Post: #1

Here are my thoughts on martial arts, toughness and how it all relates to attraction and quality of life.

I've noticed more than a few times over this forum and in various articles that the training of martial arts is considered not only useful but perhaps even quite necessary. I've personally trained in boxing and thai boxing for a short time until a serious injury caused me to take time off and I'm still recovering.
I'd like to emphasize that I'm not trying to dismiss martial arts or people who are very serious about them. I understand that there's nothing like getting to work on your punches, wrestling or what not and to share that experience in a masculine environment. With all that said, the world is full of fascinating things and that's why I'm going to play devil's advocate and address some pro-martial arts arguments or lines of thought here in a deconstructive manner.

While this skill can be helpful, spending several times a week going in and out of a gym can be counterproductive. You may never get into a fair fight and yet will accumulate small injuries training. I'm emphasizing the word "fair fight" because no style will make you grow eyes in your back or survive a fight where the odds are overwhelmingly against you due to weapons, numbers, size difference or environmental restrictions.
My personal belief is that fight training is most useful for traumatized men with hurtful experiences of bullying and intimidation; possibly dating all the way back to childhood or teen years. Combat sports can help these individuals deal with the feelings they've long suppressed and in earning a belt or holding their own in the ring they can feel a sense of accomplishment, which can be taken to symbolize their victory over a past foe. In effect, the person can play out a scenario of pummeling the abuser to a pulp in their head and refute the mockery that the bastard once used to fling at him.
If the guy is already doing fairly well inside his head and has built reasonable amounts of self-confidence succeeding in other pursuits and grown beyond his most vulnerable years, martial arts training may not appear nearly as tempting but rather simply another drop in a sea of attractions.

We rarely get the chance to help ourselves or save someone else's life by beating someone up and having training in psychology, basic people skills, first aid and assistance is far more important. There does indeed exist a major calling for all kinds of traditionally feminine volunteer and community work where a man can make a difference while the chances are that learning martial arts will never make any difference even in the lives of those closest to the practitioner unless he holds a high danger job or teahes self-defense himself, which is highly unlikely.
The fantasy of dishing out a beating to a deserving group of rapugees or thugs is something that will most likely only be lived out in a person's head while nurturing or nursing a harmless person or showing off some dance skills in a club are entirely tenable to pull off.

The big difference here between the usefulness or/and attractiveness of martial arts relative to some other pursuit is that martial arts appeal to the basest and lowest instincts of people and do thus serve as a kind of shortcut to confidence or so it is hoped. If you want to be a great sprinter for example, you need to be young and genetically endowed but the average man can learn to throw a knock out punch in months and if he obsesses about fighting, he can learn to fell the vast majority of people in a few years despite mediocre genetics.
In prehistoric times, a guy with very little going for him could presumably have simply clubbed another competitor over the head in the mating game and if he was not busy doing that, he presumably derived pleasure from the knowledge that he could intimidate a competitor who would be superior to him in many respects.

This mentality is still evident in children, people exhibiting jealous rage and is arguably an important root cause of interracial violence in America and Europe where people find that the only way to drag certain people to their own level is to hurt and injure them until they can no longer function at their god given capacity.
The difference between true savages and cultured ones is that the savages feel a need to live out their fantasy in reality, while most other people are happy "knowing" in their own head that "I could kick his ass" and this is what provides them with consolation when they feel intimidated by the gifts of others; this same mentality is also evident in some masculine women as exhibited in boasting statements like "I could kick most guys' asses". The reason martial arts are so attractive is because we feel that they transcend the gym in a way that tennis or football does not and do thus allow us to force our will on people in a universal setting or to intimidate them into respecting us; ideally in a way similar to a Hollywood movie where tomorrow's consequences do not constitute a reason to worry.
Thusly when a guy says that "I need to work on my ground game" or "I need to work on my boxing" what it does not mean is that he needs to train several days a week to learn those things to survive outdoors but it rather means that he's insecure about himself for one or other reason and he needs to get that training in so he can live out his fantasy in his head anytime he perceives a certain situation to be uncomfortable and emerge victorious in the movie scene that goes on inside his head when a red blooded young male gives him a funny look. A guy with a different outlook on life and a differently formed identity might rather get a black eye once in his life than spend years of his life sweating in the gym every other evening but for some men the feeling of emasculation associated with becoming a victim of violence, even in the absence of permanent injury, is so infuriating that they may actively obsess about such conflict situations and even end up spending a good amount of their spare time doing a thing that they do not truly enjoy and when people say that "men need to do martial arts" it is not overly hyperbolic to suggest that the person making the statement belongs to the subpopulation likely to obsess about such things to the detriment of their mental health. The older guys get the less they worry despite becoming increasingly vulnerable with age as they no longer allow the posturing to get under their skin, which is a skill that young men are capable of possessing as well.

