Post: #351

(06-04-2017 10:41 AM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

(06-04-2017 10:14 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  I might think seriously about carrying my bokken around for this reason.

Cascade, you promised me you won't post my cool training photos publicly on the forum.

Apparently your word isn't worth much.

Post: #352

What about those concealed ballistic/stab vests? We havent reached those levels down here but it might be worth it, I'm actually considering sending one to a mate in Germany as a birthday gift...

EDIT:
Like this:

Post: #353

(06-04-2017 10:14 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Kai, regarding the recent truck and knife attacks, whats your take on this for self-defense for Europeans?

Obviously the best way is to run the fuck away, but apparently there were 7 people who did not run fast enough.
We cant have guns as you all know. And say a psycho jumps out of nowhere for a mass killing frenzy (so its no robbery, no assasination, just like the last attack) right next to me, what's the best course of action?

There's a bazillion techniques about disarming a knife in Aikido/Jujustu, but I wont take my chance with that.
Would an expendable baton be of use thanks to the better range?
I might think seriously about carrying my bokken around for this reason.

Other than that, I think all those HEMA/kenjutsu equipment I got will actually be of real use. Chainmail and gambeson protect very well against stabbing/cutting.

Well, you need to use the advice CCW, LTC, CQC, Systema people give for tactical preparedness.

You already train Aikido. If you are asking for more advice on what to do, that says alot about your training. You probably need to switch to Systema or temporarily take a break from Aikido and train Systema for a while, then go back to all that Japanese sword related stuff and your Aikido. While that stuff is fun, it's not practical for what you are needing and your situation.

You need training for Active Shooters, knife attacks, car jackings, home invasions, and terrorism. The only martial arts that covers this stuff is Systema and CQC.

Watch this James Yeager video, start at the 1 min mark and stop at the 3:00 mark. He teaches some real talk for Europeans, and which is good for French people.




Don't listen to the rest of the video or most of his advice because it is not applicable and he is a little bit crazy anyway. But in a situation, you need to know how to use an AK in case you disarm/jump a shooter in a live situation you know how to use it on his buddies. He also advises carrying a knife which I recommend, but you need training on that.

Me personally, I can do anything with my hands a knife can do and maybe better. I don't like using the knife as much because it is more limited than my hands. However, I carry them because it is a another option to go along with my hands. I cannot always assume I can use my firearm in every situation either. If I got disarmed of my gun in a regular fistfight, I could slice that guy's wrist making him drop my gun with a karambit. At that point, deadly force is legal, but if he just punched or pushed me, I cannot use that.

Anyway, retractible/collapsible sticks, knives, etc. while good, cannot replace a solid foundation in self defense.

In that London thread I saw this post:
/thread-63079...pid1585200

Guys think that dude is brave or whatever, but to me he lacked the skills needed to stop that attack and should have ran. He got stabbed in the neck and cannot talk. Like John likes to say in those videos he makes, gotta have Attitude, Skills, AND a Plan.

I looked this guy up, and apparently he is a boxer and a MMA guy. This is yet again, another reason why I'm constantly telling guys that MMA, BJJ, and Boxing is NOT good for street self defense!

If you see terrorism going on in progress and you have the ability to escape, do it. Do not try and be a hero for that shit especially if you are not armed with anything. If kids are getting mowed down or cut to ribbons, steel yourself and get out of the area. Don't let your emotions get the better of you. You have no idea how long it will take police with guns to stop them, and even if you escape, if they somehow find you and others hiding somewhere, you will have to fight then. No use getting flanked before and stabbed in the neck. It is much easier to fight off an attack from a defensive position, not in an open area full of chaos. A counter ambush from behind a door is light years better than trying to bumrush a terrorist carrying God knows what, empty handed in the open where he has backup that can cut you or shoot you.

Understand the differences between cover and concealment.

Gotta play the long game and have a plan based on solid and effective strategies known to work for centuries.

You do not draw a gun on a drawn gun. Same principle here. Don't lunge at knife/machete wielding attackers. Be in a position to launch a counter ambush. Conceal your draw (gun wise) by turning your waist to a side view so they cannot see you pull it out. This will sound fucked up, but let them stab someone else, then counter ambush them by jumping on them carving up some woman/guy/kid. Disarm him then slice his throat open, then turn his body to your front and use him as a meat shield and move off to the side. Quickly look for the +1. (extra terrorists running around, never assume they are solo), give first aid to the victims after you secure the scene and instruct others to call for an ambulance. You cannot save everyone in a space or room, but you can save most. Always wait for your turn!!!

For vehicle defense, you have to be environment savvy.

1.Avoid areas where you cannot escape through people crowd in.
2. Avoid walking on bridge areas where the traffic is to your back.
3. Always memorize exits.
4. Pay attention to how much egress you have in any walking area, in case you need to jump to the sides and sprint.
5. Walk in the direction facing incoming cars. Don't walk on the edges of sidewalks if you can help it.
6. Check the street before running out there, otherwise you might get smashed harder.
7. Don't assume the police have good barricades in party/festival areas and keep your head on a swivel.

Other than that, jumping at cars trying to hit you is movie shit and that can still kill you easily. Not much else you can do in that case if you do not have a gun to shot the driver.

