Post: #26

(09-30-2016 06:29 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 02:51 AM)Enigma Wrote:  Coincidentally, our favorite globalist shorted Deutsche Bank during Brexit.

Soros? He does have a mind for currencies.

Edit
It has got to the point where every time George Soros' name comes up, I just think "hurry up and die"

None other.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-deutsc...SKCN0ZE20O

Quote:Billionaire investor George Soros took out a bet of more than 100 million euros ($111 million) that Deutsche Bank (DBKGn.DE) shares would fall at the time of Britain's vote to quit the European Union, according to a regulatory filing.

Soros, who is renowned for successfully betting against the pound in 1992, had a "short" position of 0.51 percent or about 7 million Deutsche Bank shares on June 24, the filing shows. There was no record of such a position in the days before.

Post: #27

Ive dumped a good fraction of my savings into Bitcoin in anticipation of oncoming Deutsche Bank Crisis, I have no idea how it will play out in reality. But I'm looking hopeful at the scenario where people look to cryptocurrency so as to avoid any measures the banks put up to start covering their asses.

One of the things that has been talked about for awhile is negative interest rates on savings, so obviously dumping your savings into physical assets (gold/silver) or cryptocurrency would be a good way to avoid this.

The reason why I think bitcoin will take preference in this cycle is because you can actually use it to buy things, gold is useless when it comes to physical purchase power, you would be a moron to trade a gold coin for a couple of cans of food. Increased demand on bitcoin will raise its value, also if the dollar takes a hit, natrually bitcoins value will also rise comparatively (i think), so it could also be a good pay off long term. So that is generally my train of thought.

Post: #28

(09-30-2016 11:59 AM)NewMeta Wrote:  Ive dumped a good fraction of my savings into Bitcoin in anticipation of oncoming Deutsche Bank Crisis, I have no idea how it will play out in reality. But I'm looking hopeful at the scenario where people look to cryptocurrency so as to avoid any measures the banks put up to start covering their asses.

One of the things that has been talked about for awhile is negative interest rates on savings, so obviously dumping your savings into physical assets (gold/silver) or cryptocurrency would be a good way to avoid this.

The reason why I think bitcoin will take preference in this cycle is because you can actually use it to buy things, gold is useless when it comes to physical purchase power, you would be a moron to trade a gold coin for a couple of cans of food. Increased demand on bitcoin will raise its value, also if the dollar takes a hit, natrually bitcoins value will also rise comparatively (i think), so it could also be a good pay off long term. So that is generally my train of thought.

You'd be better off opening a US bank account and keeping your money in USD.

You don't have to worry about governments deciding to kill all exchanges and making the convertibility of your coins disappear.

I'm tempted to enter into some short trades right now. Things seem to be lining up in a similar way to Lehman in the eurozone.

Post: #29

(09-30-2016 12:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 11:59 AM)NewMeta Wrote:  Ive dumped a good fraction of my savings into Bitcoin in anticipation of oncoming Deutsche Bank Crisis, I have no idea how it will play out in reality. But I'm looking hopeful at the scenario where people look to cryptocurrency so as to avoid any measures the banks put up to start covering their asses.

One of the things that has been talked about for awhile is negative interest rates on savings, so obviously dumping your savings into physical assets (gold/silver) or cryptocurrency would be a good way to avoid this.

The reason why I think bitcoin will take preference in this cycle is because you can actually use it to buy things, gold is useless when it comes to physical purchase power, you would be a moron to trade a gold coin for a couple of cans of food. Increased demand on bitcoin will raise its value, also if the dollar takes a hit, natrually bitcoins value will also rise comparatively (i think), so it could also be a good pay off long term. So that is generally my train of thought.

You'd be better off opening a US bank account and keeping your money in USD.

You don't have to worry about governments deciding to kill all exchanges and making the convertibility of your coins disappear.

This is terrible advice.

First of all, you don't have to keep your coins stored in an exchange or with a third party. There are all sorts of bitcoin wallets available, including cold/offline wallets for secure long-term storage.

And second, do you have any reason or evidence to back up your claim regarding government shutting down bitcoin/crypto markets?

