Post: #1

I ran into this story from jdunderground.com: http://www.jdunderground.com/ot/thread.p...dId=109381

original link: http://www.thestranger.com/feature/2016/...e-audition

Quote:Six Women Say a Seattle Man Posed as a Female Porn Recruiter in Order to Lure Them to His Apartment for Sex. What Can the Law Do About It?
by Sydney Brownstone

First the women received a friend request. Then a message.

"heya!"

"ahoy!"

"oh hi!"

"hi hi hi!"

They didn't know the person adding them on Facebook. According to her Facebook profile, she was "Deja Stwalley," and her photo showed a youngish blonde woman in a blue romper. Stwalley claimed she was a recruiter for indie porn studios.

"i was just scoping your pics

they're hot!"

"Sorry for the blind add but you're super cute so I had to "


Stwalley joked that she loved cocks and money. That's why she got into the porn business. Stwalley told one woman she could make $450 an hour on a six- to eight-hour shoot. She told another that she could make between $2,000 and $3,000 a scene.

Stwalley's webcam was always broken, and she could never speak by phone. But she could always type. If the person Stwalley was chatting with seemed skeptical of the porn recruiter's legitimacy, Stwalley added that she got into this business to protect women from getting lured into sketchy situations.

"basically I try to help girls get into the porn industry without getting screwed over"

"there are scammers out there, but that's why I DO this. lol

one of my bestest friends got scammed and it was a shitty scene"

"I knew a few other girls with stories like that so me and my ex started doing this. the studios love it cuz now they don't have to

ha ha"

Liz Shearer was 20 years old when she met Stwalley online. Shearer's best friend had been approached by Stwalley and turned her offer down, but she recommended Shearer as someone who might be interested. "I'm really sex-positive, and I've always been really sex-positive, and I've always been really comfortable in my body expressing my sexuality," Shearer tells me. We're sitting on a piece of driftwood on a beach near Shearer's father's house more than a year after Shearer first made contact with Stwalley. Shearer, who recently moved back in with her family, pries open a pack of blue American Spirits. I can't read her expression behind her sunglasses, but she tells me she feels numb.

It was Shearer who first reached out to Stwalley in January of 2015. Shearer was working as a nanny in Bellingham. She needed the money. Stwalley told Shearer that she was a recruiter and it was her job to ferry women into the porn industry safely.

"I decided it was an opportunity I would be interested in," Shearer says. She stares straight ahead, watching a golden retriever romp in the salt water nearby. "And I asked her how I would go about getting an audition."

According to Shearer, Stwalley told her that she could audition with her ex-boyfriend, a photographer named Matt. Stwalley told Shearer that she would also have to have sex with Matt.

"To prove to production companies that having sex with someone I didn't know was something that I could handle," Shearer tells me.

Shearer had never done porn before. "And at the time, I agreed to it," she says. She had Matt come to her apartment in Bellingham, and later, after Stwalley told Shearer that she needed to reshoot, she says she met Matt at a hotel in Seattle.

"Obviously, if I had known what was going on," Shearer says now, "I wouldn't have."

Two years before Shearer met Matt, another woman had a similar experience. In 2013, Deja Stwalley friended 19-year-old Allysia Bishop on Facebook. Stwalley sold Bishop the same pitch she gave Shearer, and Bishop agreed to a shoot with Matt. Bishop says that after working out the details of the audition shoot with Stwalley, she took a cab to Matt's apartment on Capitol Hill.

"He had a little checklist of things I was comfortable doing in the future, like are you fine with bondage, are you fine with whatever," she tells me over the phone. Bishop also remembers Matt making vodka screwdrivers. "He checked a little checklist off and said fine, all right we'll take some pictures. All the while, I was drinking. He was just making me more drinks and more drinks."

Bishop says she drank so much that she nearly blacked out. And that's when she claims that Matt said they had to have sex. "He was like, 'Well, we have to have sex, because if we don't then how am I going to know you're for real and you'll actually be able to do this in the industry? So you have to prove to me you're not going to bail out.'"

Bishop says that she never would have had sex with Matt if she didn't think it was for the audition. She wasn't attracted to him. Bishop left Matt's apartment upset but didn't quite understand why. All she knew was that she felt violated.

That same day, Bishop slit her wrists in a bathtub.

The cuts weren't lethally deep, and Bishop says she tried to move on after that. "I kept in contact with the Deja profile because I was promised that people were seeing my portfolio and I was bound to get coverage or get a career eventually," Bishop says. Stwalley kept trying to get Bishop to another shoot with Matt. "And eventually, you know, I was like, 'I don't really know if I want to do photographs with Matt anymore.'"