Post: #354

(06-04-2017 11:35 AM)El_Gostro Wrote:  What about those concealed ballistic/stab vests? We havent reached those levels down here but it might be worth it, I'm actually considering sending one to a mate in Germany as a birthday gift...

EDIT:
Like this:

To me this stuff is junk. You might as well pony up the bread and buy a reasonable level 1-2 kevlar bulletproof vest or wear a backpack with an insert inside it.

Here is one for 84 dollars.
https://www.amazon.com/SHIELD-PACK-Rated...B00DZXRDLS

Someone shooting in front of you? Swing your pack around to your chest. Or turn around and run away, if you are shot in the back, it will stop the bullet. Your laptop might die, but you won't. Anything that will stop a bullet will stop a knife stab.

AEShield makes really good inserts.
https://www.aearmor.com/bulletproof-back...shield.htm


Hopefully your country will let you buy these items, and your customs will let you have it, because chainmail and that shitty stabvest is junk.

Other than that, investing in yourself with good training is better than any of these things.

Colin Noir has a good video talking about all of this stuff.




The part for you guys starts at 1:13, but the whole video is nice as always.

Post: #355

FYI, buy the right insert for the right defense. Some of those inserts are not going to stop a .308 or 7.62 round (like from an AK rifle), so get the right one if that is applicable to your country's threats.

Post: #356

Just got my account activated for this site a few days ago and decided to look at this. This is a really good thread man. A bit overwhelming but definitely something any man can use. I am not sure where to start though because I have always fought guys dirty. Never mind using objects, nut shots, eye shots, elbows, or grabbing "too much" and just slinging someone around into objects.

Some guys and girls don't know when to stop when they start fighting. They will keep hitting you and hitting you until someone takes them off; usually after rubber necking and possibly recording the fight. Others like to laugh and instigate. All it takes is about 10-15 seconds and suddenly you feel tired as fuck and are bleeding. I just can't risk a situation like that spiraling out of control.

Of course, I'd rather persuade and avoid fighting altogether. It's just the best and most mature way of going about it.

I've been looking into buying firearms and other security equipment lately as well.

Post: #357

(06-05-2017 10:15 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Someone shooting in front of you? Swing your pack around to your chest. Or turn around and run away, if you are shot in the back, it will stop the bullet. Your laptop might die, but you won't. Anything that will stop a bullet will stop a knife stab.

Post: #358

(06-05-2017 11:15 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 10:15 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Someone shooting in front of you? Swing your pack around to your chest. Or turn around and run away, if you are shot in the back, it will stop the bullet. Your laptop might die, but you won't. Anything that will stop a bullet will stop a knife stab.

Most gun users aim for center mass, especially on targets 20+ yards away. It is too hard to aim for the head in the heat of a battle or a fight. Headshots at distances are for people playing Counterstrike. In real life it is far more efficient and realistic to aim for centermass, because recoil and sights sway is a very real thing, more so if you are nervous or anxious.

If you are in a crowd of people in Paris, and someone shouts Allah Akbar and starts mowing folks down with an AK, swing that backpack over your back, tuck your chin to keep your head down, and run for the nearest cover, then pivot and look for an escape route. If you get super unlucky and they still clip your head, it is what it is. At least you tried and made the effort.

Post: #359

@TK what is your recommendation for grip strength. My right grip is much stronger than my left and it's starting to get annoying.

Post: #360

(06-05-2017 03:31 PM)KC4 Wrote:  @TK what is your recommendation for grip strength. My right grip is much stronger than my left and it's starting to get annoying.

(08-12-2016 08:55 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(08-11-2016 10:24 AM)Ringo Wrote:  Thanks for the thoughtful reply and great thread. +1.

I already do plenty of what you mentioned (not mixing lifting and sparring, peaking, taking short breaks). The 30-60min stretching and flow sessions also include yoga - I do them at the park and try to get some approaches in afterwards, so I guess I'm on the right track .

I could definitely use the fish oil and more careful review of my own training footage - I love seeing matches on YouTube but I haven't watched myself spar more than a couple of times.

Not sure if you posted about this before, but could you elaborate on your recommendation of S&C? Curious how you incorporate ropes and kettlebells.

I've posted about Steve Maxwell a few times before. I'm really into his stuff - slower tempo and bodyweight exercises, a lot of mobility work, KBs. He focuses on longevity and movement.

I'm a tall, lanky, generally weak guy so for now I'm focusing on strength. I try to keep it very simple, 3x/week, few exercises:

(08-05-2016 11:29 AM)Ringo Wrote:  I lift 3x/week and do BJJ 3x/week. Only 3 sets of RPT weighted pullups/RPT press/20-rep light squats or 100 pushups/RPT heavy rows/20-rep light squats, with some curls and triceps extensions 1x/week. All my lifts went way up, bodyweight increased a bit and I feel and look better overall.

Strength and Conditioning is a REALLY big topic. You could easily write a datasheet 10X longer than mine just to cover the basics. There is a reason why guys watch dudes like Elliot Hulse, etc. on Youtube and these guys have 100K+ subscribers.

Fortunately, for BJJ it can be broken down into smaller parts.

