which there can only be one. If there's more than one then by definition it's not perfection.

Post: #40

(01-14-2017 01:51 PM)Jean Valjean Wrote:  I started getting more and more intrigued, and sought out the ex and reached out to him. I also researched the restraining order case (and the criminal case in which she had gotten him locked up in jail), in which she had accused him of taking a knife and cutting her open and drinking her blood. It turned out that in court, she had admitted that they never had had sex, and that he had denied ever actually being intimately involved with her; rather, he described her as a close friend whom he would have to reluctantly give up because of the behavior that her paranoid delusions drove her to. She also had admitted that she sometimes heard voices and that some of the hundreds of slash marks on her arms were from self-inflicted wounds.

Anyway, he and I swapped stories, and it turned out that he was an offbeat character like myself, an independent thinker who had similar ambitions of changing the world, and also a bit of a narcissist. So, she liked hanging out with fellow outcasts, but would eventually turn on them, and then use their outcast status to make easy prey of them when it came time to use the system against them. She ended up killing herself, so ultimately, everyone who had invested in her ended up with just memories (and in some cases, court records) to show for it.

Wow. That sounds incredibly intense. You did a great write up and I can actually see how you ended up with a girl like that, based on your description of yourself and her. Not meant as a criticism though, just saying you did a great job of describing how the situation unfolded.

I would like to take a slightly different tact here and argue that most American woman being as promiscuous and attention/sympathy seeking as they are, it is likely they have been in a "toxic" relationship. I heard the average number of sexual partners for women in the US is like 9, and in major cities like NYC it's twice that amount. If you consider about 10% of women are just in a serious relationship with a 3 or 4 guys total, and 20% are so damn ugly/fat that they just don't ever sex with any guy, then the remaining 60-70% have quite a few partners to up that average. So by being with so many guys, and natural draw to assholish dickheads, as that's the only thing that will turn their desensitized, defiminized minds and bodies on, surely some of those guys will treat bad, or disrepect them at some point, or simply things may not go well, and POOF: It's toxic!

So whenever I hear a girl was in a "toxic" relationship, I just discount it. The term is so broad these days that some guy that occasionally ignores her will meet the definition of him being toxic. If I girl has had 7 past boyfriends, how likely is it that all of them ended up with a handshake/smile, let's agree to be friends!

Not likely.

Post: #41

(12-17-2016 07:49 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Also, "I fucked bad boys, so you have to be extra nice to me now" is not something that you want to hear of a woman competing with the millions of other women for the prize that is YOU.

This tactic would never fly if men tried to use it. Imagine if I were to tell a chick, "I just got out of a bad relationship. This toxic girl used me like an ATM machine, and even got me to agree to be her boyfriend, and then dumped me. I don't how to describe it other than to say that when she was done with me, I just felt so ... used. The way she treated me caused me to develop me some major trust issues, so now I feel I can't really let my guard down and give you my heart unless you have a sexual relationship with me for awhile before demanding that I pay for anything or that I publicly declare myself to be your boyfriend.

"Maybe, if you prove yourself to me in that way, over time, I can begin to have faith in true love again, and your patience in helping put back together the pieces of my shattered heart and heal from the trauma I suffered will be rewarded beyond anything you could have thought to hope for.

"I can't predict how long it'll take before I feel comfortable escalating this relationship beyond being fuck-buddies, to being more than that. But don't worry, baby, I know we can get there. Just try to be understanding; I've been through a lot."

Post: #42

That self pumping up shit is very annoying.

Much like that Marilyn Monroe quote about if you can't handle me at my worst, blah blah blah best. How many women in the world could actually be mentioned in the same breath as Marilyn Monroe. The arrogance of it all...

Somehow they think this wish thinking world they live in will actually result in tangible change. A few lines will actually replace dedication, effort, intention and sacrifice.



Idiots.

Post: #43

(01-15-2017 08:28 PM)Robert High Hawk Wrote:  Wow. That sounds incredibly intense. You did a great write up and I can actually see how you ended up with a girl like that, based on your description of yourself and her. Not meant as a criticism though, just saying you did a great job of describing how the situation unfolded.

I would like to take a slightly different tact here and argue that most American woman being as promiscuous and attention/sympathy seeking as they are, it is likely they have been in a "toxic" relationship. I heard the average number of sexual partners for women in the US is like 9, and in major cities like NYC it's twice that amount. If you consider about 10% of women are just in a serious relationship with a 3 or 4 guys total, and 20% are so damn ugly/fat that they just don't ever sex with any guy, then the remaining 60-70% have quite a few partners to up that average. So by being with so many guys, and natural draw to assholish dickheads, as that's the only thing that will turn their desensitized, defiminized minds and bodies on, surely some of those guys will treat bad, or disrepect them at some point, or simply things may not go well, and POOF: It's toxic!

So whenever I hear a girl was in a "toxic" relationship, I just discount it. The term is so broad these days that some guy that occasionally ignores her will meet the definition of him being toxic. If I girl has had 7 past boyfriends, how likely is it that all of them ended up with a handshake/smile, let's agree to be friends!

Not likely.

Well, yeah. And one could blame these women for choosing these men. But in today's society, it's somewhat pointless, because both these women and their feminist supporters will still say that in the end, it's the fault of some man or another, because of the patriarchy.