While I'm certainly not one to put my trust in the government (one of the reasons I own bitcoin, after all), giving out financial advice based solely on fear-mongering is no way to go.

At a time when people are once again anticipating massive bank runs and global financial crises caused almost entirely by the nonstop printing of fiat currencies, saying that you're better off trusting Big Banking to protect said rapidly-inflating fiat currency instead of investing in an anonymous, decentralized, inflation-proof currency (essentially a digital gold) that has more than doubled in value since this time last year, solely because your tinfoil hat started tingling, is simply ludicrous.

Post: #30

(09-30-2016 12:46 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 12:16 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 11:59 AM)NewMeta Wrote:  Ive dumped a good fraction of my savings into Bitcoin in anticipation of oncoming Deutsche Bank Crisis, I have no idea how it will play out in reality. But I'm looking hopeful at the scenario where people look to cryptocurrency so as to avoid any measures the banks put up to start covering their asses.

One of the things that has been talked about for awhile is negative interest rates on savings, so obviously dumping your savings into physical assets (gold/silver) or cryptocurrency would be a good way to avoid this.

The reason why I think bitcoin will take preference in this cycle is because you can actually use it to buy things, gold is useless when it comes to physical purchase power, you would be a moron to trade a gold coin for a couple of cans of food. Increased demand on bitcoin will raise its value, also if the dollar takes a hit, natrually bitcoins value will also rise comparatively (i think), so it could also be a good pay off long term. So that is generally my train of thought.

You'd be better off opening a US bank account and keeping your money in USD.

You don't have to worry about governments deciding to kill all exchanges and making the convertibility of your coins disappear.

This is terrible advice.

First of all, you don't have to keep your coins stored in an exchange or with a third party. There are all sorts of bitcoin wallets available, including cold/offline wallets for secure long-term storage.

And second, do you have any reason or evidence to back up your claim regarding government shutting down bitcoin/crypto markets?

While I'm certainly not one to put my trust in the government (one of the reasons I own bitcoin, after all), giving out financial advice based solely on fear-mongering is no way to go.

At a time when people are once again anticipating massive bank runs and global financial crises caused almost entirely by the nonstop printing of fiat currencies, saying that you're better off trusting Big Banking to protect said rapidly-inflating fiat currency instead of investing in an anonymous, decentralized, inflation-proof currency (essentially a digital gold) that has more than doubled in value since this time last year, solely because your tinfoil hat started tingling, is simply ludicrous.

I don't need any evidence, it's clear as day.

Bitcoin offers private citizens an easy means to shuffle cash around capital controls and outside traditional financial channels. This is a problem for central planners.

We're enjoying easy convertibility right now , but it isn't far fetched to believe that world governments will restrict or severely limit the convertibility of coins into currency in the near future.

They've already done it in mainland Europe with precious metals dealers (albeit with poor results)
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news...-in-europe

It isn't far off to assume cryptocurrencies are being looked at too.

What good will your coins be if you can't convert them into currency to buy food or worse pay taxes if it's impossible to easily convert them?

If you want to protect your wealth do what the real wealthy do: buy precious metals, land, buy things of value that you can hold in your hands. At least you can barter these away and even under the table if need be.

You can't barter electronic bits. You also can't use bitcoins if a government decides you can't convert them to cash.

Edit: Here's a list of countries that have banned bitcoin (obviously with varying levels of success).
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/top-10-c...in-banned/

When things start getting worse (which they will) you can bet that they will be actively chasing down people who use these markets. China in particular I can see putting a clamp down on exchanges of all kinds if their economy starts acting up.

Post: #31

(09-30-2016 01:01 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  I don't need any evidence, it's clear as day.

Bitcoin offers private citizens an easy means to shuffle cash around capital controls and outside traditional financial channels. This is a problem for central planners.

We're enjoying easy convertibility right now , but it isn't far fetched to believe that world governments will restrict or severely limit the convertibility of coins into currency in the near future.

They've already done it in mainland Europe with precious metals dealers (albeit with poor results)
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news...-in-europe

It isn't far off to assume cryptocurrencies are being looked at too.