1. Neck

2. Core

3. Legs

4. Wrists/hands/forearms

5. Back

Those are the areas of concentration you are going to want above average strength in.

The neck, core, back, and leg exercises will help you bridge faster and get heavier guys off you from a mount. You have to be able to "explode" and push off into transitions. This will be key for you to master to get from Purple to Brown belt.

As for which methods are best, I honestly do not have a huge opinion on. Weight training or without doesn't matter. Olympic sets and pyramids are both good, in my opinion. I never had a preference and I did everything from bench press and squats, to pushups and good ol fashioned horse stance with buckets. I mixed it up to avoid getting bored or frustrated.

Kettlebells in my opinion should be damn near mandatory for BJJ guys. I did not get better from purple -> black until I started fucking with them. Your pull and yank strength will go way up. You will work muscles you do not work as often.

Put it this way. When you are strong enough that you can pull a guy's hands off your gi with 3 fingers instead of your entire hand, you save ALOT of energy. Doing big strategic moves, with minimal movement requirements, is very advanced stuff.

Energy saving is a huge deal in BJJ when you get to higher belt levels. Unless you are in a tournament, you will not be rolling with dudes your exact weight. So to get better you almost have to get serious about S&C workout sets, so that you can get access to higher instruction from your teacher as well as belt rank.

(02-21-2015 05:31 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  Use a wrist roller to do this exercise (but see notes below):





Note, when done correctly it is one of the most intense and painful things you can do in the gym and it will burn muscle and build up your forearms. Here is the key:

Keep your elbows LOCKED at all times (unlike what the dude does in the video). Bending your arms at the elbow allows other and larger muscles to get involved. Keeping arms straight and elbows rigorously locked isolates the forearms.

Keeping the elbows locked will make this **much harder** -- you will be stunned at just how much -- so go to much lower weights, see how it feels to do sets with just 5 or 10 lbs. After enough reps your forearms will burn like hell, and you should just push through and keep going, always keeping elbows locked and a very complete rotational range of motion in your wrists.

If you're a badass this is a great thing to do at the very end of your lift after you've been gripping weights for an hour or more. Do that consistently and your forearms will get strong.

(02-26-2015 11:30 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Other than doing rolls for grip strength, you can also do Chainsaw rips as well.

(09-27-2012 03:16 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  This is the #1 source for grip training info.

http://www.ironmind.com/

Should be obvious, but work that other hand/arm until it is on par with the other one. Don't do the exact same reps on both, otherwise you will never get rid of that problem.

Post: #361

I would +1 TK again for the post above if I could.

Post: #362

Thanks for the replies Kai. As you said most martial arts can not prepare you for this kind of situation. I'm not ashamed to admit my best and only response here is to recognize danger and flee. How many of tough guys onRVF would actually end up like that Asian MMA/boxer? I would be running the fuck away and not sitting there playing hero getting stab. You just dont take your chances with knifes (or any weapon) held by crazy Jihads. The USA learn this the hard way with Viet Cong

I'll try to find someone who teaches legit Systema or CQC in Paris. A buddy who is a marine took a seminar in Poland who deals with this shit.

As for fighting back, here is one big concern: say you somehow disarm the terrorists / grappling / fighting with them, what's the chances of the police showing up, being unprofessionals and just shoot you and the terrorists involved? Say I disarm a fucker and use his gun shooting back at his mates, would police takes me for the actual shooter and shoot me first, ask questions later?

Obviously if they are pointing guns at me and the only choices is to fight or die / wait for police (read: die) then I would employ the skills you said. But if I can run I will fucking run. This is no time to be playing hero and I'm not getting paid in virgins for this.

Post: #363

(06-06-2017 07:10 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  As for fighting back, here is one big concern: say you somehow disarm the terrorists / grappling / fighting with them, what's the chances of the police showing up, being unprofessionals and just shoot you and the terrorists involved? Say I disarm a fucker and use his gun shooting back at his mates, would police takes me for the actual shooter and shoot me first, ask questions later?

The British armed police, who showed up and shot these guys dead, fired 50 shots to kill 3 guys with knives, shooting a civilian in the head in the process (who is apparently stable).

Armed police are often very dangerous to those they purport to protect. You are responsible for your personal safety, and the personal safety of those you love. It would be a mistake to rely on the police. They simply don't get the training, or enough real-life calls (yet) to be able to exercise good judgement under extreme stress, and to handle the effects of the adrenaline dump when they find themselves in a live situation.

Post: #364

(06-06-2017 07:10 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Thanks for the replies Kai. As you said most martial arts can not prepare you for this kind of situation. I'm not ashamed to admit my best and only response here is to recognize danger and flee. How many of tough guys onRVF would actually end up like that Asian MMA/boxer? I would be running the fuck away and not sitting there playing hero getting stab. You just dont take your chances with knifes (or any weapon) held by crazy Jihads. The USA learn this the hard way with Viet Cong

As for fighting back, here is one big concern: say you somehow disarm the terrorists / grappling / fighting with them, what's the chances of the police showing up, being unprofessionals and just shoot you and the terrorists involved? Say I disarm a fucker and use his gun shooting back at his mates, would police takes me for the actual shooter and shoot me first, ask questions later?