Bishop never heard from any porn producers.

Bishop and Shearer are two of at least six women who say they've been solicited via Facebook by someone calling themselves Deja Stwalley. All six met online after one woman's account of her experience with Stwalley went viral on Facebook. Now, after sharing their stories with one another, they believe that the Deja Stwalley profile was fake.


Shearer and two others say they had sex with Stwalley's photographer because they thought they had to for a porn audition. In hindsight, they consider what happened to them sexual assault or fraud. But the justice system has a limited ability—or willingness—to prosecute cases where consent was obtained under false pretenses. Three of the women have gone to local police, but they don't feel they're being taken seriously.

"It makes me feel like they don't really care if he does it again," Shearer says.

Three months ago, Bishop shared her experience with Deja Stwalley and her photographer in a private Facebook group for Seattle's feminist community. The post caught the attention of Maisie (she asked that I not print her real name, saying she was concerned about an abusive ex), another member of the Facebook group. Something about the story struck Maisie as off. "I went to this Deja profile and I thought, 'This is bullshit,'" she says. "It really, really rubbed me the wrong way."

Maisie decided to do some sleuthing of her own. She befriended Deja Stwalley online and posed as someone who might be interested in shooting porn. Stwalley accepted Maisie's friend request and told her about the setup with her photographer. She gave Maisie a link to Matt's website as well as a photo of Matt. Stwalley told Maisie that she worked for a number of indie porn studios, including the production company Burning Angel.

Maisie asked for a talent release waiver to be e-mailed to her. Stwalley complied and e-mailed Maisie a waiver from the address [email protected] The release cited a talent agency: West Coast Talent, Inc., located at 233 South Sixth Street, Las Vegas, Nevada.

According to Jace Radke, senior public information officer for the City of Las Vegas, no business is licensed at that address and there are no businesses licensed in Las Vegas as West Coast Talent, Inc. A Google Maps photo of the address shows nothing but a decrepit former hotel.

The Stranger contacted Joanna Angel, the founder of Burning Angel, and she said that she had never heard of Stwalley. "For the record, we do not use any 'scouts,'" she added in an e-mail. "We have a model application on the website, occasionally we get referrals from friends of models we work with, or we deal with licensed talent agents. We do not hire/associate with any scouts anywhere."

Still in contact with Stwalley, Maisie asked if Matt could e-mail her about the shoot directly. He did.


When Maisie pulled up the source code from the two e-mail addresses—Stwalley's e-mail that had supposedly been sent from Las Vegas and Matt's e-mail sent from Seattle—she found that they used the same IP address near the University District.

Shearer, Bishop, and Maisie now believe that Stwalley doesn't exist and that the entire porn recruiter setup was a hoax orchestrated by Matt, the photographer women were asked to "audition" with in Seattle.

That photographer is local freelance tech journalist Matt Hickey.

Hickey, who has done freelance work for The Stranger, did not respond to multiple requests for comment on the specific allegations in this story. He said his lawyer advised him not to.

"I agree it's weird and also ridiculous, but I'm sorry to say that at this point I can't talk about anything specific, though I may in the future," Hickey wrote in an e-mail.

Stwalley's profile was deactivated shortly after the women began discussing it on Facebook, but they provided The Stranger with screenshots of their messages.

Shearer says she's not going to stay silent. "My goals here are justice for me and everyone else who has been victimized, and education so that women know the dangers of what's out there," Shearer says. "I want to make sure that this kind of thing doesn't happen to anyone else again."

Maisie later connected with three more women who said they had been contacted by Stwalley: Anna Bronk, another woman who says she had sex with Matt Hickey in order to audition for Stwalley in early 2016; Jessica Jacobson, a woman who was solicited by Stwalley but didn't bite; and Lyric Weiss, another woman who didn't accept Stwalley's offer to shoot photographs.

All three have screenshots of their chats with Stwalley, and all three believe Hickey posed as Stwalley online. Shearer, Bishop, and Bronk have also positively identified photos of Hickey as the person who allegedly had sex with them.

Two more pieces of evidence lend support to this theory.

In 2010, Hickey sent an e-mail to a friend using the [email protected] address. When the friend asked what was up with the strange address, Hickey replied: "Something I use for a client's website." This was the same e-mail address Stwalley used to message Maisie.

There is also at least one Deja Stwalley who does exist as a real person. She no longer goes by Stwalley—her last name is now Cook—but she went to middle school with Matt Hickey in Olympia. When The Stranger contacted her to ask if she knew anything about a Deja Stwalley who was a porn scout and worked with Hickey as a photographer, she said she knew nothing of the profile that contacted women online.