In consequence it is my belief that most well adjusted men do not need to engage in regular martial arts training but having some exposure can be useful for men of small size and particularly men with traumatic experiences of bullying that largely do not go on in adulthood as the former bullies turn from objects of admiration into losers scared of their own shadow and many of the nerds go on to lead succesful lives, albeit with hidden trauma. In some cases the trauma may be related to very specific interpersonal connections and in such cases therapy or the disappearance of any influence on the part of the negative person/people can lead to complete or partial healing.

Post: #2

Nothing else matters if you cannot protect yourself or the ones you love when it counts. Not a damn thing.
Most people think violent crime will never happen to them and then it does. And their whole world shatters and they fall apart. Violent crimes break people so badly some people never truly recover mentally let alone physically.

Most rape victims would go back in time and learn the things they need to in order to prevent themselves being raped.

A lot of what you are saying is based out of insecurity about what you "think" martial arts are. While having no basis within any type of longer term study.
Maybe you were bullied by someone who studied in martial arts and you felt powerless. I dont know...but what i can tell by your post is:

• You've never been in an actual "life or death" situation
• You're limited view of martial arts is probably heavily infulenced by ufc/tv/movies
• Martial arts intimidate you.
• You still have a blue pill mindset expect that the worlds rules don't apply to you.
  

Also for your first post you probably should've posted in this thread and asked some questions.
Plenty of information in there.
TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet

Post: #3

(07-27-2016 08:00 PM)kinjutsu Wrote:  Nothing else matters if you cannot protect yourself or the ones you love when it counts. Not a damn thing.
Most people think violent crime will never happen to them and then it does. And their whole world shatters and they fall apart. Violent crimes break people so badly some people never truly recover mentally let alone physically.

Most rape victims would go back in time and learn the things they need to in order to prevent themselves being raped.

A lot of what you are saying is based out of insecurity about what you "think" martial arts are. While having no basis within any type of longer term study.
Maybe you were bullied by someone who studied in martial arts and you felt powerless. I dont know...but what i can tell by your post is:

• You've never been in an actual "life or death" situation
• You're limited view of martial arts is probably heavily infulenced by ufc/tv/movies
• Martial arts intimidate you.
• You still have a blue pill mindset expect that the worlds rules don't apply to you.
  

Also for your first post you probably should've posted in this thread and asked some questions.
Plenty of information in there.
TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet

Many people think that violent crime won't happen to them and most of them are right. The older and more vulnerable you get, the less chance there is of becoming a victim. This seemingly paradoxical observation is down to the fact that young men are annoyed by one another's antics and allow words and gestures to get under their skin, which in turn results in needless violence in an effort to salvage their ego or impress chicks or both.
In addition to this, the concept of "violent crime" is very encompassing and as I have stated before, you do get roughed up in the gym but you won't necessarily ever get roughed up outside of it. The hours and money you'll spend recovering from a black eye or a sprained wrist caused by a moderate violent confrontation pale in comparison to a life time spent preparing for a situation that never comes.

Instructors need to keep people paranoid and fearful so they can get their money as well as rationalize their hobbies to themselves as being necessary.

If somebody passionately wants to kill you, martial arts will be useless because that person will make sure that the odds are in his favour; that's why you need to avoid scummy people and be financially stable so you can surround yourself with reasonable ones. Martial arts are useful in the rare instance where you're jumped by a random person who has no foreknowledge or history with you, is not armed and where there is ample space and a flat surface to move on. There are many situations where size and strength reign supreme over skill.

