Post: #1

Duterte aligns Philippines with China, says U.S. has lost

Quote:Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte announced his "separation" from the United States on Thursday, declaring he had realigned with China as the two agreed to resolve their South China Sea dispute through talks.

Duterte made his comments in Beijing, where he is visiting with at least 200 business people to pave the way for what he calls a new commercial alliance as relations with longtime ally Washington deteriorate.

"In this venue, your honors, in this venue, I announce my separation from the United States," Duterte told Chinese and Philippine business people, to applause, at a forum in the Great Hall of the People attended by Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Gaoli.

"Both in military, not maybe social, but economics also. America has lost."

Duterte's efforts to engage China, months after a tribunal in the Hague ruled that Beijing did not have historic rights to the South China Sea in a case brought by the previous administration in Manila, marks a reversal in foreign policy since the 71-year-old former mayor took office on June 30.

His trade secretary, Ramon Lopez, said $13.5 billion in deals would be signed during the China trip.

"I've realigned myself in your ideological flow and maybe I will also go to Russia to talk to (President Vladimir) Putin and tell him that there are three of us against the world - China, Philippines and Russia. It's the only way," Duterte told his Beijing audience.

Duterte's remarks will prompt fresh concern in the United States, where the Obama administration has seen Manila as an important ally in its "rebalance" of resources to Asia in the face of a rising China.

The administration agreed a deal with Duterte's predecessor granting U.S. forces rotational access to bases in the Philippines and further doubts will be raised about the future of this arrangement.

In Washington, however, the White House stressed the traditional bonds between the United States and the Philippines in response to Duterte's comments and stuck to a U.S. approach of seeking to play down his repeated verbal attacks.

"The U.S.-Philippine alliance is built on a 70-year history, rich people to people ties and a long list of shared security concerns," White House spokesman Eric Schultz told reporters. "We have not received any official requests from Filipino officials to alter any of our many issues where we bilaterally cooperate."

Schultz said the White House does not view Manila's relationship with China as a "zero sum game."

"We believe that it's in our national security interests when our partners and allies in the region have strong relationships with China," he said.

A few hours after Duterte's speech, his top economic policymakers released a statement saying that, while Asian economic integration was "long overdue", that did not mean the Philippines was turning its back on the West.

"We will maintain relations with the West but we desire stronger integration with our neighbors," said Finance Secretary Carlos Dominguez and Economic Planning Secretary Ernesto Pernia in a joint statement. "We share the culture and a better understanding with our region."

China has pulled out all the stops to welcome Duterte, including a marching band complete with baton-twirling band master at his official greeting ceremony outside the Great Hall of the People, which is not extended to most leaders. (Ouch Obama! )

President Xi Jinping, meeting Duterte earlier in the day, called the visit a "milestone" in ties.

Xi told Duterte that China and the Philippines were brothers and they could "appropriately handle disputes", though he did not mention the South China Sea in remarks made in front of reporters.

"I hope we can follow the wishes of the people and use this visit as an opportunity to push China-Philippines relations back on a friendly footing and fully improve things," Xi said.

Following their meeting, during which Duterte said relations with China had entered a new "springtime", Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin said the South China Sea issue was not the sum total of relations.

"The two sides agreed that they will do what they agreed five years ago, that is to pursue bilateral dialogue and consultation in seeking a proper settlement of the South China Sea issue," Liu said.

China claims most of the energy-rich South China Sea through which about $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. Neighbors Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims.

In 2012, China seized the disputed Scarborough Shoal and denied Philippine fishermen access to its fishing grounds.

Liu said the shoal was not mentioned and he did not answer a question about whether Philippine fishermen would be allowed there. He said both countries had agreed on coastguard and fisheries cooperation, but did not give details.

Duterte's tone toward Beijing is in stark contrast to the language he has used against the United States, after being infuriated by U.S. criticism of his bloody war on drugs.

He has called U.S. President Barack Obama a "son of a bitch" and told his to "go to hell", while alluding to severing ties with the old colonial power.

On Wednesday, to the cheers of hundreds of Filipinos in Beijing, Duterte said Philippine foreign policy was veering toward China.

"I will not go to America anymore. We will just be insulted there," Duterte said. "So time to say goodbye my friend."

The same day, about 1,000 anti-U.S. protesters gathered outside the U.S. embassy in Manila calling for the removal of U.S. troops from the southern island of Mindanao.