What good will your coins be if you can't convert them into currency to buy food or worse pay taxes if it's impossible to easily convert them?

If you want to protect your wealth do what the real wealthy do: buy precious metals, land, buy things of value that you can hold in your hands. At least you can barter these away and even under the table if need be.

You can't barter electronic bits. You also can't use bitcoins if a government decides you can't convert them to cash.

Edit: Here's a list of countries that have banned bitcoin (obviously with varying levels of success).
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/top-10-c...in-banned/

When things start getting worse (which they will) you can bet that they will be actively chasing down people who use these markets. China in particular I can see putting a clamp down on exchanges of all kinds if their economy starts acting up.

I agree that the central bankers of the world - if they don't already - will come to view bitcoin as a threat, similar to gold.

I will also agree with your recommendation to buy tangible things as a store of value. Depending on where you live, I'd put guns and ammo pretty high on that list as well.

I suppose that living in the U.S. (which has thus far been rather favorable to the development of bitcoin) combined with my expectation of a Trump presidency has me fairly confident that bitcoin won't be attacked here any time soon. Trump has purposefully distanced himself from Wall Street, and we just saw during Monday's debate that he is no fan of the Fed. I don't see a Trump administration posing much of a threat to bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies.

(If Hillary wins, that's a different story - I'd probably start selling some of the coins and converting those profits into gold.)

So if I'm right, and the bitcoin sphere (at least here in the U.S.) remains a safe investment, then my argument stands: you're much better off investing in a digital gold than keeping your wealth in fiat dollars in a bank.

Post: #32

(09-30-2016 01:32 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 01:01 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  I don't need any evidence, it's clear as day.

Bitcoin offers private citizens an easy means to shuffle cash around capital controls and outside traditional financial channels. This is a problem for central planners.

We're enjoying easy convertibility right now , but it isn't far fetched to believe that world governments will restrict or severely limit the convertibility of coins into currency in the near future.

They've already done it in mainland Europe with precious metals dealers (albeit with poor results)
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news...-in-europe

It isn't far off to assume cryptocurrencies are being looked at too.

What good will your coins be if you can't convert them into currency to buy food or worse pay taxes if it's impossible to easily convert them?

If you want to protect your wealth do what the real wealthy do: buy precious metals, land, buy things of value that you can hold in your hands. At least you can barter these away and even under the table if need be.

You can't barter electronic bits. You also can't use bitcoins if a government decides you can't convert them to cash.

Edit: Here's a list of countries that have banned bitcoin (obviously with varying levels of success).
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/top-10-c...in-banned/

When things start getting worse (which they will) you can bet that they will be actively chasing down people who use these markets. China in particular I can see putting a clamp down on exchanges of all kinds if their economy starts acting up.

I agree that the central bankers of the world - if they don't already - will come to view bitcoin as a threat, similar to gold.

I will also agree with your recommendation to buy tangible things as a store of value. Depending on where you live, I'd put guns and ammo pretty high on that list as well.

I suppose that living in the U.S. (which has thus far been rather favorable to the development of bitcoin) combined with my expectation of a Trump presidency has me fairly confident that bitcoin won't be attacked here any time soon. Trump has purposefully distanced himself from Wall Street, and we just saw during Monday's debate that he is no fan of the Fed. I don't see a Trump administration posing much of a threat to bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies.

(If Hillary wins, that's a different story - I'd probably start selling some of the coins and converting those profits into gold.)

So if I'm right, and the bitcoin sphere (at least here in the U.S.) remains a safe investment, then my argument stands: you're much better off investing in a digital gold than keeping your wealth in fiat dollars in a bank.

Agree with everything here 100%. I literally have two plans in line to ride the wave.

I'm hoping Trump will clean the house finally. We're not out of the woods yet.

Post: #33

Call me skeptical but I don't see how Bitcoins are safer than USD.