People who love competing and just plain love the feeling of hitting the mitts or the mat are well adjusted and I wish more power to them. What I'm skeptical of is the attitude that it behooves all men to do this or that to live up to some ideal of masculinity or even to be safe. More often than not this advice is counterproductive just like the idea that you need to do squats and deadlifts in the gym, although these movements are horrible for your spine but the dudebro shaming language is strong and many more youths will be sacrificed to satisfy these ideals.

Post: #4

(07-27-2016 08:19 PM)SegaSaturn1994 Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 08:00 PM)kinjutsu Wrote:  Nothing else matters if you cannot protect yourself or the ones you love when it counts. Not a damn thing.
Most people think violent crime will never happen to them and then it does. And their whole world shatters and they fall apart. Violent crimes break people so badly some people never truly recover mentally let alone physically.

Most rape victims would go back in time and learn the things they need to in order to prevent themselves being raped.

A lot of what you are saying is based out of insecurity about what you "think" martial arts are. While having no basis within any type of longer term study.
Maybe you were bullied by someone who studied in martial arts and you felt powerless. I dont know...but what i can tell by your post is:

• You've never been in an actual "life or death" situation
• You're limited view of martial arts is probably heavily infulenced by ufc/tv/movies
• Martial arts intimidate you.
• You still have a blue pill mindset expect that the worlds rules don't apply to you.
  

Also for your first post you probably should've posted in this thread and asked some questions.
Plenty of information in there.
TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet

Many people think that violent crime won't happen to them and most of them are right. The older and more vulnerable you get, the less chance there is of becoming a victim. This seemingly paradoxical observation is down to the fact that young men are annoyed by one another's antics and allow words and gestures to get under their skin, which in turn results in needless violence in an effort to salvage their ego or impress chicks or both.
In addition to this, the concept of "violent crime" is very encompassing and as I have stated before, you do get roughed up in the gym but you won't necessarily ever get roughed up outside of it. The hours and money you'll spend recovering from a black eye or a sprained wrist caused by a moderate violent confrontation pale in comparison to a life time spent preparing for a situation that never comes.

Instructors need to keep people paranoid and fearful so they can get their money as well as rationalize their hobbies to themselves as being necessary.

If somebody passionately wants to kill you, martial arts will be useless because that person will make sure that the odds are in his favour; that's why you need to avoid scummy people and be financially stable so you can surround yourself with reasonable ones. Martial arts are useful in the rare instance where you're jumped by a random person who has no foreknowledge or history with you, is not armed and where there is ample space and a flat surface to move on. There are many situations where size and strength reign supreme over skill.

People who love competing and just plain love the feeling of hitting the mitts or the mat are well adjusted and I wish more power to them. What I'm skeptical of is the attitude that it behooves all men to do this or that to live up to some ideal of masculinity or even to be safe. More often than not this advice is counterproductive just like the idea that you need to do squats and deadlifts in the gym, although these movements are horrible for your spine but the dudebro shaming language is strong and many more youths will be sacrificed to satisfy these ideals.

Do you pay attention to the news going on in Europe, particularly France and Germany? Plenty of people from all demographics are being attacked and raped by refugees/migrants.
A few days ago a 79 yr old women was raped while visiting her sisters grave.
She was old and vulnerable and her chances of becoming a victim are 100%.
Are you trying to tell me if you were attacked at 75yrs old you'd sit there and take it and wouldn't fight back?

The majority of violent crime is one person or group attacking another person or group. What it's not is guys talking trash to other guys on the street proving how tough they are. That is right out of the movies and internet tough guy culture. The violent crime in and around nightclubs is a very small percentage of violent crime in most cities in the west.

Clearly you'll never seen a street fight in person because you know that very very rarely do people walk away with a simple black eye or a sprained wrist. People die from knives being pulled on them or various weapons being used till the victim dies or is serious injured. Again the more you write it's becoming clear that you have zero real world experience and wrote this post from a protective bubble. I'd hazard a guess in saying you might be a woman but you haven't said anything remotely feminist.

In theory, if someone wanted to "passionately kill you" and you didn't know about it then you'd probably die unless you knew how to handle yourself. However for someone to want to passionately kill me I'd probably had to have done something to them previously to warrant such an investment. Therefore i'd be on guard or i'd have resolved the issue so matters like this wouldn't appear. Though reading your words i get the sense that your idea of someone wanting to kill you is not based from real world experience but on a fantasy.
Plenty of people who relied sorely on strength to win fights ended up losing the fight or worse ie seriously injured or died. Again it shows that you have a extremely primitive view of martial arts and it's benefits. Boxing and Muay thai are strength/fitness based disciplines so it makes sense why you think this way.