Duterte's abrupt pivot from Washington to Beijing is unlikely to be universally popular at home, however. On Tuesday an opinion poll showed Filipinos still trust the United States far more than China.

Duterte on Wednesday said the South China Sea arbitration case would "take the back seat" during talks, and that he would wait for the Chinese to bring up the issue rather than doing so himself.

Xi said issues that could not be immediately be resolved should be set aside, according to the Chinese foreign ministry.

China has welcomed the Philippines approaches, even as Duterte has vowed not to surrender any sovereignty to Beijing, which views the South China Sea Hague ruling as null and void.

China has also expressed support for his drug war, which has raised concern in Western capitals about extrajudicial killing.

Philippines' Duterte in China announces split with US:
Filipino president says he prefers "character of an Oriental" after meeting with Chinese leader Xi Jinping:

Quote:Xi called the two countries "neighbours across the sea" with "no reason for hostility or confrontation", the official Xinhua news agency said
(...)
Philippine Trade Secretary Ramon Lopez said his country and China will sign $13.5bn in deals this week. He did not elaborate.

Separately, the Philippines Presidential Communications Office said Xi committed more than $9bn in low-interest loans to the country, with about one third of that coming from private banks. About $15m in loans will go towards drug rehabilitation programmes.
(...)
Al Jazeera's Adrian Brown, reporting from Beijing, said Duterte's visit was "very significant" and a "diplomatic victory" for China, with the Philippines agreeing to resume bilateral talks after years of confrontation.
(...)
"Both sides agreed that the South China Sea issue is not the sum total of the bilateral relationship," Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin told reporters.
The two sides agreed to return to the approach used five years ago of seeking a settlement through bilateral dialogue, Liu said.
(...)
Duterte was quoted by the Manila-based website Rappler calling Americans "loud, sometimes rowdy. Their larynx is not adjusted to civility".
He said he prefers China "because it has the character of an Oriental. It does not go around insulting people".

Addressing the Filipino community in Beijing on Wednesday, the firebrand leader said the Philippines had gained little from its long alliance with the US, its former colonial ruler.

"Your stay in my country was for your own benefit. So time to say goodbye, my friend," he said, as if addressing the US.
He also repeated his denunciation of Obama as a "son of a whore".

‘Time to say goodbye to US,’ Philippines’ Duterte proclaims on historic China visit

Quote:Duterte spoke to the press in Beijing on Wednesday, on the eve of talks with Xi. There was scant information about what was to come on Thursday, but Duterte’s conference coincided with talk of unprecedented agreements being written up – particularly the granting to the Philippines the use of Scarborough Shoal territories – a disputed resource-rich area in the South China Sea.
(...)
“Your stay in my country was for your own benefit. So time to say goodbye, my friend,” Duterte said, as members of the Filipino expat community in Beijing listened in the audience. He was of course referring to the military presence enjoyed by Washington at a number of Filipino bases – something he’s been particularly vocal against since September.

“No more American interference. No more American exercises. What for?” he told the audience.

“I will not go to America anymore. I will just be insulted there,” he added, before doing something no political analyst thought a world leader would ever do once, let alone twice: calling US President Barack Obama a “son of a whore” again.

US-Philippines relations have been in a death spiral ever since the Obama administration started voicing concern over Duterte’s tactics in dealing with drug crime. Manila didn’t like Washington’s stance one bit, and Duterte issued a series of fiery remarks warning Obama to stay out of it and stop dictating Philippines policy.

He’s been touting the economic and political benefits of a relationship with China ever since.

“What kept us from China was not our own making. I will charter a new course,” the Philippine leader said as quoted by the PhilStar.
(...)
“I will not ask but if they offer and if they’ll ask me, you need this aid? Of course, we are very poor,” Duterte confirmed. “You need this railway? Yes sir. And if you can give us a soft loan, give us something like 20 years to pay.”

Great job, Obama.
Perhaps Barry should have spent less time bashing The Donald and campaigning for Crooked Hillary, and more on maintaining positive relations with US allies.

The Chinese style of "No questions asked, here, have some money" diplomacy is successful yet again.
China provides cash and builds infrastructure for you, the West just keeps pestering you about those "human rights" and acts holier-than-thou.
Tough choice.

Post: #2

.... Stupid.

These idiots keep thinking that America is all-powerful and we can do whatever we want, with no consequences whatsoever.