Obviously if they are pointing guns at me and the only choices is to fight or die / wait for police (read: die) then I would employ the skills you said. But if I can run I will fucking run. This is no time to be playing hero and I'm not getting paid in virgins for this.

That's a very good question/point.

Your police have zero training in dealing with a licensed gun carrier out there. They are only used to themselves having guns. If you could hear them in the distance, perhaps use the stock and knock out the terrorist or dispatch the perp with their own knife and toss it aside, then put your own hands up.

On one hand, your police are not as trigger happy as ours. They seem to have to shout and announce all kinds of things before shooting from what I have seen. Our shoot first and ask later almost without fail, which is a risk even CCWs have to take, but we are taught certain things in class for our state to let them know we are not the bad guy. Works for the most part as long as you don't forget it.

If you are behind cover and shooting back at terrorists and the cops show up. Toss your gun down and get down prone on your stomach with your hands behind your head. Use your knees instead if that would stick your feet out of your cover. Wait for them to finish the gun fight. Get arrested or detained, work it out with your prosecutors later. Still better than being dead. Use the media to keep them from charging you with a crime with shaming tactics if necessary. I can promise you, any Tommy Robinson types caught fighting jihadis, they will try to prosecute just to teach them a lesson or silence for a while.

Post: #365

(06-06-2017 07:59 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 07:10 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  As for fighting back, here is one big concern: say you somehow disarm the terrorists / grappling / fighting with them, what's the chances of the police showing up, being unprofessionals and just shoot you and the terrorists involved? Say I disarm a fucker and use his gun shooting back at his mates, would police takes me for the actual shooter and shoot me first, ask questions later?

The British armed police, who showed up and shot these guys dead, fired 50 shots to kill 3 guys with knives, shooting a civilian in the head in the process (who is apparently stable).

Armed police are often very dangerous to those they purport to protect. You are responsible for your personal safety, and the personal safety of those you love. It would be a mistake to rely on the police. They simply don't get the training, or enough real-life calls (yet) to be able to exercise good judgement under extreme stress, and to handle the effects of the adrenaline dump when they find themselves in a live situation.

Yeah, collateral damage is going to happen. They are not exactly sending the British SAS or the French GIGN everytime an attack happens. Those units take time to scramble and are usually used in a really bad situation.

That is why cover is very important whether you have a gun to fight back with or not.

In the USA, especially with black people , we are very used to ducking down immediately and running for cover as soon as shots are fired. Comedians like to joke about how quick we are to do that and how white people stand around and look first to see what is going on getting shot in the process, but it's really not that silly. Everyone with any good sense here knows to do that first and ask questions later. Sometimes even if you do that, you could still get clipped being unlucky.

Post: #366

Fuck fighting terrorists or saving children if that means I'll get shot / charged in the process by the fucking police. Keep eyes and ears open and tail and bail at the first sight of trouble and watch the world burn.

Long live lord Slaanesh!

EDIT: ok, looked up Systema in Paris. As I told you, it's the same fucking bullshit like looking for legit Krav Manga in Paris. Here's two most popular sites where they claim they are affiliated with the original Systema league:

http://www.globalsystema.fr/videos-systema/
http://systemaparis.fr/videos.html

Kai, maybe you can correct me and tell me these guys are good, but from the videos this is the same bullshit I see every time in Aikido: flow with your attackers, put your hands just slightly like this and the guy will just fall on his ass and die from your inner Chi, etc. They dont even seem to have any kind of sparring.

When things get worse I'll try getting a full kevlar vest or something like the insert/backpack you mention and avoid going out as much as possible. Fuck fighting crazies. At least back in the day the Romans gave you citizenship and paid you for that shit.

Kai, maybe asking too much but can you put together a list of useful defense items for people in Europe?
I didnt even know about the bulletproof insert thing until you said it.

Post: #367

(06-06-2017 08:41 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Fuck fighting terrorists or saving children if that means I'll get shot / charged in the process by the fucking police. Keep eyes and ears open and tail and bail at the first sight of trouble and watch the world burn.

Long live lord Slaanesh!

EDIT: ok, looked up Systema in Paris. As I told you, it's the same fucking bullshit like looking for legit Krav Manga in Paris. Here's two most popular sites where they claim they are affiliated with the original Systema league:

http://www.globalsystema.fr/videos-systema/
http://systemaparis.fr/videos.html

Kai, maybe you can correct me and tell me these guys are good, but from the videos this is the same bullshit I see every time in Aikido: flow with your attackers, put your hands just slightly like this and the guy will just fall on his ass and die from your inner Chi, etc. They dont even seem to have any kind of sparring.

When things get worse I'll try getting a full kevlar vest or something like the insert/backpack you mention and avoid going out as much as possible. Fuck fighting crazies. At least back in the day the Romans gave you citizenship and paid you for that shit.

Kai, maybe asking too much but can you put together a list of useful defense items for people in Europe?
I didnt even know about the bulletproof insert thing until you said it.