But Cook remembers Hickey clearly from her grade-school days: "He had a weirdo crush on me."

Cook later identified a photograph of Hickey. "Yes that is Matt," she wrote in an e-mail. About the profile, she said: "No that is not Deja - me. And no I don't think I recognize her. Kinda pissed she is using my name for this..."


Shearer, the young woman who "auditioned" for Hickey in Bellingham, filed a report with the Bellingham Police Department on May 18. Shearer says that the male officer she spoke to said her case would be difficult to prosecute as sexual assault, and Bellingham police also told her she'd have to wait six weeks for a copy of her own police report.

The Bellingham Police Department told The Stranger that detectives reviewed Shearer's case and the next step is a review with their prosecuting attorney.

Bishop, too, has now gone to the Seattle Police Department. I met her at a downtown bar on June 3, the day she filed the report. Two friends had joined her for moral support, and she sipped on a PBR as she recounted how it went. "[The detective] said everything that I'm telling him is really fucked up, but that there are no grounds for a sexual assault case," she said.

Bishop still has the vertical scars from the day she met Matt Hickey, but now they're less noticeable than the tattoo ink that surrounds them. On her thigh, she's inked a pair of lungs. "I'm upset about it," she told me.

Lyric Weiss contacted the Seattle Police Department about being solicited by Stwalley, but said she was turned away with a business card. Maisie has started corresponding with police to give them what information she can. The SPD told The Stranger that they've opened up multiple investigations into the matter, but have not arrested anyone.

Regardless of what police told them, both Bishop and Shearer say they consider what allegedly happened to them sexual assault.

"I think the worst part about it for me is that , if you look at a really cut-and-dried copy of the law, it could seem consensual," Shearer says. "But I had no background information about what was going on at the time."

It doesn't seem like Hickey considers the unmasking of Deja Stwalley to be a major legal threat. After getting hold of Hickey's cell phone number, I texted him to ask what he meant by calling the story "ridiculous."

"I mean how it's taken on a life of its own online, like a terrible game of telephone with no operator," Hickey wrote. "Like there are things people have sent me, things that others have written that are clearly, completely and ridiculously just plain made up. At some point it no longer matters what's true and what's not. Of course, I can't give you details, sorry."

I offered to meet with him in person in case he changed his mind about speaking before the story was published. "I appreciate that, but on the off-chance that this does become a legal problem i really can't. my lawyer is good so I'm heeding his advice. Thanks, though."

"You're not concerned that Shearer's filed a police report?" I asked.

"oh i am. I just can't talk about it."

Scammers frequently target sex workers. It happens so often, in fact, that Seattle-based sex worker, writer, and activist Maggie McNeill has a regular feature on her website documenting these sorts of scams.


I meet McNeill in her apartment, a space draped in rich, dark fabrics and large tapestries. It's very much a One Thousand and One Nights theme, but instead of Scheherazade telling a sociopathic Persian king a thousand stories to save herself and her sisters, McNeill taps away at a laptop with posts that reach sex workers across the world. McNeill scans her archives and pulls up a post from November 2010. According to the website Expose a Bro, one man allegedly created and maintained a blog supposedly written by a female sex worker. This man allegedly had three separate online personalities: twentysomething escort and sex work blogger "Alexa di Carlo," a sex blogger named "Caitlain" operating a sex education message board for teens, and "Matt," an escort client. "Alexa" vouched for "Matt" and encouraged other sex workers to see him and have rough sex with him. "Matt," in this case, was the creator of all three online personas.

In 2012, British newspaper the Independent outed military contractor and computer consultant Mark Lancaster for running a fake sugar-daddy website. His site, "Sponsorascholar.co.uk," required an undercover reporter to do a sex-based "practical assessment" with Lancaster in order to serve the website's fake clients. Lancaster was later convicted of "voyeurism" and "trafficking," but not of rape. He was jailed for 16 months.

Lancaster's scam was a good gamble, McNeill says. "It's tricking young girls who want to do sex work to whatever level—they may not want to do sex work in the sense that it's their dream career, but it's the best fit for them at the moment—and these men tricked them to get sex out of them. And they figure nobody's going to talk about it. So this Mark Lancaster dude, no doubt he figured nobody's going to go to the cops. These girls are going to feel too ashamed."