Post: #34

Bitcoins are a good investment, and if they were made "illegal" there are ways around that with online anonymity and secure browsers... but remember Gold was once illegal in the US as well. Any of these alternative currencies could be attacked, so it's good to diversify. You would be wise to hold physical cash in a home safe, along with gold coins/bars, and some bitcoins in a secure offline USB drive.

The best thing you can buy before a big crash would be.... non-perishable food!

If you've got extra cash go buy large quantities of things you consume, 100s of gallons of water, canned tuna, beans, rice, chili, nuts, oatmeal, soup, dried fruits or veggies, toilet paper, soap etc, and anything that you consume regularly that stays good for years. Best case scenario, you save some money from inflation of rising food costs. Worst case scenario, you feed yourself and your family for a year or more.

An even better investment, start a garden if you have the land, and learn to farm and grow your own food. You could even raise your own chickens, pigs and goats if you have the time and resources.

And then stockpile guns & AMMO to secure yourself. Less guns, more ammo.

Post: #35

(09-30-2016 02:31 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  Call me skeptical but I don't see how Bitcoins are safer than USD.

It is a hell of a long story to explain this to you if you dont have economic knowledge of the petro dollar or the status of the dollar as the world reserve currency.

Basically if you do enough research there is a lot of evidence to suggest the USD's status as the worlds reserve currency and the currency by which oil should be priced (aka the petro dollar) is going to be superseded by another currency, which we can only speculate which it will be (lots of interesting articles on this).

The Deutsche Bank crisis is going to drag other US banks under with it, and this could be the starting point of moving away from the US dollar, when (and it is WHEN not IF at this point) it happens, the dollar will plummet in value, the FED will stop printing money and the US will have to deal with the 20 trillion or w.e it is in debt they owe.

Post: #36

Money in banks is safe. With the amount of oversight and regulation today, you'll know long before a bank is at risk unless you pay zero attention. DB's problems have been apparent for years. Pick a different bank.

Post: #37

(09-30-2016 03:06 PM)NewMeta Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 02:31 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  Call me skeptical but I don't see how Bitcoins are safer than USD.

It is a hell of a long story to explain this to you if you dont have economic knowledge of the petro dollar or the status of the dollar as the world reserve currency.

Basically if you do enough research there is a lot of evidence to suggest the USD's status as the worlds reserve currency and the currency by which oil should be priced (aka the petro dollar) is going to be superseded by another currency, which we can only speculate which it will be (lots of interesting articles on this).

The Deutsche Bank crisis is going to drag other US banks under with it, and this could be the starting point of moving away from the US dollar, when (and it is WHEN not IF at this point) it happens, the dollar will plummet in value, the FED will stop printing money and the US will have to deal with the 20 trillion or w.e it is in debt they owe.

Stop watching conspiracy videos on youtube. The USD has the US military & economy behind it, those bit coins you have? They could be rendered worthless overnight if the central bankers wanted it to be.

Collecting gold and silver will line you up as a target. The government knows who has what and you won't keep it if they want it.

Bitcoin is not safer than USD amd anyone who believes that has been lied to as far as I am concerned. They claimed pensions were safe, your bank accounts are safe and many other things, Didn't turn out so well for many. If the USD were to fail the world follows and bitcoins won't be worth anything.

Post: #38

(09-30-2016 06:31 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 03:06 PM)NewMeta Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 02:31 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  Call me skeptical but I don't see how Bitcoins are safer than USD.

It is a hell of a long story to explain this to you if you dont have economic knowledge of the petro dollar or the status of the dollar as the world reserve currency.

Basically if you do enough research there is a lot of evidence to suggest the USD's status as the worlds reserve currency and the currency by which oil should be priced (aka the petro dollar) is going to be superseded by another currency, which we can only speculate which it will be (lots of interesting articles on this).

The Deutsche Bank crisis is going to drag other US banks under with it, and this could be the starting point of moving away from the US dollar, when (and it is WHEN not IF at this point) it happens, the dollar will plummet in value, the FED will stop printing money and the US will have to deal with the 20 trillion or w.e it is in debt they owe.

Stop watching conspiracy videos on youtube. The USD has the US military & economy behind it, those bit coins you have? They could be rendered worthless overnight if the central bankers wanted it to be.