Hmm I see what you mean. They seem to know the techniques and are an official affiliate, from all the vids I could find out there, but they always do everything in the videos super slowly. That's both good and bad. At least you know they do not go through classes at lightspeed and would make you struggle to keep up. At the same time, do they do anything at full speed or even half speed? You could spend the time to learn what they can teach, even slowly but you would have to eventually supplement with other teachers, seminars, etc. Teaching super slow always is extremely old fashioned. In fact, that is how Aikido was taught for decades! I can see why you said what you said. Doesn't mean you cannot learn that way, but it's not exactly ideal.

Are these guys far away from you? http://www.systemafrance.com/?contact

There are 3 Systema places in Paris.

I think you need to prepare for a field trip and go for a visit. If you do, report back what your impressions are. If I were you I would go see all 3. Call first to see if you may be able to see something demonstrated at half or full speed before showing up.

Kinda too time consuming to go over every possible weapon you could use or buy. You guys cannot have half the stuff I walk out the door with and I am not very big into weaponry outside of guns and knives to begin with. I probably should have brought up the body armor before, but the thought never crossed my mind for whatever reasons. Maybe because it is typically gun related and I have to block that part of self defense out mentally when posting here because vast majority of the guys that post in the thread cannot have them.

Post: #368

Will do, thanks Sensei!

Post: #369

Just a couple of minor things.

Virtually nothing you'd carry on your person short of bullet specific armour will stop a centre-fire bullet (except 80-100 kilos of person perhaps).

Stab vests are ineffective against bullets and ballistic vests are ineffective against being stabbed. The two use similar materials but in different weaves for very specific threats.

While it may sound stupid, if you're running away from someone with a gun then try to add a bit of zigging and zagging. Targets like that are infuriatingly difficult to hit.

But honestly, when it comes to being shot at unless you've got legitimate ballistic fibre or plates in your backpack then you're probably better off just dropping it to get full range of movement while reducing your overall weight.

If in doubt visit this educational web site. It's a must for anyone who doesn't have a solid grasp on what counts as cover vs concealment when dealing with this gun (chambering) or that gun.

https://www.theboxotruth.com/

An empty beer keg for example will take the punch out of most pistol rounds but if you're relying on it to stop an AK then you'll be shit-out-of-luck.

Post: #370

I was hoping to pick the brains of the experienced fighters here. I read an article written in response to the London stabbings and this bit stood out.

Quote:4). Learn to be violent:

This is why I am not impressed with the majority of martial arts training. Too much sport. Too much esoteric spiritual stuff. Not enough violence. We need more "martial", and less "art" - as it were. I expect that today, the Monday after the London Bridge attack, the martial arts schools in the UK (and USA) will be filled with eager soccer moms and football dads (cricket-moms and rugby-dads?) looking for the easy solution to this problem. And they will be taught esoteric stuff intended for the "perfection of character", or stuff developed for winning a match somewhere.

What they need is to be taught to physically destroy their opponent, crushing windpipes, smashing skulls, breaking bones. The "real karate" that so few schools even understand much less teach. But again, see item 1. I have trained in hand to hand stuff since I was ten years old and I would prefer to not face against a knife empty handed.

Having all my life been conditioned to resolve even physical disputes with an absolute minimum of force, and given that the vast majority of training in this regard is given with total deference to the potential of causing a training injury, it's my experience that modern martial arts training can actually inhibit your ability to do what is absolutely necessary in a situation like the London scenario.

The story of the "martial arts expert" (a broad concept, but ok) getting stabbed in the neck somewhat twinged this issue for me.

I've known more than a few guys with tons of belts and fancy dojo titles. A newspaper reporter might well describe them as a "martial arts expert". But these guys were seriously lacking in basic aggression. And I'm not saying this because they didn't run around picking fights. They didn't carry themselves with a Steven Segal type of quiet but menacing professionalism. To be honest, most of them were flat out sooks and looking back I have to wonder if they were always like that or if their training literally turned them into soft-contact soy.

The way I see it, Martial Arts are a force multiplier and if there's little to no underlying force then you're essentially multiplying zero.

So what I'm getting around to is this. Do you guys still have access to your cave-man zero-fucks-given crush-the-tribal-enemy killer instinct? If you were at one of these events and an attacker came through the doorway with his back to you, could you legitimately bring yourself to use the most deadly option available to you with your truest full force?

If so, how does it figure into your training if at all?

Post: #371

(06-06-2017 10:59 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I was hoping to pick the brains of the experienced fighters here. I read an article written in response to the London stabbings and this bit stood out.

Quote:4). Learn to be violent:

This is why I am not impressed with the majority of martial arts training. Too much sport. Too much esoteric spiritual stuff. Not enough violence. We need more "martial", and less "art" - as it were. I expect that today, the Monday after the London Bridge attack, the martial arts schools in the UK (and USA) will be filled with eager soccer moms and football dads (cricket-moms and rugby-dads?) looking for the easy solution to this problem. And they will be taught esoteric stuff intended for the "perfection of character", or stuff developed for winning a match somewhere.

What they need is to be taught to physically destroy their opponent, crushing windpipes, smashing skulls, breaking bones. The "real karate" that so few schools even understand much less teach. But again, see item 1. I have trained in hand to hand stuff since I was ten years old and I would prefer to not face against a knife empty handed.