Sex-work scammers are rarely prosecuted for rape, and McNeill feels that they should be. "Consent obtained under false pretenses is not consent, and sex without consent is rape," McNeill says. "Because sex work is in the shadows, even when women do report, there's a tendency among the 'good people,' and that includes good women, to shame them—to say, 'You had it coming' or 'Sex work is rape anyway.'"

McNeill gives a classic example: clients who hand sex workers envelopes full of paper instead of cash. A sex worker's consent is contingent on one thing: getting paid. When that condition of consent is violated, the sex is nonconsensual.

There's at least one example of a scammer-rapist getting charged for rape in a place where sex work is decriminalized. In Australia's Australian Capital Territory state, where legislators have decriminalized sex work and sex workers register with the local government, Akis Emmanouel Livas pleaded guilty to his rape charge after handing a sex worker a sealed envelope with nothing but a folded paper bag inside. His victim gave a statement to the court about how violated she felt. Livas was imprisoned for eight months.


In Washington State, a charge of rape in the first degree requires "forcible compulsion," meaning that the rapist uses or threatens use of a deadly weapon, kidnaps his victim, breaks in, or inflicts serious physical injury. Lack of consent, which the state defines as "actual words or conduct indicating freely given agreement," enters the equation for rape only in the third degree.

Some states—including California, Tennessee, Alabama, and Michigan—actually have rape laws that criminalize consent obtained by trickery. In 2013, California closed a loophole in its rape-by-fraud law to add the condition of impersonation. The change was motivated by one case in which a man climbed into a woman's bed in the middle of the night, and the woman, thinking he was her boyfriend, had sex with him, only to discover when the lights went on that the man she had sex with wasn't her boyfriend.

But many people feel that some rape-by-fraud laws are a slippery slope. When a New Jersey state assemblyman introduced a bill that would have made it illegal to misrepresent oneself for the purpose of having sex, the bill met serious resistance.

"[This] law is so vague and wide-reaching that it's easy to see how pretty much everyone could be considered a rapist, because, as any quick perusing of OkCupid can tell you, representing yourself as someone you are not is a universal behavior," Amanda Marcotte wrote for Slate in 2014. "All of us are claiming we woke up like this, and we are all lying."

But a lie means something completely different in the context of sex work, says Las Vegas defense attorney and former municipal court judge Dayvid Figler.

"There's a difference between a lie and something material someone would rely on to give consent or not," Figler said. He gives an example: In an interpersonal relationship, a person might say, "You should sleep with me because I am the world's greatest lover and I guarantee you'll be satisfied." That may be relevant in the decision to have sex. But if the same person approaches a sex worker, that fact is likely irrelevant. "The sex worker gives consent only if there are reasonable representations that can be relied upon that this isn't anything but a business opportunity," he said.


In the case of Hickey's alleged deception, the women had sex with him only because they thought it was part of an audition process that would lead them to a porn career. Shearer, Bishop, and Bronk all followed up with the Deja Stwalley Facebook profile to see if they were getting any work as a result of their "auditions," and were all rattled to find out they were getting nothing. Now that the memories of her time with Hickey have resurfaced, Shearer has been getting panic attacks.

But Figler says that if a prosecutor wanted to seek justice for these women, that prosecutor could try the case as third-degree rape for violating consent. A prosecutor could try to convince a jury that misrepresentation of the material facts didn't allow for "freely" given consent. That same prosecutor could also look at Washington's laws on fraudulent misrepresentation of a business opportunity.

"I think that you would probably have on some level a tough case because there is this stigma attached: 'Oh, those stupid girls, they got what they deserved trying to get into a sleazy world,'" Figler says. "You're dealing with public opinion about this sort of thing. But [allegedly], they were essentially raped. Their consent was based on a false premise."

For Shearer, the idea that what happened to her wouldn't be considered sexual assault may be the most devastating part. She feels like the police aren't on her side, that they insinuated "my rape wasn't really a rape." She doesn't want to go through that experience again by reporting what happened to the Seattle police.

But that's not stopping her from speaking openly about it. Shearer and Bishop are also defying most journalistic conventions on alleged rape by allowing The Stranger to print their full names.

"I'm going to push this as far as I can," Shearer says. recommended

PIC:


TLDR; Guy plays porn star hopefuls to get free sex.

Post: #2

Excellent datasheet +1

Post: #3

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha









hahahahahahaahahaa

Post: #4

I was going to say "why have none of the guys on here tried this?" and then I am like "why am I thinking that none of the guys on here have tried this?"

This gives new meaning to online game. If he has an account on RVF, I'd rep him

Post: #5

Dude has no real game. The girls didn't like having sex with him, and required elaborate, time consuming deceptions, plus heavy alcohol to get them to fuck him.