Collecting gold and silver will line you up as a target. The government knows who has what and you won't keep it if they want it.

Bitcoin is not safer than USD amd anyone who believes that has been lied to as far as I am concerned. They claimed pensions were safe, your bank accounts are safe and many other things, Didn't turn out so well for many. If the USD were to fail the world follows and bitcoins won't be worth anything.

Conspiracy...videos? guess I know not to listen to you when it comes to economics and investments haha. No offence dude, im just being real here, the US has 20 trillion is debt behind it, what economy are we talking about? I was talking economics of the dollar and what gives it its value, this isn't conspiracy its fact, the status as world reserve currency always changes, it used to be GBP for about 100 years and now its the dollar, and soon it wont be.

I know how secure bitcoin is, im a network security engineer I know the kind of architecture its built on, and even if by trade I wasn't its quite easy to learn the basics and understand what makes bitcoin so secure. Watch some tutorials online, most are very user friendly. Central banks cant touch it.

Is it a safe investment? Now that, is indeed a matter of opinion, as I said before my investment in it is based on predictions (well educated ones), all I can do is hope it pays off, if not, oh well.

Post: #39

(09-30-2016 07:18 PM)NewMeta Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 06:31 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 03:06 PM)NewMeta Wrote:  

(09-30-2016 02:31 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  Call me skeptical but I don't see how Bitcoins are safer than USD.

It is a hell of a long story to explain this to you if you dont have economic knowledge of the petro dollar or the status of the dollar as the world reserve currency.

Basically if you do enough research there is a lot of evidence to suggest the USD's status as the worlds reserve currency and the currency by which oil should be priced (aka the petro dollar) is going to be superseded by another currency, which we can only speculate which it will be (lots of interesting articles on this).

The Deutsche Bank crisis is going to drag other US banks under with it, and this could be the starting point of moving away from the US dollar, when (and it is WHEN not IF at this point) it happens, the dollar will plummet in value, the FED will stop printing money and the US will have to deal with the 20 trillion or w.e it is in debt they owe.

Stop watching conspiracy videos on youtube. The USD has the US military & economy behind it, those bit coins you have? They could be rendered worthless overnight if the central bankers wanted it to be.

Collecting gold and silver will line you up as a target. The government knows who has what and you won't keep it if they want it.

Bitcoin is not safer than USD amd anyone who believes that has been lied to as far as I am concerned. They claimed pensions were safe, your bank accounts are safe and many other things, Didn't turn out so well for many. If the USD were to fail the world follows and bitcoins won't be worth anything.

Conspiracy...videos? guess I know not to listen to you when it comes to economics and investments haha. No offence dude, im just being real here, the US has 20 trillion is debt behind it, what economy are we talking about? I was talking economics of the dollar and what gives it its value, this isn't conspiracy its fact, the status as world reserve currency always changes, it used to be GBP for about 100 years and now its the dollar, and soon it wont be.

I know how secure bitcoin is, im a network security engineer I know the kind of architecture its built on, and even if by trade I wasn't its quite easy to learn the basics and understand what makes bitcoin so secure. Watch some tutorials online, most are very user friendly. Central banks cant touch it.

Is it a safe investment? Now that, is indeed a matter of opinion, as I said before my investment in it is based on predictions (well educated ones), all I can do is hope it pays off, if not, oh well.

You just went ahead and dismissed my entire post because I'm not an invesment broker or economic genius. If I were I wouldn't be making this post. I'll be too busy preparing for the week ahead like any financial genius would.

In short I hurt your feelings, all the while you went right ahead and underlined why I am skeptical about bitcoin.

Quote:I was talking economics of the dollar and what gives it its value, this isn't conspiracy its fact, the status as world reserve currency always changes, it used to be GBP for about 100 years and now its the dollar, and soon it wont be.

True, the GPB was the force of nature the British Empire made it. Through military might, trade agreements and economic policy we were kings.