So now you're a gym expert as well?
People all over the world seek out martial arts for different reasons at different times in their life. Just like with the reasoning behind lifting weights. Some people like doing squats and deadlifts. The only way squats and deadlifts can hurt is if you doing them incorrectly. Full Stop.

Many of the eastern based martial arts have roots in spirituality. From your point of view most people study martial arts to pick on people or to look/act tough etc. While in reality most people study for self defense because they do not want to get hurt, be raped or die due to naive thinking. Some of those people also find the spirituality that the system is based in (speaking exclusively about eastern martial arts).

Its very clear to me you are a cuck.
Why are you even on this forum in the first place?
You've clearly made up your mind on this topic, so why bother posting at all.
The majority of people in the forum are looking to improve themselves in various ways.
Or they are here to offer advice and mentor the younger guys in a world where there are no healthy masculine role models.


What else are you an expert at before we continue this?

Post: #5

There's a good reason newcomers are advised to lurk, then post in established threads, THEN start threads of their own.

This here is like a stranger walking into a bar, going to the stage and tapping the microphone.

"Hello. Is this thing on? Hi. I'd like to talk to you all about..."

The speech is irrelevant because all anyone's thinking is "who the fuck is this guy and where does he get off skirting tradition?"

IMO most martial arts schools actually deaden your ability to fight. You're not allowed to hurt anyone for obvious reasons, so you spend thousands of collective hours conditioning yourself not to hurt people when you get into a fight.

Buy/build a punching bag or a training dummy. Learn the basics on your own. Fist strikes. Elbows. Shins. Knees. Add weapons as suitable. Then learn how to destroy the fuck out of your target in record time.

I give better odds to the man who's gotten in touch with his anger than the man who's spent years pretending to be a ninja.

quickedit: @kinjutsu I'm all for training that fulfills its purpose rather than being a social gathering for twats playing dressups and going through the motions.

Post: #6

(07-27-2016 10:25 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  There's a good reason newcomers are advised to lurk, then post in established threads, THEN start threads of their own.

This here is like a stranger walking into a bar, going to the stage and tapping the microphone.

"Hello. Is this thing on? Hi. I'd like to talk to you all about..."

The speech is irrelevant because all anyone's thinking is "who the fuck is this guy and where does he get off skirting tradition?"

IMO most martial arts schools actually deaden your ability to fight. You're not allowed to hurt anyone for obvious reasons, so you spend thousands of collective hours conditioning yourself [b]not to hurt people when you get into a fight.[/b]

Buy/build a punching bag or a training dummy. Learn the basics on your own. Fist strikes. Elbows. Shins. Knees. Add weapons as suitable. Then learn how to destroy the fuck out of your target in record time.

I give better odds to the man who's gotten in touch with his anger than the man who's spent years pretending to be a ninja.

quickedit: @kinjutsu I'm all for training that fulfills its purpose rather than being a social gathering for twats playing dressups and going through the motions.

Unfortunately this is what most martial arts schools are. Many bjj schools out there fit this description. It gives the beneficial schools a bad name.

Post: #7

(07-27-2016 10:51 PM)kinjutsu Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 10:25 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  There's a good reason newcomers are advised to lurk, then post in established threads, THEN start threads of their own.

This here is like a stranger walking into a bar, going to the stage and tapping the microphone.

"Hello. Is this thing on? Hi. I'd like to talk to you all about..."

The speech is irrelevant because all anyone's thinking is "who the fuck is this guy and where does he get off skirting tradition?"

IMO most martial arts schools actually deaden your ability to fight. You're not allowed to hurt anyone for obvious reasons, so you spend thousands of collective hours conditioning yourself [b]not to hurt people when you get into a fight.[/b]

Buy/build a punching bag or a training dummy. Learn the basics on your own. Fist strikes. Elbows. Shins. Knees. Add weapons as suitable. Then learn how to destroy the fuck out of your target in record time.

I give better odds to the man who's gotten in touch with his anger than the man who's spent years pretending to be a ninja.

quickedit: @kinjutsu I'm all for training that fulfills its purpose rather than being a social gathering for twats playing dressups and going through the motions.

