Post: #26

Finding good deals on property is difficult as most are over valued. A real estate correction or even crash is eventually bound to occur. In most major cities, a house cost almost 1 million dollars while wages stagger and are even going down. Real estate prices are being kept artificially high by speculators and foreign investors (china) looking to park their money. How much higher can a house increase over a million? If wages do not rise, Real estate is a gamble right now.

Post: #27

I would agree buying a condo is a great idea. Replacing siding and other house-only bullshit is what cost me a fortune when selling my house. Back when I lived in LA I could have made bank flipping mine if I'd bought it before hurricane Katrina hit.

Post: #28

Thoughts on "rent vs. ownership carrying costs" in NYC:

Scenario a)
Decent one bedroom condo in a prime area of Manhattan, Brooklyn, and even parts of western Queens basically == $1 million.

The rent on said one bedroom would be ~$3500/mo. Large rental demand (students w/ parents paying, foreigners, wealthy locals).

The carrying costs to own said one bedroom would be at least ~$5000+/mo.


Scenario b)
Spacious two bedroom two bathroom condo in non-prime area of Queens == $450,000.

The rent on said two bedroom would be ~$2300/mo. Potential to rent the two bedrooms out separately. Decent rental demand from nearby colleges / hospitals / courts, mostly white-collar H1b Asian and South Asian families, students of modest means.

The carrying costs to own said two bedroom would be ~$2000/mo.

---

Scenario a) would be ideal for most gainfully employed single bachelors, but there's no "out" -- you'd rent your place out at a loss, or sell at a possible loss (little equity, transaction costs, etc.), if you got stuck.

Scenario b) would not be ideal for anyone who wants to be in the thick of the action, but you could immediately break even and possibly profit on renting your place out.


Purchasing for investment only, scenarios like b) are great -- "transitioning" neighborhoods where RENTS rise faster than PURCHASE PRICES.

Here in NYC it's useful to look at the ratio of ONE YEAR OF RENT to PURCHASE PRICE.

Scenario a) has purchase price at 24x a year's rent.

Scenario b) has purchase price at 16x a year's rent.

So the market you're in really plays a part. In NYC it seems drastic. If we want prime real estate, do we wait for a "crash"? Or just get in now at all costs? What happens if you have to bail?

On the other hand, if one rents in the prime area but purchases a few great deals in the scenario b) style as investment properties to rent out, it could be lucrative. But mortgages aren't easy if you intend to operate this way. Unless you make your primary residence your first scenario b) apartment, then slowly build up a portfolio.

Post: #29

Just bought a house myself. I'd say it's a good investment for the following reasons:

1) It's nonliquid, meaning you won't be able to tap into it and waste it, and are unlikely to sell if prices drop (unlike with stocks).
2) You have flexibility in terms of renting the whole house, living in one room renting the others out, living it in yourself if you have the cash flow.

One thing I was concerned of was buying a house that's too expensive / too high of payments including utilities that too much of your monthly budget is spent on housing. Sounds like the way you plan to do it, it won't be much of an issue.

Also I would take the time to look up rents in the area, compare to price of the home, to see what the overall return will be (from appreciatoin + yield) and compare this to other possible investments.

Post: #30

I wish to add that if you do decide to purchase a home, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, let a chick be the co-signer of the Land deed/ House ownership.

You will be amazed at how many Sex&TheCity type chicks are only waiting to hear a man decide to purchase a home, so that they can co-sign the ownership and then screw the man over by using the government to engage in violent force to transfer ownership of the house to the woman.

If you have business partners you can trust, you're better off dealing with them to invest in real estate in the USA/Canada.

If there are Real Estate "stocks", that would be feasible too, as long as the Rate of Return is guaranteed, and as long Bernie Madoff isn't in charge of the Investment. Consult with a financial advisor if you wish to invest in real estate stocks/trust.

Post: #31

Yeah, women are far to fickle. I would never even consider it as an option.

Post: #32

Home ownership is highly valued where I live. Here's the thinking:

1. Owning a home is your ticket to avoiding poverty in old age. You'll always have a place to live.

2. You can bequeath your home to your children when you die, giving them financial solidity.

3. Commuting up to two hours each way on public transportation is worth it, if doing so means you can afford a home. (The only affordable homes are far from work.)

4. Living close to your family (parents, siblings) is more important than being able to take a better job that would involve moving. So being tied down to a geographical area is not a concern.

5. Renting is just throwing your money away.

Curiously, this last point is rarely accompanied by an understanding that the calculation depends on how much the rent is and how much the mortage is (or the opportunity cost of not investing, if paying outright). In other words, it's an emotional argument, borne out of innumeracy.

Post: #33

I've been researching real estate investing everyday for the past 3 or 4 months and am in the process of getting a real estate license. I have no actual experience investing so take what I say with a grain of salt.

That being said, real estate is one of the safest investments you can make, provided you know the pitfalls, and how to analyze properties and numbers. This website should have just about all the info you need: http://www.biggerpockets.com

The line of thinking there is that housing prices fluctuate and are unpredictable while rent prices are generally pretty stable. If you get a property and analyze the numbers properly, your should be making significantly more in rent per month than your mortgage and expenses. All of it is laid out way better on that site I mentioned.

Post: #34

Wow condo seems like a great idea now, I'm researching ones for sale in my area and the mortgage would be around $200 a month plus HOA. Shit at that rate I could afford to buy three condos and rent two them out!

I've got a realtor friend who can get me all the foreclosure listings, maybe get something even cheaper.

Post: #35

I'd be careful with condos. There's a lot that could go wrong.

Some HOA's are on power trips and can really screw you. You will be at their mercy.

I've read about some horror stories with condos online. While it may be a great investment with good cash flow, the HOA can change the dues at the drop of a hat. Or ask for a huge check for a new roof, siding, or some unforeseen circumstance.

You lose a lot of freedom in a condo versus buying a single or multi-family property. I'm not saying never invest in condos, but make sure you do your research on the HOA before committing to anything.

Post: #36

An important thing that significantly influences purchase or rental prices is the current state of local property market. The recovery stage of the property market cycle is the most favourable time to buy a new home as prices have reached their lowest point and are just starting to grow again.