He needs to get rid of his weasely, hipster vibe, and get to the gym.

Post: #6

Now they are calling him a rapist. Just crazy.

The word is officially meaningless now.

Post: #7

^
So....
If they had been paid money (all other matters being exactly the same at the time of intercourse), then it would all have been ok...?

Actions have consequences...

Post: #8

(06-11-2016 01:22 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Now they are calling him a rapist. Just crazy.

Perhaps not that crazy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_underco...ps_scandal

Post: #9

He could have headed these complaints off at the pass if he had paid these women a fee for the audition and said that was standard pay for girls who didn't make the cut.

The problem, I think, is that these women were willing to be whores but felt screwed (no pun intended) because they got no money out of it. From the article, emphasis mine:

"It's tricking young girls who want to do sex work to whatever level—they may not want to do sex work in the sense that it's their dream career, but it's the best fit for them at the moment—and these men tricked them to get sex out of them".

Paying them would have also kept them from attempting to press charges. By taking money for sex, these women would have been committing an act of prostitution (and he could have proven as much had he paid them with money orders). Therefore, the women would have been a lot less willing to go to the cops. What would they say? "I took money for sex and I now I regret it!" I don't think so.

While pay-for-play isn't ideal, you have to be realistic. He was auditioning would-be porn actresses, so he had to expect they were in it for the money. Also, if you're gonna pay for sex but don't want to deal with actual prostitutes, this is one way of getting around that, so I'll give him points for the idea.

Ponying up a few hundred bucks upfront is far preferable to going to trial and/or having your name spread all over the Web connected to a case like this.

Post: #10

(06-11-2016 01:30 AM)Mr. Accuride Wrote:  

(06-11-2016 01:22 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Now they are calling him a rapist. Just crazy.

Perhaps not that crazy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_underco...ps_scandal

No. It is crazy. This is not rape.

I'm not talking about whatever insane statutes or examples may exist, I'm talking about common sense.

He's guilty of not paying whores, nothing more.

In a sane world, anyway.

Whether or not it was good idea, the point is it's madness to imply this is anything close to justifying the use of the word "rape".

Post: #11

(06-11-2016 01:30 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  ^
So....
If they had been paid money (all other matters being exactly the same at the time of intercourse), then it would all have been ok...?

Actions have consequences...

Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean.

Post: #12

This isn't the best way to do this. In Seattle and that type of setting he is going to get the book thrown at him. I admit I stopped 3/4 the way through, but I have read enough. Matt ran sloppy game because he he was cheap. He left out the one factor that was in the middle of sex and goofy broke women.... $.

I've done this whole hustle before. In a post on RVF here I will try try to dig up I went into detail of my operation.

For me, first, I stressed professionalism. I also stressed the small/amateur scope of the operation. The "company" was not Bangbros, but we would offer $500 for a 3-4 shoot that was more than many would ever make in a day in whatever dead-end jobs they worked.

Next, I had the women get into contact with me. I just put up the ads and worded it cryptically so they knew what I was talking about. It wasn't a ad looking for "Adult porn stars/models", it was a ad looking for women who wanted to be part of a "revolution " that was going to look at "adult film in a new way". One of the hardest parts was writing the Ad. It had to sound just right for women as they can de-code words very well.

Once I got the right draft I just sit back and waited.

My inbox started to fill up with women messaging me. All needed a picture to be attached and that is how I would screen women. I had everyone from dancers, artists,MILFs, old hags, bartenders, "professionals"... one girl was a teacher I think, crackheads, actress/models, etc. Some hurting, some smoke shows. The hotties I would email back BUT. I would keep it in a very professional tone.

I would go into detail about the companies vision. The "team". They would sound interested then I would start to ask them if they have done adult film, and what they would be comfortable with. I would tell them bluntly the job would requires solo, or B/G scenes at minimium. All the details on the legal garbage etc.

A interview in person would be the first step.

Next would be a "test shoot". At a undisclosed location where photos and film takes would be created (this is where you get it).

The test shoots the women would be compensated for the time but not at market or quoted rates ($150-200).

The "Test shoot" was created to give me an out. I owned them nothing after the fact as the companies superiors could deal quickly if the content and look was good or bad. The women would get compensated for their time but it was a very blunt conversation that no future work may not stem from the "test shoot". On the opposite end the test shoot could lead to recurring films, shoots, possible travel, but that was out of my scope as management would decide on that in unity.