What did we gain by supporting drug dealers in a country that isn't our own? NOTHING. I'm fine with using our international authority to advance our interests. But why do we meddle in stupid shit that's none of our business?

Post: #3

Some very impressive shit lording by Duterte. Only Trump could fix this.

Post: #4

Shoutout to obama!

Post: #5

Several times a year the major ships of the US Seventh Fleet (based in Japan) make extended port calls in the Philippines. If Duterte tells the US Navy to take a hike, I wonder if we'll start seeing port calls from Chinese and Russian navy ships to Manila?

Post: #6

Losing Philippines in SEA is a big loss for US. And this is without any real reason.

Russian news are pretty happy about this.
https://ria.ru/analytics/20161019/1479556429.html

They call Duderte a Filipino Trump

Post: #7

Obama is such a joke.

Post: #8

I've said a lot of positive things about Duterte on this forum and even defended previous comments about Obama/the US, but his foreign policy has exposed him as a total idiot. I had a disagreement with Sp5 about this issue a couple months back, but the more time goes on the more his inadequacy in that arena becomes apparent.

He's not backing China because it's the right move, he's backing them because he's a communist [sympathizer], pro-Islam, anti-American hypocrite. He claims he has similarities with Putin, but he's not nearly the cunning geopolitical mind Vlad is.

By his own admission, China is the main one pumping drugs into the Philippines, meanwhile they're strong arming PH out of their own territories. Not to mention the Chinese's business practices in the country.

But he publicly blames basically every problem the country has on the US.

Somehow America has caused the economic problems in the Philippines -- yet South Korea's economy exploded following the Korean War (a war fought against who else but China and the Soviet Union). Weird.

Which country's has China benefited economically? There are 300+ million Chinese living in extreme poverty, for god's sake. They exploit their own citizens, yet suddenly they're some kind of beneficent merchant nation spreading wealth around the world.

America also supposedly caused the Muslim Insurgency -- yet Jolo/Sulu was one of the biggest pirate and slaving ports in the region for hundreds of years before the US even step foot there. The Moros took and sold tens of thousands of Filipinos as slaves during that period (most Filipinos don't know this, by the way, even though it's well-recorded).

Who ended Muslim slavery in the Philippines? The US.

The guy is a walking contradiction at this point. He claims he doesn't want to be a "beggar", yet he's giving China territory (of military and economic significance) just for some loans.

Post: #9

The dude sold out, he's acting as if the Chinese are his friends. But will the Chinese give Duerte back the land they stole? Nah. He's too dumb to realize that he's just a cuck who is trading one master for another master. I wonder how much he got paid.

Post: #10

Something seems off, this guy comes out of the woodwork

- Just as a gold-backed currency/SDR has been championed at the G2O talks in Hangzhou
- Just as the US has lifted trade ban with Vietnam
- Just as the US economy has been on a downturn
- Just as the BRICS alliance are gaining prominence

We'll see what happens.

Post: #11

(10-20-2016 02:24 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  The dude sold out, he's acting as if the Chinese are his friends. But will the Chinese give Duerte back the land they stole? Nah. He's too dumb to realize that he's just a cuck who is trading one master for another master. I wonder how much he got paid.

Perhaps he traded the islands to China in return for a promise to crack down on the flow of Chinese drugs into the PI?

Post: #12

If some small country thinks China will respect its sovereign right out at sea it will come to know the harsh truth soon enough.

Post: #13

(10-20-2016 02:26 PM)Il Bersagliere Wrote:  Something seems off, this guy comes out of the woodwork

- Just as a gold-backed currency/SDR has been championed at the G2O talks in Hangzhou
- Just as the US has lifted trade ban with Vietnam
- Just as the US economy has been on a downturn
- Just as the BRICS alliance are gaining prominence

We'll see what happens.

Is there going to be a BRICSP? Or BRICSPh?

FRICS-B sounds the coolest.

Post: #14

(10-20-2016 02:12 PM)Vinny Wrote:  They call Duderte a Filipino Trump

I can see why some may say this because they can both be entertaining, but Duterte is no Trump.

Post: #15

(10-20-2016 02:58 PM)Vinny Wrote:  Is there going to be a BRICSP? Or BRICSPh?

FRICS-B sounds the coolest.

Er, no. CRISP-B.