Having all my life been conditioned to resolve even physical disputes with an absolute minimum of force, and given that the vast majority of training in this regard is given with total deference to the potential of causing a training injury, it's my experience that modern martial arts training can actually inhibit your ability to do what is absolutely necessary in a situation like the London scenario.

The story of the "martial arts expert" (a broad concept, but ok) getting stabbed in the neck somewhat twinged this issue for me.

I've known more than a few guys with tons of belts and fancy dojo titles. A newspaper reporter might well describe them as a "martial arts expert". But these guys were seriously lacking in basic aggression. And I'm not saying this because they didn't run around picking fights. They didn't carry themselves with a Steven Segal type of quiet but menacing professionalism. To be honest, most of them were flat out sooks and looking back I have to wonder if they were always like that or if their training literally turned them into soft-contact soy.

The way I see it, Martial Arts are a force multiplier and if there's little to no underlying force then you're essentially multiplying zero.

So what I'm getting around to is this. Do you guys still have access to your cave-man zero-fucks-given crush-the-tribal-enemy killer instinct? If you were at one of these events and an attacker came through the doorway with his back to you, could you legitimately bring yourself to use the most deadly option available to you with your truest full force?

If so, how does it figure into your training if at all?

People divide roughly into: people who have the instinct to kill inherently (relatively few), people who can be trained/conditioned to kill (the majority), people who have no business being anywhere near a shootout (again, relatively few).

Much of military training focuses around taking the majority of people, and preparing them psychologically to kill. An obvious example of this is the move to figure 11 targets, simunitions, and the general battle inoculation training modern armies do a reasonable amount of. Lt. Col. David Grossman wrote a famous and interesting (the first half at least) book on this, called 'On Killing'.

For the average person, I believe there are a number of things that one can usefully do to prepare for a life or death situation:

1. Visualisation. Run through scenarios in your head, and how you will respond to them. Don't delude yourself at any point in this exercise - if you don't know ninja stuff, don't pretend you're suddenly going to execute a spinning kick on a baddy's head in the heat of battle then fuck his virgins. Decide in your head exactly what you are prepared to do, and how you will handle a range of scenarios. The military train (particularly SF) to deal with unfamiliarity, hostility, etc, and you can mimic a lot of this by running through it in your head. The main thing is to have the gross motor skills and basic plan ready for deployment should the situation arise. A big part of effectiveness under duress is your ability to be composed, and to keep executing a basic (potentially very aggressive) plan effectively.

2. Physical fitness, strength, combat readiness. Be fit. Strength is a great weapon, but isn't worth that much if you don't have the engine. Martial arts (real ones where you do actually have to fight) are good practise for stress inoculation and pain management. It's not so much the techniques you learn, so much as the ability to fight when afraid, and to take some punishment and keep moving towards your enemy. To me, this is the real value in sports like boxing for real life situations.

3. Hunting. Remove all squeamishness. You should be able to finish off wounded game with a knife, or your bare hands (eg slit a deer's throat, split its vertebrae through its mouth with a steel, drive a spike into its brain through its ear, break a rabbit's neck, or wring a pheasant's, etc etc), and be able to gut an animal you've killed. Become inherently pragmatic about killing reasonably sized and quite lovely game, and butchering it. I always find myself thinking, when I look down the scope of my rifle and train the crosshairs on a deer's eye, that this is a lovely and harmless creature - and that in some sense it is a shame I'm going to kill it. Take a moment to really appreciate that this beautiful, fragile thing, which has no idea that it is about to die, doesn't actually need to be killed. And then squeeze the trigger and kill it anyway. A certain degree of callousness is a healthy quality in a man, so long as it is controlled, and it is no bad thing to cultivate it. Again, one needs to get into a state of mind where one is able to be dispassionate once one has decided on a course of action, and execute a plan with the maximum effectiveness and efficiency.

Post: #372

For the fellas out there in Europe that do not mind carrying a knife or interested in knife fighting for self defense, check out this older Doug video:





The entire video is worth watching.

I would make the argument that even a lightly trained person carrying a karambit is at an advantage against a mere terrorist carrying a machete.

If one runs up on you and you pull out your karambit and take a defensive posture, I would not be surprised if they backed off and looked for another person to stab instead.

You have to understand that Terrorists are looking for victims, not fights. Same thing with robbers and even other mass murderers. They don't do these things wishing Superman would arrive to fight them to provide a challenge. They don't even want to see the police unless they think they can ambush them as well. Take note, the police officer attacks in France have 100% been ambushes, where they are trying to steal their firearms or outright surprise them.

Even a fool with a machete can understand that if they swing at you and miss, you are going to slice their wrist or arm, possibly even their throat with that karambit. That is a huge risk to their mission of killing as many people as possible.

If your forefinger is inside the ring, you could puncture their lungs 3-4 times very rapidly after they miss with a swing. I would also advise to run the blade up to slice after a puncture. Someone cut that wide open will psychologically freak out. That's alot of their own blood to mentally deal with.