It got to the point where I was able to rationalize random women into fucking for local market p4p rates, if not less. For me then it did not seem like a prohibitive hustle to go forward with. The women were happy to be getting paid $200 for just a small window of work. Everyone was happy.

After the back and forth. Only a handful (6+) I would say were serious 100%. I chatted with 3 over the phone and meant to meet one for a "interview" over coffee. I don't remember if I actually did or not, I think we did meet and it went smooth.

So for me this was all rolling together but quickly I started to get over my head.

The toughest challenge was now to QUICKLY plan a fake shoot when I had next to no film/video skills. I learned I could rent video equipment for dirt cheap from the University so I was able to lock down a simple pro set-up for not even $75 bucks (this was before all the video equipment became small DSLR was enough but I needed big pro rig type lights to give the professional look and vibe)

Next. I needed a location very last minute and was not wanting to do a hotel to keep costs down. I was attempting to find gutted or "empty" locations I know I could work. I actually did find one, very last minute. I would never do this out of my own personal home. That does not look professional. The random location shows that it is a disconnect from typical places where sex happens (somebody apartment/home).

In the end the stress from the logistics made me bail on the plans. The women were all down who made it to that final step. But the stress of planning the "test shoots" was too great and I had to eject (remember this company was only in town for a short period of time.. so it gave me an out to end the interactions at any time. I was never viewed as being a local which could turn off some women from the idea of a shoot.. aka "what if he knows people I know")

But the lesson learned was that. ... If the price is right.... Women will do anything (I was able to bargain some sketchy girls down to $50 as me trolling to see how low I could go). A few girls thanked me during the process for making it so smooth and professional. The thing is that many dudes try this hustle but they are sloppy with it and only think of the quickest path towards sex. It is the middle parts the women mauls over. She will get blacked out drunk or high out of her mind for the sex no matter what (In my experiences from the swingers scene 95% of normal women can't have random sex sober/regular). But she won't "Feel" good about it unless those middle steps that these guys forget, are solid and sound.

This guy in the OPs story was sloppy from the start. Random friend additions on Facebook? LMAO. That shit does not work. The porn companies have the leverage. There are a million girls who would do porn for cash, why would they waste their time "recruiting" randoms. These porn companies have full inboxes each day of interested women who send in pics and email. They put in 0 time to "scout" for talent. I kept that mindset when email the girls back and forth. Always hinting that we were busy (only in Toronto for a short period to shoot), and that we had lots of interest and why should we pick "you" (her). It became like any other competition where the women had to validate themselves to me. It made the serious once whom were professional in their tone more easy to screen out.

Dudes with bad game usually make these bad steps in these hustles. For me when I attempted this I had my basic game in effect. I could present the situation advancement each time to know the lady was cool with it. Every step she had to reply back with show of interest. She could just not reply, or decline and the interaction was over. She gave the green light each step. When it got to the end even though I BS's saying we had women on our staff they did not care that a "test shoot" would be done with a man. Because weil.. how else does porn get made? As long as they were getting paid, they knew somebody would have to get laid. The ones who got nervous and wanted the female staff present I would just ignore and decline the offer. Still more than enough were still serious with just "one or two" staff present for the test shoot.

OP did not understand all the nuances of it all that come with game. You get a lot of tweaked out broads and raver/drug type girls who are quick to want to think about doing porn for a quick pay day. Those are the girls I avoided and went more towards students, artists, and dead-end actresses/models who I know were hurting for cash/work but also not tweaked out.

You can see the difference in my approach from OP person named Matt. It is like night and day. My set-up is a agreed upon "project" with my own personal tracks covers. Me and the OP would arrive at the same end point but I make it out with clean hands every single time.

Post: #13

(06-11-2016 01:56 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean.

As others have said. Had these whorish women been paid a certain sum, all would have been fine.
Their lust for money out did whatever 'morals' they may have.
Yet now they're salty because their whorish ways were used against them.

Post: #14

(06-11-2016 02:04 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

(06-11-2016 01:56 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean.

As others have said. Had these whorish women been paid a certain sum, all would have been fine.
Their lust for money out did whatever 'morals' they may have.
Yet now they're salty because their whorish ways were used against them.

Ah I see. Agreed.

Post: #15

(06-11-2016 01:58 AM)kosko Wrote:  This isn't the best way to do this. In Seattle and that type of setting he is going to get the book thrown at him. I admit I stopped 3/4 the way through, but I have read enough. Matt ran sloppy game because he he was cheap. He left out the one factor that was in the middle of sex and goofy broke women.... $.

I've done this whole hustle before. In a post on RVF here I will try try to dig up I went into detail of my operation.