Unfortunately this is what most martial arts schools are. Many bjj schools out there fit this description. It gives the beneficial schools a bad name.

How does a punching bag helps me when in real life, my opponents have arms and can move around?





The best thing any good martial art teaches you is not how to fight, is how to avoid having to fight and picking your battle. Situational awareness + good reflexes get you out of trouble before it blows up.

Any how this whole discussion will be pointless, until the OP actually stumble into a situation when he actually needs to fight. Saying training isn't necessary because violent crime doesn't happen to you is like women saying they dont need man, until the power goes out and doesn't come back on.

Post: #8

(07-28-2016 03:03 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 10:51 PM)kinjutsu Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 10:25 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  There's a good reason newcomers are advised to lurk, then post in established threads, THEN start threads of their own.

This here is like a stranger walking into a bar, going to the stage and tapping the microphone.

"Hello. Is this thing on? Hi. I'd like to talk to you all about..."

The speech is irrelevant because all anyone's thinking is "who the fuck is this guy and where does he get off skirting tradition?"

IMO most martial arts schools actually deaden your ability to fight. You're not allowed to hurt anyone for obvious reasons, so you spend thousands of collective hours conditioning yourself [b]not to hurt people when you get into a fight.[/b]

Buy/build a punching bag or a training dummy. Learn the basics on your own. Fist strikes. Elbows. Shins. Knees. Add weapons as suitable. Then learn how to destroy the fuck out of your target in record time.

I give better odds to the man who's gotten in touch with his anger than the man who's spent years pretending to be a ninja.

quickedit: @kinjutsu I'm all for training that fulfills its purpose rather than being a social gathering for twats playing dressups and going through the motions.

Unfortunately this is what most martial arts schools are. Many bjj schools out there fit this description. It gives the beneficial schools a bad name.

How does a punching bag helps me when in real life, my opponents have arms and can move around?





The best thing any good martial art teaches you is not how to fight, is how to avoid having to fight and picking your battle. Situational awareness + good reflexes get you out of trouble before it blows up.

Any how this whole discussion will be pointless, until the OP actually stumble into a situation when he actually needs to fight. Saying training isn't necessary because violent crime doesn't happen to you is like women saying they dont need man, until the power goes out and doesn't come back on.

Research indicates that simply being confident, assertive and fighting back helps a lot if attacked. You can gain confidence without martial arts and you can learn to throw a punch without spending ages in the gym.

As I said, there are numerous attractions in the world and it seems very biased, hyperbolic and unrealistic to me to expect that the average guy spends a major portion of his free time doing things he does not like to conform to someone else's idea of acting smart.
For the vast majority of people the idea of "needing" martial arts never even enters their minds and they go on to lead perfectly care free lives. It's the obsessing about this bullshit that actually hurts people's health more than a punch in the face and it could be compared to the phenomenon where women attain unhealthy anorexic weight to conform to what they think they "need" to do to conform to someone else's idea of a good life. The biggest benefit will be the smug feeling of false superiority as people play out their movie scenes in their head and perhaps for some people it's better that they answer the calls of their obsessions.

The chances of dying in a road accident are far higher than the chances of being beaten to death and yet nobody suggests that we go around cruising in the dark on shitty roads 4-5 nights a week so we can prepare for real world collisions.

It's one thing to have a hobby but another thing to pretend your hobby is more important and useful than everyone else's.

I don't mean to be abrasive but I think it's only fair that an opposing perspective is heard as well. The pro-view has been clearly exhibited and espoused in various ROK articles and I believe it to be red pill to allow for diversity of thought.

Post: #9

(07-28-2016 03:03 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  How does a punching bag helps me when in real life, my opponents have arms and can move around?
...

Post: #10

(07-28-2016 04:48 AM)SegaSaturn1994 Wrote:  ...

I don't mean to be abrasive but I think it's only fair that an opposing perspective is heard as well. The pro-view has been clearly exhibited and espoused in various ROK articles and I believe it to be red pill to allow for diversity of thought.

There it is.

Strike three.

Enjoy your normalcy bias. I'm sure you're spending all that saved combat training time banging 8's and 9's, making huge $tack$ and traveling the globe.