Just be mindful of their weapon if they swing and miss, on the return. Priorities is to secure their own arm, then deal the damage second. A person with a machete can be defeated with a mere elbow grip hold on their arm (the closer to them you are the worse it is for them to hurt you). Most are too stupid to drop the machete to get their arm free. Use the instep of your foot to sweep their back heels to make them lose their balance to buy a few more seconds of time. Slice the neck once as the final follow up, and try to make an escape. They wont last long after that but if you feel that you can finish them off, go for it. There is no right or wrong progression, it depends on the situation and your level of training.

Be mindful of excessive force laws in your country because even killing a disarmed terrorist may cause you to have to defend yourself in court if they drop their weapon early in the fight and you still sliced their throat open. Your legal defense is inherently better than against a common robber, but some of these countries have gotten some PC, that they refuse to call attacks terrorism at all, which could weaken your legal defense possibly.

Post: #373

(06-06-2017 10:59 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I was hoping to pick the brains of the experienced fighters here. I read an article written in response to the London stabbings and this bit stood out.

Quote:4). Learn to be violent:

This is why I am not impressed with the majority of martial arts training. Too much sport. Too much esoteric spiritual stuff. Not enough violence. We need more "martial", and less "art" - as it were. I expect that today, the Monday after the London Bridge attack, the martial arts schools in the UK (and USA) will be filled with eager soccer moms and football dads (cricket-moms and rugby-dads?) looking for the easy solution to this problem. And they will be taught esoteric stuff intended for the "perfection of character", or stuff developed for winning a match somewhere.

What they need is to be taught to physically destroy their opponent, crushing windpipes, smashing skulls, breaking bones. The "real karate" that so few schools even understand much less teach. But again, see item 1. I have trained in hand to hand stuff since I was ten years old and I would prefer to not face against a knife empty handed.

Having all my life been conditioned to resolve even physical disputes with an absolute minimum of force, and given that the vast majority of training in this regard is given with total deference to the potential of causing a training injury, it's my experience that modern martial arts training can actually inhibit your ability to do what is absolutely necessary in a situation like the London scenario.

The story of the "martial arts expert" (a broad concept, but ok) getting stabbed in the neck somewhat twinged this issue for me.

I've known more than a few guys with tons of belts and fancy dojo titles. A newspaper reporter might well describe them as a "martial arts expert". But these guys were seriously lacking in basic aggression. And I'm not saying this because they didn't run around picking fights. They didn't carry themselves with a Steven Segal type of quiet but menacing professionalism. To be honest, most of them were flat out sooks and looking back I have to wonder if they were always like that or if their training literally turned them into soft-contact soy.

The way I see it, Martial Arts are a force multiplier and if there's little to no underlying force then you're essentially multiplying zero.

So what I'm getting around to is this. Do you guys still have access to your cave-man zero-fucks-given crush-the-tribal-enemy killer instinct? If you were at one of these events and an attacker came through the doorway with his back to you, could you legitimately bring yourself to use the most deadly option available to you with your truest full force?

If so, how does it figure into your training if at all?

H1N1 gave an excellent response, so he wins that question.

It's gonna be them, not me. I want to go home at the end of the day and make love to my wife and play with my kids. I'm not laying out in that street if I have my say. My kids and wife aren't going hungry and I need to be there for them.

That's my mental level.

My only PTSD symptoms only came from losses in matches. Not from victories.

I only show mercy if I have complete control in a self defense situation. Like I easily disarm the person with little effort. It's a teenager, a kid, a woman, etc.

If I have to fight for my life, or the person is my match or outmatches me, I will give everything and hold nothing back. Elbows to the skull will be used. Chokes will used. Breaks will be done full speed 100% to completion. I will use my karambit on their neck and slice all the way across without a second thought.

Training does not necessarily prepare you for the mentality. Teachers can help if they are very descriptive and like talking mindset, like I do with you guys on the forum even on other subjects. A certain UFC guy I trained under talked like this and had a major impact on my mindset because he actually broke people's bones in matches before he got to the UFC. He would always yell out loud when he saw low effort, "My wife and kids ain't going hungry, I'm going home with that fucking paycheck!"

He would say shit like, "I'm walking out this ring tonight, but you won't."

His mentality was next level for alot of us because we were floating between casual and amatuer. He was already a pro. He helped us understand that the difference between us being pro was a lack of killer instinct. He was spot on.

When you tie your gi belt in Japanese style martial arts, one side represents that you choose life over death. You must choose to live first if you want to fight back.

Some people have a much easier time adjusting to the mindset depending upon how they grew up as well. Hunting, growing up fighting for your life in a ghetto or dangerous area, etc.

Young men that join the military that freak out and end up with PTSD, were gambling on that because they had almost no foundation and saw the worse of life too soon all at once. Seeing a dead crackhead in a ditch and smelling how awful it is, as a kid, gives you enough time to reflect and get used to it. If you grow up on a farm, never hunted, join the army, and see 10 buddies blown to pieces in front of you, your chances of getting over that is immensely less than the person who saw death very early.

Mindset is a coefficient of time. You need time to develop it but life comes at you fast and you may not have that luxury.

Post: #374

Thanks, TK. Motivation is the word of the day. That's a really powerful point.

I suppose that's why a lot of the guys I knew were much-ado-about-nothing. No real motivation. I guess in a situation like that the difference between living or dying could be your ability to summon that motivation in the blink of an eye.