For me, first, I stressed professionalism. I also stressed the small/amateur scope of the operation. The "company" was not Bangbros, but we would offer $500 for a 3-4 shoot that was more than many would ever make in a day in whatever dead-end jobs they worked.

Next, I had the women get into contact with me. I just put up the ads and worded it cryptically so they knew what I was talking about. It wasn't a ad looking for "Adult porn stars/models", it was a ad looking for women who wanted to be part of a "revolution " that was going to look at "adult film in a new way". One of the hardest parts was writing the Ad. It had to sound just right for women as they can de-code words very well.

Once I got the right draft I just sit back and waited.

My inbox started to fill up with women messaging me. All needed a picture to be attached and that is how I would screen women. I had everyone from dancers, artists,MILFs, old hags, bartenders, "professionals"... one girl was a teacher I think, crackheads, actress/models, etc. Some hurting, some smoke shows. The hotties I would email back BUT. I would keep it in a very professional tone.

I would go into detail about the companies vision. The "team". They would sound interested then I would start to ask them if they have done adult film, and what they would be comfortable with. I would tell them bluntly the job would requires solo, or B/G scenes at minimium. All the details on the legal garbage etc.

A interview in person would be the first step.

Next would be a "test shoot". At a undisclosed location where photos and film takes would be created (this is where you get it).

The test shoots the women would be compensated for the time but not at market or quoted rates ($150-200).

The "Test shoot" was created to give me an out. I owned them nothing after the fact as the companies superiors could deal quickly if the content and look was good or bad. The women would get compensated for their time but it was a very blunt conversation that no future work may not stem from the "test shoot". On the opposite end the test shoot could lead to recurring films, shoots, possible travel, but that was out of my scope as management would decide on that in unity.

It got to the point where I was able to rationalize random women into fucking for local market p4p rates, if not less. For me then it did not seem like a prohibitive hustle to go forward with. The women were happy to be getting paid $200 for just a small window of work. Everyone was happy.

After the back and forth. Only a handful (6+) I would say were serious 100%. I chatted with 3 over the phone and meant to meet one for a "interview" over coffee. I don't remember if I actually did or not, I think we did meet and it went smooth.

So for me this was all rolling together but quickly I started to get over my head.

The toughest challenge was now to QUICKLY plan a fake shoot when I had next to no film/video skills. I learned I could rent video equipment for dirt cheap from the University so I was able to lock down a simple pro set-up for not even $75 bucks (this was before all the video equipment became small DSLR was enough but I needed big pro rig type lights to give the professional look and vibe)

Next. I needed a location very last minute and was not wanting to do a hotel to keep costs down. I was attempting to find gutted or "empty" locations I know I could work. I actually did find one, very last minute. I would never do this out of my own personal home. That does not look professional. The random location shows that it is a disconnect from typical places where sex happens (somebody apartment/home).

In the end the stress from the logistics made me bail on the plans. The women were all down who made it to that final step. But the stress of planning the "test shoots" was too great and I had to eject (remember this company was only in town for a short period of time.. so it gave me an out to end the interactions at any time. I was never viewed as being a local which could turn off some women from the idea of a shoot.. aka "what if he knows people I know")

But the lesson learned was that. ... If the price is right.... Women will do anything (I was able to bargain some sketchy girls down to $50 as me trolling to see how low I could go). A few girls thanked me during the process for making it so smooth and professional. The thing is that many dudes try this hustle but they are sloppy with it and only think of the quickest path towards sex. It is the middle parts the women mauls over. She will get blacked out drunk or high out of her mind for the sex no matter what (In my experiences from the swingers scene 95% of normal women can't have random sex sober/regular). But she won't "Feel" good about it unless those middle steps that these guys forget, are solid and sound.

This guy in the OPs story was sloppy from the start. Random friend additions on Facebook? LMAO. That shit does not work. The porn companies have the leverage. There are a million girls who would do porn for cash, why would they waste their time "recruiting" randoms. These porn companies have full inboxes each day of interested women who send in pics and email. They put in 0 time to "scout" for talent. I kept that mindset when email the girls back and forth. Always hinting that we were busy (only in Toronto for a short period to shoot), and that we had lots of interest and why should we pick "you" (her). It became like any other competition where the women had to validate themselves to me. It made the serious once whom were professional in their tone more easy to screen out.