Post: #16

Even if Duterte is a moron, the bottom line is that Obama fucked up our alliance with the only English speaking country in Asia because he couldn't keep his bullshit sanctimony to himself. Obama just HAD to spread his hypocrisy, and now we've lost an important ally to our biggest rival, China.

What a JOKE Obama has proven himself to be, we've lost standing with EVERY SINGLE country in the world. A foreign policy disaster on every level. Can you believe there are Hillary supporters out there who believe Obama has done good on the world stage?

Next up, Australia?

Post: #17

(10-20-2016 02:54 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  If some small country thinks China will respect its sovereign right out at sea it will come to know the harsh truth soon enough.

Speaking of which, this move doesn't just signify the Philippines turning its back on the US, but Japan and most of ASEAN as well. Countries like Japan and Indonesia were just promising PH their support not even a month ago.

Duterte basically sold out all of his allies in the region just to side with their mutual enemy and spite the US.

Ironically that guarantees this won't be much of a blow to the US, since I'm sure one of the other ASEAN nations would be happy to establish closer military relations with us.

Post: #18

(10-20-2016 03:54 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Even if Duterte is a moron, the bottom line is that Obama fucked up our alliance with the only English speaking country in Asia because he couldn't keep his bullshit sanctimony to himself. Obama just HAD to spread his hypocrisy, and now we've lost an important ally to our biggest rival, China.

What a JOKE Obama has proven himself to be, we've lost standing with EVERY SINGLE country in the world. A foreign policy disaster on every level. Can you believe there are Hillary supporters out there who believe Obama has done good on the world stage?

Next up, Australia?

Japan has great relations with Duterte, even going back to his time as mayor, and just promised to provide ships to strengthen the Philippines' navy.

This move is just as much a slap in their face as ours, as well as the rest of ASEAN who have territorial disputes with China. He basically switched sides in the final hour and left all of his regional allies hanging.

None of this has much to do with what Obama said. Obama is a clown, but as I mentioned, Duterte has been blaming everything he can on the US for the past couple months. He essentially wants the US to pull its military out of the country, while also fighting a war against China over PH islands, all while providing billions of aid without any thought of our own interests.

It's the classic anti-West scapegoating of many a former communist dictator. Not a coincidence that he sees Red China as a beacon of all that's good and fair in the world.

Post: #19

(10-20-2016 04:05 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

(10-20-2016 03:54 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Even if Duterte is a moron, the bottom line is that Obama fucked up our alliance with the only English speaking country in Asia because he couldn't keep his bullshit sanctimony to himself. Obama just HAD to spread his hypocrisy, and now we've lost an important ally to our biggest rival, China.

What a JOKE Obama has proven himself to be, we've lost standing with EVERY SINGLE country in the world. A foreign policy disaster on every level. Can you believe there are Hillary supporters out there who believe Obama has done good on the world stage?

Next up, Australia?

Japan has great relations with Duterte, even going back to his time as mayor, and just promised to provide ships to strengthen the Philippines' navy.

This move is just as much a slap in their face as ours, as well as the rest of ASEAN who have territorial disputes with China. He basically switched sides in the final hour and left all of his regional allies hanging.

None of this has much to do with what Obama said. Obama is a clown, but as I mentioned, Duterte has been blaming everything he can on the US for the past couple months. He essentially wants the US to pull its military out of the country, while also fighting a war against China over PH islands, all while providing billions of aid without any thought of our own interests.

It's the classic anti-West scapegoating of many a former communist dictator. Not a coincidence that he sees Red China as a beacon of all that's good and fair in the world.

Sorry gotta agree with Samseau. America used to influence other countries with our culture by getting into them economically and selling our products (as well as encouraging consumerism).

Now we act like we are better than others and use insulting and feminist shaming language in order to embarrass them on the world stage.

That is not how you win friends and influence others. Obama should read Carnegie's book again.

This is Obama's fault. His effeminate mannerisms and feminist driven logic has talked us out of any last semblance of control in Asia.

I wouldn't be shocked if historians 20-30 years later zero in on this being his biggest mistake of his presidency, and not something like his stupid healthcare plan or his corruption with Hillary. China has now effectively used what we call "Soft Power" in foreign policy study, to minimize or resolve the South China Sea conflicts and other issues they had with their neighbors.

Now all they have to do is fix Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia and work out some deals with them and it will be a wrap. The loudest complainer is now happy.