Post: #375

LDN,

H1N1 has a good post from quite a while back that also touches on that subject:

(03-18-2016 02:04 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  First, you need to define what you mean by 'combat'. I don't think you are sure in your own mind, because the options you list are Muai Thai and Krav, one of which is a sport fighting set of rules, the other ranges all the way from SF viable techniques to something taught to overweight mothers to help them pass the time and fight off the non-existant threat of rape (their doughyness being by far the most telling deterrent).

Second, you say 'you can either be strong/tough/big OR be fast/agile'. This is not really true for sporting applications or real world violence. For sports, these qualities exist for all of us on a sliding scale, and you can build your game (and it is a game, which makes it decidedly not combat) around various strengths and weaknesses. For real world violence it is much simpler in many respects - fundamentally you either have a predator's mindset or a victim's mindset. At 135lbs in an unarmed tussle, you're probably going to take a beating in most situations. People like to talk about little guys beating big guys through superior skill, but it's almost always a little guy telling you about 'this one time...'.

The only way this isn't true is if you have the right mind-state, which is that you're the meanest motherfucker on the face of the earth. For real world violence this is how the little guy (or any guy) wins consistently. You have to be prepared to bite a man's eyelids off, squeeze his balls till they burst in your hand, brain him with an ash tray, etc,etc,etc. The point is, you win real violence by being the one most willing to do brutal/lethal damage. You know how a 135lb guy beats a 225lb guy who is making trouble? You shut down the circulatory, respiratory, or nervous system, causing death or serious injury, and you use a knife or blunt object, a 'force multiplier' if you will, to achieve the desired outcome.

This is why I preach the importance of being polite to everyone, and not letting your ego get you into trouble. That way if someone really won't let it go, you are in a position where your choices are simple. People get into trouble because they let themselves get into a reactive cycle, whereby the behaviour of the guy in front of them dictates how they conduct themselves. You unwittingly become the supplicant. Smile, be polite, hold their gaze and say nothing, it doesn't really matter so long as you maintain your frame. Do not allow yourself to be forced into acting out or being stupid.

If you are talking about 'real-world' violence, then my very basic checklist would look a bit like this:

- Take up a combat sport with full contact striking which you can spar regularly in. This will toughen you up, give you some confidence, teach you to take a punch, not freak out like it's the end of the world, and throw something back, and how to handle adrenaline - all good things for real-world conflict.

- The main point of combatives is that you learn techniques for all stages of the fight. A viable sport fighting combination that would give you much the same effect would be boxing/muai thai + catch wrestling/judo/BJJ. I don't actually like 'MMA' gyms for this generally, as they tend to underemphasise standup work (as evidenced by the frankly horrendous striking ability of 90% of MMA fighters).

- Try to visualise scenarios, and how you will respond, when you are sitting at home or walking the dog. The point of this is twofold - it prepares you for handling that confrontation, but it also, perhaps more importantly, allows you to develop common principles for how you will handle aggression, and where your point of action will be.

- Related to the last point, every man must decide for himself where is point of action will be. Know that there are legal consequences for many actions you may reasonably want to take, and decide which consequences you can make peace with. (Example: I will not personally accept anyone getting in my face. Noone has any reason to be within 2 feet of me. I may step back or push them away, or I may lay them out, depending on the circumstances - but the important point is that once that 2ft barrier is breached, I am taking appropriate action).

- Again related to the above, you may wish to carry a weapon on you, legal or otherwise. You may prefer one risk (getting caught) to another (getting beaten/killed)

- Grow up. This applies to all of us to varying degrees. Don't let your ego get you hurt, or force you to make life altering decisions. Be polite, be kind, but be firm. If you can tread this line you will not find yourself faced with violence very often, and when you are it will make things that much simpler. It is much easier to defend yourself in court when any witnesses will tell the jury that you were polite, reasonable and tried to diffuse the situation. It plays much better with self-defense.

- Equally, have principles - know what you are willing to get hurt for. There is a difference between a guy acting up in a bar who has had a few too many drinks, and someone being deliberately aggressive and disrespectful. I'll walk away from the first guy, but the second guy is going to learn some manners in a hurry.

- Finally, accept that if you aren't willing to do whatever it takes to be the meanest dude in the fight, you're probably going to lose. All the skill in the world won't save you if you lack the resolve. There are guys who are great fighters in a ring who'd get their limbs pulled off them like the wings off flies by guys with very little sport fighting experience, but who have the capacity and determination to do extraordinary harm.

H1N1's last post upthread is great too.

In the end all that you can do is:
- Train (S&C, weapons, MA, sparring)
- Desensitize yourself to violence
- Condition yourself to act under pressure
- Establish your boundaries and what you are willing to do ("If under threat by myself, I'm willing to kill, I'm willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES"; "If under threat with my family, I'd rather escape with them safely than help others", etc). Tough, but necessary questions
- Pray you will not fold under stress (remember, even trained professinal soldiers occasionally freeze during battle)

The umcomfortable truth is that we all train to be able to defend ourselves and others (if circumstances allow) but we can't predict how we'll act with total accuracy.