Dudes with bad game usually make these bad steps in these hustles. For me when I attempted this I had my basic game in effect. I could present the situation advancement each time to know the lady was cool with it. Every step she had to reply back with show of interest. She could just not reply, or decline and the interaction was over. She gave the green light each step. When it got to the end even though I BS's saying we had women on our staff they did not care that a "test shoot" would be done with a man. Because weil.. how else does porn get made? As long as they were getting paid, they knew somebody would have to get laid. The ones who got nervous and wanted the female staff present I would just ignore and decline the offer. Still more than enough were still serious with just "one or two" staff present for the test shoot.

OP did not understand all the nuances of it all that come with game. You get a lot of tweaked out broads and raver/drug type girls who are quick to want to think about doing porn for a quick pay day. Those are the girls I avoided and went more towards students, artists, and dead-end actresses/models who I know were hurting for cash/work but also not tweaked out.

You can see the difference in my approach from OP person named Matt. It is like night and day. My set-up is a agreed upon "project" with my own personal tracks covers. Me and the OP would arrive at the same end point but I make it out with clean hands every single time.

This is a great write-up. So great, in fact, that I think maybe this thread should be moved to the Private Lounge...

Post: #16

Right, he needed a burner phone, fake name, and a location to shoot that the girls couldn't track him to later. If he had been reading the SA thread then he could have gone without paying the girls and never been found out.

Post: #17

Women have played men with sex for thousands of years. So butt hurt. Get over it ladies.

But yeah this guy was sloppy and stupid, no game.

Post: #18

Quote:She wasn't attracted to him. Bishop left Matt's apartment upset but didn't quite understand why. All she knew was that she felt violated.

That same day, Bishop slit her wrists in a bathtub.

Wow. From sane, happy, modern, empowered woman to "slitting her wrists in the bathtub" in the same day. Whodathunk that this singular incident could have been the cause of all her troubles in life? Of course, we can safely rule out any mental issues leading her to sex work. As a sane, happy, modern, empowered woman she was only making inquiries into a legitimate and perfectly responsible new career choice.

Post: #19

(06-11-2016 01:54 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(06-11-2016 01:30 AM)Mr. Accuride Wrote:  

(06-11-2016 01:22 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Now they are calling him a rapist. Just crazy.

Perhaps not that crazy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_underco...ps_scandal

No. It is crazy. This is not rape.

I'm not talking about whatever insane statutes or examples may exist, I'm talking about common sense.

He's guilty of not paying whores, nothing more.

In a sane world, anyway.

Whether or not it was good idea, the point is it's madness to imply this is anything close to justifying the use of the word "rape".

What it is, is Fraud.

Post: #20

isn't there a porn site where this is the exact premise... "I tell her I'm a porn producer and this is an audition... only... I'm not a producer"

Post: #21

So El Mech's advice finally worked for Suits?

Post: #22

Having read Kosko's post, my thought is that it seems like an awful lot of work in order to get laid. If you're going to go to the trouble, you might as well hire a film student, make a real porn film and try to make bank off of it.

Post: #23

(06-11-2016 05:06 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Quote:She wasn't attracted to him. Bishop left Matt's apartment upset but didn't quite understand why. All she knew was that she felt violated.

That same day, Bishop slit her wrists in a bathtub.

Wow. From sane, happy, modern, empowered woman to "slitting her wrists in the bathtub" in the same day. Whodathunk that this singular incident could have been the cause of all her troubles in life? Of course, we can safely rule out any mental issues leading her to sex work. As a sane, happy, modern, empowered woman she was only making inquiries into a legitimate and perfectly responsible new career choice.

Its Seattle. I think one out of three people there is a barista, and one out of four kills them self.

Watch Janice Soprano sum it up when Tony asks her about suicide:




"Of course. I used to live in Seattle Tony." Go Seahawks.

Aloha!

Post: #24

The guy is both a very creative person and an idiot. He can invest all that time into the scam and fake personas, but can't use a VPN and a burner phone?

Speaking of which, I had no idea that you could see the email sender's IP address just from the HTTP page source. I've looked up plenty of mail-related pages this way and don't recall ever seeing an IP in there.

Also fantastic writeup by Kosko. Very educational.

Post: #25

(06-11-2016 01:58 AM)kosko Wrote:  snip

I'm a little confused at your recount of your fake porn-casting hustle. So did you ever get laid from it? Also, was part of this hustle that you were actually going to pay girls a few hundred bucks a pop to get laid on camera as an "audition fee"? That sounds awful.

You mention how the story in OP is fucked up, but to be fair...

The dude did get laid and he didn't pay a dime and all he had to do was make a fake FB profile posing as a girl and hit girls on FB he thought were cute.

Also, I posted an idea about this a while back but have never tried it out:

/thread-48591.html