Post: #11

^ Witchhunting.

What he's saying is perfectly reasonable. And actually, this place supports difference of opinion among rational men (or at least claims to).

Post: #12

SegaSaturn1994 is making a perfectly reasonable argument. The hate he's getting is unwarranted. The reality is that most men don't need to spend years training martial arts, and that extensive martial arts training does carry a heavy cost, both in time/energy invested as well as potential for injury. Guys shouldn't feel like they have to spend years rolling around on mats or taking shots to the head while sparring just to feel confident or masculine. That being said, I think every man should at least take up some basic wrestling, BJJ or boxing for six months to a year. Give it that much time and then see how you feel. If you really enjoy it and are passionate about it, then continue. If not, you can walk away having developed some decent skills that will place you well above the average untrained man. You don't need to be an expert martial artist to be safe and confident in public. Situational awareness is much more valuable than any martial arts training in that regard. And if you're in actual physical peril and forced to defend yourself, you should be using a weapon ASAP (even an improvised one), not your fists.

There's definitely been a surge in groupthink in the manosphere regarding lifting and martial arts. Both are definitely good things, but it seems like guys are becoming obsessed with them and using them as proxies or stand-ins for more balanced success and happiness in life. For example, instead of lifting 3x a week or spending a year learning to box, guys think they need to start taking steroids to get fucking huge or spend 5 days a week for the next ten ears learning martial arts or else they feel like a failure/pussy. It's just not true. There is a happy medium there. Find it.

Post: #13

Some of his points are certainly valid.

As usual, it's not what's said but the way it's said that can annoy.

Post: #14

I want to take up boxing when I move to a bigger city.

Until then I'll just lift weights and carry a gun. That's my happy medium.

Post: #15

(07-28-2016 07:42 PM)scorpion Wrote:  SegaSaturn1994 is making a perfectly reasonable argument. The hate he's getting is unwarranted. The reality is that most men don't need to spend years training martial arts, and that extensive martial arts training does carry a heavy cost, both in time/energy invested as well as potential for injury. Guys shouldn't feel like they have to spend years rolling around on mats or taking shots to the head while sparring just to feel confident or masculine. That being said, I think every man should at least take up some basic wrestling, BJJ or boxing for six months to a year. Give it that much time and then see how you feel. If you really enjoy it and are passionate about it, then continue. If not, you can walk away having developed some decent skills that will place you well above the average untrained man. You don't need to be an expert martial artist to be safe and confident in public. Situational awareness is much more valuable than any martial arts training in that regard. And if you're in actual physical peril and forced to defend yourself, you should be using a weapon ASAP (even an improvised one), not your fists.

There's definitely been a surge in groupthink in the manosphere regarding lifting and martial arts. Both are definitely good things, but it seems like guys are becoming obsessed with them and using them as proxies or stand-ins for more balanced success and happiness in life. For example, instead of lifting 3x a week or spending a year learning to box, guys think they need to start taking steroids to get fucking huge or spend 5 days a week for the next ten ears learning martial arts or else they feel like a failure/pussy. It's just not true. There is a happy medium there. Find it.

The way I see it is it's like a blue pill within the red pill. Sure you've got guys who look down and belittle guys with physical hobbies (particularly lifting and fighting) and turn their noses at it for it being "primitive" or whatever but I believe that in many cases these guys are uncomfortable inside as they might want to do it themselves and are essentially denying the existence of a masculine side inside of them. It's not that they are above those activities; it's just that they are too gutless to engage in them (among many others), which does not make them non-violent but rather many former schoolyard bullies go on to exhibit these kinds of tendencies as they can no longer intimidate their former victims and so they hide under a cover of intellectualism despite having below average IQ's. These guys would not hesitate to literally knife you in the back if they could simply get away with it, which means that their stance of non-violence is simply a cover for their general loserdom and jealous anger. Now this will obviously only apply to guys that are in denial about their true wishes and nature. Some guys truly do not care about that side of them and may or may not do well with women or life in general. Some exposure to the arts would probably help them but they're blessed in that they don't feel a need to obsess about it or hamster away the fears they're running from.