Quote:I know how secure bitcoin is, im a network security engineer I know the kind of architecture its built on, and even if by trade I wasn't its quite easy to learn the basics and understand what makes bitcoin

And I am a professional in the property lending sector. A sector worth trillions of GBP. Yet I am powerless to stop market forces in the short term or what the lenders (banks) dictate over the short and long term. All I can do is value something built to modern standards or hundreds of years ago.

If a lender declares they will not lend on a specific building, a steel framed house for example, you cannot get money for it. You might as well burn it to the ground and sell the scrap to China.

The same for Bitcoin. A bank holds the gold, silver, platinum and anything worth of value. thats why its a bank. If they were to turn around and say something is not worth wiping their arse with, that's gospel.

What is bitcoin? Its a new currency used by the smart people of the world to move funds through banking systems. I'm not going to google it like so many would either.

It has no backing except for the good will the banks give it. The banks next week could fold and demand bail-ins and they'd get it. Yours, mine and everyone else's money will be used to prop them up. You think you'd stop them taking what is yours?

Where is your army?
What can you do to threaten banks?
What can they do to you?

Computers rely on tech, infrastructure and knowledge. Whats to say that infrastructure will survive intact?

Post: #40

lol jesus, my feelings? i wonder if you are interpreting this all wrong, ok i see no point in continuing this, not gonna turn this discussion into an argument over bitcoin

Post: #41

Foolsgold is right on this.

There's a good saying in times like these.

If you can't stand in front of it with a gun then you don't really own it.

A major EMP attack would certainly put digital currency into perspective.

What I don't agree with is that gold and silver can't be bought away from prying eyes in reasonably small quantities at least. There is quite a thriving backwoods market in the US for pre-'64 coins that are 90% silver.

p.s. gold is a poor currency when it comes to small transactions. If you're literally planning on hoarding hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of precious metals or you intend to be able to smuggle a lesser amount then gold is going to be a necessity but in most cases silver is a far better choice.

Post: #42

Deutsche Bank CEO Jon Cryan failed to reach a deal with the DOJ last Friday to lower the $14 billion fine against Deutsche Bank:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...-bild-says

Quote:Deutsche Bank AG Chief Executive Officer John Cryan failed to reach an agreement with the U.S. Justice Department to resolve a years-long investigation into its mortgage-bond dealings during a meeting in Washington Friday, Germany’s Bild newspaper reported.
The meeting was meant to negotiate the multi-billion-dollar settlement the bank will have to pay to resolve alleged misconduct arising from its dealings in residential-mortgage backed securities that led to the 2008 financial crisis, according to a Bild am Sonntag report.
The German lender is still considering seeking damages against Anshu Jain and Josef Ackermann, who are both former CEOs of the bank, the newspaper reported. Bild said the bank froze part of the millions in bonus payments to Jain and other former top managers.
A Deutsche Bank spokeswoman declined to comment to Bild about the outcome of Cryan’s Friday discussion or about clawing back former executives’ compensation. Mark Abueg, a Justice Department spokesman, declined to comment.

Concerns about Deutsche Bank’s ability to pay the $14 billion opening settlement bid from the Justice Department sent the lender’s stock to a record low last month. The bank, which set aside 5.5 billion euros ($6.2 billion) for litigation at the end of June, may face additional penalties to wrap up other outstanding investigations, including one into a money-laundering probe tied to its Russia operations. Analysts at Barclays Plc speculate that could cost the bank as much as 2 billion euros ($2.2 billion).

Cryan, a Briton who speaks fluent German, has sought for the last three weeks to reassure investors that Deutsche Bank can weather the formidable obstacles to its financial health. The bank is holding informal talks with Wall Street firms about options to deal with legal costs, including a stock sale that could raise 5 billion euros ($5.6 billion), people with knowledge of the matter said this week.
Qatar’s royal family is also considering increasing its stake in Deutsche Bank to as much as 25 percent, according to people with knowledge of the matter.
Cryan has said the lender may fail to be profitable this year after posting the first annual loss since 2008 last year. With plans to eliminate thousands of jobs and cut risky assets, he called 2016 a peak restructuring year.

Post: #43

I think the USD is going to be just fine. Flight to quality.