I'm reminded of how my first wife wrote to her father, in a letter that was found after her death: "Because your actions led me to feel like I was never good enough, because your words made me believe that I'm too weak/stupid/crazy/etc to manage my life, because I have no self-esteem, and because I was raised to believe that abuse was acceptable and that I was either responsible for the abuse I've suffered, or exaggerating it... because of all of that shit, I also now have trouble getting into abusive relationships. I choose men who act towards me the way you do, because it's familiar to me, it's what I know. Like I said, I walked through the doors I went through, I chose to get into these bad, chaotic relationships. But as my father, how dare you lead me to those doors? As my father, it was your responsibility to do better, to teach me to avoid those doors, and if you could not do better, it was your responsibility to get the help, tools, and resources that you needed to be successful, so that I had a chance at a somewhat normal life."

I talked to her dad, and he said the reason why she became so messed up in the head had nothing to do with her upbringing, but rather was because he wasn't able to adopt her until she was already three months old, and therefore she missed out on the opportunity to bond with him during that crucial stage in her life. Maybe if I talked to her biological parents, they in turn would blame someone else for their decisions as well.

No one wants to take responsibility for being the root cause of someone else's death. It reminds me of that scene in Dead Poets Society, where after Neil kills himself, Charlie says, "Think about it. The board of directors, the trustees and Mr. Nolan. Do you think for one moment they're gonna let this thing just blow over? Schools go down because of things like this. They need a scapegoat."

Oh, but a further explanation of how I ended up with her, is because at the time, we were both in a very weak position, and we were going to rescue each other from our respective situations. Whatever I asked of her, she promised me, and I took it all at face value, because I didn't know any better. She promised me: (1) she would marry me, (2) she would never leave me, (3) she would quit prostitution and for the rest of my life always be faithful to me, (4) she would have as many babies as I wanted, (5) she would quit smoking after she got pregnant, (6) she would let me have sex with as many other women as I wanted, and even let me have a harem of other wives living with us in the same home, (7) she would work with me on a programming project to fulfill my dream of building an Internet company that would change the world and make us billionaires, and (8) if the Internet company failed, she would financially support me for the rest of my life. And then there was one other promise, (9), that I can't mention here, which arguably became the bone of contention that broke the relationship.

When I was going to marry my second wife, I thought, "Okay, that first wife flaked out on at least half the stuff she said she would do, but this time I'm going to find a girl who's from the Philippines, rather than the U.S., and who has a better track record at actually achieving stuff in life, and that way I'll know I can trust her." So, once again I attempted to get what I wanted by getting her to promise a bunch of stuff, viz., (1) she would have sex with me whenever I wanted and as often as I wanted, (2) she would do whatever I wanted in bed, (3) she would let me impregnate her whenever I wanted, and as often as I wanted, (4) she would have as many babies as I wanted, (5) she would grow her hair as long as I wanted, (6) she would stay with me forever, (7) she always be faithful to me, and (8) if I wasn't able to support the family, she would support the family by starting a business, or getting a job, or whatever.

The evening before our wedding day, I went over the promises with her one last time and got her to agree to them again, just to be sure there would be no misunderstandings. She agreed to that list of promises again, then we got married, and now several months into the marriage, she's already flaking out on several of those items and saying it's my duty to man up and give her the kind of life she wants (even though she had said she could take full responsibility for that if need be), and also that I need to quit expecting her to do some of the stuff she promised. At the same time, anything that I promised her, she remembers and tries to hold me to.

Now that I've started reading about how desire cannot be negotiated, how women have integrity to their feelings rather than to their word, and how female loyalty is predicated entirely on the belief you are powerful, her behavior makes perfect sense.

So now I find myself, having taken the Red Pill a little later than might have been convenient, behind the eight-ball and having to rush to try to acquire a bunch of resources so that I can get my beta provider game on point. I suppose I'm also supposed to try to run relationship game on her. I try to run dread game on her sometimes by saying, "If you're not going to put out, maybe I'll just bang your younger sister." I'm not sure if it actually has a positive impact on her behavior, though, especially since I'd have to fly to the Philippines to actually follow through with that idea. Also, ultimatums communicate powerlessness and hinder genuine desire, so there's that downside too.

I almost just want to start buying lottery tickets, so that, like Charlie Bucket buying chocolate bars in hopes of getting a golden ticket, I can look forward to every week bringing a possibility that I could win a million dollars and go overseas to buy a mansion in the Philippines and start banging and impregnating every cute, virginal 18-year-old who's looking for a better life and/or a half-white baby, and nexting any girl who gets frigid or starts demanding more than we agreed I was going to give her (i.e. a place in my harem). It seems like the only way that a beta can live an alpha-like lifestyle.

Post: #44

Compatibility happens when both sides are giving and taking in a way that just works without having to have any heavy talks about it. A woman nagging is really telling you she doesn't think you're Mr. Right anymore. A man hauling out a checklist of promises to sign is the same thing. When you've found the right person you'll just click. With that said, nobody's perfect. If one side or the other says they are gonna work on self-improvement (losing weight, improving sex moves, etc...) then it has to be something they want to do anyway, not something just to keep the relationship from breaking up.

It's easier to improve yourself when you have a partner helping you out than it is to do it on your own. Where it gets tricky is when the thing that needs improvement is a verifiable showstopper, like quitting smoking for instance. Someone can want to quit smoking but be ultimately unable to do so. The things that need fixing have to be things that would improve the relationship but are still tolerable if left as-is. Otherwise it's frog-prince and my-fair-lady territory. I speak out of experience.

Post: #45

(01-12-2017 11:36 PM)MidJack Wrote:  What are extreme flamingos?

OP - have an update?

Personal opinion, dump her. Your sperm writes thousands of tiny paychecks. Choose to use it wisely.