The blue pill within the red pill is to get trapped in the schoolyard hierarchy where toughness was more important than grades or pretty much anything else. It sucks that men have to be exposed to this influence during their most vulnerable years but it does not have to be their adulthood destiny. I wish not to toot my own horn here as I don't consider my accomplishments special but as an adult I took ballet, jazz and even belly dancing before I tried martial arts properly. The schoolyard mentality would have us believe that it's faggy and silly but from a motoric standpoint I found it harder than MA and it certainly helped my confidence in MA and elsewhere. It helped me see my body in a more diverse light and as a functional and aesthetic object beyond my ability to force my will on inanimate objects or humans.
They key word here was the exhibition of courage on a personal level and that's how it all played into my personal idea of masculinity; it arguably took me more courage to get into those dance classes than it took to take fighting (although I've never been in the ring, which is reputed to be the greatest challenge). And if we do not have courage to act, then all our muscles and skills are useless; jumping at the chance to confront a challenge (any unique challenge) is what I currently see as a good embodiment of masculinity.

Post: #16

To further advance my argument developed in the initial post, I've decided to ponder on the various challenges and joys that men dream about in their lives and I've come to the conclusion that violence related fantasies outside of the scope of sports are both common and also the ones that are the least worthy to live out in real life.

The implications of this would be that martial arts training is similar to video games and movies in that helps to live out a fantasy that's never meant to be taken out of that fantasy context. Fantasy contexts will thus include;

-punching the mitts and body conditioning, simulating attacks to vital targets on the mat
-killing a guy in a video game Mortal Kombat style after somersault kicking him first
-watching a movie where a guy beats someone up to right a wrong

All of these actions arouse a fire in a red blooded young man's heart in a similar way.

Other things that men dream about;

-seducing and bedding women
-eating tasty foods and gulping down drinks
-getting drunk or high
-getting book smart or practical skills and flashing those skills and knowledge (language, mechanics, psychology etc.)
-expressing artistic and/or non-confrontational physical skill and looks (gymnastics, dance, basketball, bodybuilding etc.)

Movies and TV as well as martial arts gyms (to some degree) teach us that we can live out violence righteously by using it in self-defense. However, this opportunity likely never comes unless provoked and once you provoke something like that, you'll stand to lose a lot legally, financially and otherwise; perhaps even spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder. This stands in opposition to just about every other activity that men feel naturally drawn to; men fantasize about showing off when learning chinese, game or the piano and they fantasize about that when they learn to choke someone out. The difference is that all of these skills (with the exception of pair based martial art training) can be demonstrated, enjoyed and lived out in a fully live, non-artifical environment.
Thus the smug attitude of some martial artists is almost never based on skill tested in a live environment (except for the ring in many cases but there's no logical reason for the cockiness to transfer outside of that unless one lives in the movie universe) unlike the skill of other hobbyists.

Post: #17

You are correct that people don't need years of martial arts to become good at defending themselves but receiving training can be extremely beneficial if you allow it to.

First to increase awareness to avoid or escape dangerous situations where your life can be threatened.

Second it is your duty to take the knowledge you learn and apply it practically. For example although I didn't do what would be called classical martial arts , I did a few years of wrestling. That helped greatly increase my awareness and help with my control if anything happened in real life.

I have had situations occur where I broke up fights by looking for openings to take down a person fighting and being able to control them with what I learned.

So does someone need years? No

Would it be beneficial if they took at least one or multiple martial arts for a few years? Most likely

Post: #18

As a teenager I trained Tae Kwon Do and Judo, then moved to a Powerlifting/Bodybuilder lifestyle in my 20's.

Because of guys like TravelerKai,
for the last 3 months I have been training with this every morning for 30 to 45 minutes (depending on my schedule)



Awesome for Cardio, Accuracy, Speed and a little bit for Power.
I do a mix of Striking and Grappling.
There isn't enough free time for me to explain the improvements in my life I have experienced from this routine.

Because of the significant increase in quality of life I have noticed from training on my Practice Dummy, I have started going to a local BJJ Dojo in the afternoon 5 to 6 days a week for the last month.

My General - Fitness, Physique Aesthetics and Mental Confidence are at an all time peak.
I'm turning 32 pretty soon, I look and probably feel healthier than 99% of the teenagers I see walking around.

I still do some Powerlifting and Bodybuilding style movements.
However the major lifestyle shift towards Martial Arts Training has been the best thing that has ever happened to my mind and body.