On another note, the Chinese are just too smart these days. They "wasted" money in Africa building high speed bullet trains and infrastructure. Now they can sell it in every South-East Asian country like a cookie cutter solution, all because they have lots of practice now. Talk about thinking ahead!

Post: #20

Outside the US Embassy in Manila yesterday

Post: #21

(10-20-2016 04:05 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

(10-20-2016 03:54 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Even if Duterte is a moron, the bottom line is that Obama fucked up our alliance with the only English speaking country in Asia because he couldn't keep his bullshit sanctimony to himself. Obama just HAD to spread his hypocrisy, and now we've lost an important ally to our biggest rival, China.

What a JOKE Obama has proven himself to be, we've lost standing with EVERY SINGLE country in the world. A foreign policy disaster on every level. Can you believe there are Hillary supporters out there who believe Obama has done good on the world stage?

Next up, Australia?

Japan has great relations with Duterte, even going back to his time as mayor, and just promised to provide ships to strengthen the Philippines' navy.

This move is just as much a slap in their face as ours, as well as the rest of ASEAN who have territorial disputes with China. He basically switched sides in the final hour and left all of his regional allies hanging.

None of this has much to do with what Obama said. Obama is a clown, but as I mentioned, Duterte has been blaming everything he can on the US for the past couple months. He essentially wants the US to pull its military out of the country, while also fighting a war against China over PH islands, all while providing billions of aid without any thought of our own interests.

It's the classic anti-West scapegoating of many a former communist dictator. Not a coincidence that he sees Red China as a beacon of all that's good and fair in the world.

You basically describe him as Hugo Chavez?

I don't deny, he does seem very much like him superficially in rethoric and anti-colonial mindset. If he is a communist then that is not good.

On the other hand, the Phils are a complete mess of oligarchs owning the entire country and doing nothing to improve conditions.

I suppose he might actually be a Hugo Chavez character.

Post: #22

I'm shocked Trump hasn't tweeted this out already.

Post: #23

I don't even know if Trump can turn this around given the tremendous economic leverage China has over its neighbors and its growing influence. This is the trend for SE and Central Asia - welcome to the Chinese centric world order.

With 4x our population and a non-PC and relatively smart population, the only thing slowing them down is population aging, which we're dealing with in the West as well.

Post: #24

(10-20-2016 05:02 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Now all they have to do is fix Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia and work out some deals with them and it will be a wrap. The loudest complainer is now happy.

I can confirm that Thailand and Laos have already been on the side of China for a long time now. China has accelerated building and investing in Laos since at least 2006. A lot of the newest infrastructure in Vientiane comes from Chinese investment.

I'd say the same for Cambodia but Hun Sen is pretty much a whore. He'd turn a trick for any nation who shows up with enough money regardless of nationality. The U.S. just hasn't offered up enough yet.

Thailand's stance is more neutral for practical purposes but behind the scenes they definitely ally up with China a lot. One of the royal princesses makes pretty frequent trips there. The heads of state interact very frequently on political and economic matters too. China is working on a huge high speed rail project that will go from southern China, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia and up to Singapore? Thailand is a big part of that. When China says they will build something they mean it too and it won't get gridlocked in decades of bureaucratic stroke offs, spotted owl hearings, and slush fund campaign donations like in America either. It will happen if the other nations all greenlight it.

The only thing Thailand doesn't really have is a serious military relationship with China on paper.

I think this move is unwise for Duterte and the Philippines. From a pragmatic and real politik point of view he would be much better off playing both sides like India and Vietnam does all the time. If you notice something the countries who have closest diplomatic relations with China share a land border with no natural impediments. There's pragmatic reasons behind that. Vietnam has a big jungle buffer and India has the himalayas as a natural border so they can play both sides. Philippines has a natural ocean barrier. Philippines is not thinking this through clear enough they don't actually need to throw in with China like that.

The U.S. does still support the Philippines in many things and and it's not good to burn long standing bridges like that. Calling Duterte an outright communist and explaining his sympathies with China along those political lines is a bit far fetched though since China itself isn't even Communist at all anymore. The CCP is filled to the brim with real politik types and ultra pragmatic technocrats. They are hard core realists. Old school Brzezinski would probably feel right at home sitting in the middle of that bunch.

I want to see what happens further down the road with this first..

Post: #25

Obama ruined Pussy Paradise

Fag